TheRPGSite

Is it better to have no shop at all than one that doesn't know how to sell rpg's or one that sells rpg's badly?

Is bad game shopping better than no game shopping, you mean?

-clash

Game shops are dead as of 1998. If I can't get it online or at Amazon.. I usually don't get it.

What I mean: is it better to have a shop that has crap stock, staff that don't kno what they rpg's are about or how to sell them than no shop at all?

I believe it's better to have no shop at all.

Quote from: signoftheserpentWhat I mean: is it better to have a shop that has crap stock, staff that don't kno what they rpg's are about or how to sell them than no shop at all?

I believe it's better to have no shop at all.

Yes, it's better to have no game stores then a bad game stores.

If you have a bad game store around you go to another one or buy your items online.  Eventually the bad game store will go away.

A crappy store at least has the potential to change. Once it disappears though it's highly unlikely another will emerge to take its place, and not everyone has the luxury of net access or a regular group to play with.

Quote from: signoftheserpentIs it better to have no shop at all than one that doesn't know how to sell rpg's or one that sells rpg's badly?

Yes.

Quote from: DrewA crappy store at least has the potential to change. Once it disappears though it's highly unlikely another will emerge to take its place, and not everyone has the luxury of net access or a regular group to play with.

I've learned it is not worth the time or effort to wait for a crappy store to change. And to actually try to influence that change is even worse.

Quote from: WilI've learned it is not worth the time or effort to wait for a crappy store to change. And to actually try to influence that change is even worse.

I'm not advocating camping out with placards or anything, or even shopping at a store that provides crappy service. It's just that gaming stores are fewer and farther between than ever, and at least provide a focal point for the local community that just isn't achievable through non-internet methods.

Where there's life there's hope. Once a store goes under it's likely that the one retail point for rpg's in the area is gone forever. It may not mean much to you or I, but to the lone thirteen year-old just getting into gaming it could be huge.

Quote from: DrewA crappy store at least has the potential to change. Once it disappears though it's highly unlikely another will emerge to take its place, and not everyone has the luxury of net access or a regular group to play with.

Nah, as long as there are gamers with no real job skills and parents with money, there will always be new, poorly-run shops opening up to take the place of those that closed.

I actually just discovered something I was completely unaware of somewhat close to me:

http://www.dailybulletin.com/upland/ci_3887669

I want to go check it out, but they seem to have hit on something I've never seen before. Classes. They are actually running after school programs and pay-by-the-hour classes on a variety of gaming related subjects.

Quote from: jgantsNah, as long as there are gamers with no real job skills and parents with money, there will always be new, poorly-run shops opening up to take the place of those that closed.

I can't say that's true in my area. London stores have slowly dwindled over the last 20 years to the point that there's only 3 now to speak of, catering to a metroploitan population of 7.5 million+.

I have two FLGS's where I am, a really close SFLGS (Simi-Friendly Local Game Store) and a FLGS which is about 20 minutes away.

I went to the SFLGS today and I have to say the place is getting more and more disgusting.   The store has crap all over the place, and I think the manager there has decided to stop cleaning the place up totally now.

I may start going out of my way to shop because that store has become real shite.

I think it would be better to have no store then that store.

The real kicker here is that the existence of a local game store is often cited as being the best way to entice people who are interested or inclined to actually game - by giving them a place to be able to see the products, play in demos, interact with other gamers face to face, etc. The problem is that a poorly run store - with bad customer service, dirty, cluttered,  rude customers, whatever - is more likely to reinforce bad stereotypes and drive people away. So, yes, I believe that regionally having no game store is better than having a bad one.

Quote from: WilI've learned it is not worth the time or effort to wait for a crappy store to change. And to actually try to influence that change is even worse.

I can't imagine how you could change such places; certainly the people working there aren't going to suddenly become star retailers and rpg experts just because you say so I would think. Asking them to stock certain products in spite of that just seems futile (especially if you don't then buy them all!)

