Quote from: David JohansenI'm with Koltar on this one, whatever Obiwan said was obviously intended as a lie.

No, I never got that impression at all, even back when I first saw it in 77. Obi-Wan's hesitation seems like just the natural hesitation anyone has when talking about something painful or someone they miss who is long dead. There is no hint of a lie in his storytelling in that scene. In retrospect, after seeing all the other movies, I see how it could seem that way. But remembering the original when it was the only movie, and taking it on its own with no other context in which to place it - Obi-Wan is not hesitating due to trying to concoct a lie. He's just reaching back across the gulf of years to remember things and people he hasn't spoken of in a long while.

Quote from: TonyLBIf that's your fancy, just stop watching there.

Exactly.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: SettembriniChoice and diversity are good.

Yet, unfortunately, a limitless font of spiritual pollution.

I also rewatched the original recently (I happen to have the DVD with the un-CGI'd version on the bonus disc! Hurray!) and what I noticed in the scene where Obi-Wan was talking about Luke's father was that Luke's father is clearly supposed to have been Luke's age (at most) when he met Obi-Wan, and that the Clone Wars were meant to be ongoing at that point - Obi-Wan clearly says that Skywalker Senior left Tatooine because he couldn't stand by and watch the Clone Wars unfold without him.

There's not a hint of "your dad was a scraggy kid that I adopted because of his bloodline."

What I found funny re-watching the series was how they had to bend over backwards for the "Your father already was a great pilot when I met him" comment Obi-Wan made in ROTJ. Hard to make that prophecy come true when they decided that Anakin starts out as a little kid.

There's a deleted scene from right before the final battle in the original movie, in which Red Leader tells Luke he had once met his father.

QuoteRED LEADER: I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's skill, you'll do better than all right.

The tone of the line, perhaps combined with back-calculation from Red Leader's apparent age (forty-something) doesn't fit with subsequent "revelations". When the scene (which involves Luke meeting his old friend Biggs) was restored in the Special Edition version of the movie, a trick was used to remove the line.

I liked the practical FX from the orginal trilogy alot more than the CGI FX of the Prequels.

"LESS is MORE" in this case.

Quote from: WarthurI also rewatched the original recently (I happen to have the DVD with the un-CGI'd version on the bonus disc! Hurray!) and what I noticed in the scene where Obi-Wan was talking about Luke's father was that Luke's father is clearly supposed to have been Luke's age (at most) when he met Obi-Wan, and that the Clone Wars were meant to be ongoing at that point - Obi-Wan clearly says that Skywalker Senior left Tatooine because he couldn't stand by and watch the Clone Wars unfold without him.

There's not a hint of "your dad was a scraggy kid that I adopted because of his bloodline."

And when you combine stuff like that with the appearance of Vader at the end of RotJ, you get the picture of a once noble knight falling from grace, that I always liked.

Instead when the prequels hit, we got a whiny, petulant little emo-kid.  That, more than anything, is what pissed me off about the prequels.  The destroyed the potential of Vader's character, and then, as if the further humiliation wasn't enough, Lucas went and injected that miserable little shit into the ending scene of RotJ.

I'm convinced that a lot of his characterization of Vader and Boba Fett in the movies were purely for the reason that Lucas felt people weren't supposed to like those characters, or think they were cool, as so many did, so he responded by writing their backstories in such a way as to make them look as utterly unsympathetic as possible.

Quote from: J ArcaneAnd when you combine stuff like that with the appearance of Vader at the end of RotJ, you get the picture of a once noble knight falling from grace, that I always liked.

You know there's a line in TESB or RotJ where Yoda goes "do not underestimate the Emperor or suffer the same fate as your father". There was something omnious about that. Something that led me to believe that pride had it's place of honour in Vader's fall and that there was something deeper more menacing to the Emperor than being just evil. All that changed after watching the prequels and to a certain degree RotJ...IMO off course.

QuoteI'm convinced that a lot of his characterization of Vader and Boba Fett in the movies were purely for the reason that Lucas felt people weren't supposed to like those characters, or think they were cool, as so many did, so he responded by writing their backstories in such a way as to make them look as utterly unsympathetic as possible.

And I'm convinced that you are onto something here. Lucas is the chap that said it was easy to elicit an emotional response from the audience - all you had to do is show a character throttling a kitten.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RLucas is the chap that said it was easy to elicit an emotional response from the audience - all you had to do is show a character throttling a kitten.

But what if you're force-choking the kitten?

"I find your neotonous features ... disturbing."

Quote from: TonyLBBut what if you're force-choking the kitten?

"I find your neotonous features ... disturbing."

Okay that's funny Tony ...but don't rain on my anti Lucas parade :brood:

Regards,
David R

This is about the point in a thread I pop in to say that I love Star Wars.  Love all the movies, love the comics, love the novels, love the RPGs.

fans, so called "fans", anti-fans, and the people that over-analyze what is just a whole bunch of fun and entertainment...are the things that I don't like about Star Wars

Now this is the point where veryone ignores what I said.

Quote from: TonyLBBut what if you're force-choking the kitten?

Now, you see, I initially read that as "force-choking the chicken" and, well... :talktothehand:

!i!

Quote from: grubmanThis is about the point in a thread I pop in to say that I love Star Wars.  Love all the movies, love the comics, love the novels, love the RPGs.

fans, so called "fans", anti-fans, and the people that over-analyze what is just a whole bunch of fun and entertainment...are the things that I don't like about Star Wars

Now this is the point where veryone ignores what I said.

Not me. It's pretty much how I approach it.

Except for the EU stuff, of course. I could never really get into Thrawn, the Yuzaan Vong (sp.?) and all that malarkey. The few times I did try it always felt like overwrought fanfic.

I was too young to watch either Star Wars or Empire at the cinema when they were first released (I saw them when re-released).  But I was there when Jedi was released... opening night.  There were queues around the street! :eek:
 
And I was there on opening night for The Phantom Menace.  I remember the excitment and the anticipation.  I remember the way the audienced cheered when the movie started and the theme music began.  I also remembered the sickening feeling in my stomach when I slowly began to realise "This sucks".
 
Some people claim that the new trilogy is just as good as the old.  And that I remember the original movies so favourably because I was just a kid back then... that as an adult, I view the new trilogy far too critically.
 
Maybe.
 
I remember as a kid, Darth Vader gave me nightmares for years.  He is, without doubt, the coolest, baddest, most awesome villian in movie history.  He's so bad, he needed to be played by two actors.  
 
In The Phantom Menace, he's played by Jake Lloyd.  A six year old.
 
As a kid, I remember being fascinated by Yoda.  Sure, I knew he was actually a puppet, but as far as I was concerned he lived and breathed.  He was mystical and wise and I cried when he died.
 
In Attack of the Clones, Yoda jumps around like a fighting frog.  And everyone in the cinema laughed at him.  Laughed at Yoda, I tell you!
 
Bah!
 
People are welcome to enjoy the new trilogy... but as far as I'm concerned, the new movies aren't "Star Wars".  Not by my definition.