TheRPGSite

So what's your opinion?  Looking for the best in:
Creating your own Starships
Modifying existing Starships
Having PC crew able to use skills to effect in Starship travel, maintenance, and combat. (ie. not completely separate RPG and Starship Combat Boardgame).

If you're gonna pick a game with 73 different possible variations, like Traveller, be specific. :D

In large part it depends upon how much complexity you're looking for.

I know that I've played several sci-fi RPGs which looked to have interesting starship rules, but we totally avoided the starship rules because they were an entirely different system which was more complex than the infantry level rules and it wasn't worth learning.

I'd prefer something which followed the KISS rules so that it felt like you were in a cool space battle, but it went quick and got you back to the normal action ASAP.

Have you considered adapting a pirate, swashbuckling, heavily nautical-themed game?

Quote from: Harlock;976094Have you considered adapting a pirate, swashbuckling, heavily nautical-themed game?

It's a friend looking for a system.  I doubt he's looking at adapting seafaring RPGs, too much additional content not contained in the system to worry about.  He's not the type to balk from adapting but once you get to "writing half of it" that's more than he's looking for at the moment.

Quote from: CRKrueger;976096It's a friend looking for a system.  I doubt he's looking at adapting seafaring RPGs, too much additional content not contained in the system to worry about.  He's not the type to balk from adapting but once you get to "writing half of it" that's more than he's looking for at the moment.

I get that. Wish him luck, and I am kind of curious myself.

I don't know about the best but the most fun I've had has been using the Star Trek Tactical Combat Simulator with the FASA Trek RPG. It integrated well with the role-playing and had something for the different characters to do, and with the variety of starships and their capabilities there was a nice range of tactics to employ.

I'm still waiting for someone to incorporate the 3rd dimension into starship combat. All I've seen so far play out like surface fleet battles. Granted, I haven't played a huge number as most sci fi gaming I do has ship-to-ship action at a minimum.

Quote from: Dumarest;976101I don't know about the best but the most fun I've had has been using the Star Trek Tactical Combat Simulator with the FASA Trek RPG. It integrated well with the role-playing and had something for the different characters to do, and with the variety of starships and their capabilities there was a nice range of tactics to employ.

I'm still waiting for someone to incorporate the 3rd dimension into starship combat. All I've seen so far play out like surface fleet battles. Granted, I haven't played a huge number as most sci fi gaming I do has ship-to-ship action at a minimum.

That's definitely a favorite of his.  Modifying FASA Trek technology into something less Trek-Specific with more varied energy weapons might be the ticket.  Still interested on everyone's favorite, especially if they nominate something I have little experience with, like Space Opera.

Spacemaster Privateers is the best I've found.  Okay, hear me out it's got its problems, editing and playtesting mainly.  So here's what works it gives you tools to design vehicles, it does the mass and volume thing but armor is done with a couple charts so you don't have to push that scary cube root button.  The focus is on the things you need.  How big is it?  How much crew does it need?  How much damage can it soak up?  What weapons does it have?  The construction armor type is the material the hull is made from and is the value used on the attack tables.  There's something special about using a mark 100 blaster to eradicate your target.  You do need to download the corrected attack tables from the ICE vault, they look the same but work much better in practice.  Anyhow thicker armor increases the vehicle's hit points.  There's a couple options for integrating vehicle combat with personal combat depending on how badly you want to have laser pistols shoot down cruisers.

A attack's modifiers are Skill + HUD + Weapon MK# - Vehicle Defense Bonus (including shields).  The game runs on a narrative style chase mechanic but there is some discussion of how to implement the Silent Death movement system in Future Law but it's not a big deal because performance is given in terms of real world numbers, that's right Gs of acceleration, and kilometers per hour.  No wishy washy range bands or fuzzy speed ratings.  There are of course vehicle maneuver and repair tables as well as tables for vehicle verses squad and squad verses vehicle combat.  What can I say, it's a game I love.

