Quote from: beejazzConstructing a lightsaber as a "final test?"

Last I checked, Luke constructed his own 'cause he lost the first one. And the hand that was holding it. Down a bottomless shaft that opens out into... sky. Ouch.

[igniting Luke's saber]
Vader: I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
Some people interpret "Your skills are complete" to mean that lightsaber construction is the "final test" that completes training. The implication being, all REAL Jedi build their own lightsabers.

I prefer the earlier implication that lightsabers are bestowed but in RotJ what authority figure could meaningfuly bestow a second lightsaber? (And how would you cram that subplot into an already crowded script?) I don't like it as a GM but I can see why it was done from a director's standpoint.

Quote from: malleus arianorum[igniting Luke's saber]
Vader: I see you have constructed a new lightsabre. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
Some people interpret "Your skills are complete" to mean that lightsaber construction is the "final test" that completes training. The implication being, all REAL Jedi build their own lightsabers.

Another possible implication of the same statement is that Luke just built a lightsaber without assistance. Which is, in fact, impressive... especially considering all the Jedi everywhere are dead. With whatever traditions there were that would have judged the criteria for completion of training. I always figured it simply implied that Luke was really really competent or had somehow found out about his Jedi heritage on his own.

In either case, I see it kind of reversed. It's not "You built a lightsaber, therefore your skills are complete" so much as "Your skills must be complete, if you know how to build a lightsaber." It indicates an arcane body of knowledge that Luke shouldn't really have access to, considering... again... the whole dead Jedi thing.

Gah! Overanalyzing!

My take on it is that it's two seperate statements.
1. I see you have constructed a new light saber.
(You've got the guts to fight me again?)

2. Your skills are complete, indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen.
(You're more powerful than before and as powerful as you'll ever be but still nothing more than a pawn to the Emperor.)

Anyway, I think there are plenty of plausable interpretations but unfortunately the idea that lightsaber construction = Jedi graduation seems to have taken on a life of it's own, probably because the daydream that creating a real life lightsaber makes someone a real Jedi is pandemic amongst fans.

Quote from: beejazzGah! Overanalyzing!

Feh. Calculating the fallout on Endor caused the the destruction of DS II, or determining the amount of freighters needed to bring food to Coruscant and how much of the sky that would cover, now _that_ is overanalyzing.

Yeah, but SW has a fairly low threshold for overanalyzing since so much of it is fiction rather than science.

Quote from: malleus arianorumYeah, but SW has a fairly low threshold for overanalyzing since so much of it is fiction rather than science.

Certainly. Technical overanalyzing really doesn't get you anywhere with Star Wars. It's not like you can just jump up and say "My Excel sheet proves you wrong, Mr. Lucas!", as the series never had delusions of grandeur when it came to technical details. Which makes the midichlorian debacle all that much worse...

I always thought Darth Vaders line about the lightsabre implied that yes, even for Star Wars technology a lightsabre is a seemingly impossible device (not as curde etc.), so not just its use but the construction requires someone strong in the force. Luke having done that shows that his finesse in the force now equals his raw power. Turning that into a test that every Padawan has to go through extrapolates a little too much. Although it fits in nicely with the fact that every Jedi seems to have a lightsabre and is scholed in its use, even if they might be pacifistic healers most of the time.
Passing down lightsabres makes lineage more important, whereas someone building their own stresses the enlightenment part.

Also, Siegfried forging his own sword might have influenced the script writers, being all Campbellian and stuff.

Quote from: grubmanStar Wars was made up as George went.  I think in these days Lucas tries to convince us he had big plans from the start, but all the evidence and "behind the scenes" information pretty much proves that the first movie (at least) was simply made up as george went.  Despite having movies beyond that planned, the details were never worked out untill right before production started.  Things like the love story between Han and Leia were "added" by the director before the second film.  I think the only real plan that was hashed out was that Vader would be Lukes father.  And I doubt if even that was set in stone when the first movie was being filmed.

Yep, it's the big fat bluff at the heart of the Star Wars mythology, and has given rise to all sorts of fannish contortions and EU nonsense.

I have a friend who simply refuses to believe that Star Wars didn't emerge fully formed in GL's brain one wet afternoon. The irony is that he uses this as a stick to beat the prequel trilogy with, arguing that Lucas was hoodwinking the fans all along, cackling maniacally as he waited to unleash the midichlorians when the stars were right.

There's no fanatic like a disappointed fanatic, I suppose. Personally I enjoy the films (even the new batch), although I treat them as an evolving space fantasy story that has been retconned numerous times by it's own creator. It's far less stressful, that way.

The Original Movies opened up a whole Universe, hinting, just showing the plethora of awesome vastness that is the SW Galaxy.

The Prequels made the Universe much, much smaller. Too small for me to be inspiring anymore.

Quote from: MarcoLuke Starkiller

And they didn't keep this name... why? Why? :eek:

Quote from: MelanAnd they didn't keep this name... why? Why? :eek:

"Luke Skywalker" is more likely to get the very important Viking demographic to go see the movie.

Quote from: MelanAnd they didn't keep this name... why? Why? :eek:

Too much of a giveaway?

Luke 'Son-of-Vader-and-Destroyer-of-Death-Stars' McJedi is such a mouthful.

*shrug* SW should have ended with TESB. The old school special effects greatly contributed to the immersive experience. I mean for me at least not many films these days do this well...not even LotR films. The films that come to mind at the moment who do this really well are Alien, Bladerunner ...more recent examples Pan's Labyrinth, City of Lost Children...

The series should have ended with the farm boy tongueing his sister, discovering who his father is and then getting his hand cut off...and the coolest character in the films encased in ice. The last shot of Empire really sets up the scene for limitless possibilities...like the shot of the Falcon escaping form the space dock on Tattoine in the first film.

Regards,
David R

Then thank Eris that George Lucas may have many sins, but following the artsy-fartsy "open ending" school isn't one of them...

Quote from: David R*shrug* SW should have ended with TESB.

If that's your fancy, just stop watching there.

The beginning and ending of the story are yours to control.  Dip in wherever you want, and stop watching when the moment seems right.  It's just like eating a meal:  Just because they put the Jumbo-Mega-With-Cheese on your plate doesn't mean you have to eat it all.  You stop when you've had enough.

Personally, I like having the options of stopping at the end of tESB (which, I agree, is a cool ending point for one sort of story) or of turning the television off only after the jubilant celebration of freedom and salvation at the end of RoJ.  I'd have been bummed if they never made a third movie ... It wouldn't have improved the former experience, and it would have denied me the latter.

Tony is right on all accounts.
Although the Prequels didn´t inspire me, I was happy to see some new take on the franchise. New stuff means more to choose from.

Choice and diversity are good.