I'm starting to think this forum really needs to call itself rpgnet.txt.

Quote from: Dog Quixote;564102I'm starting to think this forum really needs to call itself rpgnet.txt.

I am starting to think you need to look really hard about the definition of "free speech".

Quote from: Marleycat;564103I am starting to think you need to look really hard about the definition of "free speech".

I prefer to stay away from other people's fetishes.

Quote from: S'mon;564095You're being racist to us Ulstermen? :confused:

Don't take my word for it. Note I didn't single out all Ulstermen either, just the loyalist ones imported from the UK. Argue with the reports if you like.

Quote from: jhkim;564040Is the claim here that if a private citizen posts on a board claiming that some RPG product is racist, then that somehow is "political regulation on your imagination"?  

However wrong-headed or not the claims are about Golarion, a fucking internet thread isn't a political regulation.  It is, in fact, their free speech rights.  Free speech means that people - being stupid - will sometimes say stupid things.  They might trash the game you like, rave about the game you hate, say that a game is racist when it isn't, or say that a game is racist when it is.  None of that is political regulation on you.

I agree they have a right to voice their opinion, and others are free to disagree. I do think it is a serious issue and a serious accusation though. My concern when I see things like this is that a small but vocal group might lead to designers self censoring themselves in a way that leads to lower quality or less satisfying products for the rest of us. Again they have every right in the world to criticize a game for any reason, but that doesn't mean all such criticisms are useful or valid.

I can't speak for other designers but no one wants to be labeled a racist. I do think threads like this make a lot of peope second guess themselves...not because they feel rpgnet is correct on these issues but because they know violating the standards laid forth on that forum easily results in these kinds of threads. I have made a concious choice to ignore rpgnet because I got into this to have fun(not worry about what random folks on the internet think)  but that is bad for business in my opinion. The last thing I want to do is worry about whether rpgnet is going to attack me for incorporating lots of Thai elements into my ogre culture for Sertorius or whether drawing on the Middle East for dwarves will have that effect. I personally love analogs in games.

I don't think the rpg.net forums have much of an impact on the Roleplaying scene really.
I remember going to the Dragonmeet con last year in London and I chatted with some of the games designers and publishers there asking about their presence on forums, specifically rpg.net.  Most of them said they didn't want to post there as it's a nightmare place for trolling and reactionary comments etc..

I'm betting only a small % of the Roleplaying community even bother browsing gaming forums anyway, especially as the age bracket is pretty high. I expect they're not wasting their time doing that and actually focusing on gaming.

It's only been in the last few years I've bothered to post much on Tabletop Roleplaying forums, although I've posted a lot for Computer gaming and other subjects..

tldr;
Who cares what the rpg.net forum people think. No-one really cares what they think anyway.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564135My concern when I see things like this is that a small but vocal group might lead to designers self censoring themselves in a way that leads to lower quality or less satisfying products for the rest of us.

I can't speak for other designers but no one wants to be labeled a racist.

Exactly what happened to me. Thank you.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564026So I guess my perspective is that don't think someone is automatically a racist when they use the term "gypsy", because what else are they supposed to know, especially if they are American?

It's not just that. It's not even clear that 'gypsy' is a pejorative term; some consider it to be, others don't.

There are similarities with 'Indian' as applied to Native Americans. There are many Native American organizations that use the terms Indian themselves. It was not originally a pejorative term, at some point gained some kind of negative connotation (at least when used by certain people), but was never exclusively negative, and was adopted by many of the peoples themselves to which it is supposed to be insulting. The meanings of words can change over time.

Saying 'gypsy is a racist term' is far too simplistic IMO.

Quote from: danskmacabre;564137I don't think the rpg.net forums have much of an impact on the Roleplaying scene really.
I remember going to the Dragonmeet con last year in London and I chatted with some of the games designers and publishers there asking about their presence on forums, specifically rpg.net.  Most of them said they didn't want to post there as it's a nightmare place for trolling and reactionary comments etc..

I'm betting only a small % of the Roleplaying community even bother browsing gaming forums anyway, especially as the age bracket is pretty high. I expect they're not wasting their rime doing that and actually focusing on gaming.

It's only been in the last few years I've bothered to post much on Tabletop Roleplaying forums, although I've posted a lot for Computer gaming and other subjects..

tldr;
Who cares what the rpg.net forum people think. No-one really cares what they think anyway.

