OK. I'm trying out an idea for a 'spiked chain' that isn't stupid. Here is my attempt.
Star Hammer (Exotic, two handed)
The star hammer is a spiked ball on a length of chain.
25 gp, 1d6 (Small), 2d4 (Medium) ×2, 5 lb., Bludgeoning and Piercing.
A star hammer has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.
You can make trip attacks with the chain. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped.
When using a star hammer, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).
Star Hammer (Exotic, two handed)
The star hammer is a spiked ball on a length of chain.
25 gp, 1d4 (Small), 1d6 (Medium) Critical 20 x2, 5 lb., Bludgeoning and Piercing.
A star hammer has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.
The Star Hammer adds +2 to all Trip and Disarm checks against enemies.
It also gains a +4 bonus to resist an opponent's Sunder attempt.
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I would drop the part about avoiding an opponent's trip by dropping the weapon. It is too many rules for a single weapon and it assumes there is only one way to trip a person.
I also lowered the damage a little. I think the point of the weapon is to gain reach and perform combat maneuvers, not deal better damage than a long sword.
I dunno, guys. Have a look at some of the genuine medieval spiked flail designs. There's a pretty good reason why the combined length of the chain and head of the flail are never longer than the handle. If you're trying to come up with a design that isn't "stupid"...
!i!
Quote from: Ian Absentia;342635I dunno, guys. Have a look at some of the genuine medieval spiked flail designs. There's a pretty good reason why the combined length of the chain and head of the flail are never longer than the handle. If you're trying to come up with a design that isn't "stupid"...
!i!
I don't know any experts on archaic flail combat, sense everything that is known about the 10-12th centuries can be boxed up and sat on a desk, but I have seen quite a few dungeons and dragons characters that think it is perfectly natural to fight with paired two-handed swords.
I guess anything is possible if you have the motivation.
The one constant with almost all historical weapon-flails: The head+chain must be shorter than the handle. That's a matter of survival.
Now, if you have a dervish-like group... the sport-hammer, spiked up, would make a decent opening volley, especially if it is also a greade....
This *is* a dangerous weapon. Which is why it's exotic. It's based on a meteor hammer, a real world weapon. If you want, drop the spikes, make it a purely Bludgeoning weapon and you would lower the risk.
Just for reference, the effectiveness of spikes, even blunt ones, is quite impressive.
I once saw dropped the Oerthan Constable's Mace, Snowflake, into a pickup bed. Snowflake is a 3" diameter, 3" long brass head, with 4" long, 1/2" to 1" diameter spikes, arrayed to form a six-armed star with a thrusting point, on a 2' long, 1.5" diameter handle. It was heavy but wieldable. It dropped 2', then punched through a then-new pickup truck bed of steel, and buried two side points and the thrusting point, and dented the frame.
I've also see snowflake tested on a helm. 12ga UC440 steel spun dome bascinet. The beastly thing punched a 3/4" diameter hole in the side with a decent swing, and a 1" dent with full 1" hole in the top.
Dropped 2' onto a haunch of moose, it cracked the thighbone with a graze, burying 3 spikes into the flesh.
Now, it's a hefty weapon; about 2x the mass of a typical steel-spike-head mace (and it's DAMNED heavy) but modeled after a historical mace made entirely of steel.
Spikes make plate and chain fail. The actual tip of each spike wasn't quite flat; a 1/4" tall 1/2" diameter cone formed the last 1/4" of the spikes. But it's absolutely brutal. It will open rivetted chain, pierce 16oz leather, pierce and deform steel. A lighter steel-spike mace will do the same, just not quite as well, but will also have a sharper point, and need less energy to penetrate and break bones, rip muscle, and bend armor in interesting and painful ways.
A smooth ball on chain can deform a helm easily enough (a buddy did destructive testing with a 5# steel ball on a 1' chain, and with a 2' haft). With a bucket of hard plastic over a wooden pell, and the helm over that, he had to work the helm and bucket off after only a few hits; the pell (of spruce) was damaged inside. Adding that 3' to 3' of arm, you're looking at a 6' reach, and adding a 2' step, 8' reasonable reach from ready. Adding spikes would have made it incredibly deadly, but also nigh impossible to carry safely.
Quote from: aramis;342674Just for reference, the effectiveness of spikes, even blunt ones, is quite impressive.
I once saw dropped the Oerthan Constable's Mace, Snowflake, into a pickup bed. Snowflake is a 3" diameter, 3" long brass head, with 4" long, 1/2" to 1" diameter spikes, arrayed to form a six-armed star with a thrusting point, on a 2' long, 1.5" diameter handle. It was heavy but wieldable. It dropped 2', then punched through a then-new pickup truck bed of steel, and buried two side points and the thrusting point, and dented the frame.
I've also see snowflake tested on a helm. 12ga UC440 steel spun dome bascinet. The beastly thing punched a 3/4" diameter hole in the side with a decent swing, and a 1" dent with full 1" hole in the top.
Dropped 2' onto a haunch of moose, it cracked the thighbone with a graze, burying 3 spikes into the flesh.
Now, it's a hefty weapon; about 2x the mass of a typical steel-spike-head mace (and it's DAMNED heavy) but modeled after a historical mace made entirely of steel.
Spikes make plate and chain fail. The actual tip of each spike wasn't quite flat; a 1/4" tall 1/2" diameter cone formed the last 1/4" of the spikes. But it's absolutely brutal. It will open rivetted chain, pierce 16oz leather, pierce and deform steel. A lighter steel-spike mace will do the same, just not quite as well, but will also have a sharper point, and need less energy to penetrate and break bones, rip muscle, and bend armor in interesting and painful ways.
A smooth ball on chain can deform a helm easily enough (a buddy did destructive testing with a 5# steel ball on a 1' chain, and with a 2' haft). With a bucket of hard plastic over a wooden pell, and the helm over that, he had to work the helm and bucket off after only a few hits; the pell (of spruce) was damaged inside. Adding that 3' to 3' of arm, you're looking at a 6' reach, and adding a 2' step, 8' reasonable reach from ready. Adding spikes would have made it incredibly deadly, but also nigh impossible to carry safely.
That's why the gods made lackeys, let them carry it. :)
Yeah, a point, even a fairly dull point really focuses all the energy.
Though I figure you'd just carry the thing hanging in your hand most often. Or in a box for long term travel. Maybe a 'sheath' made of light wood and leather... coil the chain over your shoulder...
Quote from: aramis;342659The one constant with almost all historical weapon-flails: The head+chain must be shorter than the handle. That's a matter of survival.
Well I'm by no means an expert. So I dont know the appropriate length for chain. But my understanding of how a "Ball and chain" is supposed to be used. Is that you are to strike the end of the shaft the chain is attached to against the shield or body of the target. The chain wraps around the sheild to strike the target. Negating the protection of the shield. Or in the case of the target lacking a shield it strikes them in the back. Just some food for thought.
Why did I imagine that by the title, this was going to be some really awesome sci-fi campaign? Or a thread about using WFRP rules in a sci-fi setting?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;342951Why did I imagine that by the title, this was going to be some really awesome sci-fi campaign? Or a thread about using WFRP rules in a sci-fi setting?
RPGPundit
This conversation isn't too bad. You know it is against policy to talk about Katanas, at all, on the WOTC Forums because nerds get fucking hot talking about what makes a better sword?