Hey, all,
I'm thinking of starting up an old-school, dungeon crawl style game. Megadungeon by a city, whoever shows plays, pick your character when you play, the whole nine yards.
The obvious choices for system are AD&D (1e) or B/X (Moldvay preferred). There's OD&D too, of course. These having xp for gp by default is definitely a plus.
Are there any other systems that would be worth checking out? I've considered DCC, but it might be slightly more gonzo than I'm really looking for.
I think AD&D'd be a good choice, or perhaps 5e?
On a bit of a sideline, since you want classic fantasy, but none the less a worthy observation I think for future reference - Shadowrun is actually really well - geared towards an open table, since it's mission - based.
Yeah, 1e and Moldvay are my top two contenders right now. I'm just wondering if there's something I've overlooked. Probably because I saw somebody post somewhere about Hackmaster :)
Quote from: robiswrong;826989Hey, all,
I'm thinking of starting up an old-school, dungeon crawl style game. Megadungeon by a city, whoever shows plays, pick your character when you play, the whole nine yards.
The obvious choices for system are AD&D (1e) or B/X (Moldvay preferred). There's OD&D too, of course. These having xp for gp by default is definitely a plus.
Are there any other systems that would be worth checking out? I've considered DCC, but it might be slightly more gonzo than I'm really looking for.
Adventurer Conqueror King System (ACKS). I'm currently running an open table using ACKS, set in Karameikos (Mystara). I'm making use of a lot of B/X, Basic, Expert, and AD&D modules, as well as some newer OSR material.
Based on B/X D&D, it's easy to run, fun in play, captures a lot of the prototypical OSR experiences at low level, as well as offering an interesting end-game at higher levels.
There are all the various clones like S&W.
Or better yet, there's the always overlooked Swordbearer from FGU.
I'd do this with Moldvay, for some very specific reasons. It is streamlined and easy to navigate in real time (looking up tables, rulings, etc.), it contains all the major elements of classic dungeon crawl gamesmanship (time management, torch management, etc.), it is scaled for 'hard mode' gaming (i.e., players can actually lose), and it isn't jammed up with a bunch of extra stuff that isn't very important to the dungeon crawl game (weapon vs. armor tables; a dozen classes and races; etc.).
A few questions.
What systems do you usually play and enjoy?
Does it have to be TSR D&D or an OSR variant thereof?
Would you rather have a TSR original, a streamlined retroclone that hews close to the originals with better editing and layout, or a derivative with some minor innovation?
All things being equal, would you rather have something similar to B/X or BECMI/RC, or something along the lines of AD&D 1e/2e?
What's your campaign like?
Quote from: robiswrong;826996Probably because I saw somebody post somewhere about Hackmaster :)
The only thing I would say about Hackmaster, is that if you want chargen to be a quick process, the rules don't naturally lend themselves to that.
I mean, sure, you could cut a ton of stuff out of chargen, but then it would basically be AD&D and not Hackmaster.
Streamlined is always good.
Probably closer to B/X than AD&D 1e.
Someone elsewhere suggested C&C... any thoughts?
If you're willing to go outside the D&D-family, then I'd recommend The Fantasy Trip family. Only problem is, the original is hard to come by. Legends of the Ancient World is a clone that might do the trick. Another clone is Heroes & Other Worlds, about which I know even less.
Found this matrix describing the differences: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ao2R0hLbRymSdEpfVjlnbDVFQ20wbzh6Y2pCcW1oY3c and based on a quick glance, H&OW looks like a good option, although you can look at LotAW first to get a taste. I had forgotten about Warrior & Wizard; might also be a good choice, being free.
What's best about TFT (et. al.)? Very well-structured rules, perhaps similar to D&D 3.x and higher in that respect, but without the exception-based "Feats" approach (for the most part; a few of the skills do allow special combat effects). Or it could also be described as GURPS but with a fantasy focus and without Advantages/Disadvantages, and very little points-crunching.
There's also some discussion on this site: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=715876
D&D is best, probably B/X, B/E or a clone thereof (LL, BFRPG etc) is best, better than 1e AD&D I think, because they are simpler, and more balanced, and much easier to have a new player turn up, create a character, and be playing in 5 minutes.
