I'm putting together a WEG Star Wars campaign where the PCs are Imperial stormtroopers and other operatives in a special anti-crime/anti-terror task force (mainly going after smugglers, pirates, criminal syndicates...thought it might be a interesting change of pace).
Is there anything in the canon regarding non-human stormtroopers? I know they were originally clones of JF, but later became recruits/conscripts.
I believe that The Empire was largely xenophobic - hence their entire military being human. Not just the stormtroopers, but also the officers.
Having said that, the Star Wars universe is a big, big place, and you're the DM.
There's no reason why the Empire in your campaign might make use of alien auxiliary troops similarly to how the Romans used to.
Quote from: Premier on June 01, 2021, 03:59:23 PM
There's no reason why the Empire in your campaign might make use of alien auxiliary troops similarly to how the Romans used to.
Oh yeah - while I wouldn't make them stormtroopers specifically, The Empire could easily use local mercenaries to fill out their ranks, especially in the outer systems. Heck - when Vader recruited a bunch of bounty hunters, several of them weren't human. That lizard guy and a droid off the top of my head. (I remember the droid being a boss fight in the N64 Star Wars game. IG-17?)
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on June 01, 2021, 04:05:41 PM
Quote from: Premier on June 01, 2021, 03:59:23 PM
There's no reason why the Empire in your campaign might make use of alien auxiliary troops similarly to how the Romans used to.
Oh yeah - while I wouldn't make them stormtroopers specifically, The Empire could easily use local mercenaries to fill out their ranks, especially in the outer systems. Heck - when Vader recruited a bunch of bounty hunters, several of them weren't human. That lizard guy and a droid off the top of my head. (I remember the droid being a boss fight in the N64 Star Wars game. IG-17?)
IG-88, you plebian :) (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/IG-88B)
But yeah, auxiliaries or hired guns would definitely work.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on June 01, 2021, 03:49:49 PM
I believe that The Empire was largely xenophobic - hence their entire military being human. Not just the stormtroopers, but also the officers.
Yes, you have to be very, very good--as in Thrawn--to make it as a nonhuman in the Empire under Palpatine and his immediate successors. Legacy-era Empire (140 years post-Jedi) got rid of this.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on June 01, 2021, 03:49:49 PM
I believe that The Empire was largely xenophobic - hence their entire military being human. Not just the stormtroopers, but also the officers.
Is this canon? I don't see any evidence if it in the movies, other than the death star officers were all human. But we didn't see that many of them, and it might have been for budgetary reasons more than story. On the other hand, we see the Emperor has non-human advisors in ROTJ and the prequels. Perhaps he is secretly racist? Yet he took a non-human as his apprentice.
The "Empire was racist" trope probably got it's start in the WEG's books in the 90's.
Oh wait, that can't be right. All role-playing was evil and racist back then.
Quote from: Aglondir on June 01, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on June 01, 2021, 03:49:49 PM
I believe that The Empire was largely xenophobic - hence their entire military being human. Not just the stormtroopers, but also the officers.
Is this canon? I don't see any evidence if it in the movies, other than the death star officers were all human. But we didn't see that many of them, and it might have been for budgetary reasons more than story. On the other hand, we see the Emperor has non-human advisors in ROTJ and the prequels. Perhaps he is secretly racist? Yet he took a non-human as his apprentice.
The "Empire was racist" trope probably got it's start in the WEG's books in the 90's.
Oh wait, that can't be right. All role-playing was evil and racist back then.
It was earlier than that. I remember reading from authoritative sources back in the 80s that the reason Chewbacca didn't get a medals with the others was that even the Alliance had racism against non-humans, and they're a lot more tolerant than the Empire.
Quote from: Aglondir on June 01, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper on June 01, 2021, 03:49:49 PM
I believe that The Empire was largely xenophobic - hence their entire military being human. Not just the stormtroopers, but also the officers.
Is this canon?
I can't remember a point in the OT or prequels where the Empire is outright racist in it's policies.
A xenophobic Empire made up of non-humans doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Palpatine had non-humans in his cabinet. I imagine the reason most characers in SW were human was due to budget more than any story reason. Technically, none of the species in the Republic were "alien". They were all part of the big cosmic community.
Having said that, I like the idea that Stormtroopers are clones. You don't get to join the Stormtroopers, they're made in vats. Having non-human auxiliaries in the Imperial Army sounds like a neat idea to me, and a way to have clones and non-humans working together in a squad.
