Quote from: Emperor Norton;820501Yes, because theRPGSite, which is obsessed mostly with Old School games is 100% a good representation of the entire hobby. :rolleyes:

Oh, no, a few guys on theRPGSite think its bad, the game must be shit! :rolleyes:

Don't be jealous, it's juvenile.

It cannot be helped if people saw this coming from a mile away.

Quote from: jeff37923;820503Don't be jealous, it's juvenile.

It cannot be helped if people saw this coming from a mile away.

Jealous of what? The game is doing well, tons of people are playing it, and its continuing to come out with stuff, being one of the best supported games at the moment.

Jealous of the ability to create unsubstantiated claims based on tiny amounts of anecdotal evidence? Yes, the only reason the game is selling is because its Star Wars! We know that because like 5 people on theRPGSite said so! The site that is massively anti-Narrative doesn't like a system with a narrative bend, I'm so surprised!

Where is your comparison? Warhammer Fantasy 3rd? That game required a crazy amount of buy in, much higher than FFG Star Wars (which could be started with a 20ish dollar starter set), and the ruleset was way way more clunky in my opinion, with way more moving parts on the dice.

I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be jealous of, other than maybe the bliss that comes from ignorance?

Quote from: Emperor Norton;820506Jealous of what?

Where is your comparison?

I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be jealous of?

d6 Star Wars, Revised, Updated, and Expanded

I'm not too impressed with the new Star Wars. I'll play it because I like my space opera and at the end of the day "System Only Matters to A Point".

Last time we played the GM decided that out of combat to simply ignore results outside the binary success/failure as the whole "you pick the lock but..." started to get really tedious. In combat the "extra" results are more strictly codified.

Quote from: jeff37923;820507d6 Star Wars, Revised, Updated, and Expanded

Which has jack and shit to do with what I responded to.

To be fair I called out World of Darkness MMO failing as well so at least give me some credit.  I mean at the time it was announce people where saying that CCP would make it work because they made EVE Online work really well.  I, however, pointed out that the MMO market was over flowing with too many MMOs so this game will most likely fail.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820502Out of curiosity, how many dice are you playing with?

I've found that you need a minimum of three sets with beginning characters if you want to avoid having to reroll individual dice to form a full pool. You can get away with two sets while only occasionally having to kludge it, but the idea of playing with only a single set sounds absolutely horrid.

That means a $45 investment in dice on top of a $60 core rulebook. ($180 in core rulebooks, of course, if you want a complete game.) I think the most depressing thing for me is how completely inaccessible FFG has made what could be a major gateway product.

The only reason I'm running it is because somebody else paid for all the rulebooks and the dice. Previously, I've approached the "buy the same rules 9 times" FFG marketing plan, laughed, and walked away.

Not sure, but the GM bought a bunch of dice sets. He has 5 or 6, and I have one that gets shared out randomly (usually myself, my fiancée and whoever is sitting nearby - one of the players thinks my set is "unlucky"). I may get another set just for extras.

I like what they did with the game. It's pretty fun and fairly flexible, and they did a good job of keeping the separate careers fairly interchangeable. I do somewhat wish there a way to use XP to increase stats but at least they used a talent for that.

My only complaint by now is the size of the ships and ship crews, and THAT is a legacy from WEG d6. For example, I think that the Tantive-class vessels are maybe 100 meters at most, two or three decks high and have no more than 60 crew.

Quote from: Snowman0147;820497Called it and I mean I fucking called it.  I knew that custom dice was going to ruin the game and that the only reason it would sell like hot cakes is because of the name brand.  Any other none name brand game and this would fail.  Hell it failed for Warhammer which is a name brand, but far less popular than Star Wars.

Its hard to get actual figures but from those we do have ICv2 figures suggest that WFRP3e did roughly as well as WFRP2e - http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1984-Top-5-RPGs-Compiled-Charts-2008-Present. FFG's Star Wars is also doing extremely well on those figures too.

As for WoD MMO, I don't think you get much credit for saying the obvious. Almost no one thought it would succeed.

Quote from: languagegeek;820359I GMed a 10-session (or so) SW EotE campaign. We quite liked the game and the mechanics. What I found helped is:

1) Have the GM screen. It saved a lot of page flipping through the manual
2) When there are a lot of dice rolls in a short time, have a roll with an advantage just add a blue-die to the next roll if there's no obvious reason to have a specific effect.
3) Get enough dice or use an online roller. Skip the talent cards (they are useless).

