All right, this board needs some more threads that acutally deal with *roleplaying games*, instead of people's need to fight on the internet! :p
I have been tinkering with a vapourware game system for at least half a year now. I'm attempting to make a fairly wide-ranging system that can handle a large number of genres, from grim-and-gritty fantasy to superheroes.
My biggest stumbling block is supernatural powers. In my mind, pyrokinesis, a wizard casting a fireball, a dragon breathing fire, or a Street Fighter II character launching a fireball as a martial arts power could all be specific implementations of a general Fire Control power. The general power would spell out how fire can be controlled supernaturally. At the beginning of the powers section, there would be rules on how to make the powers fit each genre.
So I have, I think, a good grasp of what I want. What I don't have is any idea of how to get from A to C. (I feel like the underpants gnomes. Profit!) If anyone has any ideas, or games to point me at, I would greatly appreciate it. This is currently my biggest stumbling block. :)
In concept what you're descibing sounds like HERO System's approach to power building which is effect based at its core (energy blast does damage) with special effects (fire) and limits/advantages applied to make a specific power.
But from your posts I'm think HERO is too complex for your tastes. It may still be of worth as a idea farm however.
Also take a look at JAGS and Fuzion (scaled down HERO).
Quote from: gleichmanIn concept what you're descibing sounds like HERO System's approach to power building which is effect based at its core (energy blast does damage) with special effects (fire) and limits/advantages applied to make a specific power.
But from your posts I'm think HERO is too complex for your tastes. It may still be of worth as a idea farm however.
I will admit that all I have actually read is 1e Champions, but it was not to my liking at all. I have no idea how much things have changed since then, though. And Lisa Nadazdy is always trying to get me to try it. :)
I like the general sound of the idea -- especially since it goes even one step further back than I was (to the energy blast). Definitely sounds like an idea farm, though. :)
Quote from: gleichmanAlso take a look at JAGS and Fuzion (scaled down HERO).
I'm not familiar with JAGS and have only heard of Fuzion, but thanks for those suggestions, too. I'll have to look into them.
Quote from: CyberzombieI'm not familiar with JAGS and have only heard of Fuzion, but thanks for those suggestions, too. I'll have to look into them.
Fuzion was an sad attempt to make HERO appeal to those who couldn't handle it's mass of rules and or it's detail. It was a cross-breed with the same system used in another game line who's name escapes me at the moment. It does however what it does, a simple version of a cool concept.
JAGS is an attempt to do HERO/GURPS 'right'. Given that it started (and may still be) a freebie on the Internet, it's a remarkable work. The best game of the 'indie' movement IMO.
But I don't play it (sorry Marco) as I didn't fault HERO for the failings it had in Marco's eyes. I may revisit that with the next edition because Steve Long is an idiot. Or I may be lazy and hang with 5th edition forever.
I'll let Marco (who visits here) say if it kept effect based as a design vision- it's been too long for me to comment.
Quote from: gleichmanFuzion was an sad attempt to make HERO appeal to those who couldn't handle it's mass of rules and or it's detail. It was a cross-breed with the same system used in another game line who's name escapes me at the moment. It does however what it does, a simple version of a cool concept.
Interesting. It was never the mass of rules that got me on Champions -- it was the specific rules. :) That and I had minimal interest in playing superheroes at the time.
Quote from: gleichmanJAGS is an attempt to do HERO/GURPS 'right'. Given that it started (and may still be) a freebie on the Internet, it's a remarkable work. The best game of the 'indie' movement IMO.
But I don't play it (sorry Marco) as I didn't fault HERO for the failings it had in Marco's eyes. I may revisit that with the next edition because Steve Long is an idiot. Or I may be lazy and hang with 5th edition forever.
I'll let Marco (who visits here) say if it kept effect based as a design vision- it's been too long for me to comment.
Also very interesting. Amazing what you can find out when you stop just paying attention to d20. That's the best thing about this new incarnation of NKL -- we're escaping our D&D-centered past.
If it's still free, I'll have it printed out by tomorrow. If not, I'll search more and see if I want to get it.
Quote from: gleichmanFuzion was an sad attempt to make HERO appeal to those who couldn't handle it's mass of rules and or it's detail. It was a cross-breed with the same system used in another game line who's name escapes me at the moment. It does however what it does, a simple version of a cool concept.
R.Talsorian's Cyberpunk. It's own system was called Interlock, and the mix with HERO became Fuzion. My impression was that there wasn't much left of HERO in Fuzion.
Fuzion is free, and can be found for download somewhere...