Quote from: signoftheserpentI can't imagine how you could change such places; certainly the people working there aren't going to suddenly become star retailers and rpg experts just because you say so I would think. Asking them to stock certain products in spite of that just seems futile (especially if you don't then buy them all!)

Usually the best way is to stop shopping there, and let them know why. Any retailer with an ounce of business sense will realise that practices that drive customers away are a really bad idea.

Of course the terms 'FLGS owner' and 'business sense' are often mutually exclusive.

Fuck 'em.  when I can go online and pay a fraction of MSRP for my books, there's no goddamn reason to give my money to a shitty game store.

for a good game store though, I'll be inclined to pay sticker just for the sake of impulse buy and the convenience of having a place in ones own neck of the woods.

I actually don't believe in good gaming stores anymore. I mean, I'm sure they could exist, but it's sort of like UFOs. Lots of people talk about seeing them all the time, even interacting with them, but I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

The first gaming store I ever walked into in my town here was run by a living Comic Store Guy who rapidly became known as "Scowling Cowling". Interestingly, he vaguely reminds me of a Pundit pre-d20.

Then a series of forgettable comic book/collectable stores with an offering of gaming books best described as 'schizophrenic' at prices that are not designed to move books, but to profit tidily. The Red Star Campaign Setting for $55? I beg your fucking pardon. I could buy Cyradon, but not HARP. There's some old CP2020 stuff next to v3 - Live and Direct, Morgan Blackhand's, might still be a copy of Shockwave. Their 'discount' bin is about $5 MSRP. If I want a -gorgeous- bronze look bust of Gaius and Six, it's the place to go, but RPGs? Nuh-uh.

OR I can go 45 minutes out of my way - and during time I should be sleeping - to buy my RPGs at a genuine GAME store. Board games, CCQs, minis, and RPGs. Their selection isn't bad - two shelves with a good shot at having new d20, GURPS, or nWoD releases, going as far into the lower tiers as to offer BESM 3rd and similar. Prices are reasonable, and he'll order anything he can get a hold of. The trouble is, it's very focused on being a place to play, within 3 blocks of a junior high (that's grades 8-10 up here), and only one room. The standard complement is about a half dozen of the disposable income middle-age CCG traders, a few 16-year olds trying to haggle good deals off them, and about thirty 14-year olds playing Star Wars minis and Yu-Gi-Oh. Actually -ordering- something is an exercise in, well, yelling.

OR, I can shop on eBay and Amazon on my schedule and at my leisure, with research and comparison shopping at the same time. I pay about half of what I would on the ground, shipping included, and it arrives in about two weeks. I save on cover price and impulse purchasing, so I get more things I know I want. There's really no comparison.

Game Empire in San Diego is a good game shop. The staff is knowledgeable and helpful, and they actually all wear GE shirts, so the place looks professional. The selection of games is good, and includes out-of-print stuff they got from trade-ins. There is a huge attached gaming room which is packed on the weekends. Plus, and this is a huge point in their favor, they stay open late - 10 PM M-TH, 11 PM FR-SA, 9 PM SU. Game shops with bankers hours don't often get my business because I have to actually, y'know, work.

Games Plus - Mount Prospect, IL.

It's not a UFO - it's right the fuck there...see it?

Quote from: ColonelHardissonGame Empire in San Diego is a good game shop. The staff is knowledgeable and helpful, and they actually all wear GE shirts, so the place looks professional. The selection of games is good, and includes out-of-print stuff they got from trade-ins. There is a huge attached gaming room which is packed on the weekends. Plus, and this is a huge point in their favor, they stay open late - 10 PM M-TH, 11 PM FR-SA, 9 PM SU. Game shops with bankers hours don't often get my business because I have to actually, y'know, work.

Game Empire was always one of my favorites when I was in the service. Of course, I was going down to San Diego from Pendleton about a weekend a month to party and relax, so I didn't have a whole lot to do during the day except hang out at the game store.

