Quote from: James Gillen;792134SR definitely has more punk style and (at least lip service to) anarchist politics than steampunk.

JG

Yeah, I'd agree... at least about the steampunk games I've seen.

Quote from: Simlasa;792086I'm not sure punks were against mediation or reconciliation... they just challenged the status quo and rebelled against oppression and excessive order. Shouted 'anarchy' but generally only meant it as means to something less extreme.
Rotwang is just mad with vengeance... not politics.

I remember wanting more 'punk' in Shadowrun... more themes of overt rebellion... but that didn't seem to be on the menu.

I don't associate punk with violent revolution. To the extent it has a characteristic political ethos, I'd say that's anarchism that is "revolutionary" by simply doing its thing without concern for the state. Punk undertakings are more likely to make a point of not being coercive.

There are neo-Nazi punks, but their politics is characteristically Nazi, and they're a minority of punks.

Lots of people are into punk rock, even more into punk-inspired fashions (not necessarily embraced by everyone playing or listening to punk rock). That can reflect a consumerist view that has no interest in revolution at all! Stuff that was "counter-culture" in the 1970s-80s is in pretty mainstream vogue today.

Quote from: Phillip;792390I don't associate punk with violent revolution. To the extent it has a characteristic political ethos, I'd say that's anarchism that is "revolutionary" by simply doing its thing without concern for the state. Punk undertakings are more likely to make a point of not being coercive.

  Thanks for the correction. I'm not very familiar with punk, so the nuance of 'anti-authoritarian but not violently revolutionary' was something I'd missed.

Without getting too much into the difference between the myriad of factions in "punk" culture (and there are a lot - oi!, anarcho, old school, new wave, rock, metal, pop, dub, ska, etc., and all sorts of combinations thereof), there are definitely some things you can say about the attitude and factions with a broadish brush - punk is usually anti-authoritarian (aside from the very small number of nazi punks) - ranging from hating rules and offering two fingers to authority to a more thought out political idea; into shock (although what was shocking then, is less so now); certain fashions; generally fast and "aggressive" music; and DIY.

I don't think that steampunk has to reflect most of those aspects of "punk", though often you can play it either way (the games I design usually give the choice), but I'd say the one aspect of punk that really does tally with Steampunk is DIY - making your own clothes/accessories/culture/fun, not building shelves!

DIY was surely part of it, not to be seen buying your way into the culture.
Another constant was handwringing over what was/wasn't 'punk'... just like what is/isn't 'goth' or what is/isn't an RPG or OSR. Maybe PCs should have an Authentic/Poser rating?

Quote from: Simlasa;792598DIY was surely part of it, not to be seen buying your way into the culture.
Another constant was handwringing over what was/wasn't 'punk'... just like what is/isn't 'goth' or what is/isn't an RPG or OSR. Maybe PCs should have an Authentic/Poser rating?

"La, la, la, la, la, la, the part-time punks"

Yeah, I ignore that - if you can't be yourself, it makes it a farce (but some people take punk credentials very seriously).

"Part Time Punks" - flashback, recalled the song, after all these years found out who did it. Thanks for the memory.

Quote from: Phillip;792627"Part Time Punks" - flashback, recalled the song, after all these years found out who did it. Thanks for the memory.

You're welcome

Although you might not be thanking me for long, it is one of those songs that causes earworm...

Quote from: doomedpc;792581punk is usually anti-authoritarian (aside from the very small number of nazi punks) - ranging from hating rules and offering two fingers to authority to a more thought out political idea; into shock (although what was shocking then, is less so now); certain fashions;

Well, that certainly suggests that the steampunk artwork featuring women flashing a hint of their cleavage, showing off their ankles in shocking short knee-length skirts, or wearing trousers (horrid!) are more punk than we first thought.

Quote from: Xanador;790910So my players wanted to try a Steampunk game and since I frankly know nothing about the genre I began to look around. Much to my surprise I'm having a very difficult time finding a pure Steampunk game. By pure I mean a game that's not Fantasy or Horror etc with Steampunk bolted on(pardon the pun).

While I have no problem with some supernatural elements I don't want elves and dwarves walking the streets of London.

So far the closest I've come is Victoriana, but even that is loaded with non-human races. Any suggestions or am I out of luck?

Thinking about this original request - I just picked up Cogs, Cakes & Swordsticks. It's a very light system, and short book (50 pages). It's got it's fantastical elements, but seems entirely non-horror and non-fantasy. No fantasy races or such. The history of the Empire of Steam seems fairly in-period and more extrapolation of what might have happened.

Quote from: shuddemell;790972You might take a look at the "Widening Gyre", which is a steampunk setting for Hero System. It is pretty good and less tied to SF, Horror or other outre elements that might make it seem less pure.

There is also a Savage Worlds version by the same author.
http://www.blackwyrm.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=173




And here is more info on the HERO System version.
http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/107674/widening-gyre