Do you like settings that feature, as some kind of super mcguffin, a resource or fuel that seems to apply to a multitude of disciplines?
For example, Deadlands has Ghost Rock that can do almost anything (and drive people insane - genius).
Are there any historical precedents for resources that can do a ton of ways - or even good fictional precedents? Spice Melange is fundamental to Dune, but I don't think it can do anything other than help you drive through space without crashing into things.
Quote from: Biscuitician;981267Do you like settings that feature, as some kind of super mcguffin, a resource or fuel that seems to apply to a multitude of disciplines?
For example, Deadlands has Ghost Rock that can do almost anything (and drive people insane - genius).
Are there any historical precedents for resources that can do a ton of ways - or even good fictional precedents? Spice Melange is fundamental to Dune, but I don't think it can do anything other than help you drive through space without crashing into things.
Well spice also extended life, but even just the space travelling thing was extremely important for Dune's galactic society as it enabled trade and commerce between planets.
In general I do not like such things in my games. If something is so valuable and useful the stories will always revolve around it. I find that boring.
What, like magic?
All these super-fuels, like ghost rock, or spice, or gundanium, or souls, or blood vials or whatever are just magic. Distilled essence of plot device. They exist to justify whatever fantasy story we are trying to tell.
Quote from: Cave Bear;981269What, like magic?
All these super-fuels, like ghost rock, or spice, or gundanium, or souls, or blood vials or whatever are just magic. Distilled essence of plot device. They exist to justify whatever fantasy story we are trying to tell.
Except... Not.
Magic in most games is a tool or a power. It isnt a resource you mine from the ground. Its not something thats hoarded in a vault.
Try again please.
Yeah, I'm quite keen on them if they are done right. It definitely allows you to make that element of fantasy (very much needed in sci-fi, Warp drives, etc.).
Quote from: Biscuitician;981267Are there any historical precedents for resources that can do a ton of ways - or even good fictional precedents? Spice Melange is fundamental to Dune, but I don't think it can do anything other than help you drive through space without crashing into things.
Petroleum
Among other things
1)Feedstock for plastic
2)Feedstock for useful chemicals including medicines
3)Lubricant
4)Of course a variety of fuels that have small but important difference.
Quote from: Biscuitician;981267Do you like settings that feature, as some kind of super mcguffin, a resource or fuel that seems to apply to a multitude of disciplines?
For example, Deadlands has Ghost Rock that can do almost anything (and drive people insane - genius).
No. Ghost Rock sounds incredibly unlike anything I'd ever want in a Western game.
Deadlands is a horror game based in a the old west.
It depends, but as described, it sounds a bit overdone, implausible, and like something the designer thinks needs to be exaggerated to create interest. I prefer it when the designers / GM / players get interested in less artificial things, and in things that are common, everywhere, different, etc., like combat, human interaction, situations, clever antics, etc.
Quote from: Biscuitician;981302Deadlands is a horror game based in a the old west.
What does ghost rock allow the game to do that using gold in the same role (perhaps with gold lust driving people insane) not allow?
Quote from: Biscuitician;981302Deadlands is a horror game based in a the old west.
Yeah, so? Like I said, Ghost Rock sounds incredibly unlike anything I'd ever want in a Western game.
Quote from: Dumarest;981359Yeah, so? Like I said, Ghost Rock sounds incredibly unlike anything I'd ever want in a Western game.
So its not simply a western game. You don't like it? Happy days, so what's that got to do with anything?
People spend way too much time on what they don't like on this site.
I remember Deadlands being a funky setting but if you can remind me what ghost rock did, was used for a bit more maybe I can think of some other examples .
Do Khyber crystals in Eberron count?
Quote from: Skarg;981304It depends, but as described, it sounds a bit overdone, implausible...
Implausible? Overdone? In a horror game?
You're right we need a CoC game where at the end they rip off Cthulhu's mask and it is Mr. Wilkers from the gas station: 'And I would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for you kids!'
Quote from: Omega;981272Except... Not.
Magic in most games is a tool or a power. It isnt a resource you mine from the ground. Its not something thats hoarded in a vault.
Try again please.
Magic in most games is tied to resource management. D&D, with its spell slots. Other games with mana points.