After I finish the current Temple of Elemental Evil campaign, we're going to do a part II Age of Rebelion campaign.

Thanks for the comments. I'd probably still go with WEG SW d6, because I love the simplicity of it, but the multi-dimensional resolution is interesting. It takes time to perfect an idea; I'm sure the third or fourth generation of the system will get it right.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;820506That game required a crazy amount of buy in, much higher than FFG Star Wars (which could be started with a 20ish dollar starter set)

Reality check: The Beginning Game boxed sets are $30 each.

Quote from: Jame Rowe;820518My only complaint by now is the size of the ships and ship crews, and THAT is a legacy from WEG d6. For example, I think that the Tantive-class vessels are maybe 100 meters at most, two or three decks high and have no more than 60 crew.

Actually, the CR90 has a maximum crew of 165 and can carry up to 600 passengers. The FFG book doesn't list a specific size, although the rest of the stats do seem consistent with the 150 meter length listed in the old WEG sourcebooks. (However WEG thought that something roughly the size of a modern submarine could either (a) have an interior as shown in the movies or (b) 750+ people on it is really unclear to me.)

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820526Reality check: The Beginning Game boxed sets are $30 each.

EotE Beginner box is $24 on Amazon AoR is $21. And $20 on Coolstuff, which is where I got my copies.

And still a good bit under the Warhammer Fantasy 3rd entry points.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820526Actually, the CR90 has a maximum crew of 165 and can carry up to 600 passengers. The FFG book doesn't list a specific size, although the rest of the stats do seem consistent with the 150 meter length listed in the old WEG sourcebooks. (However WEG thought that something roughly the size of a modern submarine could either (a) have an interior as shown in the movies or (b) 750+ people on it is really unclear to me.)

Thus my decision to hold that Star Wars ships are smaller with less crew and passengers than is listed in the books. I've heard that they were going with the theory of "George Lucas wants it to look like a Star Destroyer could be a mile long" means it IS a mile long, instead of taking it to mean "visually impressive."

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820502That still doesn't explain why you need three separate tiers all handled in slightly different ways. This system generates outcomes like, "Moderate success with something vaguely good, also something vaguely better than than the vaguely good, but also some seriously bad in a vague way."

Succeed-with-complication can be usefully improvised around. Succeed-with-complication-and-great-thing-and-also-a-really-bad-thing is just noise.

i'm not disagreeing with you and personally i think 2 tiers would have been enough, i just don't think it's that big of a problem. weird results are very rare in my experience. i was sceptical about the system before i actually played and i was surprised how well it works.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820502A nice house rule which, you'll note, tacitly admits that the system doesn't actually work.

i've never seen a system that couldn't use a bit of houseruling. have you?

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820502Not really following your logic here. Why are you claiming that success-with-narrative-complication isn't narrative, but success-with-narrative-complication-and-also-narrative-triumph is narrative? Particularly since you've already admitted that you've house ruled out the narrative effects of Triumph results?

i don't think i actually said that...

the idea you posted results in "only reporting a binary success-fail state and the quality of that success or failure."

i fail to see the potential for narrative interpretation of the roll there. maybe i missunderstood what you meant.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820502I also don't really accept that these mechanics are primarily narrative. If you look at the actual guidelines given in the rulebook, virtually none of them are narrative. It's stuff like "you accomplish the task 25% faster".

that's because they are only partially narrative. the skills all feature examples, but that's all they are... examples. you can (and should) do much more with advantages and threat.

"while this rulebook provides specific rules on how to resolve actions, the game relies heavily on both game master and the players to use their imagination - tempered with common sense - to explain what happens."

"the combination of dice types and symbols are all resources the players can use to help tell the story and add depth to the scene." (eote p.9)

"they use the information they obtain from the dice as well as any additional effects, complications and surprises." (eote p.15)

"players and gms alike are encouraged to take these opportunities to think about how the symbols can help move the story along and add details and special effects that create actionpacked sessions." (eote p.24)

to me these quotes show a lot of emphasis on the narrative elements of the system and as far as i can tell, most people play that way.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;820502That means a $45 investment in dice on top of a $60 core rulebook. ($180 in core rulebooks, of course, if you want a complete game.) I think the most depressing thing for me is how completely inaccessible FFG has made what could be a major gateway product.

Or a £4 die rolling app - smartphones aren't exactly obscure technology these days. Or a free web page.

The game is fine and seems to be doing well. The books are absolutely gorgeous too.