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Quote from: RPGPundit;481594Gamers tend to get bored of the same game over time.

I'm spinning this off on a thread of its own, as this is relevant to my interests.

My group is usually 100% OK with something they know (AD&D 2e, D&D 3.5e, GURPS, CoC, oWoD) and they don't usually sweat over stuff that's close enough to their references that they can jump right into (any and all TSR-era D&D or retro-clone, BRP-based stuff, WFRP 2e, nWoD).

But deviations from the norm are anyone's guess. To my surprise, they loved Savage Worlds, but Mongoose Traveller got a mixed reception. Go figure.

The truth is, other than me and a couple of other hardcore types, most are fairly casual gamers. They don't frequent forums or game stores. They don't keep up with new releases. They'd be perfectly happy playing AD&D 2e and GURPS for the rest of their lives. But I dig new games, new systems, new ways of doing the same thing, sometimes with more flair, sometimes with more grit, sometimes just for the hell of it. I dig the "new book" smell (right up there with "new car" smell for me).

Their resistance is usually mild, but it's there. I may be particularly frustrated with their half-hearted attitude towards Traveller; it's certainly no insurmountable obstacle, but it might make them more hesitant to join a Traveller game (if the game's good enough they might end up joining, but only after a while).

Is this a thing in your group? Do you meet any sort of resistance when introducing new games? Do they jump at the chance of trying new games?

There isn't really any resistance to trying new games, but they'd have to bring something really unique (in a good way!) to keep their interest and make it worth everyone's while learning new tricks.

vile's experience matches mine.  my old group pretty much stuck with a few games (traveller, deadlands, WFRP 1e then 2e, millennium's end).  we had a short stint of earthdawn, but that didn't last.  same with shadowrun (1e i think).  

back in the 80s, ad&d was our fantasy game.  then i introduced WFRP, and that seemed to scratch that itch better for us.  while the earthdawn world was neat, the mechanics didn't click for us like warhammer, so ED just fell by the wayside.  the only time we returned to ad&d is when EGG died, and it was a one night one shot.

A game has got to have an incredible hook to get me to play it rather than AD&D (or OD&D) these days.  WHRFP did, so I snagged a 1e book and play it on occasion.  Otherwise, no.  I have limited amounts of time (no more 12 hour sessions on a Saturday) to game, so when I do I want to play the game I like.

My players are the opposite - total whores. And that's just when it comes to giving blow jobs.

No, I jest. My group will try anything and everything when it comes to systems. D&D of whatever edition, CoC, Traveller, GURPS, Gumshoe, Apocalypse World, CP:2020, Savage Worlds, you name it. And most of them are in their 40s, constituting "old gamers" in every sense of the word.

I should add I just don't get the weird inertia some people apparently have about system. Why not give it a go, whatever it is? If you don't like it fine, drop it and do something else.

The "time constraints" thing doesn't really persuade me. I'm a working adult with a family, I have limited time: my perspective is more that I want to try as much variety as possible in the limited time I have.

Quote from: The Butcher;481620Is this a thing in your group? Do you meet any sort of resistance when introducing new games? Do they jump at the chance of trying new games?

I have little interest in "new games" myself. I enjoy running my fantasy settings in what is basically house-ruled TSR D&D. I've enjoyed doing this since the mid-1970s. I guess I'm more into interesting my settings than new sets of rules. TSR-like D&D works great for fantasy games. The old Marvel Superheroes works great for superhero games. Traveller or WEG Star Wars work well for SF adventures. CoC works good for Horror. I know these games and can run them without effort so why not just use these rules? I want the rules to fade to the background, not to be the center of attention.

That said, I'm found most of the players in my groups over the years willing to try something new provided: a) they don't have to buy it; b) they don't have to learn the rules beyond what can be explained in 10-15 minutes; c) they can describe what their character does in real world terms and not worry about what mechanical rules he uses to do it; and d) the setting is both interesting and easy to get into; and e) its only a short break from one of my standard fantasy games.

Note that most of the players I've had over the years definitely fall into the "causal gamer" category because even if they are fanatic about their characters and the campaign most just aren't interested in games as games (the rules, charop, system mastery, etc.).

I've seen a lot of players who are only happy with certain games. I bring up games that are discussed regularly here and other forums, and get blank stares. Many people I know will only play: the latest edition of D&D, oWoD, or Call of Cthulhu (and that's only a few of them, others aren't interested). Anything else, they just aren't interested.

I participate in two"live" groups on a regular basis.

The "Pathfinder" group seems more keen on trying newer stuff though we have only talked about this briefly in regards to what may be on board after the "Crimson Throne" adventure path is over.

The "In Search of the Unknown OSR" group is focused on older editions/RetClone and anything non (A)D&D is limited to short run adventures. The group has mixed feelings regarding trying new (as in having never played, not just recent) stuff. Most stick to the ol' tried and trues, a few are interested in anything as players for the most, preferably with pre-gens supplied!


A mixed lot for sure...not much resistance to newer stuff just "Meh...D&D works for me so..." I think that the time required to learn a new system is a big turn off as one gets older as that is time with family etc.
I love to try new stuff and buy games often. Some get played others studied... :)

I am a complete hypocrite here.  Let me say this first.
I only play my own rulesets.  I have 2, my main one is a skil based % with a prety complicated chargen but that allows for very freeform and player-friendly development.  My other one is a simple d20 variant I use for a bronze age game.  

But this also means every single new player that comes down the pike has to be willing to deal with my systems, so I get to see players flex to learn my system with every new player.