It isn't a resource you mine from the ground, but it is a resource that you mine from books or mana elixers.
Ghost Rock also drives the meta plot... Which I won't go into as it would contain spoilers. Granted, it's a little over the top but that is cool and works within the context of the Deadlands setting.
If anyone is considering giving Deadlands a go I'd highly recommend it. It's a lot of fun and is a damn horrific setting.
Quote from: Biscuitician;981267Do you like settings that feature, as some kind of super mcguffin, a resource or fuel that seems to apply to a multitude of disciplines?
No, because it is a sign of a lazy creator.
Quote from: jeff37923;981452No, because it is a sign of a lazy creator.
How the hell do you justify that statement?
The presence of a setting element is just flavour. By your logic if you have a knightly order your a lazy creator.
Brandon Sanderson must be one of the laziest authors around having these different magic systems.
For myself, I kinda like it in sci-fi. It provides a mechanism/explanation for getting on the freight ship and travelling to other planets and it's not completely wacky in the sense that one could imagine finding some substance out there in the cosmos that works like oil does on earth.
Quote from: HorusArisen;981453How the hell do you justify that statement?
The presence of a setting element is just flavour. By your logic if you have a knightly order your a lazy creator.
Brandon Sanderson must be one of the laziest authors around having these different magic systems.
He might be focusing on the "seems to apply to a multitude of disciplines" part. We've all seen the weekly fantasy sci-fi serial where the special items that the heroes focus on (dilithium crystals, in Smallville, the kryptonite; for transformers, energon; in X-files, the black goo; In Lost, the... everything) just happens to do whatever the writers need it to do this week.
Note that I have no idea if it applies in this scenario, but it is a legitimate complaint in general.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;981480He might be focusing on the "seems to apply to a multitude of disciplines" part. We've all seen the weekly fantasy sci-fi serial where the special items that the heroes focus on (dilithium crystals, in Smallville, the kryptonite; for transformers, energon; in X-files, the black goo; In Lost, the... everything) just happens to do whatever the writers need it to do this week.
Note that I have no idea if it applies in this scenario, but it is a legitimate complaint in general.
Not so much the case with Deadlands or Eberron. I can see the Smallville point though
My current in-process game focuses on a scarce material that powers a lot of the society. Obviously I see nothing intrinsically wrong with it. It's all in the implementation, in my opinion.
Quote from: Willie the Duck;981311What does ghost rock allow the game to do that using gold in the same role (perhaps with gold lust driving people insane) not allow?
Fantasy escapism, Magic, Horror and Gonzo.
To name a few.
I'm thinking of a setting with rare and valuble Gensing roots being sought. They don't have to do anything but be a mugiffin. I would like them to do something nebulously pleasent and mystical though.
Quote from: Biscuitician;981426So its not simply a western game. You don't like it? Happy days, so what's that got to do with anything?
Don't ask questions if you can't handle people disagreeing with you.
Somehow, while attempting to edit and add to my post from yesterday, I inadvertently deleted it! D'oh! Apologies!
My latest project uses a rare and extremely useful material upon which all the star-faring civilization depends. It was in fact named Macguffinite until we figured out what it actually was. So I obviously feel using such a device is fine. IMO, it's all about the execution.
-clash
Ghost rock is a variant of coal. It burns exceptionally hot, and semi-magically allows steam engines to put out more power and allows for some miniaturization. Steel made in ghost rock powered foundries is stronger as well.
Utilizing this fuel, you can have small, 1-2 cu.ft. steam engines, or high tensile strength springs, to power weird science inventions. Due to it's utility, it is highly valuable.
Why do PCs care? They need ghost rock to fuel their weird science inventions, can sell it for pocket change (like the cheap gems in D&D), and a couple of other things I don't remember at the moment. I don't think that the hucksters (magicians) use ghost rock at all.
Quote from: jeff37923;981452No, because it is a sign of a lazy creator.
Quote from: HorusArisen;981453How the hell do you justify that statement?
I think he just rolled an 8 on the rpgsite post generation table. It's right between #7 "I'm not wasting my money on that when I've already got (game published in 1d6+1973)" and #9 "I'm not wasting my money on a game full of (Roll 1d3: 1 PC, 2 SJW, 3 political) crap".
