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Tabletop RPGs vs. video games: the former are 'better'

Started by elfandghost, November 10, 2013, 03:30:46 AM

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dragoner

#30
November 10, 2013, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706818Certainly it shows a lack of inspiration, not so much due to apathy but rather to the way we're actually all pretty happy doing what we do already.

On a broader level however I'm keenly aware that the hobby isn't going to get the coverage it deserves as long as it labours in the shadow of computer games calling themselves RPGs. I mean this stuff is a ton o'fun, I want more people to be aware of that.

Ergo, we need a new name.

But we also know our hobby well enough to know that a new name would meet a ton of resistance to a new name, as well as arguing about what the new name would be. As it was said in your other thread early on, is that "Tabletop" (as used on both Facebook and G+), is the differentiating name for better or worse.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

The Traveller

#31
November 10, 2013, 02:30:48 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;706821by the definition of "role-playing game", they very much are just that.  No one gives a fuck about your or mine personal tastes that change that definition.  It's like someone saying a Toyota Tacoma isn't a real truck because they prefer a full sized rig with a v8.  They clearly fit the definition, therefore they are
You're saying the vernacular has changed - I agree. This is why we need to new name, we need to rebrand the hobby.

Quote from: elfandghost;706822If I was making an tabletop RPG, or in charge of such a project I would make sure the name RPG was no where near it. Adventure Game or Character and Adventure Game for me.
It would be better if we had a larger industry consensus, which would of course benefit everyone. Other than a relatively incestuous online community and the larger D&D community, nobody wants to play v1.0. We need to communicate that it isn't an earlier version but rather a very different experience.

Quote from: dragoner;706824But we also know our hobby well enough to know that a new name would meet a ton of resistance to a new name, as well as arguing about what the new name would be. As it was said in your other thread early on, is that "Tabletop" (as used on both Facebook and G+), is the differentiating name for better or worse.
And yet the shared narrative gamers seem to have adopted "storygames" fairly successfully.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

dragoner

#32
November 10, 2013, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706825And yet the shared narrative gamers seem to have adopted "storygames" fairly successfully.

IIRC, 20+ years ago, when the whole deal was rather new-ish.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

Imp

#33
November 10, 2013, 02:41:36 PM
The reason CRPGs are called CRPGs is because there are two major facets that tabletop RPGs introduced to gaming in a thorough manner. The first is roleplaying, acting as a character in an imagined world. The second is advancement, gaining levels and gold and spells and magic items and so on. CRPGs picked up the second facet and ran with it.

This ship has sailed.

Omega

#34
November 10, 2013, 02:44:40 PM
Quote from: elfandghost;706796If some software developer ever got around to developing a true (as possible) role-play game where combat was a small part or the game, no one would by it. The only chance of actually selling a game like that would be by not calling it an RPG; is that not ironic?

People would go for a more conversation based CRPG. Dating sims do pretty well in some circles and those are just simple focused conversation CRPGs at their core.

Some of the interaction based RPGs tend to end up playing like a computer version of a pick your path book. And that is the main problem. A good interaction based game needs a good writer able to think in and keep track of branching paths.

Back to the G+ idea. Friend of mine has been urging to try OpenRPG. Still having a glance over it. I've also heard of people trying to use VASAL for TTRPGing but I know little of that system. Seems more geared to board gaming.

The Traveller

#35
November 10, 2013, 02:46:31 PM
Quote from: dragoner;706826IIRC, 20+ years ago, when the whole deal was rather new-ish.
The term only became current in 2004-2006, at least in the sense we know it today.

Quote from: Imp;706828The reason CRPGs are called CRPGs
They aren't. They're called RPGs.

Quote from: Imp;706828This ship has sailed.
Exactly my point.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Sacrosanct

#36
November 10, 2013, 02:49:03 PM
anyone want to guess when the first CRPG was created?  1974.  It's been that way since day 1
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

The Traveller

#37
November 10, 2013, 02:52:54 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;706833anyone want to guess when the first CRPG was created?  1974.  It's been that way since day 1
Even if that is the case, whether through revisionism or fact, it doesn't matter in the slightest. These are two different experiences, and need to be differentiated by title.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Shauncat

#38
November 10, 2013, 03:00:18 PM
I've been playing Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup a lot lately and I think it has a lot of the things that make OSR attractive. Out of depth encounters, magical items that are powerful due to provided utility rather being a DPS boost, and an overall emphasis on playing to the situation, rather than optimizing your character.

Characterizing video games under a single stereotype would be no more fair than characterizing all tabletop RPGs as being Synnibarr.

Omega

#39
November 10, 2013, 03:05:37 PM
Quote from: Raven;706812Can anyone identify this die?


Blurry d6.

Theres a whole dice game made of freaky art dice shapes like that.

Sacrosanct

#40
November 10, 2013, 03:09:14 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706834Even if that is the case, whether through revisionism or fact, it doesn't matter in the slightest. These are two different experiences, and need to be differentiated by title.

this I don't disagree with.  But crpgs are role-playing games, end stop.  Maybe something like TAG: tabletop adventure game.  Something easy to remember as an acronym would be important
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

elfandghost

#41
November 10, 2013, 03:14:43 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;706840this I don't disagree with.  But crpgs are role-playing games, end stop.  Maybe something like TAG: tabletop adventure game.  Something easy to remember as an acronym would be important

TAG over here (and I assume the same in any English speaking country) is a children's game played in playgrounds were you run up to people, touch them and run away; otherwise I'd be fine with TAG. :)
Mythras * Call of Cthulhu * OD&Dn

The Traveller

#42
November 10, 2013, 03:15:52 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;706840this I don't disagree with.  But crpgs are role-playing games, end stop.  
No, they aren't, and this next bit is crucial: as we define RPGs. They are computer games, something completely different, which have misappropriated the title RPG. That the amount of money they generate have allowed them to purchase the vernacular definition doesn't make the differences any less different.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;706840Maybe something like TAG: tabletop adventure game.  Something easy to remember as an acronym would be important
Yes, although I'd prefer something short and sweet rather than a weighty acronym.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

elfandghost

#43
November 10, 2013, 03:22:24 PM
Is it just me but doesn't TAG: Tabletop Adventure Game, or Character Adventure Game or just Adventure Game sound better than RPG anyway? Why was RPG even used in the first place; the former sounds much more descript and enticing.
Mythras * Call of Cthulhu * OD&Dn

Omega

#44
November 10, 2013, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;706833anyone want to guess when the first CRPG was created?  1974.  It's been that way since day 1

Was it really a RPG? Or was it a text adventure game or roguelike? Text adventure in some form may predate RPGs. Not sure when the first were coded?

One of the earliest CRPGs was dnd which is just a dungeoncrawl or proto roguelike in 75. I still have an old copy of DND/Telengard from 77 (Didnt get it till 82 as Telengard.)
FF came out in 87.
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