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So my players wanted to try a Steampunk game and since I frankly know nothing about the genre I began to look around. Much to my surprise I'm having a very difficult time finding a pure Steampunk game. By pure I mean a game that's not Fantasy or Horror etc with Steampunk bolted on(pardon the pun).

While I have no problem with some supernatural elements I don't want elves and dwarves walking the streets of London.

So far the closest I've come is Victoriana, but even that is loaded with non-human races. Any suggestions or am I out of luck?

Space: 1889 (GDW, later Heliograph)
First I recall seeing the "steampunk" term, back when "cyberpunk" was in vogue. European imperialism on Mars and Venus. Treaded landships and walking tripods, ether flyers with solar boilers, sail-driven airships of Martian liftwood, mysteries on Luna, anarchists and monarchists all over the place.

Forgotten Futures (Google for the website)
Free-to-download rules for various pieces of science fiction that were written during the Victorian era, along with the stories themselves.

Cakebread and Walton have a steampunk book out for their OneDice system but I've yet to have a look at it. It doesn't seem to be locked in to horror or spaceships or such.

Is Steampunk really a genre itself?

I see steampunk as more of a setting than a genre. What types of adventures would be "pure" steampunk?

Quote from: Exploderwizard;790939Is Steampunk really a genre itself?

Probably not... mostly an excuse to wear goggles and hot-glue gears on your hat.
Kind of like how 'Gothic' has come to be wearing black and putting skulls on everything.
Except for the fashions and equipment I can't think of what identifying elements a Steampunk game would have that isn't shared by Victorian scifi.

Quote from: Simlasa;790946Probably not... mostly an excuse to wear goggles and hot-glue gears on your hat.
Kind of like how 'Gothic' has come to be wearing black and putting skulls on everything.
Except for the fashions and equipment I can't think of what identifying elements a Steampunk game would have that isn't shared by Victorian scifi.

...or, indeed, cyberpunk (Well, other than people having manners and dressing well).

Pure is admittedly entirely a matter of taste. I'm not sure I can define it but I'll know it when I see it kind of thing.

Deadlands is a western game with SP elements.

Radiance is a fantasy game with SP.

Space:1889 is a space game using steampunk instead of science fiction.

I guess I'm looking for something that puts the emphasis on the gadgets in a more or less Victorian era setting. There are a number of games out there that just don't seem to have any reviews for them so I'm asking here.

Quote from: Xanador;790952e

I guess I'm looking for something that puts the emphasis on the gadgets in a more or less Victorian era setting. There are a number of games out there that just don't seem to have any reviews for them so I'm asking here.

I think in general you're going to end up with "Steampunk+ something," because steampunk is basically a visual and technological aesthetic, not something to solely hang a game framework on--that is "Steampunk" by itself is just Alt-history, and it needs other genre conceits to make it more regularly playable. That isn't to say you can't have an awesome game that is mostly  steampunk. I'm working on one (someday) but the plan is to do one with no fantasy races that aren't drawn from (near) Victorian fiction. It will be "pulp Steampunk" though, as you need character doing things besides working 18 hour days in the textile factories, or lording over others and talking about t he good old days when Britain conquered the world.

Admittedly, I'm tired of elves and dwarves in such settings.

(Especially since most Victorian era fae things were sprites, and pixie like things)

You might take a look at the "Widening Gyre", which is a steampunk setting for Hero System. It is pretty good and less tied to SF, Horror or other outre elements that might make it seem less pure.

Castle Falkenstein is the closest I've got, though I, too, dispute the idea of "pure" steampunk — at least as the term's understood nowadays, which has nothing to do with "punk", really.

On the other hand, you might be able to think up a "proper" steampunk if PCs are savvy but marginalized malcontents ("punks") eking out an existence somewhere within the cracks and crevices of a dystopic steampunk society. A game that would be to The Difference Engine as Cyberpunk 2020 is to Johnny Mnemonic or Neuromancer.

Quote from: Xanador;790910While I have no problem with some supernatural elements I don't want elves and dwarves walking the streets of London.

So far the closest I've come is Victoriana, but even that is loaded with non-human races. Any suggestions or am I out of luck?

There's another game based on the Victoriana 2e game engine called Dark Harvest : Legacy of Frankenstein (http://www.darkharvest-legacyoffrankenstein.com), which you can pick up from DTRPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?manufacturers_id=5926) (1st ed corebook is free, 2nd ed is coming next year or so).