Not every entry on the table is about spending money. #3, for example, is "players today just don't have any imagination and might as well just play a (roll a d4: 1 video, 2 board, 3 card, 4 coin-flipping) game!"
Quote from: estar;981276Petroleum
Among other things
1)Feedstock for plastic
2)Feedstock for useful chemicals including medicines
3)Lubricant
4)Of course a variety of fuels that have small but important difference.
You can also include:
Platinum, Gold, silver, and copper which have material value for their appearance, as well as electrical conductivity, and some medical value. Platinum has some chemical reactivity (used in catalytic converters to reduce emissions in combustion engines), gold can be flattened to the point of transparency and used to reduce solar radiation and light transmission on spacecraft windows and astronauts visors, and silver of course is useful in bullet form if you have a lycanthrope problem. :)
Similarly diamonds and some other precious stones have value in industrial processes in addition to their worth as pretty rocks.
Uranium and plutonium have a variety of uses beyond making big bombs.
I'm not familiar enough with Deadlands to speak to the uses of Ghost Rock, but it just sounds like a high quality coal, that happens to have some mystical properties.
I can't really think of any fantasy / sci-fi materials that are obnoxiously useful beyond that of some real world materials.
On a tangent to this, I have a friend who's into D&D and he was looking for "something new".
I suggested having one faction in the world discover a powerful new explosive that allowed for cannons, explosive shells, grenade like weapons, etc.
One of the ingredients in this alchemical mix was extracted from dragon droppings. Just like an ingredient in black powder can be extracted from manure.
He used it.
Quote from: jeff37923;981452No, because it is a sign of a lazy creator.
Quote from: HorusArisen;981453How the hell do you justify that statement?
Go look up the definition of the word "MacGuffinite".
Christ, I should be charging you fucks for the education I'm giving you for free.
Quote from: jeff37923;981452No, because it is a sign of a lazy creator.
Quote from: Tic Tac;982154I think he just rolled an 8 on the rpgsite post generation table. It's right between #7 "I'm not wasting my money on that when I've already got (game published in 1d6+1973)" and #9 "I'm not wasting my money on a game full of (Roll 1d3: 1 PC, 2 SJW, 3 political) crap".
Not every entry on the table is about spending money. #3, for example, is "players today just don't have any imagination and might as well just play a (roll a d4: 1 video, 2 board, 3 card, 4 coin-flipping) game!"
Or he just treated a stupid statement as a stupid statement. I don't have the patience to use the reaction tables you think I do.
The forum will not accept your name in quotes, so from now on you are hereby nicknamed Tic Tac.
Quote from: jeff37923;982571Go look up the definition of the word "MacGuffinite".
Christ, I should be charging you fucks for the education I'm giving you for free.
Good you can use it for your procedure to remove that attitude from your anus.
Background flavour is not =/= to a macguffin.
Ghost Rock, Khyber Shards are a conceit of the setting (again backdrop) that allow other set pieces to exist such as airships or super trains.
None of these are required for a plot to move forward in and of themselves.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982579Good you can use it for your procedure to remove that attitude from your anus.
Background flavour is not =/= to a macguffin.
Ghost Rock, Khyber Shards are a conceit of the setting (again backdrop) that allow other set pieces to exist such as airships or super trains.
None of these are required for a plot to move forward in and of themselves.
This is where reading comprehension comes into play.....
Did I say "macguffin" like the voices in head claim or did I say "MacGuffinite" like what I actually fucking posted?
And for 90% of the stories and adventures in Deadlands, yes Ghost Rock is required to make the plots move forward because Ghost Rock is the MacGuffinite of that setting.
Quote from: jeff37923;982586This is where reading comprehension comes into play.....
Did I say "macguffin" like the voices in head claim or did I say "MacGuffinite" like what I actually fucking posted?
And for 90% of the stories and adventures in Deadlands, yes Ghost Rock is required to make the plots move forward because Ghost Rock is the MacGuffinite of that setting.
Ah so your one of those DMs that only runs printed adventures? Must be constraining.
With a little imagination (might take practice but I'm sure you can do it) you can create your own games that don't incorporate that upsetting background flavour.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982593Ah so your one of those DMs that only runs printed adventures? Must be constraining.
