Quote from: Sacrosanct;564767Actually, you haven't.  The discussion sort of went like this:

You: It is racist because black people are portrayed as primitives.
Others: Here are representation of black people that aren't primitives.
You: But they're not this particular group of black people


Well, WTF mate.  If you create a specific culture, that is inspired/based off of a specific historical culture, then yeah, there are going to be similarities.  That in no way means that the entire ethnic group that that particular culture shares is like that.

Umm the Osirons are specifically not in the Mwangi section of the book. The book/wiki/everything tells you that the major factions of the Mwangi are A, B, C, D. If you're going to make a call to the Osirons (which I said Egyptians exist by the way) why is that not in their primary entry? Because that's not the association the authors made. It seems somehow you missed that part of the conversation

Quote from: jeff37923;564768All you have posted is "Ohmigod! Racist!" so far. You have not explained why the depiction of the Mwangi is racist in your mind.

I suspect that you do not know and have just been cribbing arguements from another forum to use here.

Yes. I have explained at length why the entry for Mwangi (being nothing but primitive folk) is racist when THE VERY NEXT ENTRY not only has a well dressed white dude (compare to the shirtless spear wielding tribesman) but who's description doesn't tell you that the majority of their people are motherfucking crap covered farmers.

Part of the problem is that certain people see this:



And immediately react like it was this:




There's a pretty big difference between the two, and it's sad the people can't see it.  One is clearly racist, while the other is a researched historical accuracy.  A company that puts the 2nd image in their book deserves to get flogged, but a company that puts the first should in no way get vilified.

Quote from: MGuy;564770Yes. I have explained at length why the entry for Mwangi (being nothing but primitive folk) is racist when THE VERY NEXT ENTRY not only has a well dressed white dude (compare to the shirtless spear wielding tribesman) but who's description doesn't tell you that the majority of their people are motherfucking crap covered farmers.

OK, so having a picture of a non-white from a primitive culture within a few pages of a picture of a "well-dressed white dude" is racist?

Where does this "well-dressed white dude" come from? What nation or culture?

As for whether or not you can make a real world analogue without stepping on people's toes, yes its possible if you're not lazy. If I were going about it (which I do not copy paste real world analogues) I'd at least step a bit more carefully than having a spear wielding black dude, a dirt covered native american, sharing the same space with other well dressed civilizations. Also I'd focus on the heights of their civilizations and not the lows. If you're going to do both then you should extend the entries in general so when players cruise through your book and see the primary racial entry for black skinned humans they don't have to walk away thinking that all of them are either tribes folk, mixed sea faring people, or people trying to be more modern by rejecting their traditions. To say nothing of the slavers/demon worshipers.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564772Part of the problem is that certain people see this:



And immediately react like it was this:




There's a pretty big difference between the two, and it's sad the people can't see it.  One is clearly racist, while the other is a researched historical accuracy.  A company that puts the 2nd image in their book deserves to get flogged, but a company that puts the first should in no way get vilified.

It's a total joke that Paizo is being lambasted like this when they are one of the few companies that actually do serious market research into this and purposely make all their products both female friendly and multicultural.

Quote from: MGuy;564770Yes. I have explained at length why the entry for Mwangi (being nothing but primitive folk) is racist when THE VERY NEXT ENTRY not only has a well dressed white dude (compare to the shirtless spear wielding tribesman) but who's description doesn't tell you that the majority of their people are motherfucking crap covered farmers.

Holy....


Do you not get that depictions of people in those books are usually depictions of characters that players would play?  A player is going to want to play a Zulu warrior instead of one of the women who culturally do not fight or venture forth.  A player is going to want to play a noble or knight instead of a farmer with shit all over him.

It's not that hard, and doesn't make it racist.

Quote from: jeff37923;564774OK, so having a picture of a non-white from a primitive culture within a few pages of a picture of a "well-dressed white dude" is racist?

Where does this "well-dressed white dude" come from? What nation or culture?

So... you haven't actually read the book in question I take it?

Quote from: MGuy;564778So... you haven't actually read the book in question I take it?

Fuck. I did read the book, and I think you are fucking nuts, dude.

I think the real bigots have outed themselves by expressing their disgusting anti-tribal/anti-"primitive" views...

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564772Part of the problem is that certain people see this:



And immediately react like it was this:




There's a pretty big difference between the two, and it's sad the people can't see it.  One is clearly racist, while the other is a researched historical accuracy.  A company that puts the 2nd image in their book deserves to get flogged, but a company that puts the first should in no way get vilified.

That and the idea that using the term "primitive" is disparaging. It usually just means technology. Real World "primitive" cultures can be very complex and advanced socially. As an example, read Conversations with Ogotomelli which is a good introduction to West African religious traditions as seen through the eyes of the Dogon tribe.

People also can see:None of which feature shirtless spear wielding men as per the little racist cartoon your brought up.

Quote from: MGuy;564752Games in general are typically racist and misogynistic so I see this kind of shit all the time.

A monk was sitting by the side of the road, when a traveller passed by, seemingly angry and out of sorts. He complained to the monk about the rude and intolerant people in the last town and asked what the next town was like.

"Pretty much the same", said the monk.

Another traveller happened along, cheerful and in good form, and told the monk he had met many fine people in the last town, who had treated him well. He inquired as to what the people of the next town would be like.

"Pretty much the same", said the monk.

Quote from: Spike;564758


I dunno. Since THIS is the picture associated with the savage barbarians (you know: Illiterates), I'd have to say Golarian is racist against white people.

It insinuates they're all drug addicts too, I don't know how much PCP you'd have to horse back to be able to lift that pigsticker. (I can say pigsticker right, thats not racist against police people?)

Quote from: MGuy;564775Also I'd focus on the heights of their civilizations and not the lows.

The height of the civilization (as far as romanticized fantasy goes) is the spear wielding warrior.  Those were bad ass motherfuckers.  There's nothing racist about it.  You're suggesting adding some sort of technology when it makes no cultural sense just because you want to avoid appearing to be racist?  That is sooooo dumb.  The famous tribal African warrior is depicted without much clothing because it's fucking hot in Africa.  Not because he's any less intelligent or civilized than a European counterpart.

The problem is with you, and people like you, who assume that a tribal or nomadic culture is by default inferior to a European culture.  So YOU are the one who is racist.  How do you like those apples?

Quote from: MGuy;564778So... you haven't actually read the book in question I take it?

I had it and decided I didn't need it. I do not remember this particular picture and am asking you in the hope of understanding your views.

Now, are you going to answer the fucking question or will you keep dissembling in an attempt to avoid it.

EDIT: And will you quit photobombing this thread or at least try to keep the pics to a reasonable size and not in a line across the screen.