When the Empire switched from Clone Troopers to Stormtroopers, they still had a huge amount of war materiel (gear, training methods, medical support) that was optimized for humans (specifically Jango Fett's biology, but probably much easier to adapt to other humans than to non-humans). Sticking with humans--which are plentiful in the SW galaxy--at the start was a sensible cost-saving measure.
Quote from: Joey2k on June 01, 2021, 03:43:47 PM
I'm putting together a WEG Star Wars campaign where the PCs are Imperial stormtroopers and other operatives in a special anti-crime/anti-terror task force (mainly going after smugglers, pirates, criminal syndicates...thought it might be a interesting change of pace).
Is there anything in the canon regarding non-human stormtroopers? I know they were originally clones of JF, but later became recruits/conscripts.
As a Stormtrooper I'd say no. But I could see near-humans making up big parts of the Imperial Army especially from the Mid-Rim and outwards. But that's all IMO. As others have said its a big universe and this is largely not discussed apart from the New Order's human supremacist stance.
Quote from: Mishihari on June 01, 2021, 05:33:49 PMIt was earlier than that. I remember reading from authoritative sources back in the 80s that the reason Chewbacca didn't get a medals with the others was that even the Alliance had racism against non-humans, and they're a lot more tolerant than the Empire.
I don't know what you consider "authoritative sources", but the official in-universe explanation actually is (and AFAIK always has been) that Wookiee culture just doesn't care about awards, medals and decorations, and there was a separate Wookiee-appropriate ceremony later on. In terms of movie-making decisions, it's probably because the size difference between Carrie Fisher and Peter Mayhew would have made any solution look a bit ridiculous and would have harmed the emotional impact of the scene. Bathos was not yet the cinematographic cancer it is today back in '77.
Canon is a pretty nebulous concept. To be really strict, I wouldn't consider anything outside of the original 3 movies to be canonical.
Some of the novels are arguably worth including in canon, and a lot of people might go so far to include even the prequel movies.
Based on the Star Wars stuff I've watched and read over the years I don't recall there being a major element of human supremacy in the Empire. The concept of "human" may not even exist in Star Wars. Sure, the majority of people that appear in the films are human, but that is just practical for films on many levels.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 01, 2021, 05:48:33 PM
I can't remember a point in the OT or prequels where the Empire is outright racist in it's policies.
It's something that came out of the Expanded Universe, perhaps to reinforce the Nazi parallels, perhaps as 'cheap heat', perhaps because we see Fringe and Rebel nonhumans but never any Imperials in the Original Trilogy. Like a lot of the EU, it suffers cracks in the wake of the Prequels, but nothing insurmountable.
Found this in the Xenophobia entry on Wookiepedia:
QuoteThe idea of a xenophobic Galactic Empire was explored in Star Wars Legends literature and media. According to Jason Fry, the Lucasfilm Story Group had worked out that the Galactic Empire in the new canon universe was not "openly or uniformly" xenophobic. However, he reasoned many staunch Imperials like the Servants of the Empire antagonist Janus Fhurek were also committed xenophobes.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Xenophobia#cite_note-Wired_for_the_Classics-52
Legends = EU stuff, Non-canon
Lucasfilm Story Group = a division of Lucasfilm Ltd. responsible for keeping track of Star Wars canon in order to assist writers and directors in the development of new stories.But Lucas is pretty cool with people playing in the sandbox. I could see a xenophobic, Nazi-like empire. I could also see one that was just a huge military machine. Whatever works for your campaign is the key.
I mean the OP is running WEG which is the granddaddy of the EU. And IIRC COMPNOR was explicitly xenophobic in the Imperial Sourcebook.
If you want to switch to using the new canon and ditch "Legends" then there's been nothing explicitly mentioned.
Quote from: KingCheops on June 02, 2021, 10:09:33 AM
I mean the OP is running WEG which is the granddaddy of the EU. And IIRC COMPNOR was explicitly xenophobic in the Imperial Sourcebook.
That's true.
I was wrong about Palpatine's advisors in ROTJ being non-human. I thought they were some sort of close-to-human aliens, but Wookiepedia says they are human dark side adepts. Now I'm running with the reason why they look "alien" is that that they are consumed by the Dark Side, which is even cooler.