I have two local game stores, one is 10 minutes away and one is 25 minutes away.  The one 10 minutes away I visited yesterday when I bought UA and found it disgusting.  It was actually dirtier then it was the time before.  The other one is clean.

I am going to start going to the other store now on.

I found myself in a position where I could try and turn a not-especially good gaming store into something better late last year, when I got my current job at a bookstore that also sells RPGs, CCGs/miniatures and some board games.  Unfortunately, since one of the other bookstores owned by the same people did well selling RPGs and stuff, upper management forced gaming-related things on everyone else, with mixed results.  I convinced my manager to let me stock a wider variety of games (We originally only had some D&D 3.5 core books), and I think the results hae been positive.  We run a gaming night every Thursday for a (now largish) growing group of people, currently M&M 2E but we started with a few months of D&D 3.5.  The idea is to get new gamers interested in different things, so they can see what else is out there (Most of the group who I didn't know before were either RPG virgins or had just played D&D).

One day I'll turn this place into the FLGS for the area (Chesham, Bucks, in the UK, for anyone who's interested).  For now, it's me trying hard when gamers come in, and trying to educate my colleagues a little.  Currently the best aprt is being able to go on gaming-related forums and sites during quiet spots and claim semi-legitimately that I'm working...  But I do have faith that a poor game store can improve, since I'm living it. :)

Quote from: GlauGI found myself in a position where I could try and turn a not-especially good gaming store into something better late last year, when I got my current job at a bookstore that also sells RPGs, CCGs/miniatures and some board games.  Unfortunately, since one of the other bookstores owned by the same people did well selling RPGs and stuff, upper management forced gaming-related things on everyone else, with mixed results.  I convinced my manager to let me stock a wider variety of games (We originally only had some D&D 3.5 core books), and I think the results hae been positive.  We run a gaming night every Thursday for a (now largish) growing group of people, currently M&M 2E but we started with a few months of D&D 3.5.  The idea is to get new gamers interested in different things, so they can see what else is out there (Most of the group who I didn't know before were either RPG virgins or had just played D&D).

One day I'll turn this place into the FLGS for the area (Chesham, Bucks, in the UK, for anyone who's interested).  For now, it's me trying hard when gamers come in, and trying to educate my colleagues a little.  Currently the best aprt is being able to go on gaming-related forums and sites during quiet spots and claim semi-legitimately that I'm working...  But I do have faith that a poor game store can improve, since I'm living it. :)

Is it reasonable for a shop to expect me to continue buying from them instead of ordering through something like Amazon if they have to order what i want in every time, instead of already having it in stock. So i continue to offer them my support if they can't do anything for me (assume there are no other factors in their favour, such as gaming space or discounts or whatever)

Quote from: signoftheserpentIs it reasonable for a shop to expect me to continue buying from them instead of ordering through something like Amazon if they have to order what i want in every time, instead of already having it in stock. So i continue to offer them my support if they can't do anything for me (assume there are no other factors in their favour, such as gaming space or discounts or whatever)

Not at all, certainly in that situation.  If they don't take on board the fact that there's demand for something after getting a couple of orders for it, they probably deserve what comes after.  If a store's not doing what it needs to do to keep customers, it's a Change or die situation.  If they don't change, that's their problem.  I would however say that you should at least keep an occasional eye on the place, since all it might take is them hiring a member of staff who knows their games better (or listening to someone who does and tries to help) to make the difference later on.

Quote from: GlauGNot at all, certainly in that situation.  If they don't take on board the fact that there's demand for something after getting a couple of orders for it, they probably deserve what comes after.  If a store's not doing what it needs to do to keep customers, it's a Change or die situation.  If they don't change, that's their problem.  I would however say that you should at least keep an occasional eye on the place, since all it might take is them hiring a member of staff who knows their games better (or listening to someone who does and tries to help) to make the difference later on.