Quote from: Dr_AvalancheR.Talsorian's Cyberpunk. It's own system was called Interlock, and the mix with HERO became Fuzion. My impression was that there wasn't much left of HERO in Fuzion.
Fuzion is free, and can be found for download somewhere...
I have a copy laying around somewhere. I don't know if Fuzion's free anymore, though - I seem to remember the site being taken down or something of that nature.
-O
CZ, I think you have a copy of EoM lying around somewhere. It should have some seed ideas for basic powers. :p
Quote from: obrynI have a copy laying around somewhere. I don't know if Fuzion's free anymore, though - I seem to remember the site being taken down or something of that nature.
-O
Hm..
*googles*
No, it's still available:
http://www.thefuze.com/download/fuzion.pdf
Now, my knowledge of various game systems is relatively sparse due to school eating my brain for most of the year. However, I've had a bizarre thought which may already be implemented somewhere.
Start with a very, very basic power. Say, "Blast". Blast does X damage in X range. At this level, it's pretty boring.
Then, you customize it. For every add-on (say, for each increase in damage), there's a penalty/limitation/component/something. So, if I'm a wizard in a fantasy setting, I tack on the "Fire" and "Throw" add-ons, which increase my damage and range but then I have to add the "Invocation" and "Spell Component" limitations, which means I have to say a magic word and have a pinch of ash. Or something. In a crazy kung-fu game, the "fire" add-on is called "Spiritual mojo" or whatever. You can actually call it whatever you want, based on the setting.
Quote from: CyberzombieAll right, this board needs some more threads that acutally deal with *roleplaying games*, instead of people's need to fight on the internet! :p
I have been tinkering with a vapourware game system for at least half a year now. I'm attempting to make a fairly wide-ranging system that can handle a large number of genres, from grim-and-gritty fantasy to superheroes.
My biggest stumbling block is supernatural powers. In my mind, pyrokinesis, a wizard casting a fireball, a dragon breathing fire, or a Street Fighter II character launching a fireball as a martial arts power could all be specific implementations of a general Fire Control power. The general power would spell out how fire can be controlled supernaturally. At the beginning of the powers section, there would be rules on how to make the powers fit each genre.
So I have, I think, a good grasp of what I want. What I don't have is any idea of how to get from A to C. (I feel like the underpants gnomes. Profit!) If anyone has any ideas, or games to point me at, I would greatly appreciate it. This is currently my biggest stumbling block. :)
Check out the True20 powers section...it's remarkably like what you're describing.
Quote from: CyberzombieAlso very interesting. Amazing what you can find out when you stop just paying attention to d20. That's the best thing about this new incarnation of NKL -- we're escaping our D&D-centered past.
Even within d20, you can find a nifty effect-based approach in Mutants & Masterminds.
Quote from: Lady LakiraThen, you customize it. For every add-on (say, for each increase in damage), there's a penalty/limitation/component/something. So, if I'm a wizard in a fantasy setting, I tack on the "Fire" and "Throw" add-ons, which increase my damage and range but then I have to add the "Invocation" and "Spell Component" limitations, which means I have to say a magic word and have a pinch of ash. Or something. In a crazy kung-fu game, the "fire" add-on is called "Spiritual mojo" or whatever. You can actually call it whatever you want, based on the setting.
Check out Big Eyes, Small Mouth. this is essentially how their system works for designing any kind of attack ability, from sci-fi weapons to magical powers or what have you. there is a list of different characteristics/effects which you combine to create the desired result. Your Fireball, for example, would look kinda like this. Weapon attack level 3 (15 damage), area effect, burning (ignites things for continuing damage), and Uses Energy (costs your character MPs to use). this could very easily represent anything mentioned, from a magic spell to a napalm gun or whatever.
Okay, M&M (which I have), True20 (which I will have), and BDSM (which I've thought about getting, but never did because I saw the disaster that was BDSM d20). Yet more things to look at.
Thanks, y'all! Any other ideas out there?
Quote from: CyberzombieThanks, y'all! Any other ideas out there?
Besides another recommendation for Fuzion, you might want to check out either CORPS or EABA (both by BTRC, both with generic power structures for such things). You can download the nutshell version of CORPS at the bottom of this page (http://www.btrc.net/html/suppmain.html) (it doesn't cover the powers section, but will give you an idea if the rule system might be to your liking).
Quote from: KnightskyBesides another recommendation for Fuzion, you might want to check out either CORPS or EABA (both by BTRC, both with generic power structures for such things). You can download the nutshell version of CORPS at the bottom of this page (http://www.btrc.net/html/suppmain.html) (it doesn't cover the powers section, but will give you an idea if the rule system might be to your liking).