Quote from: Aglondir on June 02, 2021, 01:03:33 PM
Quote from: KingCheops on June 02, 2021, 10:09:33 AM
I mean the OP is running WEG which is the granddaddy of the EU. And IIRC COMPNOR was explicitly xenophobic in the Imperial Sourcebook.
That's true.
I was wrong about Palpatine's advisors in ROTJ being non-human. I thought they were some sort of close-to-human aliens, but Wookiepedia says they are human dark side adepts. Now I'm running with the reason why they look "alien" is that that they are consumed by the Dark Side, which is even cooler.
He did have Mas Amedda as his Grand Vizier who is Chagrian. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Chagrian (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Chagrian)
This is in the new canon because Amedda has appeared in a couple of the novels. Namely Tarkin, Rebel Rising, and A New Dawn. I can't remember for Rogue One: Catalyst but I think his only appearence in that novel was during the Republic when Operation Stardust was starting up.
Quote from: Aglondir on June 01, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
Is this canon? I don't see any evidence if it in the movies, other than the death star officers were all human. But we didn't see that many of them, and it might have been for budgetary reasons more than story. On the other hand, we see the Emperor has non-human advisors in ROTJ and the prequels. Perhaps he is secretly racist? Yet he took a non-human as his apprentice.
The "Empire was racist" trope probably got it's start in the WEG's books in the 90's.
Quote from: Aglondir on June 02, 2021, 01:03:33 PM
I was wrong about Palpatine's advisors in ROTJ being non-human. I thought they were some sort of close-to-human aliens, but Wookiepedia says they are human dark side adepts. Now I'm running with the reason why they look "alien" is that that they are consumed by the Dark Side, which is even cooler.
Yeah, I don't buy the budget reason. In the original series, they chose to spend a ton on aliens in other places like Mos Eisley and Cloud City and among the bounty hunters and so forth, but none on aliens in the Death Stars and among other Imperial troops. There was clearly an intentional choice to have the imperials be more uniformly human. Maybe they didn't think through the reasons behind it, but it was a clear feature on-screen. The EU generally interpreted this as bias or xenophobia. There could be an alternate explanation, but it was a chosen feature in the canon movies.
Quote from: jhkim on June 02, 2021, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on June 01, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
Is this canon? I don't see any evidence if it in the movies, other than the death star officers were all human. But we didn't see that many of them, and it might have been for budgetary reasons more than story. On the other hand, we see the Emperor has non-human advisors in ROTJ and the prequels. Perhaps he is secretly racist? Yet he took a non-human as his apprentice.
The "Empire was racist" trope probably got it's start in the WEG's books in the 90's.
Quote from: Aglondir on June 02, 2021, 01:03:33 PM
I was wrong about Palpatine's advisors in ROTJ being non-human. I thought they were some sort of close-to-human aliens, but Wookiepedia says they are human dark side adepts. Now I'm running with the reason why they look "alien" is that that they are consumed by the Dark Side, which is even cooler.
Yeah, I don't buy the budget reason. In the original series, they chose to spend a ton on aliens in other places like Mos Eisley and Cloud City and among the bounty hunters and so forth, but none on aliens in the Death Stars and among other Imperial troops. There was clearly an intentional choice to have the imperials be more uniformly human. Maybe they didn't think through the reasons behind it, but it was a clear feature on-screen. The EU generally interpreted this as bias or xenophobia. There could be an alternate explanation, but it was a chosen feature in the canon movies.
I would argue it again was a budget reason in the movies, especially the first one, to have almost all humans in the Empire. Lucas had a 10 million dollar budget to make Star Wars. Make up and costumes cost money. It is MUCH easier to have most of your expendable deaths be humans from the point of cost. So the cost of gear is IMO the best absolute reason to make a case for the empire having mostly humans in the military, because it sure as heck was cheaper for George to do it that way.
I think that every single officer we see throughout the original trilogy is a white human man with an English accent. All of the humans with American accents (and there are plenty of those) are in the Rebellion. I strongly suspect that is not by accident.
Quote from: igor on June 02, 2021, 03:44:09 PM
I think that every single officer we see throughout the original trilogy is a white human man with an English accent. All of the humans with American accents (and there are plenty of those) are in the Rebellion. I strongly suspect that is not by accident.