Yeah, it's amazing the difference a single staff member can make. A friend of mine worked briefly at a branch of Forbidden Planet. During his stay he promoted the shit out of the rpg shelf, expanding it from a few dusty old books to a decent, well presented section that attracted a lot of custom. He continually talked up releases both new and old, ordered in all requests promptly and brought an infectious enthusiasm to a part of the store that had previously been languishing. An encyclopaedic knowledge of the industry coupled with genuine love of the hobby can work wonders on suspicious parents wondering about those strange books and funny dice little Gary seems so keen on.

Is it reasonable for a shop to expect the customer to tell them what to order and what they should be stocking all the time, if they themselves can't get it right?

If yes, how? How do you present that to people already lacking in the understanding needed to do the job.

Quote from: signoftheserpentIs it reasonable for a shop to expect the customer to tell them what to order and what they should be stocking all the time, if they themselves can't get it right?

"Getting it right" can be a tricky one. Different areas vary widely in terms of gaming preferences. Of course there are some baseline assumptions-- games like D&D, Exalted, WFRP or NWoD tend to sell well regardless, and should be the bread and butter stock of most stores. Anticipating what will be the next best thing, or even what's popular in the local subculture requires one to listen to the customers and order accordingly. If everyone is raving about the new Iron Heroes pdf. then it might be prudent to get a few copies of the next printed supplement that becomes avaialble. The rpg 'industry' is nowhere near big enough to sustain the kind of blind ordering that many other shops can indulge in, listening to the customer base and adapting is one of the key survival skill.  

QuoteIf yes, how? How do you present that to people already lacking in the understanding needed to do the job.

The obvious answer is to employ people who know what they are doing. If I was setting up a store selling sporting goods there's no way I'd hire Augustus Fatbeard who has an angina attack just looking at a flight of stairs. Similarly a gaming store owner should be very selective when picking staff. If I were in the gaming business I'd want to be able to sit down and talk to an applicant for at least an hour about a wide range of games before even thinking of offering them a job. Suppliers, distributors and the like aren't so important at first, that's on-the-job shit that anyone with half a brain can pick up. Enthusiasm and passion for hobby, though? A priceless commodity.

Ya see this is the response from them (and others) to criticism of the place; 'we can't be expected to stock everything' or 'we can't stock stuff if you don't tell us what you want or tell us about it' or 'we can't know every game ever' (which is actually not the point - it's about knowing what at least is popular or is creating a buzz), 'you have to tell the shop what you want'.

That's the reasn i ask; if i go in and say 'why aren't you selling x', the answer will be 'we've never heard of x' (more than likely), or 'we can order it for you'. i don't want to order it, i want to buy it. if i wanted to order it i'd have done so at home online without traipsing into the shop on spec in hope.

Even then they will only be ordering with the assumption that it will only sell to me. Nothing changes.

It's all so depressing!

There's one store less than half an hour drive from me which is supposedly really good, but I'm not on speaking terms with the owners since they moved to the new location, so haven't been in to check it out.

The other 'real' store near me is an hour away, so I barely ever get there.

That leaves the store which is a five minute drive from my house (half hour walk) but it's a book/gift shop with an RPG ghetto in the corner.

Needless to say, I buy most of my RPG material online these days.  Between Amazon, FRPGames, NobleKnight and ThoughtHammer, it's really just easier that way.

Quote from: signoftheserpentYa see this is the response from them (and others) to criticism of the place; 'we can't be expected to stock everything' or 'we can't stock stuff if you don't tell us what you want or tell us about it' or 'we can't know every game ever' (which is actually not the point - it's about knowing what at least is popular or is creating a buzz), 'you have to tell the shop what you want'.

That's the reasn i ask; if i go in and say 'why aren't you selling x', the answer will be 'we've never heard of x' (more than likely), or 'we can order it for you'. i don't want to order it, i want to buy it. if i wanted to order it i'd have done so at home online without traipsing into the shop on spec in hope.

