I'm working on a Sword and Sorcery world for a potential future campaign.
I've been looking for both naming ideas for countries that aren't too unpronounceable just yet. (That part is easy.)
I'm also looking for an alternate "monstrous" or inhuman race or two to place in the world. Apes are overdone, so are serpent folk. Despite me liking both as monstrous rulers of strange kingdoms.
However, I've been thinking of vulture-men, from an empire that fell from splendor due to its hubris, thus gluttonous scavengers that remain from the ancient gods-given curse.
Here is my rough map so far (it is layered and this is the compressed color layer, names are more visible on the "leather" version of the map.)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5137/airumelsmall.jpg)
A quick scan of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_country_name_etymologies suggests that country names often (though not always) come from very simple, very explicit phrases in some people's native language. Often very practical, like "Land of the XXX", or some basic description of the local geography.
So make place names non-English. They don't really need to be meaningful; just browse some maps and you'll be easily able to come up with "Nordic-sounding" or "Egyptian-sounding" place names.
With this in mind and according to my subjective tastes, I personally think some of the already existing names on your map are a bit... well, pretentious, in a very common Tolkien-knockoff high fantasy kind of way. I mean, unless the southern Arctic area is literally full of gravesites, it's quite unlikely that the native people would name it "Tombs of Ice"; they'd just call it "Icy land" or "Cold place" or somesuch, maybe in some non-English language.
Same thing with "Kingdom of the Striking Serpent". I'm willing to buy that some huge dragon has lived there since before humans, but the first settlers still wouldn't call it "Land of the Striking Serpent" - "Land of the Serpent" is much more economical, and thus more natural.
"Unnamed Sea" - not believable. If nothing else, the people living on its shores would call it "The Sea" or "Our Sea" (c.f. Mare Nostrum), and then their language's equivalent phrase would become the international name.
Quote from: Silverlion;378901I'm working on a Sword and Sorcery world for a potential future campaign.
I've been looking for both naming ideas for countries that aren't too unpronounceable just yet. (That part is easy.)
Once you decide on a "method" this should be easy. I refer you back to a thread I started (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=16823&highlight=place+names) asking what methods or conventions people used for fantasy place names. You posted there once or twice as well. Hope someone there had a suggestion you like.
QuoteI'm also looking for an alternate "monstrous" or inhuman race or two to place in the world. Apes are overdone, so are serpent folk. Despite me liking both as monstrous rulers of strange kingdoms.
I am assuming here (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're talking about alternative, dominant races competitive with humans? Is this in addition or as a replacement to traditional demihumans (elves, dwarfs, etc.)? What role do you want them to play in your world? I like your train of thought concerning vulture-like people as decadent/depraved scavengers. If you proceed with that idea, I'd clip their wings. Consider: Skeksis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeksis).
Quote from: Premier;378903maybe in some non-English language.
Same thing with "Kingdom of the Striking Serpent". I'm willing to buy that some huge dragon has lived there since before humans, but the first settlers still wouldn't call it "Land of the Striking Serpent" - "Land of the Serpent" is much more economical, and thus more natural.
"Unnamed Sea" - not believable. If nothing else, the people living on its shores would call it "The Sea" or "Our Sea" (c.f. Mare Nostrum), and then their language's equivalent phrase would become the international name.
Nice ideas, mostly the two are taken from their physical features (A common pattern in the real world.) The Striking Serpent is so named because of its peninsulas that look like a snake (Founded by pirates..)
The Tombs of Ice because both lots of people died there--and ancient monolithic tombs frozen in the geography exist, described by a few half mad survivors who followed strange lights to the tombs.
Quote from: winkingbishop;378908Once you decide on a "method" this should be easy. I refer you back to a thread I started (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=16823&highlight=place+names) asking what methods or conventions people used for fantasy place names. You posted there once or twice as well. Hope someone there had a suggestion you like.
I am assuming here (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're talking about alternative, dominant races competitive with humans? Is this in addition or as a replacement to traditional demihumans (elves, dwarfs, etc.)? What role do you want them to play in your world? I like your train of thought concerning vulture-like people as decadent/depraved scavengers. If you proceed with that idea, I'd clip their wings. Consider: Skeksis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeksis).
Not really "dominant", more like vestiges of another time struggling to survive in the harsh world. Often corrupt or evil. Since pretty much that's the role of most non-humans in S&S stories.