Well, didnt they film a great deal of it in the UK? I know they did get a bunch of UK talent to be in it. I honestly think people may assign more meaning than Lucas intended to the first couple of movies. The Studio fights and constant editing he had to do to make Star wars be what it was is pretty epic. After seeing what George can do with almost unlimited budget and creative power (the second set of movies) I am not sure he had too many intentional ideas in the first set of movies; because it sure looked like when he could do whatever he wanted to do, he was fucking all over the place with some of the worst ideas I could imagine (... metaclorians.....).
Quote from: oggsmash on June 02, 2021, 03:31:54 PM
I would argue it again was a budget reason in the movies, especially the first one, to have almost all humans in the Empire. Lucas had a 10 million dollar budget to make Star Wars. Make up and costumes cost money. It is MUCH easier to have most of your expendable deaths be humans from the point of cost. So the cost of gear is IMO the best absolute reason to make a case for the empire having mostly humans in the military, because it sure as heck was cheaper for George to do it that way.
That's an argument that there should have been few aliens in general. But that's not true. There *were* a bunch of aliens in the first movie as well as in the two sequels. But they weren't evenly spread around. In the first movie, he chose to have lots of aliens in Mos Eisley, and none on the Death Star. That remained a consistent pattern in the movies after that.
Quote from: jhkim on June 02, 2021, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 02, 2021, 03:31:54 PM
I would argue it again was a budget reason in the movies, especially the first one, to have almost all humans in the Empire. Lucas had a 10 million dollar budget to make Star Wars. Make up and costumes cost money. It is MUCH easier to have most of your expendable deaths be humans from the point of cost. So the cost of gear is IMO the best absolute reason to make a case for the empire having mostly humans in the military, because it sure as heck was cheaper for George to do it that way.
That's an argument that there should have been few aliens in general. But that's not true. There *were* a bunch of aliens in the first movie as well as in the two sequels. But they weren't evenly spread around. In the first movie, he chose to have lots of aliens in Mos Eisley, and none on the Death Star. That remained a consistent pattern in the movies after that.
There were not "alot" of aliens, they were very concentrated in specific sets, sets that were by comparison, quite small, quite dark, and quite tight. Compared with numbers of storm troopers and empire "employees" there are a TINY fraction of the people on screen. I also suspect Storm troopers got recycled a whole lot. There are few aliens in general in the first movie. By comparison. The budget was 10 million dollars. I did not mention the other two movies, for a reason, he had a much bigger budget due to success.
Quote from: igor on June 02, 2021, 03:44:09 PM
I think that every single officer we see throughout the original trilogy is a white human man with an English accent. All of the humans with American accents (and there are plenty of those) are in the Rebellion. I strongly suspect that is not by accident.
Well, that's because the British are inherently terrifying villains :D
Quote
Well, didnt they film a great deal of it in the UK?
Sure, but it also happens in all of the bits that weren't filmed there. The beginning of The Empire Strikes Back was filmed in Norway and those scenes also have the Rebellion speaking American English and the Empire speaking British English.
Quote from: igor on June 02, 2021, 04:02:38 PM
Quote
Well, didnt they film a great deal of it in the UK?
Sure, but it also happens in all of the bits that weren't filmed there. The beginning of The Empire Strikes Back was filmed in Norway and those scenes also have the Rebellion speaking American English and the Empire speaking British English.
I know, I think by then Lucas has decided he might as well go with a frame that had formed organically. Of course him being American could have figured into that choice. Just given the backstory on how the first movie was made, I am not sure how many initial decisions were the fruits of creativity or pragmatism. I am sure Jar Jar Abrams would have preferred the first order to all have german accents.
Quote from: jhkim on June 02, 2021, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 02, 2021, 03:31:54 PM
I would argue it again was a budget reason in the movies, especially the first one, to have almost all humans in the Empire. Lucas had a 10 million dollar budget to make Star Wars. Make up and costumes cost money. It is MUCH easier to have most of your expendable deaths be humans from the point of cost. So the cost of gear is IMO the best absolute reason to make a case for the empire having mostly humans in the military, because it sure as heck was cheaper for George to do it that way.
That's an argument that there should have been few aliens in general. But that's not true. There *were* a bunch of aliens in the first movie as well as in the two sequels. But they weren't evenly spread around. In the first movie, he chose to have lots of aliens in Mos Eisley, and none on the Death Star. That remained a consistent pattern in the movies after that.
In a smoky, dark environment where any zippers or puppeteers could be easily concealed.
Compare to having aliens in the harsh lit Empire ships, and making alien Stormtrooper suits .
Sounds like budgetary concerns to me.