It's set in an alternate Romania before WW1, which Victor Frankenstein took over and made into a SCIENCE MERITOCRACY! using his genius inventing powers and his knowledge; the setting is currently in a cold war between the former Romanian nobles (Who just want to oppress peasants, because they're jerks), an underground peasant rebellion (Led by Adam), Victor's scientists (Victor wants no part of this civil war, and wants the nobles gone because they're dicks who have abused his technology), and the other nations outside Promothea (Who are cheerfully gearing up for WW1 and would really, really, like Victor's tech on their side). There's an all-powerful military police force used as a pawn between all of the groups, and the setting contains potential for all sorts of adventures; the tech level isn't too WTFgonzo (General tech is about twenty years ahead of the rest of the world, but mastery of genetics and electricity is unparalleled). There's no supernatural or magic; it's all tech.

It's pretty good, I like it.

Fair disclosure: I was one of the playtesters, and I'm friends with most of the writers in real life.

http://www.tripleacegames.com/brands/leagues-of-adventure/

Quote from: Phillip;790914Space: 1889Forgotten Futures (Google for the website)
Free-to-download rules for various pieces of science fiction that were written during the Victorian era, along with the stories themselves.

This feels like a great recommendation, and given it's shareware and one can check it out for free. :)

Im definitely not going to be recommending Through the Breech - I just got it, and like it, but it's way too fantasy for the OP.

The newest iteration of Victoriana was less fantastic at least.

Thanks, looks like several useful suggestions for me to check out.

Have you looked at Leagues of Adventure?

Airship Pirates, by Cakebread and Walton, based on the songs of Abney Park is pretty damned steampunk, albeit in a dystopia. It uses the same system as Victoriana or Dark Heresey but is a standalone game.

It focuses more on airships and pirates in an alternate timeline where North America is ruled in grim neo Victorian cities by the Emperor, but in the open wild spaces in between, free folk and rebels roam the skies in airships.

http://clockworkandchivalry.co.uk/games/abney-parks-airships-pirates/

Quote from: 3rik;791033Have you looked at Leagues of Adventure?

This. Good game.

A third recommendation for Leagues of Adventure - a real fast-moving gem of a game in play.

It has great support from Triple Ace Games with reasonably priced pdf downloads, which expand on the core book and also allow you to add magic or fantastic creatures if required. Most of the pdfs also have useful ready to play PCs and many NPCs, which saves time. But the core book has all you really need, and the core assumes no magic or alien creatures...aside from the odd cryptoid or two...

The expanded gear in the weird science/steam tech pdfs may be useful if gadgets are to play a large part in your game. The game is more Steam Pulp rather than punk - the PCs are assumed to be middle class or upper class people with ties to established society - but it would be easy to twist the setting to middle class and noble anarchist black sheep, if that's what you are after.

Recommended.

Quote from: tzunder;791034Airship Pirates, by Cakebread and Walton, based on the songs of Abney Park is pretty damned steampunk, albeit in a dystopia. It uses the same system as Victoriana or Dark Heresey but is a standalone game.

Dark Harvest, not Heresy :)

If you wanted to get all gonzo about it, the systems could easily be merged together - bits of DH's biotech system have apparently made it into Victoriana 3e supplements, for example, and would probably fit really well into Airship Pirate's completely fucked-up future.

Have you looked at Verne (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/88907/EABA-Verne-v10?term=verne) for the EABA system? It also has a questionnaire that builds characters for you, which is pretty neat.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;791044A third recommendation for Leagues of Adventure - a real fast-moving gem of a game in play.

It has great support from Triple Ace Games with reasonably priced pdf downloads, which expand on the core book and also allow you to add magic or fantastic creatures if required. Most of the pdfs also have useful ready to play PCs and many NPCs, which saves time. But the core book has all you really need, and the core assumes no magic or alien creatures...aside from the odd cryptoid or two...

The expanded gear in the weird science/steam tech pdfs may be useful if gadgets are to play a large part in your game. The game is more Steam Pulp rather than punk - the PCs are assumed to be middle class or upper class people with ties to established society - but it would be easy to twist the setting to middle class and noble anarchist black sheep, if that's what you are after.

Recommended.

A somewhat similar concept, but with much more subtle and less widespread Jules Vernean weird science, is Terra Incognita, a fun Fudge game of Victorian exploration from Grey Ghost Games.

It's not particularly Steampunk or Victorian but Lowell Was Right! (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=29693) has shedloads of interesting ideas extrapolated from the real science ideas of that era that could certainly be of use and give a unique flavor.

Quote from: Ladybird;790974Fair disclosure: I was one of the playtesters, and I'm friends with most of the writers in real life.

