On par with the fighter in the "here, you've never played before? use this" department
Feel free to tear it apart, it's literally the fruits of about 3 seconds idle thought and 3 minutes typing/referencing the 1e PHB :)
Sorcerer -
The sorcerer is a magical class that focuses on hurting enemies and overcoming challenges with powerful magic.
Hit die - 1d8
Primary attribute: INT
Ability requirement: INT 9+
Saves as fighter
Attacks as fighter
Armor allowed: None.
Weapons allowed: Staff and dagger
Magical Attack: The Sorcerer has a powerful magical attack at his disposal. At first level the sorcerer can hurl a bolt of magically energy at foes. As the Sorcerer gains levels the damage done and frequency of attacks increases.
Level / Attacks per round / Damage
1 1/1 1d8
2 1/1 1d8+1
3 1/1 1d8+1
4 1/1 1d8+2
5 3/2 1d10
6 3/2 1d10+1
7 3/2 1d10+1
8 3/2 1d10+2
9 2/1 1d12
10 2/1 1d12+1
Magical armor: The Sorcerer is able to use his magic to defend himself as well by encasing himself in magical armor.
Level "Natural" AC
1 6
2 6
3 5
4 5
5 4
6 4
7 3
8 3
9 2
10 2
I think it also needs some type of magical doohicky to up damage and attacks like magical swords for fighters.
Seems kind of dull in that he can't do anything but fight with his magic. We already have the fighter for kicking as that way.
Quote from: zarathustra;628961Seems kind of dull in that he can't do anything but fight with his magic. We already have the fighter for kicking as that way.
I tend to agree, I'm just having a little thought experiment about a class that just blasts people with magic ala the wizard in Golden Axe and the like.
Something as mechanically simple as the fighter... but with magic.
Quote from: zarathustra;628961Seems kind of dull in that he can't do anything but fight with his magic. We already have the fighter for kicking as that way.
Agreed. I basically adapted the 3e sorcerer to my ASSH campaign, which is essentially 1e based, and it worked well enough. It's not rocket science: compare sorcerer to the wizard class in 3e. Then start from MU class in AD&D and reverse-engineer the sorcerer from that paradigm. Easy as pie.
I was thinking about doing something like this based on Jedi/Sith (I've been playing SWTOR).
Basically they would have a main attack of shooting force lighting (or "mystic lighting" I was going to call it, and was going to call the class either the mystic or mystic knight). But what else? In the game they have light sabers, but the ranged Jedi/Sith class, mostly it's just zapping people (well, the Jedi use telekinesis instead)
Quote from: Benoist;628964Agreed. I basically adapted the 3e sorcerer to my ASSH campaign, which is essentially 1e based, and it worked well enough. It's not rocket science: compare sorcerer to the wizard class in 3e. Then start from MU class in AD&D and reverse-engineer the sorcerer from that paradigm. Easy as pie.
Yeah, but that kind of sorcerer is really no different than a wizard. A little, but not much. I think the idea is to make something more like the 3e Warlock, which could constantly (I think) attack with magic, but had no traditional spells.
Quote from: Piestrio;628963I tend to agree, I'm just having a little thought experiment about a class that just blasts people with magic ala the wizard in Golden Axe and the like.
Something as mechanically simple as the fighter... but with magic.
Ok, I get it.
Anyway, I'd jazz it up a tiny bit.
Going witht the jedi theme I'd add Mind Trick (suggestion, only non combat and reasonable, c'mon we all know how the mind trick works. Anything over 1 HD gets a save), Telekenisis and Detect Magic to the arsenal.
Choose 1 at first level, gain another at 3, 5, 7. But each costs 1 HP to use (prevents abuse).
More complex but not near as much as usual wizards with spell lists, memorising etc.
Quote from: JeremyR;628965Yeah, but that kind of sorcerer is really no different than a wizard. A little, but not much. I think the idea is to make something more like the 3e Warlock, which could constantly (I think) attack with magic, but had no traditional spells.