It's not hard to implement with any d% or even d20 system and it's one thin little book.

Quote from: David Johansen;976115Spacemaster Privateers is the best I've found.  Okay, hear me out it's got its problems, editing and playtesting mainly.  So here's what works it gives you tools to design vehicles, it does the mass and volume thing but armor is done with a couple charts so you don't have to push that scary cube root button.  The focus is on the things you need.  How big is it?  How much crew does it need?  How much damage can it soak up?  What weapons does it have?  The construction armor type is the material the hull is made from and is the value used on the attack tables.  There's something special about using a mark 100 blaster to eradicate your target.  You do need to download the corrected attack tables from the ICE vault, they look the same but work much better in practice.  Anyhow thicker armor increases the vehicle's hit points.  There's a couple options for integrating vehicle combat with personal combat depending on how badly you want to have laser pistols shoot down cruisers.

A attack's modifiers are Skill + HUD + Weapon MK# - Vehicle Defense Bonus (including shields).  The game runs on a narrative style chase mechanic but there is some discussion of how to implement the Silent Death movement system in Future Law but it's not a big deal because performance is given in terms of real world numbers, that's right Gs of acceleration, and kilometers per hour.  No wishy washy range bands or fuzzy speed ratings.  There are of course vehicle maneuver and repair tables as well as tables for vehicle verses squad and squad verses vehicle combat.  What can I say, it's a game I love.

It's not hard to implement with any d% or even d20 system and it's one thin little book.

How does that compare to old Spacemaster?  Isn't old Spacemaster even easier to integrate with Silent Death or am I misremembering?

Maybe a GURPS Space/Spaceships variety? Each edition(s) had its own play style. I don't remember what kind of spacey skills GURPS let players use onboard for ship operations though.

Quote from: CRKrueger;976086So what's your opinion?  Looking for the best in:
Creating your own Starships
Modifying existing Starships
Having PC crew able to use skills to effect in Starship travel, maintenance, and combat. (ie. not completely separate RPG and Starship Combat Boardgame).

If you're gonna pick a game with 73 different possible variations, like Traveller, be specific. :D

It will be a tie between Classic Traveller, Mongoose Traveller 1e, d6 Star Wars Revised and Expanded and REUP, and Mekton Zeta (yes, you can do mecha spacecraft with it). Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Is there anything else extra that you or your friend are looking for with the system?

EDIT: Of those, I'd say d6 Star Wars R&E with the big advantage/disadvantage that it comes with all the baggage of Star Wars.

Hurumph...ahh...burp...erm....Traveller.....um....probably Mongoose. Ta-daaa!

For integrating space combat into the game and giving everyone a meaningful way to interact with the mechanics, and actually keeping them involved and interested, I haven't found a better game than Rogue Trader (the RPG, not 1st edition WH40K). Either Navigators or Astropaths (I can't recall which) aren't as well represented in the space combat as other classes, but it doesn't take too much effort to improve their options.

Unfortunately, there are other issues with the game make it a less attractive choice.

I have a low threshold for complexity and White Star is the first game I've found since d6 Star Wars with usable starship rules. There is a system for modifying ships. All characters modify the attack numbers, Pilot class pcs can midify most stats.

I've had a certain amount of fun with GUMSHOE's Ashen Stars for building and using a spaceship in space combat.

I've also had fun playing with Impulse Drive a PbtA game.

Quote from: CRKrueger;976086If you're gonna pick a game with 73 different possible variations, like Traveller, be specific. :D

Classic Traveller, and both editions of Mongoose Traveller.

If you are talking Starship Combat for RPGs nothing beats FASA Star Trek. But those three editions of Traveller are more usable for a various types of science fiction campaign.

Quote from: S'mon;976195I have a low threshold for complexity and White Star is the first game I've found since d6 Star Wars with usable starship rules. There is a system for modifying ships. All characters modify the attack numbers, Pilot class pcs can midify most stats.