Fantasy worlds need more bug people. A culture of giant, sentient insects *shudder*. Insects have a dizzying variety of fascinating, horrifying (imo) life cycles and social structures that can be extrapolated into fascinating, horrifying cultures.
Also, you don't have to have "elephant-people" but a matriarchal culture adapted from elephant social structures could be pretty interesting. I read this about elephants once; they travel in bands, and sometimes one band will try to steal the daughter elephants from another band. I don't know if it's really true or not, so I won't stand behind it if someone corrects me, but the idea of a culture where a kind of adoption-by-kidnapping is an accepted practice is pretty intriguing.
Quote from: Silverlion;378901However, I've been thinking of vulture-men, from an empire that fell from splendor due to its hubris, thus gluttonous scavengers that remain from the ancient gods-given curse.
Very like the Nagpa from Mystara/OD&D (Dragon #172). I guess every good idea has been done any number of times by now, though. With anthropomorphs, I guess some animals get done more often due to their believability so the trick may be to make plausible a race that usually isn't very. Or maybe it comes down to coolness.
Quote from: Silverlion;378940Nice ideas, mostly the two are taken from their physical features (A common pattern in the real world.) The Striking Serpent is so named because of its peninsulas that look like a snake (Founded by pirates..)
Yeah, but would primitive people with their early navigational and mapmaking skills notice that? Look at some early maps of real Earth; if you can't read the writing, there's a chance you can't even figure out what part of what continent it is, let alone such fineries as the exact shape of an archipelago. I mean, would you recognise the highly distinctive shape of Italy on this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/TabulaRogeriana.jpg) if I hadn't just told you it's on there? Or even knowing that, for that matter.
Quote from: Premier;378974if I hadn't just told you it's on there? Or even knowing that, for that matter.
You'd be surprised what map makers marking coastlines DO notice.
Quote from: two_fishes;378951Fantasy worlds need more bug people. A culture of giant, sentient insects *shudder*. Insects have a dizzying variety of fascinating, horrifying (imo) life cycles and social structures that can be extrapolated into fascinating, horrifying cultures.
That's what I have in one of my campaign worlds. A variety of bugs - flying, swimming burrowing - who are all working together in some unknowable way to reclaim their world from the soft-bodied folk. Individually, they seem to lack intelligence, but they have a formidable hive mind. Their harbinger is a rain of purple pods which float on the wind, and are the seeds of a poisonous vegetation. If these thickets are left unchecked, they become impassable to humans, and nurseries for the expansion of the insectoids.
Quote from: two_fishes;378951Fantasy worlds need more bug people. A culture of giant, sentient insects *shudder*. Insects have a dizzying variety of fascinating, horrifying (imo) life cycles and social structures that can be extrapolated into fascinating, horrifying cultures.
"Have you ever heard of insect politics? Neither have I. Insects... don't have politics. They're very... brutal. No compassion, no compromise. We can't trust the insect." -- Seth Brundle,
The Fly
I usually name countries after real world cities that players aren't likely to have heard of before. If I'm making a country that is like France, I might name it Narbonne, or one based on Egypt "Abydos."
I have a hard time making up non-human societies... I might start off with batmen/frog men/guava women... but in the end I always seem to go with just making them strange human cultures.
That or I end up making the non-humans so alien that they would probably not be recognized as anything other than monstrous critters by the human groups.
Maybe I just have difficulty keeping the science fiction out of my fantasy...
Quote from: Cranewings;379017I usually name countries after real world cities that players aren't likely to have heard of before. If I'm making a country that is like France, I might name it Narbonne, or one based on Egypt "Abydos."
That's more or less what they did in the Mystara setting, and it works very well.
RPGpundit
Quote from: John Morrow;379015"Have you ever heard of insect politics? Neither have I. Insects... don't have politics. They're very... brutal. No compassion, no compromise. We can't trust the insect." -- Seth Brundle, The Fly
Yeah I love that bit of dialogue between the two characters. Also, this:
"If one could conclude as to the nature of the Creator from a study of creation, it would appear that God has an inordinate fondness for stars and beetles." --JBS Haldane
Quote from: Cranewings;379017I usually name countries after real world cities that players aren't likely to have heard of before. If I'm making a country that is like France, I might name it Narbonne, or one based on Egypt "Abydos."
I do the opposite: if I get an idea from Greek mythology I might use Celtic-derived names, or vice-versa.
Anyway, I used this (http://www.risusmonkey.com/p/rosetta-stone.html) to come up with part of the name for one of my places.