I see that, and I'm kind of thinking like Zarathustra about this. You've basically got the fighter for it. I think it makes sense to have a magic user being a little more advanced from a rules standpoint. It fits with the idea that you enter the game using an alter ego akin to the protagonist in Three hearts and three lions or John Carter and other dimension travelers being "fighting men" of all things, and later upgrading once you know what you are dealing with, with playing a harder character class to survive, with more resource management and the like, aka the magic user. The 3e sorcerer in this regard is the response to people who "almost" don't grok Vancian casting and "could" if only it was more instinctive with the ability to cast whatever you have when you need it... and it works in an AD&D paradigm as well, IMO.
Looks okay for a quick and dirty Golden Axe type caster. I would drop the HD to 1d6, and start the damage at 1d6 too. Maybe even 1d4. I'd also make it like a missile attack, but use INT for the to-hit bonus, and include ranges.
Wasn't there a big spell in Golden Axe for taking out groups? I'd perhaps throw something like that in with either a simple once per adventure limit or you have to have x number of consecutive hits with the bolt to acess it.
Quote from: Piestrio;628948On par with the fighter in the "here, you've never played before? use this" department
Feel free to tear it apart, it's literally the fruits of about 3 seconds idle thought and 3 minutes typing/referencing the 1e PHB :)
Sorcerer -
Magical Attack: The Sorcerer has a powerful magical attack at his disposal. At first level the sorcerer can hurl a bolt of magically energy at foes. As the Sorcerer gains levels the damage done and frequency of attacks increases.
Level / Attacks per round / Damage
Magical armor: The Sorcerer is able to use his magic to defend himself as well by encasing himself in magical armor.
Level "Natural" AC
I think it also needs some type of magical doohicky to up damage and attacks like magical swords for fighters.
I'd approach this similar but a little more different, taking a concept page from 4e. Rather than giving the Sorcerer an inherent AC, I would leave him as a low-AC class (at least a first) and instead give him a magical attack which can be used to push or immobilise enemies. So the niche would be attacking at range, keeping enemies at range and pushing them back to range. It would be pretty much as simple as a fighter from a rules perspective, but have a different feel in play. The push and immobilise effects could be ramped up as they level, and become selective at higher levels so you could paralyse all your enemies in a blast whilst leaving allies untouched.
The simplest way to add some more magic flavour into the class would be to allow them to cast M-U spells from scrolls and use M-U magic items.
You could just use the 1e monk as your template.
RPGPundit
This seems like a possible start... but it's definitely not quite where it needs to be yet. I definitely approve of the thought process though.
Quote from: RPGPundit;629604You could just use the 1e monk as your template.
RPGPundit
Ya, as Pundit mentions, one could change the source and effect of the monk features, which would help set-up this class scheme. Pundit might be voicing a little sarcasm here too along with the suggestion, but it is a completely valid way to have a guideline to write it.
Quote from: Kuroth;629771Ya, as Pundit mentions, one could change the source and effect of the monk features, which would help set-up this class scheme. Pundit might be voicing a little sarcasm here too along with the suggestion, but it is a completely valid way to have a guideline to write it.
I wasn't being sarcastic, I really thought it was the easiest way to set up this kind of thing.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;630103I wasn't being sarcastic, I really thought it was the easiest way to set up this kind of thing.
RPGPundit
Cool. Ya, we are in agreement. For Original D&D and the Holmes/Moldvay/Cook/Mentzer editing of the D&D, AD&D 1 provides lots of handy guidelines and ideas. Edit: It has ideas for any game really, if one is familiar with it.
I think this is a pretty cool idea. You do need ranges, and I'd add an area-of-effect spell. Other than that, this class is something I'd play.
I once did up a class for AD&D 1 that was intended to create a single general class, sort of a way to have a classless version of AD&D. I increased the in game focus upon attribute scores to enhance individuality between character. The class also had options to choose between as the character increased in level. Part of the idea was to make things less of a hurdle for new players. Things from the old'n days.
Quote from: danbuter;630108I think this is a pretty cool idea. You do need ranges, and I'd add an area-of-effect spell. Other than that, this class is something I'd play.
I'm with Dan. I like it, at least conceptually. Very much reminds me of the 3e Warlock in philosophy. There's also an onscure "New Universe" superhero called "Justice" that I think would work well as a model for this kind of caster, with a few utility tricks thrown in. Give him a roll-to-hit magic missile, a use-at-will shield spell, and some utility tricks and done.
