Does anyone have experience with BASH? I recently purchased it but haven't played it yet. I got it because it seems to offer much of the same flexibility as Champions. Any thoughts?

Quote from: Spike;942643Ok, so first: Champion's infamous 'Math' isn't nearly as scary as people make it out to be.  Did you graduate elementary school? Then you should be fine.

Look, Trump is president.  Clearly elementary school math is a problem for many grown Americans.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;942754Look, Trump is president.  Clearly elementary school math is a problem for many grown Americans.

JG

I doubt very many gamers are working in major news media, so I'm not sure I see your point.

Quote from: CanBeOnlyOne;942719Does anyone have experience with BASH? I recently purchased it but haven't played it yet. I got it because it seems to offer much of the same flexibility as Champions. Any thoughts?

It's a good game. I don't know if it is as flexible as Champions, but it's pretty close. It's been likened more to M&M, iirc.  But I've had fun both playing and running it in the past. The Awesome Powers line of supplements really makes the system shine, showcasing how you can take the core rules, and mod them to create various new powers.

Quote from: James Gillen;942754Look, Trump is president.  Clearly elementary school math is a problem for many grown Americans.

JG

Heh. Not on point, but my favorite crazy-ass thing so far (out of a whole buttload of crazy ass) is that he thinks he made the sun come out during rain at inauguration, then when he stopped speaking, it rained again (while eyewitnesses report that clearly, the opposite happened).

Quote from: Spike;942760I doubt very many gamers are working in major news media, so I'm not sure I see your point.

The amount of self-administered insulation from facts and truth is just as prevalent on this site as it throughout the country. Of course, we now live an age where you can have "alternative facts," so I guess it's all right.

Forget to respond to the BASH question. It's a flexible as any other system out there, plus the resolution system (exploding dice on doubles) allows you some over the top results, which I like quite a bit. It has a decent section on running different types of campaigns. But, again, another system I've never been able to get a group to commit to. I can't report actual play, outside of what others have posted.

Quote from: cranebump;942797The amount of self-administered insulation from facts and truth is just as prevalent on this site as it throughout the country. Of course, we now live an age where you can have "alternative facts," so I guess it's all right.

Oh. God.


You...you're asking me to explain the joke, aren't you?

Well... I won't. I just won't. It never, ever works. Robin Freaking Williams couldn't get away with explaining a joke, even in his coke days. You expect me, a lowly forum shitposter, to do better?

Nope. Not gonna happen. You'll just have to carry on in ignorance.

Quote from: Spike;942859Oh. God.


You...you're asking me to explain the joke, aren't you?

Well... I won't. I just won't. It never, ever works. Robin Freaking Williams couldn't get away with explaining a joke, even in his coke days. You expect me, a lowly forum shitposter, to do better?

Nope. Not gonna happen. You'll just have to carry on in ignorance.

Well, here's another asshole for the block list.

Quote from: cranebump;942868Well, here's another asshole for the block list.

I'll be here all week!

Quote from: Spike;942760I doubt very many gamers are working in major news media, so I'm not sure I see your point.

The point is that if you can't figure out that Trump would do for the country what he did for Atlantic City, you can't figure out Champions math.  And that seems to be the description of a lot of people.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;942911The point is that if you can't figure out that Trump would do for the country what he did for Atlantic City, you can't figure out Champions math.  And that seems to be the description of a lot of people.

JG

Oh... Oh God!

You...

You're asking me to explain the joke....

etc...
etc...
etc...


Sigh....

And Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning the election according to the news media polls on Election Night. The JOKE being that the media clearly can't do basic math, since they, and their own polls, were clearly not based in any mathematical basis.

Har. Fucking. Har.

See? They can't do basic math. So they shouldn't play Champions, right? That's the set up. The PUNCHLINE being... and this is where the actual HUMOR comes from... I know, I know.. you're waiting with baited breath... people in the news media DON'T PLAY RPGS!!!!


Isn't it SOOOOOO much funnier now that I've explained it?!!!!


But carry on with your partisan blinders.  I'll quote a lot of non-gamers I know on this. Nobody voted for Trump because they were sure he'd be a great president, they voted for Revenge!!!  

Trumpkins are Edmund Dantes, and Trump was their shady business deal to lure Danglars into his own doom.  

THe curious capstone being that the LIKE what he's done the first week in office.