Quote from: Silverlion;378941Not really "dominant", more like vestiges of another time struggling to survive in the harsh world. Often corrupt or evil. Since pretty much that's the role of most non-humans in S&S stories.
Sometimes less is more. I've very successfully used an older "race" of humans to fill that niche in my campaign worlds. And I don't mean cultures, but distinctly differently human-like races. Their traits should be obvious to the casual observer and shout "vestigial." Along the lines of a human with gills for "Atlantean" or useless wings for an aerial empire. On one of my campaign worlds (where elves were very rare and divine beings) the decadent empire bred with dark elves and developed a very obvious dark purple hue to their flesh. It's something to think about if you want something in addition to your vulture folk.
QuoteI usually name countries after real world cities that players aren't likely to have heard of before. If I'm making a country that is like France, I might name it Narbonne, or one based on Egypt "Abydos."
I have done this too.
Another tactic I have used is to mentally note street and town names. Street names especially have a certain idiosyncrasy to a region. After I've collected a few, I base lesser holdings/towns/locales on that naming scheme. Even a trip along the highway can do this (but streets are better).
Also, don't ignore play on letters. I enjoy this method as well: Take a powerful, meaningful word and change a letter or two. Hopefully, the meaning of the word tickles something in the players' mind or subconscious without being too in-your-face. I once lived near a town called Elyria. Great name. I applied the name to magocracy named Alluria and it suddenly sounds mysterious, tempting (Alluring, if you will).
Quote from: RPGPundit;379063That's more or less what they did in the Mystara setting, and it works very well.
Ersatz-nations are a time-honored staple of world-building, going back to Robert E. Howard, who allegedly did it to release himself from any commitment to historical accuracy; and also because it allowed him to set Conan stories wherever he damn well pleased, e.g. ancient Egypt (Stygia) today and Medieval France (Aquilonia) tomorrow.
Mystara takes this concept and cranks it up to 11, with the faux-Arabs sharing borders with the ersatz-Romans to the South, the not-quite-Vikings to the North, and (IIRC) the goddamn elves to the West. Or is it the halflings? Anyway, you get the idea. There was also Glantri, the wackiest place in the world, a collection of principalties which included swashbuckling Spanish-speaking elves, militaristic magipunk Prussians, lich-ruled Scotland and clannish French wizards straight out of Clark Ashton Smith's Averoigne.
Of course, there's also the mashup option. The Birthright setting had the Anuire (Medieval England/France & Roman Empire); the Brecht (Medieval Netherlands/Germany & New World pirates); the Rurik (Danelaw Vikings & Native Americans); the Vos (Rus Vikings & Mongols/Tatars); and the Khinasi (just about every culture from Morocco to India).
And then of course, there are those settings which strive out to be a deliberate pastiche of a given epoch. The Old World (Warhammer Fantasy) and Legend (Dragon Warriors) are probably the chief offenders. This probably works best as an exercise on alternate history, e.g. "what would 8th C. Europe look like if Elves settled Great Britain circa 1000 BCE?" Incidentally, setting your game on an "alternate Earth" or "mythic Earth" works just as fine, up to and including "plausible deniabilty" (so you can tell the PC ranting about how there were no greatswords before the 14th C. to shut up).
This is all, of course, a huge digression. Sorry, I get often carried away on the subject of world-building. Do carry on.
No worries. I love world building....
Updated Map with the map maker from the Trade Guild leagues naming things as he sees fit. (Varies between "Made up because it makes sense to the description" to "people from there call it that..")
Still not finished:
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1628/airumelsmall2.jpg)
I'm pretty sure Vulture Men will be in, and I'm thinking of perhaps a few places filled with "demons." (Man-eating frogs for example..who may or may not be intelligent.)
Also now I'm looking for a game to use the world for: I could write one but I'd like to veer away from that much additional work. I've got Barbarians of Lemuria, Savage Worlds, three different books of Fate (Starblazers, Diaspora, Spirit of the Century...so I'm not buying another one...but they're easy to adapt.) I've also got an awesome game made by Mathew Slepin (The Fiendish Samsara) called Swords of Fortune/The Sword and Sorcery RPG, and its pretty sweet. (It's a bit more abstract and narrative, but it works well.) Now to decide which to use.
I'd have a hard time deciding between Savage Worlds or FATE.
Since you're explicitly not going to pick up LoA, SW might be an easier fit. Whipping up new races for SW is very simple.
Quote from: winkingbishop;379184Along the lines of a human with gills for "Atlantean" or useless wings for an aerial empire.