Well, we were talking about Deadlands and its MacGuffinite Ghost Rock before you moved the goalposts.
Quote from: jeff37923;982596Well, we were talking about Deadlands and its MacGuffinite Ghost Rock before you moved the goalposts.
We're still talking Deadlands and apparently your inability to not use a part of the setting borders on OCD.
It's ok as long as your a player and not the GM your groups should be ok.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982597We're still talking Deadlands and apparently your inability to not use a part of the setting borders on OCD.
It's ok as long as your a player and not the GM your groups should be ok.
This is why I hate educating fucktards....
OK, I can use setting elements just fine and still have the opinion that the creation of them is lazy. It is something any adult human being is capable of doing, although you obviously find this to be a feat of godlike multitasking.
Now, for example, I like science fiction. However, the use of nanotechnology as MacGuffinite is one of those lazy creator habits that I was talking about. Far too many look at nanotech and have decided that it is equivalent to magic which just ignores all of the other physical laws.
You probably weren't even born then, but in the 80's there used to be this erroneous belief that Quantum Mechanics proved that Magic could exist. This was mainly due to some new discoveries in the science of Quantum Mechanics made it popular and fucktards latched on to it thinking that they could ride that wave of popularity into some kind of monetary advantage. I hated that line of bullshit too. Yet it another, more Real World example of something actual being used as MacGuffinite, a deeper understanding of Quantum Mechanics led to the belief among the lazy thinkers that it proved the existence of Magic.
Want more? Star Trek and dilithium, anti-matter, warp drive, and transporter technology. How many times in episodes of Star Trek have their problems been resolved which involved technobabble surrounding one of those four technologies? The writers even went so far as to abbreviate it by calling it (tech) since one syllable is easier to type than four. Lazy creators, you can easily spot the episodes because they are typically the worst ones (and they will be defended to the death by rabid trekkies).
Quote from: jeff37923;982617This is why I hate educating fucktards....
OK, I can use setting elements just fine and still have the opinion that the creation of them is lazy. It is something any adult human being is capable of doing, although you obviously find this to be a feat of godlike multitasking.
Now, for example, I like science fiction. However, the use of nanotechnology as MacGuffinite is one of those lazy creator habits that I was talking about. Far too many look at nanotech and have decided that it is equivalent to magic which just ignores all of the other physical laws.
You probably weren't even born then, but in the 80's there used to be this erroneous belief that Quantum Mechanics proved that Magic could exist. This was mainly due to some new discoveries in the science of Quantum Mechanics made it popular and fucktards latched on to it thinking that they could ride that wave of popularity into some kind of monetary advantage. I hated that line of bullshit too. Yet it another, more Real World example of something actual being used as MacGuffinite, a deeper understanding of Quantum Mechanics led to the belief among the lazy thinkers that it proved the existence of Magic.
Want more? Star Trek and dilithium, anti-matter, warp drive, and transporter technology. How many times in episodes of Star Trek have their problems been resolved which involved technobabble surrounding one of those four technologies? The writers even went so far as to abbreviate it by calling it (tech) since one syllable is easier to type than four. Lazy creators, you can easily spot the episodes because they are typically the worst ones (and they will be defended to the death by rabid trekkies).
It's laughable how far off with my age you are. So what's your setting solution? Four white walls, ceiling and floor.
I'm guessing you never play D&D at all since the existence of that pesky magic makes people lazy and those bloody physics defying fire breathing lizards just ruins everything.
We can, and for the imaginative amongst us do, add setting elements. Some to allow for flavour that could not be achieved in that awesome white room setting you love, like those khyber shards in Eberron that let you have airships in the setting.
Or steam powered rocket ships made of wood. If your limit to creativity is what exists your games master must have his work cut out. I'm assuming it's not you unless you know four walls is your groups thing.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982626It's laughable how far off with my age you are. So what's your setting solution? Four white walls, ceiling and floor.
I'm guessing you never play D&D at all since the existence of that pesky magic makes people lazy and those bloody physics defying fire breathing lizards just ruins everything.
We can, and for the imaginative amongst us do, add setting elements. Some to allow for flavour that could not be achieved in that awesome white room setting you love, like those khyber shards in Eberron that let you have airships in the setting.