Quote from: estar;942656I concur the math is just a bunch of multiplication done in the right order. However you are missing the fact that the Hero System has a huge shopping list of powers, enhancements and limitations.  That is a genuinely intimidating to people. Personally I recommend the Until Superpowers Database I and II they provide dozens of worked out example of super powers along with the exact breakdown of how they are built.

Once you mastered the system it is thing of wonder to use. The only problem I have is managing expectations. People come in wanting to be Superman of the 70s but wind up starting out like Superman of Action Comic #1 due to the fact they have only so many points to spend at first.

One players was a right royal pain in the ass about this. To the point where his best friend turn to him and says. "Look you are trying to play Batman as he is in the JLA, but really your character right now is Batman when he was in Year One. Just cut it out and focus on what you can do."



My technique is to sit down with the player and ask him to describe what his superhero is like. I stress that this is going to be a Year One version to manage expectations. Then I make up the character after working through the options with the player. It only a takes a few sessions before they get a hang of manipulating the powers mechanics and most start digging into the books to plan out how their character will grow. The combat system is elegantly designed so it easy to see how everything works in a fight.

By far my favorite superhero game.

I think the key with letting players build pastiche versions of famous characters is to stress that they are building rookie versions.  This is especially important if the group is new to HERO.  An experienced group & GM could probably handle experienced JLA level characters but there is a lot more going on at that level of play to keep everything balanced and manageable.

Quote from: Spike;942712I'd say that this is an issue with any superhero game. Until the players have sat through a few sessions, built a few characters in any given system, managing their expectations of power vs rules is going to be an issue.

More than an issue than other genres? I mean: if you had a new player who read a bunch of conan comicbooks and was playing in his first ever D&D game, doncha think it'd take him a little bit to manage his expectations?   I think its more Obvious, and that it will effect even experienced gamers. He'll I practically broke a GM at a con my first ever Champions game (way back in... 1989 or so? 1990?... before 1992, I'm sure), when he had pre-built street level characters for us all, low levels of power... and I decided dropping of a skyscraper was a better way 'down' then the alternatives. I've never seen a GM reroll damage dice so many times trying to kill me before, and failing.  My street level character may not have been 'powerful', but he could definitely take a fall. 2 body damage when it was all said and done, nobody bothered to count up the stun damage.  30 dice.

That power's database sounds like a good resource, but those are the sorts of supplements that make me feel like I wasted my money. I ENJOY building my own characters, playing with systems to see what I can do. NPCs? Sure, give me a book of prebuilts, but powers and stuff?  Only if there are actual NEW THINGS in it.

I agree that the USPD and Champions Powers books were rather bland to me as well. I probably learned more about HERO character design from Classic Enemies but that's not a good strategy for all players.  While the other books are a little bland they serve a good purpose by providing a common baseline starting point, especially for players used to dealing with 'shopping lists' in other systems.

HM

Quote from: Spike;942915Sigh....

And Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning the election according to the news media polls on Election Night. The JOKE being that the media clearly can't do basic math, since they, and their own polls, were clearly not based in any mathematical basis.

Har. Fucking. Har.

See? They can't do basic math. So they shouldn't play Champions, right? That's the set up. The PUNCHLINE being... and this is where the actual HUMOR comes from... I know, I know.. you're waiting with baited breath... people in the news media DON'T PLAY RPGS!!!!

The news media by and large didn't vote for Trump.  And tip, if you really have to explain the joke, maybe that's cause it wasn't funny.
The fact that the press are morons who can't read statistics isn't news.  After all the Democrats couldn't either.
But let's move on.
I was agreeing with you that the Hero System math isn't that hard.  It's just that there's a lot OF it.
I had said back when I was still on The Banning Place that "I have no respect for the argument that 'Hero System requires a Ph. D in Math."  I CAN respect the more nuanced argument, "I can do all this math, but I shouldn't have to."
Of course, even as I'm getting a little burned out on Hero, I still have that many more problems with everything else, especially the games other people keep telling me are better "cause they're not point-buy."

jg

Fuck the political talk in the RPG section.

That's what Pundency is for.

Wank it and spank it to your heart's content in RPGPundit's Own Forum.

[and yes, I gotta remember that too!]

I loved FASERIP as a kid but haven't played any superhero rpg since. Does FASERIP stand  up to use today?

I recently discovered that all the Marvel Superhero material is available free and legal on the fan site, I'm a bit surprised that Marvel is okay with their trademarked content being given away for free.