I concur that White Star is pretty elegant but the PCs generally want to know a tad more about their ships.

Quote from: estar;976210I concur that White Star is pretty elegant but the PCs generally want to know a tad more about their ships.

I make up some shit I think will be fun. :D

Buck Rogers XXVc combined with Battlesystem. I used to run fleet vs fleet battles.

Quote from: CRKrueger;976117How does that compare to old Spacemaster?  Isn't old Spacemaster even easier to integrate with Silent Death or am I misremembering?

I'm not real familiar with Armored Assault and Star Strike but the focus is less on hex and counter play and more on maneuver rolls.  The design system for ships and other vehicles is completely integrated though there are a lot of editing and testing issues as I mentioned before.  I'm pretty sure the attack and critical tables are new.  I really like that there are tables for determining the cost of crews and squads based on skills.

Quote from: S'mon;976214I make up some shit I think will be fun. :D

I get where you are coming from. But pithy one-liners aside it not as clean cut as Gronan makes it. I had a fantasy version of this come up recently.

Situation: Players have enough gold and wanted to start trading, they have enough to organize a small caravan.
Session X+1: First trade run, make up shit on the fly and the players made a small profit.
Session X+2: The players want to know more about the region. They investigate the end result is that they get with a list of who wants what. At least a list their contacts think what each settlement wants. But for me now I had to create some economic rules to generate this stuff. Because there were two dozen places they could go to.
Session X+4: After an very successful adventure they have enough gold to buy a small trading ship. Again just having a list with skiff, small ship, large ship, wasn't going to cut it they wanted options. So I came up with some seafaring rules.


The thing is that saying just make up shit that is fun is all fine and dandy and utterly useless when it comes to specific individual groups. My group wasn't unreasonable or particularly demanding with their requests. They interested in being owners of a sailing ship and having adventures that way. So I need to come with something to be consistent and not just hand them the keys to a perpetual money making machine.

I started off using the Pilot Almana (http://columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=4002-PDF)c from Harn but that was way too detailed and the actual trade system a bit bland.  

I found the system from ACKS a bit too simplistic to answer all the questions the players were asking. So use it as a foundation to come up with this as a starting point (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx9oLF40m-b8ZmtVTUlPbHRNeTA/view?usp=sharing).

Yeah it is 15 digest pages but it answered all of the questions they were asking me at a level they were interested in. And it not perfect for one thing. Generating what available is not user friendly during a session. Nor I am 100% happy about the list of trade goods I copied from ACKS. So the tweaking continues.

As far White Star the starship rules work well for many types of campaign. But if the players are playing a bunch of Han Solo types and the campaign is more or less a sandbox with the player choosing where they go based on rumors and profit, then you going to need to supply the right amount of information to make the players feel like they making an informed choice.

In my experience Classic Traveller or either edition of Mongoose Traveller (or Traveller 20 to come to think of it) are about at the right level of complexity for this. Enough detail that players can figure out whether that the load of Widgets would sell better on Regina or Hoth. But not forcing them to drown in an economic simulation like GURPS Far Trader just to figure the choice between the two.

Quote from: estar;976220As far White Star the starship rules work well for many types of campaign. But if the players are playing a bunch of Han Solo types and the campaign is more or less a sandbox with the player choosing where they go based on rumors and profit, then you going to need to supply the right amount of information to make the players feel like they making an informed choice.

In my experience Classic Traveller or either edition of Mongoose Traveller (or Traveller 20 to come to think of it) are about at the right level of complexity for this. Enough detail that players can figure out whether that the load of Widgets would sell better on Regina or Hoth. But not forcing them to drown in an economic simulation like GURPS Far Trader just to figure the choice between the two.