If it matters the canon entry for COMPNOR on Wookiepedia includes this:
"COMPNOR supported the state-sponsored xenophobia and humanocentric policies rampant within the Empire"
Again this was 100% part of WEG Imperial Sourcebook. Still not sure how canon this is because its been a few years since I read either Tarkin or Catalyst.
Quote from: jhkim on June 02, 2021, 03:54:28 PM
That's an argument that there should have been few aliens in general. But that's not true. There *were* a bunch of aliens in the first movie as well as in the two sequels. But they weren't evenly spread around. In the first movie, he chose to have lots of aliens in Mos Eisley, and none on the Death Star. That remained a consistent pattern in the movies after that.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 02, 2021, 03:57:48 PM
There were not "alot" of aliens, they were very concentrated in specific sets, sets that were by comparison, quite small, quite dark, and quite tight. Compared with numbers of storm troopers and empire "employees" there are a TINY fraction of the people on screen. I also suspect Storm troopers got recycled a whole lot. There are few aliens in general in the first movie. By comparison. The budget was 10 million dollars. I did not mention the other two movies, for a reason, he had a much bigger budget due to success.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 02, 2021, 04:36:23 PM
In a smoky, dark environment where any zippers or puppeteers could be easily concealed.
Compare to having aliens in the harsh lit Empire ships, and making alien Stormtrooper suits .
Sounds like budgetary concerns to me.
The Death Star had a number of dimly lit control rooms, and it also had a wider space in many points - making it easy to have some aliens in the distant background and/or partially obstructed by control panels or other equipment. It would be easy to put an alien with a puppeteer behind one of the control panels or in one of the bays. Also, Imperial aliens could reasonably be wearing helmets, requiring just a bit of hand prosthetics and/or neck paint. In any case, the dim lighting was a choice -- he could easily have chosen for more of the Death Star to have dim lighting like the control rooms, and/or chosen for more of Mos Eisley to have bright lighting.
He instead concentrated all his aliens into the bar scene as well as a number of outdoor scenes on Tatooine.
I suspect he felt it fit more with the aesthetic of the Empire for them to be less diverse and more regimented and uniform. That is a deliberate choice, and it has consequences for the fictional world.
There was the dianoga trashman on the Death Star. Sure, some of the real racists call him a monster, but that job was putting his 657 kids through school.
Quote from: jhkim on June 02, 2021, 04:52:00 PM
Quote from: jhkim on June 02, 2021, 03:54:28 PM
That's an argument that there should have been few aliens in general. But that's not true. There *were* a bunch of aliens in the first movie as well as in the two sequels. But they weren't evenly spread around. In the first movie, he chose to have lots of aliens in Mos Eisley, and none on the Death Star. That remained a consistent pattern in the movies after that.
Quote from: oggsmash on June 02, 2021, 03:57:48 PM
There were not "alot" of aliens, they were very concentrated in specific sets, sets that were by comparison, quite small, quite dark, and quite tight. Compared with numbers of storm troopers and empire "employees" there are a TINY fraction of the people on screen. I also suspect Storm troopers got recycled a whole lot. There are few aliens in general in the first movie. By comparison. The budget was 10 million dollars. I did not mention the other two movies, for a reason, he had a much bigger budget due to success.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 02, 2021, 04:36:23 PM
In a smoky, dark environment where any zippers or puppeteers could be easily concealed.
Compare to having aliens in the harsh lit Empire ships, and making alien Stormtrooper suits .
Sounds like budgetary concerns to me.
The Death Star had a number of dimly lit control rooms, and it also had a wider space in many points - making it easy to have some aliens in the distant background and/or partially obstructed by control panels or other equipment. It would be easy to put an alien with a puppeteer behind one of the control panels or in one of the bays. Also, Imperial aliens could reasonably be wearing helmets, requiring just a bit of hand prosthetics and/or neck paint. In any case, the dim lighting was a choice -- he could easily have chosen for more of the Death Star to have dim lighting like the control rooms, and/or chosen for more of Mos Eisley to have bright lighting.
He instead concentrated all his aliens into the bar scene as well as a number of outdoor scenes on Tatooine.
I suspect he felt it fit more with the aesthetic of the Empire for them to be less diverse and more regimented and uniform. That is a deliberate choice, and it has consequences for the fictional world.