The English and Spanish versions say that they are corrupted files, and the French and German versions are password protected. I'm not even going to try the other language versions. :)
I know you're not exactly a fan of ENWorld, but I've read many positive comments about this product...
E. N. Spellcraft - Elements of Magic (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&)
...and it's associated variants. I have not personally obtained these products because they are not True20, but others seem to like them.
Quote from: SigmundI know you're not exactly a fan of ENWorld, but I've read many positive comments about this product...
E. N. Spellcraft - Elements of Magic (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699&)
...and it's associated variants. I have not personally obtained these products because they are not True20, but others seem to like them.
It has been said that Cyberzombie wrote the first Elements of Magic.
It has also been said there were harsh words between Cyberzombie and Nock, who wrote the revised. They have said that Cyberzombie received unfair small credit.
If these are true, the Cyberzombie must wish to go beyond Elements of Magic. Please know my intent is not rude, but to inform.
I am sorry that I have no additional ideas. M&M, that you already have, is my favorite. Is it what you want? Will you go beyond that too?
Quote from: CyberzombieThe English and Spanish versions say that they are corrupted files, and the French and German versions are password protected. I'm not even going to try the other language versions. :)
Hmm... I've emailed Greg, so that he can look into it and hopefully restore the file. Unfortunately I don't seem to have the nutshell version on my computer at the moment, or I would try to upload it as an attachment here.
Quote from: Cowardly LeechIf these are true, the Cyberzombie must wish to go beyond Elements of Magic. Please know my intent is not rude, but to inform.
Leech is correct -- I will not be using anything from Elements of Magic, especially not the revised version. :p
Knightsky: Thanks. :)
Quote from: Cowardly LeechIt has been said that Cyberzombie wrote the first Elements of Magic.
It has also been said there were harsh words between Cyberzombie and Nock, who wrote the revised. They have said that Cyberzombie received unfair small credit.
If these are true, the Cyberzombie must wish to go beyond Elements of Magic. Please know my intent is not rude, but to inform.
I am sorry that I have no additional ideas. M&M, that you already have, is my favorite. Is it what you want? Will you go beyond that too?
My apology for bringing up this sore subject then. I say we blanket-party the bastard. Just think of Mahna Mahna and you will be happy again.
Now I'm glad I never used the product.
Quote from: SigmundMy apology for bringing up this sore subject then. I say we blanket-party the bastard. Just think of Mahna Mahna and you will be happy again.
Now I'm glad I never used the product.
Water under the bridge. Nock and I reached a truce and agreed never to interact again about six months ago.
I don't care if someone else uses the damn thing. I'm just not going to. :)
Quote from: CyberzombieThe English and Spanish versions say that they are corrupted files, and the French and German versions are password protected. I'm not even going to try the other language versions. :)
Okay, Greg has re-loaded the nutshell files, so you shouldn't have any problems downloading them (he makes no promises that there aren't any problems with some of the other files on the site, but the CORPS nutshell files should download okay).
Quote from: CyberzombieWater under the bridge. Nock and I reached a truce and agreed never to interact again about six months ago.
I don't care if someone else uses the damn thing. I'm just not going to. :)
Does that mean we can't blanket-party the bastard? Oh well.
Quote from: SigmundDoes that mean we can't blanket-party the bastard? Oh well.
:heh:
Knightsky: thanks! :win:
Quote from: CyberzombieWater under the bridge. Nock and I reached a truce and agreed never to interact again about six months ago.
I don't care if someone else uses the damn thing. I'm just not going to. :)
It is too bad. I've seen good from both of you. Few will remember in twenty years what caused the problem, only that there was the problem. :(
May I ask what M&M 2e does not do that you need? Maybe I can still help.
Well, I don't own M&M 2e -- just 1e -- so I can't say for sure how it works at all. :)
I may end up going with something like M&M, or like the Psychic's Handbook (which uses feats and skills for supernatural powers). At this point, though, I'm trying to get as many different ideas as possible.
The essentials of what I want: each supernatural ability would be its own skill. Some systems do that to reduce the number of abilities each person has, but my reason for doing it is so that each character can be good at some things and bad at others. For example, a mage-type character might be good at using fire, but only so-so at healing.
I want the basic powers to be broad, but have built-in rules to customize them down to fit the genre. In fantasy, they would be restricted to spellcasting; in a modern game, they might be restricted by the "rules" of psionics to be subtler, less flashy powers. I don't want a system where this is a later add-on; I want it to be part of the initial design.
If you need more clarification than that, I'll be happy to provide it. :)