Or steam powered rocket ships made of wood. If your limit to creativity is what exists your games master must have his work cut out. I'm assuming it's not you unless you know four walls is your groups thing.
Do you feel better now? This hasn't been an argument about anything for several posts now. I stepped on your dick at some point in the past, hard enough to leave a mark apparently, and you have been bitchy about it ever since. So, go ahead and get whatever other snide remarks you have for me out of your system. I'll just sit here.
Quote from: jeff37923;982631Do you feel better now? This hasn't been an argument about anything for several posts now. I stepped on your dick at some point in the past, hard enough to leave a mark apparently, and you have been bitchy about it ever since. So, go ahead and get whatever other snide remarks you have for me out of your system. I'll just sit here.
Nah you've bored me enough for today. I'll just wait till your next silly assertion.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982634Nah you've bored me enough for today. I'll just wait till your next silly assertion.
So, you have decided that I am your Favored Enemy? OK, queue forms to the left, take a number.
Quote from: jeff37923;982638So, you have decided that I am your Favored Enemy? OK, queue forms to the left, take a number.
Actually no, sometimes you don't talk bollocks.
Unfortunately when you do you declare it like Moses with the Ten Commandments.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982639Actually no, sometimes you don't talk bollocks.
Unfortunately when you do you declare it like Moses with the Ten Commandments.
Sir, we are not serving your number at this time, please get back in queue.
But, you do understand that not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you do. Or is that too much common sense?
Horus, how about a lecture about going off on tangents in a thread? Please? Pretty please? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Dumarest;982664Horus, how about a lecture about going off on tangents in a thread? Please? Pretty please? :rolleyes:
He'd never stay on topic....
Quote from: Dumarest;982664Horus, how about a lecture about going off on tangents in a thread? Please? Pretty please? :rolleyes:
Except this discussion is related and is centred around whether it's lazy to introduce fantastic elements (super fuel).
I admit it's not asteroids or dig dug but even given your focused tastes surely you can see the ridiculousness of dismissing setting flavour.
How about we do away with cattle or six guns in those western games of yours?
Quote from: HorusArisen;982671Except this discussion is related and is centred around whether it's lazy to introduce fantastic elements (super fuel).
I admit it's not asteroids or dig dug but even given your focused tastes surely you can see the ridiculousness of dismissing setting flavour.
How about we do away with cattle or six guns in those western games of yours?
And it is Gross Conceptual Errors like this which make you an idiot.
In your example of Eberron, you talked about Khyber Crystals, but they are not MacGuffinite because they are not a fantastic element in a setting that already has fantastic elements. They are mundane in comparison to Magic. So they don't apply.
Cattle and six-guns are not MacGuffinite in a Western Game setting because those actually existed in the American West. Again, your examples do not apply.
Fuck, you now owe me $10.00 for this lesson. You may eschew paying me as long as the money goes to the upkeep of this forum.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982671Except this discussion is related and is centred around whether it's lazy to introduce fantastic elements (super fuel).
I admit it's not asteroids or dig dug but even given your focused tastes surely you can see the ridiculousness of dismissing setting flavour.
How about we do away with cattle or six guns in those western games of yours?
"Setting flavor" and required genre elements are totally different things. One has no relationship to the other, and your debate about McGuffins has nothing to do with the OP. Just own up to your ignorance and hypocrisy and we'll call it a day for you.
Quote from: jeff37923;982665He'd never stay on topic....
He just proved you right. Don't you get tired of that?
Quote from: Dumarest;982706"Setting flavor" and required genre elements are totally different things. One has no relationship to the other, and your debate about McGuffins has nothing to do with the OP. Just own up to your ignorance and hypocrisy and we'll call it a day for you.
Yawn.
Required setting elements are determined by the creator not you. The existence of those elements such as ghost rock tech is a flavour created by the presence of that element
Quote from: Dumarest;982708He just proved you right. Don't you get tired of that?
A bit. I keep hoping that my acerbic responses will cause new synapses to form in their brains, even while they hate me for it.
Quote from: jeff37923;982703And it is Gross Conceptual Errors like this which make you an idiot.