The Empire asthetic being regimented and uniform I can agree with. I felt that was the intent behind the Stormtroopers being clones, and in my head cannon they were never non-clone recruits for that reason. But I also think that bugetary reasons played into it. If GL had come out of the gate with a gozillion Lucasbucks, maybe another alien species could have served as the template for the Stormtrooper clones. But as I type that out, I don't think so. In the end, Star Wars is a drama about human characters. And so they're at the center of things. I just don't want to dismiss budget concerns, especially for the first film where Lucas still had to answer to somebody for the bucks he was spending.
I'm sure I read that Lucas originally did want alien Stormtroopers, but the budget for them wouldn't stretch (among other logistical issues) so they all ended up in human-sized uniforms.
The Empire being xenophobic was pushed a lot more in the EU (along with, apparently, being sexist but I think that only ever came up with Daala?) but it fit with the Evil Empire being Evil. Nu!Canon it's definitely written as outright xenophobic, but not sexist.
The Fel Empire down the line did allow aliens to enlist, but obviously that's well beyond Galactic Civil War as a timeframe.
Late to this.
But depending on sources. Yes there were alien stormtroopers. They featured in one of the conics for example. Though have no clue where that fits.
The idea that Chewbacca didnt get a medal because the rebellion is racist is yet another woke cult hallucination.
The Empire was not xenophobic in the normal sense. Sith just tend to push anything that breeds hatred and distrust that they can feed off of or get more recruits from. So they populate the empires upper echelons and soldiers primarily with humans and then sit back and watch the fun. While likely on the sly feeding the hatred aliens have for humans. Because of course. That and Sith tend to be nucleus' that attract evil and weak willed people. You can pretty much bet that any non-human sith were doing the same in reverse wherever they had a foothold and control.
Way back one idea for why the empire has so few aliens in its staff is that aliens tend to more force/dark side resistant more often than humans.
Quote from: Omega on June 03, 2021, 07:31:45 AM
Late to this.
But depending on sources. Yes there were alien stormtroopers. They featured in one of the conics for example. Though have no clue where that fits.
The idea that Chewbacca didnt get a medal because the rebellion is racist is yet another woke cult hallucination.
The Empire was not xenophobic in the normal sense. Sith just tend to push anything that breeds hatred and distrust that they can feed off of or get more recruits from. So they populate the empires upper echelons and soldiers primarily with humans and then sit back and watch the fun. While likely on the sly feeding the hatred aliens have for humans. Because of course. That and Sith tend to be nucleus' that attract evil and weak willed people. You can pretty much bet that any non-human sith were doing the same in reverse wherever they had a foothold and control.
Way back one idea for why the empire has so few aliens in its staff is that aliens tend to more force/dark side resistant more often than humans.
This sums up my view on it perfectly. Thank you. :)
Quote from: Premier on June 01, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on June 01, 2021, 05:33:49 PMIt was earlier than that. I remember reading from authoritative sources back in the 80s that the reason Chewbacca didn't get a medals with the others was that even the Alliance had racism against non-humans, and they're a lot more tolerant than the Empire.
I don't know what you consider "authoritative sources", but the official in-universe explanation actually is (and AFAIK always has been) that Wookiee culture just doesn't care about awards, medals and decorations, and there was a separate Wookiee-appropriate ceremony later on. In terms of movie-making decisions, it's probably because the size difference between Carrie Fisher and Peter Mayhew would have made any solution look a bit ridiculous and would have harmed the emotional impact of the scene. Bathos was not yet the cinematographic cancer it is today back in '77.
I don't actually remember the source - that was a few decades ago. I though it might be the caption on one of my McQuarrie prints, but no, the odd thing there was that it showed that the original plan was for Obi-Wan to live. Maybe Splinter of the Mind's Eye? It was unequivocally stated in the Zahn books, but those were quite a bit later.
Its been said, but the old EU canon, no there would not be non-human stormtroopers, while the empire had non-human agents and operatives, they were rare in the military and were often hidden from public view. In the EU Period, however, your idea wouldn't work for stormtroopers anyway; imperial intelligence of the imperial navy would be better fits.
The New Disney Canon--couldn't tell you. I think the new trilogy is generally inferior to the EU--Mara Jade was far more cool than Rey, the changes in the force (I prefer Lucas's gnostic model, which views the darkside's existence as imbalance to the dragonlance idea), changes in lightspeed, etc, so I didn't pay much attention to the novels until the Mandalorian sort of revived my interest in the series, but I don't know what they have done with this aspect the EU's presentation of the Empire.