Even then they will only be ordering with the assumption that it will only sell to me. Nothing changes.

It's all so depressing!

It sounds like you have a pretty dire shop (or shops) near you, it must be said...  Mind my asking you to name and shame?  I'm kind of curious, the only one I know of in the Southwestish area is Esdevium's one in...  Aldershot?  Part of me wants to pay a visit so I know what to avoid doing. >_>;

Is it a specialty games shop, or a comic/book shop that's expanded into stocking RP/gaming stuff?  If they give you those kinds of answers without at least bothering to ask you "tell me more about X, what's it like/about?", it's just poor service for a specialist games shop, given the nature of the customer base.  The other question on the other hand, is what sort of stuff are you asking for...?  Is it new supplements for "core" game lines you'd expect a shop to have, new games, random indie whatevers?  And if they don't have what you want, what /do/ they have?

I have a lot more sympathy for somewhere that's tried branching out into selling RPGs (like a book/gift/toy shop or similar) but doesn't know entirely what they're doing rather than somewhere that's set itself up as a specialist games shop (CCGs,board games, RPGs) and is just poorly run due to lack of foresight.  I agree with Drew on the staffing front.

Quote from: Abyssal MawGame shops are dead as of 1998. If I can't get it online or at Amazon.. I usually don't get it.

 oh so WRONG - our game store seem to be doing pretty well.
 We opened 3 and a half years ago on Halloween night 2003.

- Ed C.

Quote from: jgantsNah, as long as there are gamers with no real job skills and parents with money, there will always be new, poorly-run shops opening up to take the place of those that closed.

 My god this thread of full of cynics.

 How in the hell did I miss this on first go-round?

- Ed C.

 See my avatar ? those are the shelves of a thriving game store behind me.

Every cynic is, at heart, a fallen romantic.

Think on that before condemning the online shopper.

Quote from: GlauGIt sounds like you have a pretty dire shop (or shops) near you, it must be said...  Mind my asking you to name and shame?  I'm kind of curious, the only one I know of in the Southwestish area is Esdevium's one in...  Aldershot?  Part of me wants to pay a visit so I know what to avoid doing. >_>;

Is it a specialty games shop, or a comic/book shop that's expanded into stocking RP/gaming stuff?  If they give you those kinds of answers without at least bothering to ask you "tell me more about X, what's it like/about?", it's just poor service for a specialist games shop, given the nature of the customer base.  The other question on the other hand, is what sort of stuff are you asking for...?  Is it new supplements for "core" game lines you'd expect a shop to have, new games, random indie whatevers?  And if they don't have what you want, what /do/ they have?

I have a lot more sympathy for somewhere that's tried branching out into selling RPGs (like a book/gift/toy shop or similar) but doesn't know entirely what they're doing rather than somewhere that's set itself up as a specialist games shop (CCGs,board games, RPGs) and is just poorly run due to lack of foresight.  I agree with Drew on the staffing front.

well I wouldn't normally, but the company concerned already know since I've argued the point on their failed website (past tense; even when it was working they didn't seem to bother and I couldn't even find stock that i'd actually seen on the shelf). It's the local branch of Travelling Man. I've all but given up on them really (and it ain't just their lack of rpg ability either; we tried in vain for a year to do some stuff with ccg's they seemed keen on. All for naught.)

Quote from: signoftheserpentwell I wouldn't normally, but the company concerned already know since I've argued the point on their failed website (past tense; even when it was working they didn't seem to bother and I couldn't even find stock that i'd actually seen on the shelf). It's the local branch of Travelling Man. I've all but given up on them really (and it ain't just their lack of rpg ability either; we tried in vain for a year to do some stuff with ccg's they seemed keen on. All for naught.)