In your example of Eberron, you talked about Khyber Crystals, but they are not MacGuffinite because they are not a fantastic element in a setting that already has fantastic elements. They are mundane in comparison to Magic. So they don't apply.
Cattle and six-guns are not MacGuffinite in a Western Game setting because those actually existed in the American West. Again, your examples do not apply.
Fuck, you now owe me $10.00 for this lesson. You may eschew paying me as long as the money goes to the upkeep of this forum.
Yet ghost rock, that lazy concept, is as much a part of the setting of Deadlands as six guns and cattle to the western. The only difference is the historical nature of one doesn't require you to stretch that imagination.
I'm still saving for your operation.
Quote from: jeff37923;982724A bit. I keep hoping that my acerbic responses will cause new synapses to form in their brains, even while they hate me for it.
Stretch that imagination Jeff its pity not hate.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982730Yet ghost rock, that lazy concept, is as much a part of the setting of Deadlands as six guns and cattle to the western. The only difference is the historical nature of one doesn't require you to stretch that imagination.
Thus why Ghost Rock is MacGuffinite. Goddamn, you are dense....
Quote from: HorusArisen;982733Stretch that imagination Jeff its pity not hate.
Yes, pity me that I put up with ignorance like yours.
Quote from: jeff37923;982743Thus why Ghost Rock is MacGuffinite. Goddamn, you are dense....
Only in the sense that cattle and coal are :( it's ok Jeff.
Also technically macguffinite belongs more in the space genre, I'm being picky I know but justifying those colonists has to start somewhere in fiction.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982747Only in the sense that cattle and coal are :( it's ok Jeff.
OK, this made me laugh. You are comedy gold.
Quote from: jeff37923;982750OK, this made me laugh. You are comedy gold.
Aw shucks Clarabell :o
Well amusing myself with you two has gotten me through a really grotty day. Free advice stay away from the sick.
So thanks boys.
Quote from: HorusArisen;982752Aw shucks Clarabell :o
Well amusing myself with you two has gotten me through a really grotty day. Free advice stay away from the sick.
So thanks boys.
So who is sick in your house?
Just to comment on ghost rock in Deadlands, it is not just a macguffin. If you read the hell on earth book of the deadlines series it was revealed how ghost rock was created, who did it and why. It also revealed that ghost rock had an ultimate goal, which it attained in Hell on Earth.
I now return you to the Horus and Jeff show...
Quote from: Schwartzwald;983516Just to comment on ghost rock in Deadlands, it is not just a macguffin. If you read the hell on earth book of the deadlines series it was revealed how ghost rock was created, who did it and why. It also revealed that ghost rock had an ultimate goal, which it attained in Hell on Earth.
I now return you to the Horus and Jeff show...
Agreed. A McGuffin is something that exists solely to push the plot along. Ghost rock has very real uses for the players. It's a part of the plot, certainly, but it also serves as currency in a lot of places and will be essential for using mad science. Or you might have a group that ignores it entirely. So it definitely doesn't qualify for McGuffin status.
Quote from: Schwartzwald;983516Just to comment on ghost rock in Deadlands, it is not just a macguffin. If you read the hell on earth book of the deadlines series it was revealed how ghost rock was created, who did it and why. It also revealed that ghost rock had an ultimate goal, which it attained in Hell on Earth.
I now return you to the Horus and Jeff show...
Quote from: Brand55;983518Agreed. A McGuffin is something that exists solely to push the plot along. Ghost rock has very real uses for the players. It's a part of the plot, certainly, but it also serves as currency in a lot of places and will be essential for using mad science. Or you might have a group that ignores it entirely. So it definitely doesn't qualify for McGuffin status.
MacGuffin
ite, which has a different definition than a MacGuffin.
Quote from: jeff37923;983560MacGuffinite, which has a different definition than a MacGuffin.
Had to look it up since that's a much more obscure reference, but it's still not true for two main reasons. First, ghost rock is found all over the place. The west coast has a ton of it, absolutely, but it's hardly the only source. From what I read, MacGuffinite needs to only be available "out there" and thus be the motivating factor for people to go to a place. Second, the push westward was driven by a number of issues, the largest of which was probably the competition between the USA and CSA for more land, resources, etc. Ghost rock was just one part of that, albeit a really big piece. And then you also had plenty of normal folks looking to make new lives for themselves, and the west offered them the best chance for that.