While I think its true many designers don't post, I do think rpg forums have a huge impact on sales and website traffic (the later I have seen first hand on our website). It is also true that most gamers are not on forums, or at least not regularly. But in my experience the people who are the newsbringers and leaders tend to be. Also as time goes on, the forums seem to be replacing the watercoole role of local game stores. This is just my own opinion, but I feel rpgnet has a pretty big impact on things because it is an established site with lots of posters and very active threads. My guess is Paizo is watching that Golarion thread because it is a PR issue.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564143While I think its true many designers don't post, I do think rpg forums have a huge impact on sales and website traffic (the later I have seen first hand on our website). It is also true that most gamers are not on forums, or at least not regularly. But in my experience the people who are the newsbringers and leaders tend to be. Also as time goes on, the forums seem to be replacing the watercoole role of local game stores. This is just my own opinion, but I feel rpgnet has a pretty big impact on things because it is an established site with lots of posters and very active threads. My guess is Paizo is watching that Golarion thread because it is a PR issue.

Yes, but to borrow a term from Animal Farm, some forums are more equal than others.  The quickest way for a website or a forum to become irrelevant is if it gains a reputation for trolling, spamming, arbitrary administration, and nerd raging.

Quote from: The Traveller;564114Don't take my word for it. Note I didn't single out all Ulstermen either, just the loyalist ones imported from the UK. Argue with the reports if you like.

You are being racist to us Ulstermen. OK, gotcha. We're used to it.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564143My guess is Paizo is watching that Golarion thread because it is a PR issue.

Oh, certainly. Erik Mona is a frequent poster on rpgnet, on threads where they're not tarring & feathering his company over imagined wrongdoings.

I think that thread is so obviously specious that it is unlikely to affect Paizo sales, but I do think that a company's Internet reputation can help or hurt it. Eg I've heard many times that Kevin Simbieda is a litigious jerk, so I avoid buying Palladium products. Hearing a lot of good things about Paizo product encouraged me to check it out and buy some of their stuff. OTOH I've bought a fair amount of 4e D&D even after hearing it was bad - and it was bad.

I'm not sure politics of RPG products affects sales much; I did avoid Deadlands as I didn't like the setting's political set up, esp the removal of slavery from the Confederacy side of the Civil War to make them more 'nice', and the general absence of sexism & racism in the pseudo-historical setting. But that's probably fairly unusual I think.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564143While I think its true many designers don't post, I do think rpg forums have a huge impact on sales and website traffic (the later I have seen first hand on our website). It is also true that most gamers are not on forums, or at least not regularly. But in my experience the people who are the newsbringers and leaders tend to be. Also as time goes on, the forums seem to be replacing the watercoole role of local game stores. This is just my own opinion, but I feel rpgnet has a pretty big impact on things because it is an established site with lots of posters and very active threads. My guess is Paizo is watching that Golarion thread because it is a PR issue.

From my POV and experience I probably started frequenting RPG.net about a year or so ago.
But I increasingly note how such an unhealthy place it is to discuss things.
Not ALWAYS tho I have got useful info from there from time to time. But you have to do a LOT of filtering out the crappy comments.

Discussing online stuff with people I game with all of them really couldn't care less what conclusions are drawn there and generally snigger at the whole nerdrage thing there.

The various witchhunts that have taken place there have not negatively influenced my buying habits at all. Possibly the other way around, if a product is getting slated there, I'm more tempted to actually take a look at it to see what the fuss is all about and draw my OWN conclusions.

As a result of these negative experiences, I less frequently read the posts there or post fo that matter.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;564156Yes, but to borrow a term from Animal Farm, some forums are more equal than others.  The quickest way for a website or a forum to become irrelevant is if it gains a reputation for trolling, spamming, arbitrary administration, and nerd raging.

I think they have become a smaller and more focused community for sure in recent years, but still important. The golarion thread has something like 42,000 views. I know there are all kinds of ways to calculate that but still compared with many of their other threads that is a lot.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564167I think they have become a smaller and more focused community for sure in recent years, but still important. The golarion thread has something like 42,000 views. I know there are all kinds of ways to calculate that but still compared with many of their other threads that is a lot.

Many of which will be bots.