...Ah, it becomes a bit clearer now.  I've never been to a branch of TM that I've thought was remotely interesting.  Saw the one in York last year while up there for a training thing, and I've seen another one or two around the country, none of them really grabbed my attention in a good way.  The York one is just...  really spartan, and not in the "Tonight we dine in Hell!" way.  I think you just drew the really short straw there.

The local one is a clean place and the people who work there aren't offensive and smelly; they just aren't the right people for a place like this. It just saddens me that the hobby market is catered for by people who take the path of least retail resistance and think stuff will sell itself.

Quote from: KoltarMy god this thread of full of cynics.

 How in the hell did I miss this on first go-round?

- Ed C.

 See my avatar ? those are the shelves of a thriving game store behind me.

Yes, but game stores are a) in the decline, b) highly regional in nature. Just because you work for a thriving game store (that has not yet passed the five year mark - come back and talk to me when you're in year six) doesn't mean that some regions have not had the issues that posters in this thread have indicated. Like Drew pointed out about London stores, the metro Los Angeles region has seen a decline in quantity and quality of game stores in the last few years and has very few game stores compared to the 10 million people in the metro area.

Quote from: Koltaroh so WRONG - our game store seem to be doing pretty well.
 We opened 3 and a half years ago on Halloween night 2003.

- Ed C.

Well I agree with you on this point.

Are game shops dead? No.  Are they on the decline?  Yes.

Mostly because bad game shops are finally going under and the state of the hobby.   I think an industry report said that almost half of the game shops went under in the last year.

However as long as there are good game shops the shops will stick around.

Quote from: WilYes, but game stores are a) in the decline, b) highly regional in nature. Just because you work for a thriving game store (that has not yet passed the five year mark - come back and talk to me when you're in year six) doesn't mean that some regions have not had the issues that posters in this thread have indicated. Like Drew pointed out about London stores, the metro Los Angeles region has seen a decline in quantity and quality of game stores in the last few years and has very few game stores compared to the 10 million people in the metro area.

Woops, you said exactly what I said (But before I did).   You were so right I repeated you!

But seriously you are correct on what you have said.  I think I have even heard of game stores that were really good but because of the situation of the hobby and other factors they still went under.

Even having a good store doesnt guarantee you will stick around.  If the hobby stays in the slump it is in it could cause people to buy less and take out even good stores.

The good thing about the slump is at least it has taken out a great number of bad stores.

A bad game shop creates a bad perception about all aspects of the hobby IMO.

Quote from: signoftheserpentA bad game shop creates a bad perception about all aspects of the hobby IMO.

Most certainly. There was a game store in Pomona that my ex-girlfriend and I found once wandering around the downtown area. They stocked mostly Warhammer stuff, but the store was your prototypical "bad game store". Dark, cluttered, the clients smelled and were loud and the staff was rude. In fact, when we walked in I swear that every single person playing at one of the tables stopped what they were doing to look up at her. A miniature may have even fallen over to underscore their shock and amazement that a woman was in their store. They didn't utter a sound the whole time we were in there. I should note we had her tween son and daughter with us - prime candidates for getting interested in games. The staff acted like they were being put upon when either one of them asked a question about a product (I intentionally had them ask the staff instead of answering questions myself). As far as the staff was concerned they had a yuppie family that wandered in randomly instead of a veteran gamer and his girlfriend and kids in the store. She didn't want to go into any game store with me after that experience - I had to explain to her that wasn't a place I would normally have frequented.

To be honest if i ever walk into a place like that again i will make my thoughts known. That's just offensive.

Quote from: WilMost certainly. There was a game store in Pomona that my ex-girlfriend and I found once wandering around the downtown area. They stocked mostly Warhammer stuff, but the store was your prototypical "bad game store". Dark, cluttered, the clients smelled and were loud and the staff was rude. In fact, when we walked in I swear that every single person playing at one of the tables stopped what they were doing to look up at her. A miniature may have even fallen over to underscore their shock and amazement that a woman was in their store. They didn't utter a sound the whole time we were in there. I should note we had her tween son and daughter with us - prime candidates for getting interested in games. The staff acted like they were being put upon when either one of them asked a question about a product (I intentionally had them ask the staff instead of answering questions myself). As far as the staff was concerned they had a yuppie family that wandered in randomly instead of a veteran gamer and his girlfriend and kids in the store. She didn't want to go into any game store with me after that experience - I had to explain to her that wasn't a place I would normally have frequented.