Hmm, this could be an issue for me given I've only been running a couple weeks, the game setup ( http://smonstats.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/white-star-toshe-station.html?zx=4212f84b5b310d00 & thread at http://smonstats.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/white-star-toshe-station.html?zx=4212f84b5b310d00 ) is pretty sandboxy, and could turn into Han Solo does merchant spacing. My thinking is I can probably generate reasonable trading options on the fly using 3d6xd% base price, but I guess I may need to refer to Starter Traveller or The Minrothad Guilds for more in depth trading rules.
I was thinking more about the details of running the ships, I've just been making stuff up and pulling players back a bit if they get too technical, eg the recent Public Key Encryption for data thingummy one was pushing.

To date still hands down the best has been Star Frontiers. Rules for building more than warships. Easy system for swapping stuff. Build your own from the ground up even. Rules for running space businesses. The rules could be a little more robust on the business side. But it works as is. It also lacks a starsystem generation ruleset. So I used the great one from Universe.

Combat in it I also like as it cleaves closer to hard fiction in some ways than sci-fi. Distances are huge. Each hex in the wargame half is 10000 klm and rounds are 10 minutes long due to the scale. An earth size planet fits in a single hex. (Jupiter would be 9 hexs wide) Ships are towers and down is a result of thrust. No damn artificial gravity. Ships can and will coast in the direction of movement and there is some factoring of gravity into close planetary movement.

Runner up is Mekton Zeta Plus. Its really more a wargame than a RPG. But its got rules for building stuff from the ground up, weapons, vehicles, and with some creativity even other things. Its a bit lacking on the non-combat rules though. Like really lacking.

Another runner up is Universe. I liked the modular system it used. But it is nowhere as good as Star Frontiers. Where Universe really shines is its very robust starsystem generation system and the amazing 3d co-ordinate starmap the game came with. I just plugged Universes starsystem rules into Star Frontiers instead. Though Universe has a rather nice, though complex, chargen system.

I have been reading the Stars Without Numbers Beta (in my continuing quest to read or play as many starship and sailing ship rulesets as I can). Public Link from that other forum: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4qCWY8UnLrcUWk5UkVuNTVWeUk/view

I think I managed a better ship combat/maneuver turn-flow when I designed my Airship rules for Earthdawn 4th Edition (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?37161-Earthdawn-4E-Ship-and-Mass-Combat), but everything else in the book is solid OSR Sci Fi.

Quote from: S'mon;976225Hmm, this could be an issue for me given I've only been running a couple weeks, the game setup ( http://smonstats.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/white-star-toshe-station.html?zx=4212f84b5b310d00 & thread at http://smonstats.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/white-star-toshe-station.html?zx=4212f84b5b310d00 ) is pretty sandboxy, and could turn into Han Solo does merchant spacing. My thinking is I can probably generate reasonable trading options on the fly using 3d6xd% base price, but I guess I may need to refer to Starter Traveller or The Minrothad Guilds for more in depth trading rules.
I was thinking more about the details of running the ships, I've just been making stuff up and pulling players back a bit if they get too technical, eg the recent Public Key Encryption for data thingummy one was pushing.

I see that house rule document growing :D. What I recommend is look at the Cepheus Game Engine, a Traveller Clone as a starting. Mostly because it has a editable document here (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186894/Cepheus-Engine-System-Reference-Document). Mesh it into what you got posted and dial in the level of the detail the way you want it.

Quote from: estar;976220I found the system from ACKS a bit too simplistic to answer all the questions the players were asking. So use it as a foundation to come up with this as a starting point (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx9oLF40m-b8ZmtVTUlPbHRNeTA/view?usp=sharing).

Yeah it is 15 digest pages but it answered all of the questions they were asking me at a level they were interested in. And it not perfect for one thing. Generating what available is not user friendly during a session. Nor I am 100% happy about the list of trade goods I copied from ACKS. So the tweaking continues.