Is there a reason they choose Romania, say over Switzerland?

Quote from: dragoner;791091Is there a reason they choose Romania, say over Switzerland?

Maybe evoking the association of Frankenstein and the "Adam of his labors" with Dracula (and the Wolfman) in the Universal Studios movie series? As for Switzerland, I think its neutrality in the Great War is too ingrained an assumption. Italy, Germany or England might seem more fitting on that account.

Quote from: dragoner;791091Is there a reason they choose Romania, say over Switzerland?

That's a good question, and answered on the web site!

QuoteWhy Romania? What made you choose this region at that time as the central piece of the setting?
Dark Harvest: The Legacy of Frankenstein (DH:LoF) was always seen as a gothic horror setting, with heavy Hammer Films influences. Although there's no connection between the original Frankenstein story and Romania, it struck me as amusing to set the whole thing in Transylvania– the ultimate gothic horror location. I figured I'd do the research and see if it fitted. If it didn't, then no loss. In the end, the Balkan politics in the mid-1800's were a perfect fit for what I wanted to do. Romanian history, of all the emerging Balkan countries at the time, turned out to be the easiest to 'kidnap'. It was far easier to hide Victor Frankenstein in Romania than anywhere else, and far easier for him to twist the forces of Romanian independence on the fringes of Bismark's empire building. It was fun too!

Yeah, there's also that factor of semi-plausibility in picking a country in which Frankenstein rises to the position of head of state. Plus, from the Western view, the Balkans are just the sort of place where one might have overlooked a Ruritania.

Quote from: Ladybird;791102That's a good question, and answered on the web site!

Interesting, thanks. :)

The one observation I have is that Transylvania pre WW1 is part of Hungary. As well as the "popularized" accent of Dracula as well (by Bela Lugosi) is Hungarian. I have relatives from the area.

Quote from: Phillip;791103Yeah, there's also that factor of semi-plausibility in picking a country in which Frankenstein rises to the position of head of state. Plus, from the Western view, the Balkans are just the sort of place where one might have overlooked a Ruritania.

It's also in a really interesting place in a few year's time (DH is canonically "set in" 1910; I think 2nd ed will be moving forwards a few years, but even if not, alt-history fans have a lot to work with).

Quote from: dragoner;791110Interesting, thanks. :)

The one observation I have is that Transylvania pre WW1 is part of Hungary. As well as the "popularized" accent of Dracula as well (by Bela Lugosi) is Hungarian. I have relatives from the area.

DH diverges from our timeline in about the mid-18th century (It's not stated exactly when Victor starts his power grab, but it takes him decades); he's almost certainly assisting the rebellion in 1877 that leads to Transylvania becoming part of Romania, long before he goes public.

Well, technically it diverges from our timeline when Victor is born, but you know what I mean.

Quote from: Simlasa;791086It's not particularly Steampunk or Victorian but Lowell Was Right! (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=29693) has shedloads of interesting ideas extrapolated from the real science ideas of that era that could certainly be of use and give a unique flavor.

Simlasa, you wrote 'real science' and 'steampunk' in the same sentence! Consider yourself punished! And don't do it again, or I'll give you more of the same!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;791121Simlasa, you wrote 'real science' and 'steampunk' in the same sentence!
-clash

Hmmm... I could have used 'real theory'... 'authentic concepts'... 'potent period prognostications'?
Though... if your threat is to create more content for Lowell Was Right! then I'll just accept the punishment.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;790939Is Steampunk really a genre itself?

I see steampunk as more of a setting than a genre. What types of adventures would be "pure" steampunk?

I always thought pure steampunk would be something like James Bond - heroes with gizmos battle/outwit a mad scientist's claim for world domination.

I've been enjoying this thread - and the Dark Harvest supplement sounds really interesting now - but I thought I'd pop by and mention GURPS Steampunk, which did win an Origin award and which I remember being good, but it's been a while and I don't remember details.  Out of print but available in pdf.

GURPS worldbooks are usually pretty awesome whether or not you use the rules set.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;791424I always thought pure steampunk would be something like James Bond - heroes with gizmos battle/outwit a mad scientist's claim for world domination.

I thought it would be more like the Sex Pistols trying to play with traditional instruments.  It would probably sound like the Pogues.

JG

I'm just waiting for the day that "Diesel-punk" becomes more of a thing. I'm kind of sick of "add goggles, a top hat and a few gears" to steam-punk everything.