My regular group are pretty open to try new games and given we tend to do short campaigns we switch system pretty often.

However the first impression really matters. If the first session of a new game doesn't go well it can be difficult to get them to try it again. And tends to hold true even if it wasn't necessarily the system's fault (bad scenario or just bad chemistry between the characters).  

It's one of the reasons I attach a lot of importance to the art work of a game. For that first session I really want the game to make a good first impression.

Quote from: The Butcher;481620Their resistance is usually mild, but it's there. I may be particularly frustrated with their half-hearted attitude towards Traveller; it's certainly no insurmountable obstacle, but it might make them more hesitant to join a Traveller game (if the game's good enough they might end up joining, but only after a while).

Is this a thing in your group? Do you meet any sort of resistance when introducing new games? Do they jump at the chance of trying new games?

As I am the only guy who runs games, and they happen to love my games, they are total whores and will gladly try anything I say is cool :D This far they have thrown themselves merrily over AH RQ, CoC, Mutants in Shadows, and 7th Sea, and everything's been joy.

I guess that it is going to be much not typical. i've met a lot of people who are really attached to the games they know well. I can understand it, it's great to get to deeply know a game and setting.

Most of the individuals I've played D&D with over the years, largely stick to D&D.  (This is also including the really flaky players too).  They have a lot of resistance to playing anything non-D&D.  With most of these individuals, I don't even bother asking anymore if they want to play something non-D&D.  (Not even an evening one-shot game).

In practice for most of these individuals, they simply don't want to make any further commitments.  They're highly resentful of anybody "intruding" in on their free time.  The "D&D-only" excuse they use, is basically an easy shorthand to signify "don't ask me to play in your game" or "fuck you, the answer is NO" or "No means No".


With all this being said, these days the only individuals I know who are willing to play non-D&D type stuff, are typically ones who buy a lot of rpg books.  These are individuals who spend around $50 to $100 (or more) per month on newly released rpg books.

Over the years I found out many of the players who use the "D&D-only" excuse, were frequently badgered constantly (or bullied) by stronger personality types to play in rpg games they didn't want to play in (when they were younger).

Not surprising for these individuals that the "D&D-only" label, is synonymous with signaling "fuck you, the answer is no" or "no means no".

I'll probably get tired of RQ/BRP soon. After all, I've only been playing it for 29 years.

I am extremely diverse when it comes to rpg's, board games, and miniature games.  

I will give every game the benefit of the doubt until I have played it a few times as a player and hosting it a few times as a DM, GM, CM, or whatever before I make a final determination whther or not its worthy of my attention from thereon.

What I will not do is look at games with a closed mind or a narrow view based on others peoples opinions who went into that game already with a negative perspective on it.

In other words, the sky is the limit...

Quote from: noisms;481630I should add I just don't get the weird inertia some people apparently have about system. Why not give it a go, whatever it is? If you don't like it fine, drop it and do something else.

The "time constraints" thing doesn't really persuade me. I'm a working adult with a family, I have limited time: my perspective is more that I want to try as much variety as possible in the limited time I have.

I often find it really hard understanding new games systems.  The rules-grokking part of my brain doesn't seem to work too well any more.  

Most recently I struggled with Savage Worlds; before that 4e D&D.  I've never been able to understand the starship combat system in any edition of Traveller.

I'm always impressed by people who can eg turn up to a 4e D&D game, never having played it before, create a complicated PC (any PHB PC except archer Ranger) with pencil & paper, and then run them effectively right away.

Quote from: The Butcher;481620Is this a thing in your group? Do you meet any sort of resistance when introducing new games? Do they jump at the chance of trying new games?

My former crew only had experience with TSR games and older versions of D&D. They played some Traveller but that's it. When I hooked up with them they were ready for something new so we played :

WFRP
Over the Edge
Dogs in the Vineyard
BESM
In Harms Way
Blood Games II
Sorceror
Castle Falkenstein
Fudge

Yeah, a few games. As I said they wanted something new and they were real system monkeys...is that the term. They could pull apart a set of rules and rebuild it.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;481761My former crew only had experience with TSR games and older versions of D&D. They played some Traveller but that's it. When I hooked up with them they were ready for something new so we played :

WFRP
Over the Edge
Dogs in the Vineyard
BESM
In Harms Way
Blood Games II
Sorceror
Castle Falkenstein
Fudge

Yeah, a few games. As I said they wanted something new and they were real system monkeys...is that the term. They could pull apart a set of rules and rebuild it.

Regards,
David R

the best systems make good toolkits.

I've got my comfortable favorites that I like to be playing... but as long as I'm getting that fix on a somewhat regular basis I'm happy to try anything.
Though I hate jumping from game to game without ever settling in for a longer run.
However, in our group I'm the odd-man-out for gaming tastes... they're all much bigger system-snobs than I am... and basically refuse to play anything I've suggested... so we've been playing the same two games for years.

I've never had this kind of problem.  My players don't really feel like they have to have a special attachment to a particular system.

RPGPundit

It depends to an extent on the investment demanded. The people with whom I play regularly don't have a lot interest in "game systems".

We recently had our first session of Twilight: 2000, but we didn't learn much more about the 'mechanics' except to toss a ten-sider when the GM called for it. That was hailed as a lot of fun.

A go at D&D 3e was very short lived, largely because of the slow pacing partly due to volume of rules the players were expected to learn. Champions got shot down (before I joined) partly because the genre did not appeal but partly also because of the seeming complexity of the rules set.