I would imagine that also happened for the reason you mentioned and for the fact that many of them have probably never been that close to a women before.

I have to ask- Is that store still open?

Quote from: signoftheserpentA bad game shop creates a bad perception about all aspects of the hobby IMO.

correct.  If a would be gamer walks in and sees a bad shop with stinky people who are rude they are going to turn around and walk out and the hobby in turn may loose a potential gamer.

Quote from: Blue DevilI would imagine that also happened for the reason you mentioned and for the fact that many of them have probably never been that close to a women before.

I have to ask- Is that store still open?

Not to my knowledge, no. The Gameology store I mentioned upthread probably took it's place.

I've got a few game stores around me that are pretty good. A couple newer ones and a few that have been in business for decades. They were mostly clean and had courteous knowledgeable staff. Not to mention that many of them were busy most times I've visited. A couple of them are Comic/Game stores but most of them are Game stores first or primarily. My favorite doesn't even stock comics.

In no small part my kids are gamers due to the enthusiasm of the employees at a couple of my stores.

Quote from: WilNot to my knowledge, no. The Gameology store I mentioned upthread probably took it's place.

Well see that's good then. The bad game stores go out of business hopefully to be replaced with better ones.

Quote from: WilShe didn't want to go into any game store with me after that experience - I had to explain to her that wasn't a place I would normally have frequented.

My wife still won't go with me into a game store, after bad experiences nearly 15 years ago.  Another reason I buy 90% of my games online these days.

My local game store has always been good -- open gaming relatively visible, great staff, and great customers (generally).  They sell RPGs but hardly as a main line as the boardgames and collectibles have a much higher margin and are often more compelling to new customers when seen in play.  They do, however, stock and know RPGs and more than just d20 + White Wolf.

Recently they just got better.  I saw SotC on the shelves along with Fudge dice, Conspiracy X, Qin, and a host of other off-the-beaten-path games.  And cooler still they seem to be selling.

Drexoll is probably a rarity but it's a model for success.  They do enough business that a second store was recently opened and is also turning a nice profit.  I like it when crap game stores die because there's a chance that something like this will fill the vacuum.

Quote from: KoltarMy god this thread of full of cynics.

 How in the hell did I miss this on first go-round?

- Ed C.

 See my avatar ? those are the shelves of a thriving game store behind me.

You're kind of taking what I said out of context.  The text you quoted was in response to the claim that eventually all the bad shops will go out of business.

I was just saying that a lot of bad shops come from slackers with family money (and there's no shortage of those), so there will likely be new crappy stores popping up to replace the old ones that finally die off.

I'm not making any claims about the population of mediocre to good stores in the industry.  They are outside the boundries of my hypothesis on the reproduction cycle of crappy gaming stores  :D

Okay, silly smiling dogface guy ....that makes sense.

 Just what Do you call that avatar??

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarOkay, silly smiling dogface guy ....that makes sense.

 Just what Do you call that avatar??

- Ed C.

A smiling pug, of course.  ;)

I personally don't like being given the option of only ordering stuff in a shop; i can do that online. Unfortunately the LGS doesnt' even want to set up a website that will allow me to compromise and order through them! Do they just not want my money?

Quote from: signoftheserpentI personally don't like being given the option of only ordering stuff in a shop; i can do that online. Unfortunately the LGS doesnt' even want to set up a website that will allow me to compromise and order through them! Do they just not want my money?

 You got two options, maybe three:

 1) Keep complaining about it online here. Not much will happen...but I guess it might make you feel better to vent a little.