Oooo... nice!! Snagged that trading guide for OSR, Thank You!! ...and will reciprocate with an OSR guide of my own to ancient ships and galleys which I uploaded to Google Drive and made available as a free download here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B65-0hl0Ei4bc3U0bUNjVldMbTQ/view?usp=sharing

Also, if you happen to have any of those Inspiration Pad Pro .ipt generator files I mailed you a few years back, I could really use them as I am rebuilding all of my generators this year. Currently working on a 0D&D generator, and still replacing language, and other D&D generators as I happen to need them. Have a Github archive you can push to, pull, or download from, to get the generators I have rebuilt located here: https://github.com/GameDaddy2/IPP-Repository

Cheers!

Quote from: estar;976231I see that house rule document growing :D. What I recommend is look at the Cepheus Game Engine, a Traveller Clone as a starting. Mostly because it has a editable document here (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186894/Cepheus-Engine-System-Reference-Document). Mesh it into what you got posted and dial in the level of the detail the way you want it.

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll take a look.

Quote from: GameDaddy;976283Oooo... nice!! Snagged that trading guide for OSR, Thank You!! ...and will reciprocate with an OSR guide of my own to ancient ships and galleys which I uploaded to Google Drive and made available as a free download here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B65-0hl0Ei4bc3U0bUNjVldMbTQ/view?usp=sharing

Also, if you happen to have any of those Inspiration Pad Pro .ipt generator files I mailed you a few years back, I could really use them as I am rebuilding all of my generators this year. Currently working on a 0D&D generator, and still replacing language, and other D&D generators as I happen to need them. Have a Github archive you can push to, pull, or download from, to get the generators I have rebuilt located here: https://github.com/GameDaddy2/IPP-Repository

Cheers!

Nice!
You can download what I got here.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bx9oLF40m-b8cUF3MklnbTNKVFU?usp=sharing

All my recent work is in the Majestic Wilderlands RPG folder

Quote from: CRKrueger;976086So what's your opinion?  Looking for the best in:
Creating your own Starships
Modifying existing Starships
Having PC crew able to use skills to effect in Starship travel, maintenance, and combat. (ie. not completely separate RPG and Starship Combat Boardgame).

If you're gonna pick a game with 73 different possible variations, like Traveller, be specific. :D

I had some fun with Star Frontiers: Knighthawks, back in the day. Probably hard to find now.

Quote from: Nexus;976307I had some fun with Star Frontiers: Knighthawks, back in the day. Probably hard to find now.

Not hard at all...it's legally available as a free PDF online. I don't know the site but if you Google it, you should have no trouble finding it. Pretty much everything TSR made for Star Frontiers is there and legal.

Since I universally can't stand starship-creation rules, I don't really have anything to contribute here.

I've got pretty much all the FASA Trek, Star Frontiers, WEG SW and Spacemaster 2nd/Starstrike stuff in storage, I'll have to dig that out and let him compare.  Will have to dig out Universe too, forgot about those creation rules. Think I've got most of the key Traveller stuff in digital as well as SWN.  

Thanks all, I always like to check to see if I'm overlooking or missing something.

Have fun! :D

Quote from: RPGPundit;976794Since I universally can't stand starship-creation rules,

Why?

Quote from: RPGPundit;976794Since I universally can't stand starship-creation rules, I don't really have anything to contribute here.

These days I just stat them like monsters since they're basically constructs which may or may not have some form of sentience or intelligence. That's the route I'll go should I get a chance to run something like Ultramodern5.

In principle, I liked Star Hero's approach of treating starships like characters with variant options. This plays on the strength of the core game's flexibility, and meant that starship combat had a lot of overlap with personal combat. I like the 4th edition core rules the best, but the Star Hero adaptation for 4th ed had many problems.

Quote from: RPGPundit;976794Since I universally can't stand starship-creation rules, I don't really have anything to contribute here.

It's one of those rules which I think is really cool in theory, but it ends up being way too much work and still ends up with a hot mess. (terrible balance between option combinations etc.)

Quote from: RPGPundit;976794Since I universally can't stand starship-creation rules, I don't really have anything to contribute here.