The latter especially if it's hinted that they're the origin of stories about angels.
Quote from: Silverlion;379217Updated Map with the map maker from the Trade Guild leagues naming things as he sees fit. (Varies between "Made up because it makes sense to the description" to "people from there call it that..")
Hey Silverlion,
I really like the map. For what it is worth, I like the second round of names. It is an aesthetic choice, but I kinda like the exotic tones like those of Clark Ashton Smith.
Quote from: Silverlion;379217I'm pretty sure Vulture Men will be in, and I'm thinking of perhaps a few places filled with "demons." (Man-eating frogs for example..who may or may not be intelligent.)
I like the Vulture Men, but as a point of aesthetics I always do my Sword & Sorcery with either humans only (the point being that human folly and venal self-interest are the things the PCs must struggle against), or with a hidden threat unfathomable to humanity...which is where the insect angle struck me as an interesting idea. I might be tempted to go with a race of insects that have a long (maybe as in thousands of years) gestation period. During the long gestation there are a small number of caretakers who care for and guard the eggs in vast underground chambers, but when the hatching comes millions of ravenous creatures swarm the surface and devour everything. Everything. And the cycle begins again.
Maybe the caretakers have some sort of intelligence (whereas the hatchlings are mindless murder machines) and have learned to manipulate the surface world through agents. Or they are not intelligent in any way that humanity can relate to, but there are deviant and half-mad humans who worship them in perverted cults.
In any case, I would run a campaign that started with some standard "hired to get valuable stuff from an underworld", whereupon the PCs might stumble across said cult. Then they might uncover evidence of the insectoids and the terrible threat they pose to the human world. Maybe the little murder machines won't emerge for centuries or even thousands of years, maybe they will come tomorrow. What will the PCs do?
Quote from: Silverlion;379217Also now I'm looking for a game to use the world for: I could write one but I'd like to veer away from that much additional work. I've got Barbarians of Lemuria, Savage Worlds, three different books of Fate (Starblazers, Diaspora, Spirit of the Century...so I'm not buying another one...but they're easy to adapt.) I've also got an awesome game made by Mathew Slepin (The Fiendish Samsara) called Swords of Fortune/The Sword and Sorcery RPG, and its pretty sweet. (It's a bit more abstract and narrative, but it works well.) Now to decide which to use.
Several good choices there. I would lean towards Barbarians of Lemuria or Starblazers myself from those choices, but I would probably use Swords & Wizardry or Zefers if I was running it myself. But that is entirely a personal choice.
TGA
In the setting I tried to avoid funny-sounding names, and many places ended up having names in common English (Landrest, Diablo's Point, etc), with the assumption that these were the common names of places in the common tongue. The exceptions were, to a minor degree, the Bowlands (which were based on Polish names), and the areas of the foreign Hong tribesmen and the monks of the Great Wheel religion.
I did likewise with races, ie. the Gorilla Kingdoms.
RPGPundit
Quote from: The Good Assyrian;379379Maybe the caretakers have some sort of intelligence (whereas the hatchlings are mindless murder machines) and have learned to manipulate the surface world through agents. Or they are not intelligent in any way that humanity can relate to, but there are deviant and half-mad humans who worship them in perverted cults.
In any case, I would run a campaign that started with some standard "hired to get valuable stuff from an underworld", whereupon the PCs might stumble across said cult. Then they might uncover evidence of the insectoids and the terrible threat they pose to the human world. Maybe the little murder machines won't emerge for centuries or even thousands of years, maybe they will come tomorrow. What will the PCs do?
Several good choices there. I would lean towards Barbarians of Lemuria or Starblazers myself from those choices, but I would probably use Swords & Wizardry or Zefers if I was running it myself. But that is entirely a personal choice.
TGA
I like the insect idea as a great threat. Although I'm tempted to do it as caretakers of destroyed eggs with nothing left to take care of---immortal and alien by products of a now deceased race. Some still trying to care for eggs by putting them back together, some less tragic--more monstrous. Trying to create new children...perhaps with preserved bodies of their ravenous kin in amber, and their caretakers turning human into worshiping slaves, slowly using them to hunt down dark sorcery that might let them return their kind to life, or transform humans into their "children." Perhaps conflicting ideals from the caretakers lead the human PC's into the conflict. A caretaker who sees the age of his race gone--trying desperately to stop the "mad" members of his kin. Of course that caretaker might have a single queen egg hidden away--waiting some point of perfection to open, and the other caretakers endanger her birth.