A good way to think of ghost rock is to look at gold in our real history. It certainly played a huge part in the westward expansion of the US, but it was hardly the single driving force responsible for causing the country to expand ever westward. Ghost rock is a bit more important to the Deadlands reality than gold was to ours, but the setting specifically draws parallels between the two.
Quote from: Brand55;983569Had to look it up since that's a much more obscure reference, but it's still not true for two main reasons. First, ghost rock is found all over the place. The west coast has a ton of it, absolutely, but it's hardly the only source. From what I read, MacGuffinite needs to only be available "out there" and thus be the motivating factor for people to go to a place. Second, the push westward was driven by a number of issues, the largest of which was probably the competition between the USA and CSA for more land, resources, etc. Ghost rock was just one part of that, albeit a really big piece. And then you also had plenty of normal folks looking to make new lives for themselves, and the west offered them the best chance for that.
A good way to think of ghost rock is to look at gold in our real history. It certainly played a huge part in the westward expansion of the US, but it was hardly the single driving force responsible for causing the country to expand ever westward. Ghost rock is a bit more important to the Deadlands reality than gold was to ours, but the setting specifically draws parallels between the two.
Well, at least you bothered to look it up, which is a step more than the others.....
Here's the clincher for me about why Ghost Rock is MacGuffinite. The Deadlands setting, metaplot and all, could not exist without it.
Quote from: jeff37923;983560MacGuffinite, which has a different definition than a MacGuffin.
Is hair spliting a dexterity based skill or a perception based one?
Quote from: jeff37923;983589Well, at least you bothered to look it up, which is a step more than the others.....
Here's the clincher for me about why Ghost Rock is MacGuffinite. The Deadlands setting, metaplot and all, could not exist without it.
You can "win" your argument all you want to. I still will not think of or refer to ghost rock as a mcguffin, mcguffinite, mcguffinium or anything similar and there's nothing you can do about it.
Quote from: Schwartzwald;983608You can "win" your argument all you want to. I still will not think of or refer to ghost rock as a mcguffin, mcguffinite, mcguffinium or anything similar and there's nothing you can do about it.
*tag* your in
Quote from: Schwartzwald;983607Is hair spliting a dexterity based skill or a perception based one?
Yes.
Quote from: Schwartzwald;983608You can "win" your argument all you want to. I still will not think of or refer to ghost rock as a mcguffin, mcguffinite, mcguffinium or anything similar and there's nothing you can do about it.
That's cool.
Quote from: HorusArisen;983609*tag* your in
Who is sick at your home? Are they getting better?
Me which is why I'm being an argumentative wank.
Less feverish and vomiting I concede you have a viewpoint, I don't agree with it but it's there.
Quote from: HorusArisen;983618Me which is why I'm being an argumentative wank.
Less feverish and vomiting I concede you have a viewpoint, I don't agree with it but it's there.
We don't agree on much, but I do hope you get well soon.
Quote from: jeff37923;983861We don't agree on much, but I do hope you get well soon.
Thanks :)
Yeah, hope you start feeling better soon. Feeling ill blows and it never makes me particularly charitable, so props for even staying remotely civil.
Jeff, I can see your point though I do disagree for the reasons I listed in my last post. For those that prefer less of the gonzo weirdness, I've actually recommended rolling back the timeline a bit to before mad science spreads widely and swapping gold in for ghost rock like in the real world. You end up with a setting that's a bit more like our history but still has the horror western flavor. It's not wildly different, but some of the parts that people really don't like are missing.
Quote from: XX;982154I think he just rolled an 8 on the rpgsite post generation table. It's right between #7 "I'm not wasting my money on that when I've already got (game published in 1d6+1973)" and #9 "I'm not wasting my money on a game full of (Roll 1d3: 1 PC, 2 SJW, 3 political) crap".
Not every entry on the table is about spending money. #3, for example, is "players today just don't have any imagination and might as well just play a (roll a d4: 1 video, 2 board, 3 card, 4 coin-flipping) game!"
Best post in a while. Hilarious.