TheRPGSite

Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: The Traveller on January 05, 2014, 04:44:15 PM

Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: The Traveller on January 05, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
I've been reading up on King Solomon recently and it's fascinating stuff. Basically he used a magical ring (the Seal of Solomon) to control demons and make them work for him, building palaces and temples, retrieving virgins, helping him gad about the ancient middle east on a blazing throne, etc. He also sealed the 72 biggest ones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shax#Demons) in a brass vessel, or possibly kept the vessel handy for when he needed to compel a demon.

Are there any magic systems which emulate Solomonic magic, or would anyone have any thoughts on the best way to set one up?
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Phillip on January 05, 2014, 04:55:00 PM
The kind of thing you mention is the focus of the magic system in Chaosium's Stormbringer and later Elric! games.

Again, the central magical operations in Call of Cthulhu are summoning and binding various entities. It's more of a GM-created kind of thing there, though, as opposed to the systematic treatments in the Moorcock games.

The College of Greater Summonings in SPI's DragonQuest (deleted from the TSR edition), and the summonings in FGU's Chivalry & Sorcery, are inspired by purported magical texts such as the Lesser Key of Solomon.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: The Traveller on January 05, 2014, 05:05:59 PM
Nice. I'm looking for something that really captures that Solomonic flavour, there's some fairly outré/open demonology going on there, seemingly with the approval of the higher celestial powers, along with an elaborate tapestry of trappings and traditions. I'll check out Chivalry & Sorcery and DragonQuest.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: The Butcher on January 05, 2014, 05:08:20 PM
Quote from: Phillip;721017The kind of thing you mention is the focus of the magic system in Chaosium's Stormbringer and later Elric! games.

Bingo.

The last edition of Mongoose's Elric of Melniboné RPG (really a MRQII/Legend supplement) does a pretty good job of leaving the summoning system wide open for summoning Demons of all shapes and sizes, as well as beings of Law (the name escapes me). Very comprehensive and easily hacked into a Solomonic thingie.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Mr. Kent on January 06, 2014, 02:26:16 AM
The one I've actually experienced is Lamentations of the Flame Princess's famous 1st Level Summoning spell. As seen here. (http://summon.totalpartykill.ca/) Might be a little more hazardous than what you had in mind but it seems to fit the flavor to me.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Kaiu Keiichi on January 06, 2014, 05:00:10 PM
You should also check out the Nephilim RPG from Chaosium which has a fully hermetic/solomonaic summoning system. Mage: The Ascension can easily do it, with the various entities from Solomon's lore summonable as high astral umbrood. You should also look at the various editions of Ars Magica, which explores hermetic magic in detail.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: The Traveller on January 07, 2014, 01:16:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Kent;721133The one I've actually experienced is Lamentations of the Flame Princess's famous 1st Level Summoning spell. As seen here. (http://summon.totalpartykill.ca/) Might be a little more hazardous than what you had in mind but it seems to fit the flavor to me.
Brilliant, reminds me of the time I put rites for "summon lesser daemon", "control lesser daemon", and "summon greater daemon" into the spell book for the players.

What's especially interesting about Solomonic magic is that it deals with evil spirits put to good use - the entity in The Exorcist for example, while not the exact same mythology (Sumerian-Akkadian), was known as Pazuzu, which was sovereign in combatting disease and easing childbirth if dealt with properly.

Also interesting is the lack of overly complex rituals, the esoteric summoning circles normally associated with the practise appear to have been a renaissance era development. Solomon himself basically used his ring to do everything, so a Solomonic magician might only have a couple of spells and a giant list of demon and spirit names.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll be checking them out.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Omega on January 07, 2014, 02:49:41 AM
Palladium had the Diabolists who could summon thingies-from-beyond.

Probably the Magic system for Marvel Super Heroes falls very close to that as especially Doctor Strange dealt with supernatural enteties left and right both using and battling them.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: RPGPundit on January 09, 2014, 08:15:28 PM
What you're talking about in modern western Magick is termed "Goetia", and there will be rules for using the Goetia (in the style of 1910-era Edwardian ceremonial magicians) in the upcoming  Raiders of R'lyeh RPG.

RPGPundit
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: danskmacabre on January 10, 2014, 12:02:35 AM
+1 on Nephilin. It's got pretty much everything you need.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Saladman on January 10, 2014, 10:37:12 AM
Quote from: The Traveller;721481Brilliant, reminds me of the time I put rites for "summon lesser daemon", "control lesser daemon", and "summon greater daemon" into the spell book for the players.