Quote from: Toran Ironfinder on June 07, 2021, 02:21:34 AMI think the new trilogy is generally inferior to the EU--Mara Jade was far more cool than Rey, the changes in the force (I prefer Lucas's gnostic model, which views the darkside's existence as imbalance to the dragonlance idea), changes in lightspeed, etc, so I didn't pay much attention to the novels until the Mandalorian sort of revived my interest in the series, but I don't know what they have done with this aspect the EU's presentation of the Empire.
Oh yeah. I was vastly disappointed that episodes 7-9 were not just adaptations of the Zahn books. They're so much better than anything Disney has come up with. I hope someday to see such an adaptation.
Quote from: Mishihari on June 07, 2021, 09:36:36 PM
Quote from: Toran Ironfinder on June 07, 2021, 02:21:34 AMI think the new trilogy is generally inferior to the EU--Mara Jade was far more cool than Rey, the changes in the force (I prefer Lucas's gnostic model, which views the darkside's existence as imbalance to the dragonlance idea), changes in lightspeed, etc, so I didn't pay much attention to the novels until the Mandalorian sort of revived my interest in the series, but I don't know what they have done with this aspect the EU's presentation of the Empire.
Oh yeah. I was vastly disappointed that episodes 7-9 were not just adaptations of the Zahn books. They're so much better than anything Disney has come up with. I hope someday to see such an adaptation.
If that raging cunt Kennedy gets her inflated ego out of the fucking way then Thrawn is what Filoni and Favreau are working towards. Filoni's treatment of Thrawn in Star Wars Rebels was very well done and what seems to be happening in Bad Batch and the end point of a cloned Palpatine suggests that C'Baoth could be on tap for the TV shows. I actually vastly prefer 20+ hours of TV building up to that Trilogy than just a standalone 3 movies that deal with it.
Quote from: Mishihari on June 07, 2021, 09:36:36 PM
Quote from: Toran Ironfinder on June 07, 2021, 02:21:34 AMI think the new trilogy is generally inferior to the EU--Mara Jade was far more cool than Rey, the changes in the force (I prefer Lucas's gnostic model, which views the darkside's existence as imbalance to the dragonlance idea), changes in lightspeed, etc, so I didn't pay much attention to the novels until the Mandalorian sort of revived my interest in the series, but I don't know what they have done with this aspect the EU's presentation of the Empire.
Oh yeah. I was vastly disappointed that episodes 7-9 were not just adaptations of the Zahn books. They're so much better than anything Disney has come up with. I hope someday to see such an adaptation.
I would have just cut off the EU to a pre-Vong invasion state, myself, that ead my original expectation. If I ever run a new campaign it may be Mashup of the two in certain respects, maintaining Lucas's view of the force, but also the events of the Mandalorian. Rebels it seems tovme has opened up the doors to a star wars multiverse, which gives me ideas.
Star Wars Rebels had an episode where Ezra Bridger infiltrated the Imperial cadet training course on Lothal. All of the cadets there were human. There was also an episode where Sabine Wren infiltrated the tie fighter pilot corps to help Wedge Antilles defect, but I don't think we saw any nonhumans there either. I bring it up just because Star Wars Rebels is officially canon.
If you want nonhuman Stormtroopers, though, I can suggest a way to handle it. Simply say that the Empire doesn't typically station troops on their own homeworlds, lest their hometown sympathies make them susceptible to bribes and looking the other way. Thus, the species makeup of the Stormtroopers doesn't tend to match the locals. That would explain why we only see human troopers on worlds where humans are a minority: these guys are from somewhere else.
If you go to a world where humans are the majority population, you might well see a troop of nonhuman stormtroopers stationed there. I would suggest that nonhuman stormtroopers would be organized into segregated brigades, in order to simplify logistics and improve morale. Much easier to have units where every member can wear the same uniforms, and eat the same food.
I'd go the other way and keep it like Clones but without clones just as Tarkin wanted. If you have to make 15 different body shapes of Stormtrooper armor you increase your costs. Note that isn't functional like the difference between Storm/Desert/Forest/Snow etc. This is just that an alien species doesn't fit. You're 2 inches too short or 2 inches too tall (but not tall enough for Death Trooper)? Sorry you're assigned to standard army. It's just a logistics thing.
If you are a species that fits the narrow specifications of Stormtrooper body shape then congrats you're a Stormtrooper!