Quote from: Larsdangly;827004I'd do this with Moldvay, for some very specific reasons. It is streamlined and easy to navigate in real time (looking up tables, rulings, etc.), it contains all the major elements of classic dungeon crawl gamesmanship (time management, torch management, etc.), it is scaled for 'hard mode' gaming (i.e., players can actually lose), and it isn't jammed up with a bunch of extra stuff that isn't very important to the dungeon crawl game (weapon vs. armor tables; a dozen classes and races; etc.).
Ding!
To this list of very good reasons I will add:
- Accessibility. Drive Thru and D&D Classics have the rulebooks available cheap.
- Fast character generation. Only OD&D is faster to start playing and would be my first choice if soft copies of the game were available at a decent price.
Quote from: robiswrong;827019Streamlined is always good.
Probably closer to B/X than AD&D 1e.
Labyrinth Lord is pretty much streamlined B/X.
If you get the LL Advanced Edition Companion, you have AD&D 1e mounted on a B/X chassis (i.e. race and class, demons and Devils, etc. but with B/X subsystems instead of weapon speeds and weekly disease checks).
Swords & Wizardry Complete riffs off of OD&D but it's close enough to B/X that you can have fun with it too. It's also got a bigger roster of classes.
ACKS is B/X capped at level 14 with a few interesting houserules and very involved economics (aimed at a complex domain management endgame, but useful as worldbuilding guidelines too).
Quote from: robiswrong;827019Someone elsewhere suggested C&C... any thoughts?
I love me some C&C. If you want the feel of classic AD&D 1e with pared-down, unified mechanics instead of arcane subsystems, there's no better game IMHO. I'd just suggesting modifying the core resolution mechanic, as I've posted elsewhere:
Quote from: The Butcher;503852But the SIEGE mechanic as written does stick out like a sore thumb (e.g. the already quoted "cleric > thief at detecting traps"). Here's a simple fix I've been thinking of; I have yet to playest it, though, so take it with a grain of salt.
- Drop Primes.
- Drop suggested DCs. Use the DC table from D&D3.0e or 3.5e. Seriously.
- Add level to ALL saves and skill checks (not just class-relevant ones).
- Add +4 or maybe +5 to class-relevant skill checks.
Quote from: Arminius;827038If you're willing to go outside the D&D-family, then I'd recommend The Fantasy Trip family. Only problem is, the original is hard to come by. Legends of the Ancient World is a clone that might do the trick. Another clone is Heroes & Other Worlds, about which I know even less.
I have a soft sport for TFT, so I'll put these on the consideration list.
Quote from: The Butcher;827091Labyrinth Lord is pretty much streamlined B/X.
If you get the LL Advanced Edition Companion, you have AD&D 1e mounted on a B/X chassis (i.e. race and class, demons and Devils, etc. but with B/X subsystems instead of weapon speeds and weekly disease checks).
That sounds pretty good, and I think I own LL.
Quote from: The Butcher;827091ACKS is B/X capped at level 14 with a few interesting houserules and very involved economics (aimed at a complex domain management endgame, but useful as worldbuilding guidelines too).
Worth a check, but it's sounding a bit less like a frontrunner.
Quote from: The Butcher;827091I love me some C&C. If you want the feel of classic AD&D 1e with pared-down, unified mechanics instead of arcane subsystems, there's no better game IMHO. I'd just suggesting modifying the core resolution mechanic, as I've posted elsewhere:
That sounds pretty damn awesome, actually, so I've already bought it.
Thanks for the help, everyone. I figured this would be a good place for advice.
Quote from: robiswrong;827129That sounds pretty damn awesome, actually, so I've already bought it.
Thanks for the help, everyone. I figured this would be a good place for advice.
C&C is pretty neat. I think my favorite version was the white box they had.
Original Palladium Fantasy. Combat is more fun than any D&D version.
Quote from: Matt;827141Original Palladium Fantasy. Combat is more fun than any D&D version.
I think you meant the Palladium Role-Playing Game! As much as I love the game, I think for quick pick up and play, some of the other suggestions are better suited.
For very past play that's not B/X try Tunnels & Trolls (either the 7.5 edition or the 5.5 edition since the Deluxe edition is still in Kickstarter hell).