And yet you posted. ;)

I will admit I have never actually designed a ship from scratch in Traveller and done the math. I just slap them together as needed or use some of the examples and premade ones with alterations as needed.

Quote from: Biscuitician;976834Why?

They're always focused on technical specs and details, often with point-buy construction systems. It's about as fun to me as making a 400-point character in GURPS or Shadowrun. Which is to say, not at all.

Quote from: RPGPundit;977252They're always focused on technical specs and details, often with point-buy construction systems. It's about as fun to me as making a 400-point character in GURPS or Shadowrun. Which is to say, not at all.

Agreed. I got tired of fiddling with massively detailed starship design systems and all the number crunching that goes with them a while ago. I'm currently working on a simplified system for writing up starships that doesn't offend my inner simulationist, and it's not easy. (I still want a certain level of detail, and internally consistent results.) So now I'm fiddling with massively detailed game design and all the number crunching that goes with it, instead. But yeah, a complete starship stat block should take no more than five or ten minutes to write up, start to finish.

Quote from: RPGPundit;977252They're always focused on technical specs and details, often with point-buy construction systems. It's about as fun to me as making a 400-point character in GURPS or Shadowrun. Which is to say, not at all.

Or the ships are given player character attributes like Strength, Endurance, Agility, Speed, Defense, Stealth, Range, and have similar-looking character sheets as the PC sheets. Rubbish.

Quote from: RPGPundit;976794Since I universally can't stand starship-creation rules, I don't really have anything to contribute here.

It was a point of contention in the latest version of Mongoose Traveller that they kept the starship creation system out of the core rules, and put them all in entirety into the High Guard book. Some complained, but in my experience, most casual Traveller groups don't actually give two figs about designing their own craft and are happy to take a pregenerated one 'off the shelf' - which is what the core book provides.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;977633It was a point of contention in the latest version of Mongoose Traveller that they kept the starship creation system out of the core rules, and put them all in entirety into the High Guard book. Some complained, but in my experience, most casual Traveller groups don't actually give two figs about designing their own craft and are happy to take a pregenerated one 'off the shelf' - which is what the core book provides.

Really? Not wanting to create one out of whole cloth - ok, that I can see, but the rules for creating starships also give you the rules for modifying them in most cases and I've never seen a group with a ship that didn't want to make some modifications, usually in stealth and speed to be able to avoid combat or disengage and run like hell.

Quote from: CRKrueger;977638Really? Not wanting to create one out of whole cloth - ok, that I can see, but the rules for creating starships also give you the rules for modifying them in most cases and I've never seen a group with a ship that didn't want to make some modifications, usually in stealth and speed to be able to avoid combat or disengage and run like hell.

Black Globe generators ftw

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;977446Or the ships are given player character attributes like Strength, Endurance, Agility, Speed, Defense, Stealth, Range, and have similar-looking character sheets as the PC sheets. Rubbish.

But of course. The starship needs a Strength score in case one of the PCs decides to grapple with it!

Quote from: CRKrueger;977638Really? Not wanting to create one out of whole cloth - ok, that I can see, but the rules for creating starships also give you the rules for modifying them in most cases and I've never seen a group with a ship that didn't want to make some modifications, usually in stealth and speed to be able to avoid combat or disengage and run like hell.

Augments, for sure...."What! We need to buy some guns for this ship?!".....etc. However, much of the time it's the case that people just pick the cheap scout or free trader because they don't want an expensive mortgage. After they've been playing a while, they usually end up just stealing a craft. Personally, I like designing spacecraft, but it's the sort of thing I do sitting down on my own, for the most part.

Well if I where him I'd look in to battletech while by default batlletech has A  baked in setting I see no reason you couldn't expand out the weapons and A few other things if you want.
And it would give him all the customization he could want on the ship building side.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;977446Or the ships are given player character attributes like Strength, Endurance, Agility, Speed, Defense, Stealth, Range, and have similar-looking character sheets as the PC sheets. Rubbish.