2) Offer to help that game store to set up a website or work with them to make that game store better.

 - OR -

3) Have the chutzpah to take the gamble - and START YOUR OWN Game Store.

- Ed C.

What if i choose neither? Will something untoward happen?

Incidentally, I applied for the position of games specialist when the shop first opened. For once, and in all honesty, I was the best candidate (the person who got the job admitted to me, though he knew not who i was, that he was knew to games when he satarted after I asked him about some products I was interested in). Unfortunately they left my application (sent in an envelope they had adressed) in their office - an office they never checked for messages or to read their email (which i had sent for three weeks in lieu of a phone number) or indeed anything, all while setting the shop up. Talk about fucked up.

It's not sour grapes tho, the shop really is shit now. Early on they had much more stuff. Should have hired me though.

I have, like so many before me, thought of starting a games store. Unfortunately not only do I not know about running a shop, there is nowhere round here that could support such a place. Counting this place there are 3 shop selling rpgs locally (though it would be fair to call them comic shops); another would be suicide.

I have no desire or intention to help them at all. If they want to hire me that's fine, helping them is not practical and I'm not a web designer at all. Nor should it be up to me to solve their problems.

And I didn't start this thread believing it would change the world :D

Quote from: KoltarYou got two options, maybe three:

 1) Keep complaining about it online here. Not much will happen...but I guess it might make you feel better to vent a little.

2) Offer to help that game store to set up a website or work with them to make that game store better.

 - OR -

3) Have the chutzpah to take the gamble - and START YOUR OWN Game Store.

- Ed C.

You missed a couple other options:

4) Shop somewhere else and let them go out of business

5) Shop online- get the games you want, cheaper

And as for starting your own game store, It would be easier to take the money you were going to use to start a game store, put it in a pile and light it on fire.  Game stores these days rarely make it (I think I read that half the game stores out there closed down within the last year due to the downturn in the hobby).  If you want to live in poverty start a game store.  Otherwise he would be smarter to take that money and start a business that could actually turn a decent profit.

Here's another q: if stock rpg's then why aren't you stocking the new releases that are at least getting good press, good buzz, even good reviews (where possible). IU can't really understand shops who don't order such games in. They argue that its too risky claiming the usual arguments about industry dwcline, dwindling demand. Either sell the damn games or don't, but don't have an rpg shelf with stagnant stock (half of which won't sell because the corebook is out of stock - or its just the kind of crap i've already mentioned).

To quote the mighty Wham! 'if you're gonna do it, do it right...'

I just can't understand rpg retailers; either sell them or dont' waste my time. If selling a game like HEX is too risky (seems to be popular at least it's gotten good revews and looks fairly sharp), then surely you're in the wrong business.

Quote from: Koltar2) Offer to help that game store to set up a website or work with them to make that game store better.

This is taken from the Kevin Simbieda Book of Business Practices.

Seriously? Fuck that. They can hire their own web designer and retail consultant.

Quote3) Have the chutzpah to take the gamble - and START YOUR OWN Game Store.

I'm too busy burning my money to stay warm. How about this:

Order stuff online and let the craptacular brick and mortar stores die in peace?

Quote from: Blue DevilAnd as for starting your own game store, It would be easier to take the money you were going to use to start a game store, put it in a pile and light it on fire.

LOL@thinking alike.

Quote from: WilThis is taken from the Kevin Simbieda Book of Business Practices.

Seriously? Fuck that. They can hire their own web designer and retail consultant.

Exactly.  When does it become our job to teach them how to run their own business.  Either they learn to compete or die.

Quote from: WilI'm too busy burning my money to stay warm. How about this:

Order stuff online and let the craptacular brick and mortar stores die in peace?

Yep.  Let the bad game store die and hopefully a good game store will come in and take their place.

Or you can just continue to buy online and get your games cheap.

Quote from: WilLOL@thinking alike.

What can I say? Great minds think alike!