I see what you did there.  :)
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Sigmund on January 10, 2014, 11:36:12 AM
Almost sounds like Sol's ring worked like the wands in Harry Potter. Perhaps a slightly modified Spirit Magic in RQ would work reasonably similarly. Also, totally find Dragonquest. It's still one of my fav FRPGs, and the more players the better :D I have two versions in print, both the 1e box set and the 2e consolidated rule book. I believe there's still a free 2e pdf floating around the net that integrates the never officially published Arcane Wisdom into it as "book 4". Each (including the pdf) an item I will never part with. Also tossing in another vote/suggestion for the Elric/Stormbringer games.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Sigmund on January 10, 2014, 11:55:32 AM
This site might help with DQ...

http://www.dragonquestfrontiers.com/
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Tyrrell on January 21, 2014, 01:52:45 PM
There is Solomonic magic in the Ars Magica book Cradle and Crescent. which is taken from folklore and fit into Ars Magica

There are also the Ars Goetia magic system in Realms of Power Infernal, which comes from a similar but more European folklore.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Louchavelli on January 21, 2014, 02:19:30 PM
What you are deeming as Solomonic magic, commonly refer to the Lesser Keys of Solomon.  As someone previously pointed it out, it tends to be used synonymously with Goetia.

Historically, the lesser keys were broken into multiple books, each one dealing with a specific topic.  Most involve the names of powerful demons and other spirits, that can be used to bind the spirit.  The books had other occult uses/knowledges.  It was believed that "keys" were literally the keys to creation.  Each key was a word of the creator, hence why it was uber strong.  The lesser keys of solomon is the more common tome.  But among occult circles there are rumors of the Greater Keys of solomon that allow even more miraculous actions.

The Witchcraft/Armageddon:  The end times settings from Eden Studios do a great job of converting the legendary keys into a useable format.  If you're looking for a good solomonic magic system or at the least a good starting point, I would try that setting.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Necrozius on January 22, 2014, 03:06:27 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;722255What you're talking about in modern western Magick is termed "Goetia", and there will be rules for using the Goetia (in the style of 1910-era Edwardian ceremonial magicians) in the upcoming  Raiders of R'lyeh RPG.

RPGPundit

This really damn cool. Thanks for posting this. I always wondered if there was a term for this sort of thing.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: RPGPundit on January 24, 2014, 06:36:46 PM
Quote from: Louchavelli;725320Historically, the lesser keys were broken into multiple books, each one dealing with a specific topic.  Most involve the names of powerful demons and other spirits, that can be used to bind the spirit.  The books had other occult uses/knowledges.  It was believed that "keys" were literally the keys to creation.  Each key was a word of the creator, hence why it was uber strong.  The lesser keys of solomon is the more common tome.  But among occult circles there are rumors of the Greater Keys of solomon that allow even more miraculous actions.

Um, dude, its not a "rumor", the Goetia is the first of five books of what's called the Lemegeton, the "Lesser Key of Solomon".  They are collectively a kind of second-part of an earlier book called the Clavicula Solomonis,  the Key of Solomon the King.  So the Goetia is the lowest book of a whole series of Grimoiric texts, all of which still survive.

RPGPundit
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Arkansan on January 24, 2014, 08:45:56 PM
Always thought this was a neat subject. Solomon has long been associated with binding demons, early "Gnostic" texts refer to Solomon and the binding of demon, and are likely indicative of a preexisting oral tradition. Also of interest are vestigial hints of ritual magic in the Hebrew Scriptures, off the top of my head I recall something of a ram or goat being released to the wilderness to appease a demon whose name escapes me. I also have heard the idea floated that the blood over the door post during the plague of the first born is an echo of an earlier ritual designed to offer protection against demons. If one is interested in this kind of thing there are quite a few ANE sources on folk magic, some from Ugarit, Sumer, Babylon etc.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Rincewind1 on January 24, 2014, 09:09:10 PM
Quote from: Arkansan;726283Always thought this was a neat subject. Solomon has long been associated with binding demons, early "Gnostic" texts refer to Solomon and the binding of demon, and are likely indicative of a preexisting oral tradition. Also of interest are vestigial hints of ritual magic in the Hebrew Scriptures, off the top of my head I recall something of a ram or goat being released to the wilderness to appease a demon whose name escapes me. I also have heard the idea floated that the blood over the door post during the plague of the first born is an echo of an earlier ritual designed to offer protection against demons. If one is interested in this kind of thing there are quite a few ANE sources on folk magic, some from Ugarit, Sumer, Babylon etc.

Scapegoat is the name in English, in case you wonder ;). The idea was that all the sins of the community'd be transferred onto the goat, which'd be then chased away from the village. I can't remember what particular holiday it was, but it happened once per year.
Title: Solomonic magic system
Post by: Arkansan on January 24, 2014, 10:41:07 PM
Ahh that's it, thank you.