Quote from: Necrozius;791940I'm just waiting for the day that "Diesel-punk" becomes more of a thing. I'm kind of sick of "add goggles, a top hat and a few gears" to steam-punk everything.

There's apparently also Tesla-punk and Clock-punk...

Quote from: 3rik;791946There's apparently also Tesla-punk and Clock-punk...

Yeah...all too much of it, and it frequently means nothing.

My comment up thread about Leagues of Adventure PCs being assumed to be part of established society was prompted by the 'punk' suffix of the OP. If a punk suffix means anything, IMHO it should mean that PCs are outside of and generally opposed to established society - even if they aren't trying actively to change society.

Most something-punk games should really use pulp (in the rpg sense) instead, as they are usually games of high adventure with weird science.

Building a steam-powered flying machine to destroy the fleets of the Great Powers to try to impose world peace is punk (even if the inventor is a nobleman wearing a frockcoat). Building a flying machine to travel the world and explore unmapped regions for the Royal Geographical Society isn't punk. At least as I see it.

But really, it's a meaningless term, and I wish people would stop adding it to everything.

Quote from: Necrozius;791940I'm just waiting for the day that "Diesel-punk" becomes more of a thing. I'm kind of sick of "add goggles, a top hat and a few gears" to steam-punk everything.

I like the aesthetics of Dieselpunk more than Steampunk... it brings to mind some of the crazier Italian Futurists... proto-fascists in love with anything mechanical... movies like Metropolis and City of Lost Children. Big engines and sleek designs.
I'm not sure who the 'punks' of the genre are though... probably some anti-machine faction... or the oppressed serfs of Metropolis.

Quote from: Simlasa;791994I like the aesthetics of Dieselpunk more than Steampunk... it brings to mind some of the crazier Italian Futurists... proto-fascists in love with anything mechanical... movies like Metropolis and City of Lost Children. Big engines and sleek designs.
I'm not sure who the 'punks' of the genre are though... probably some anti-machine faction... or the oppressed serfs of Metropolis.

  Hmm...wouldn't Metropolis be anti-punk in its message of reconciliation and mediation as opposed to violent revolution? If anyone's a punk in that film, it's probably Rotwang.

If I remember well, there is a Polish RPG called Wolsung (translated in English), which looks like Shadowrun in a Victorian setting. But I'm not well versed in this game and I think it will be a good thing if another forum member could do a short review of this RPG.

Time for glampunk?

We're white punks on dope
Mom and dad moved to Hollywood

Like, we live in Beverly Hills and this like ancient dude, you know, totally calls us punks like every time we ride our scooters by his house.

While I love victorian sci-fi and retro-victorian sci-fi (like Space: 1889), "steampunk" is certainly my least favorite "punk", as it's the most contrived and shallow.

Quote from: yabaziou;792013If I remember well, there is a Polish RPG called Wolsung (translated in English), which looks like Shadowrun in a Victorian setting. But I'm not well versed in this game and I think it will be a good thing if another forum member could do a short review of this RPG.

I have a copy, but never really dug into it. From just the skim I gave it, and the table of contents, it's definitely in the shadowrun / fantasy game with a veneer of steampunk (elves, gnomes, trolls, orcs ...).

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;792008Hmm...wouldn't Metropolis be anti-punk in its message of reconciliation and mediation as opposed to violent revolution? If anyone's a punk in that film, it's probably Rotwang.

I'm not sure punks were against mediation or reconciliation... they just challenged the status quo and rebelled against oppression and excessive order. Shouted 'anarchy' but generally only meant it as means to something less extreme.
Rotwang is just mad with vengeance... not politics.

I remember wanting more 'punk' in Shadowrun... more themes of overt rebellion... but that didn't seem to be on the menu.

Quote from: Simlasa;792086I'm not sure punks were against mediation or reconciliation... they just challenged the status quo and rebelled against oppression and excessive order. Shouted 'anarchy' but generally only meant it as means to something less extreme.
Rotwang is just mad with vengeance... not politics.

I remember wanting more 'punk' in Shadowrun... more themes of overt rebellion... but that didn't seem to be on the menu.

SR definitely has more punk style and (at least lip service to) anarchist politics than steampunk.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;792134SR definitely has more punk style and (at least lip service to) anarchist politics than steampunk.

JG

Yeah, I'd agree... at least about the steampunk games I've seen.

Quote from: Simlasa;792086I'm not sure punks were against mediation or reconciliation... they just challenged the status quo and rebelled against oppression and excessive order. Shouted 'anarchy' but generally only meant it as means to something less extreme.
Rotwang is just mad with vengeance... not politics.