Can you explain how attacks work?
Assume level 1 Sorcerer, which gets one attack per round at 1d8.
First, is this just an automatic hit? There is no to-hit roll against AC? Or is it defender rolls against their spell save every round?
Second, what is the initiative priority of this spell attack?
Third, what is this built-in spell range?
Fourth, is this spell always available, need no memorization, and requires no V,S, or M?
So far, these questions also leave me asking whether there is even a point to allowed weapons. Or perhaps I am severely misinterpreting how this works.
QuoteCan you explain how attacks work?
Sure, but your ideas are probably as good as mine :)
QuoteAssume level 1 Sorcerer, which gets one attack per round at 1d8.
First, is this just an automatic hit? There is no to-hit roll against AC? Or is it defender rolls against their spell save every round?
Roll to hit as a fighter.
Although I do like the save v. spell idea Hrmmmmmm...
QuoteSecond, what is the initiative priority of this spell attack?
Don't know. Since I'm aping a fighter probably as a ranged attack rather than a "spell"
QuoteThird, what is this built-in spell range?
Don't really know. 30ft? 100ft?
QuoteFourth, is this spell always available, need no memorization, and requires no V,S, or M?
Always available.
QuoteSo far, these questions also leave me asking whether there is even a point to allowed weapons. Or perhaps I am severely misinterpreting how this works.
There isn't and your not (I don't think).
Maybe the sorcerer should be required to have a "Sorcerer's wand" to use his attack, this would give an option for the GM to include items like "Sorcerer's wand +1", "Sorcerer's wand of ice" etc...
hrmmmm...
Not sure if I'd want to be chained to a wand, per se. Make it some kind of item like a wand or staff, or maybe even a dagger or a ring. Or no item required. Maybe certain items grant a +1 or other bonus, but to actually cast, no item required.
Oh, so I am obviously asking for details out of just a sketch. Sorry, but yeah, interesting start. I don't know how I could create or improve on a "Magic Missile" pre-fab wizard.
There is a few things that leave a continuously available 'magic missile' ranged attack as tough to design. Makes weapons redundant, a bit too martial, not cooperate with others well, etc. Feels a bit like a one-note. I will still think about it as it is now a design puzzle to me...
Here, you inspired this 2e Wizard subclass out of me. Not all that KISS, but sorta combat capable and simple:
Archetype - Wizard
Class - Witch
Prime Requisite - Int
Ability Requirement - Int 9+, Wis 9+
Race - Any (except Gnome)
Specialized School - Necromancy
Banned Schools - Illusion
Armor - none
Weapon - staff, dagger, club
Evil Eye - A stare from a witch freezes most mortals with dread. There is an implicit unseen threat that somehow feels like it backs up the witch. It scares away most people often leaving witches friendless, but has made more than a few hostiles think twice. By staring directly at attackers, a witch has been known to withdraw long enough to get a chance to run away.
Mechanics Witches get -2 on their Charisma Reaction Adjustments. In combat they may Withdraw from up to three front facing enemies without them following closer that round. At lvl 5: The Evil Eye also triggers an immediate morale check at the start of an encounter.
Jinx - Witches bring continuous bad luck unconsciously, which while irritating to those nearby, offers a minor form of protection. This effect is always on, much to the witch's discomfort, as it wins them little friends. But it has kept one alive more than once.
Mechanics All melee or ranged physical attacks entering or leaving within 1 distance of this witch (it expands to 10 yards outdoors) suffer -2 penalty to-hit. Only a witch's own attacks are immune to this effect. A witch can suffer from another witch's jinx, but jinxes do not stack.
Hex - Witches unconsciously shed off a bit of their bad luck when they are angered enough to attack someone. This malediction remains until discharged or an intensive Priest ritual fights off the minor bad spirits attached. Like an echo of spirit malice, unfortunate coincidence piles on making any next physical attack especially grievous.
Mechanics Whenever this witch successfully lands a physical melee or range attack, the very next attack that creature suffers adds a bonus damage roll equal to this witch's weapon damage roll. There is no time limit for a Hex to discharge. However a hex can only attach to an un-hexed victim, so a hex has to discharge before another attaches.