Yes, equally bad.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;977633It was a point of contention in the latest version of Mongoose Traveller that they kept the starship creation system out of the core rules, and put them all in entirety into the High Guard book. Some complained, but in my experience, most casual Traveller groups don't actually give two figs about designing their own craft and are happy to take a pregenerated one 'off the shelf' - which is what the core book provides.

Yeah, a good move.

The guys that complain that Traveller 2nd Edition's core book doesn't have starship construction rules in it, still end up using the Scout or the Free Trader from the core book after buying the High Guard book. This happens with all editions of Traveller, by the way. Classic Traveller players and their default 100-dton ships. They just like sounding smart, when mentioning that their RPG has starship construction rules. Rules they don't even use.

Ships don't have to be given the exact same stats as living characters, that's a pretty poor argument.

Having ships function like characters doesn't mean they are characters. I don't see a good argument against this.

In fact I don't see good arguments against starship rules presented thus far. The Fate fractal seems to be the way to go, or something like it. Even though the Cortex+ system is a bit convoluted, it deals with ships well in a similar fashion.

It makes sense for them to use the same mechanics with comparable stats to the PC's because it's simpler, rather than suddenly switching to a compeltely different system fo the sake of simulation, perhaps, when flying.

Quote from: Biscuitician;978630Ships don't have to be given the exact same stats as living characters, that's a pretty poor argument.

Having ships function like characters doesn't mean they are characters. I don't see a good argument against this.

In fact I don't see good arguments against starship rules presented thus far. The Fate fractal seems to be the way to go, or something like it. Even though the Cortex+ system is a bit convoluted, it deals with ships well in a similar fashion.

It makes sense for them to use the same mechanics with comparable stats to the PC's because it's simpler, rather than suddenly switching to a compeltely different system fo the sake of simulation, perhaps, when flying.

You're right, Starships should also wear capes when flying.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;978624The guys that complain that Traveller 2nd Edition's core book doesn't have starship construction rules in it, still end up using the Scout or the Free Trader from the core book after buying the High Guard book. This happens with all editions of Traveller, by the way. Classic Traveller players and their default 100-dton ships. They just like sounding smart, when mentioning that their RPG has starship construction rules. Rules they don't even use.

Oh, you'd be surprised. Of course, you'd have to engage in some Actual Play of Traveller and not just do podcasts about it.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;978652You're right, Starships should also wear capes when flying.

No idea what that means.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;976144Maybe a GURPS Space/Spaceships variety? Each edition(s) had its own play style. I don't remember what kind of spacey skills GURPS let players use onboard for ship operations though.

This is 3e knowledge, so it might be outdated. The Space rules are pretty abstract. Space combat is mostly comparing each ship's total firepower to the other ships total defense, using the ratio as a modifier to a roll on a chart, and seeing which compartment/component takes damage. Feels to me like a pretty unsatisfying combat but it does give the characters (especially with gunning, engineering, or tactics skills) something to do. The Spaceships/Vehicles rules are much more like playing giant characters with the defense and weapon damages multiplied by 10-100. Very much like...

Quote from: Krimson;976871These days I just stat them like monsters since they're basically constructs which may or may not have some form of sentience or intelligence. That's the route I'll go should I get a chance to run something like Ultramodern5.

Quote from: jhkim;976890In principle, I liked Star Hero's approach of treating starships like characters with variant options. This plays on the strength of the core game's flexibility, and meant that starship combat had a lot of overlap with personal combat. I like the 4th edition core rules the best, but the Star Hero adaptation for 4th ed had many problems.

...Like hero. Hero system vehicles are built just like characters. The problem is that the combats behave almost exactly like characters. That's fine for things like giant mechas or tanks or whatever, but not so good with planes and spacecraft. The rules don't line up well for adding benefit for maneuvering, for flanking, for having multiple opponents driving you or pressing you, etc. And of course the damage/DR system means you can have things like the fighter craft being literally irrelevant to the capital ships.