I remember wanting more 'punk' in Shadowrun... more themes of overt rebellion... but that didn't seem to be on the menu.

I don't associate punk with violent revolution. To the extent it has a characteristic political ethos, I'd say that's anarchism that is "revolutionary" by simply doing its thing without concern for the state. Punk undertakings are more likely to make a point of not being coercive.

There are neo-Nazi punks, but their politics is characteristically Nazi, and they're a minority of punks.

Lots of people are into punk rock, even more into punk-inspired fashions (not necessarily embraced by everyone playing or listening to punk rock). That can reflect a consumerist view that has no interest in revolution at all! Stuff that was "counter-culture" in the 1970s-80s is in pretty mainstream vogue today.

Quote from: Phillip;792390I don't associate punk with violent revolution. To the extent it has a characteristic political ethos, I'd say that's anarchism that is "revolutionary" by simply doing its thing without concern for the state. Punk undertakings are more likely to make a point of not being coercive.

  Thanks for the correction. I'm not very familiar with punk, so the nuance of 'anti-authoritarian but not violently revolutionary' was something I'd missed.

Without getting too much into the difference between the myriad of factions in "punk" culture (and there are a lot - oi!, anarcho, old school, new wave, rock, metal, pop, dub, ska, etc., and all sorts of combinations thereof), there are definitely some things you can say about the attitude and factions with a broadish brush - punk is usually anti-authoritarian (aside from the very small number of nazi punks) - ranging from hating rules and offering two fingers to authority to a more thought out political idea; into shock (although what was shocking then, is less so now); certain fashions; generally fast and "aggressive" music; and DIY.

I don't think that steampunk has to reflect most of those aspects of "punk", though often you can play it either way (the games I design usually give the choice), but I'd say the one aspect of punk that really does tally with Steampunk is DIY - making your own clothes/accessories/culture/fun, not building shelves!

DIY was surely part of it, not to be seen buying your way into the culture.
Another constant was handwringing over what was/wasn't 'punk'... just like what is/isn't 'goth' or what is/isn't an RPG or OSR. Maybe PCs should have an Authentic/Poser rating?

Quote from: Simlasa;792598DIY was surely part of it, not to be seen buying your way into the culture.
Another constant was handwringing over what was/wasn't 'punk'... just like what is/isn't 'goth' or what is/isn't an RPG or OSR. Maybe PCs should have an Authentic/Poser rating?

"La, la, la, la, la, la, the part-time punks"

Yeah, I ignore that - if you can't be yourself, it makes it a farce (but some people take punk credentials very seriously).

"Part Time Punks" - flashback, recalled the song, after all these years found out who did it. Thanks for the memory.

Quote from: Phillip;792627"Part Time Punks" - flashback, recalled the song, after all these years found out who did it. Thanks for the memory.

You're welcome :)

Although you might not be thanking me for long, it is one of those songs that causes earworm...

Quote from: doomedpc;792581punk is usually anti-authoritarian (aside from the very small number of nazi punks) - ranging from hating rules and offering two fingers to authority to a more thought out political idea; into shock (although what was shocking then, is less so now); certain fashions;

Well, that certainly suggests that the steampunk artwork featuring women flashing a hint of their cleavage, showing off their ankles in shocking short knee-length skirts, or wearing trousers (horrid!) are more punk than we first thought. :)

Quote from: Xanador;790910So my players wanted to try a Steampunk game and since I frankly know nothing about the genre I began to look around. Much to my surprise I'm having a very difficult time finding a pure Steampunk game. By pure I mean a game that's not Fantasy or Horror etc with Steampunk bolted on(pardon the pun).

While I have no problem with some supernatural elements I don't want elves and dwarves walking the streets of London.

So far the closest I've come is Victoriana, but even that is loaded with non-human races. Any suggestions or am I out of luck?

Thinking about this original request - I just picked up Cogs, Cakes & Swordsticks. It's a very light system, and short book (50 pages). It's got it's fantastical elements, but seems entirely non-horror and non-fantasy. No fantasy races or such. The history of the Empire of Steam seems fairly in-period and more extrapolation of what might have happened.

Quote from: shuddemell;790972You might take a look at the "Widening Gyre", which is a steampunk setting for Hero System. It is pretty good and less tied to SF, Horror or other outre elements that might make it seem less pure.

There is also a Savage Worlds version by the same author.
http://www.blackwyrm.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=173

(http://www.blackwyrm.com/catalog/images/GyreMini.png)


And here is more info on the HERO System version.
http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/107674/widening-gyre

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