So DS is getting a lot of love in a lot of places but I was wondering...
what other settings exist with the same tone/theme and feel?
system less important.
I'll have to Wikipedia "Dark Sun" and get back to you as I've only ever read the name on this forum and have no idea what it is aside from "a D&D setting."
Edit: Looked it up. Sounds like "D&D Mad Max" or something. Can't say I know any others like it. But if you like Dark Sun, why not just use it or adapt it?
White Wolf magazine, back in their early, Pre-Vampire days, did a review of DS where they called it "Mad Max meets Conan on Dune". I love Dark Sun and yet and I found that both hysterically funny and very accurate. Except for leaving out Barsoom.
Just make up your own setting that rips off DS and go apeshit. Make one of Athas' moons the Death Star. Rename the barbarian class "Cannibal". Reskin 5th edition Goliaths (Boooooooring) as four-armed Green Martians. Put "Chainmail bikini" on the equipment list.
Go nuts.
Quote from: Dumarest;977886But if you like Dark Sun, why not just use it or adapt it?
It's more of a curiousity question.
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;977888White Wolf magazine, back in their early, Pre-Vampire days, did a review of DS where they called it "Mad Max meets Conan on Dune". I love Dark Sun and yet and I found that both hysterically funny and very accurate. Except for leaving out Barsoom.
Just make up your own setting that rips off DS and go apeshit. Make one of Athas' moons the Death Star. Rename the barbarian class "Cannibal". Reskin 5th edition Goliaths (Boooooooring) as four-armed Green Martians. Put "Chainmail bikini" on the equipment list.
Go nuts.
lol I'm not asking for Play purposes it's just a curiosity question.
http://www.dragonkingsproject.com/
Quote from: tenbones;977896http://www.dragonkingsproject.com/
That's been recommended elsewhere and looked interesting but is it a dead project...not that you necessarily need more than a core book.
I'm on the record with my current group - many of whom I've GMed for over 30-years, and precisely ZERO of them agree with me when I say, "Dark Sun" is the best (and my favorite) D&D setting of all time. To a person - they all detest it. Even last week, they told me they'd rather play Maztica over Dark Sun.
I'm considering stealth-running Dark Sun with all the names changed, using Savage Worlds, someday. Muahahahaha
Quote from: tenbones;977907I'm on the record with my current group ...they all detest it... they told me they'd rather play Maztica over Dark Sun.
What the fuck is wrong with these toad-lickers?
(Not that Maztica isn't cool ).
Love Dark Sun. There's a pretty good 5e conversion out there on the interwebs and even an PbtA one.
I saw someone on here KS an OSR setting that sounded very DS.
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;977928What the fuck is wrong with these toad-lickers?
(Not that Maztica isn't cool ).
After having given it much thought... I think the reason is that I'm a pretty big on environmental "realism". My games have historically been pretty gritty, and it's only in the last decade or so that I've *really* tried to lighten things up (a bit). And history has proven to be my undoing. The mere prospect of doing Dark Sun with some of them gives them visions of Lawrence of Arabia crawling across the Sun's Anvil, while getting shot at by harrying Elf Nomads intent on eating them. I think they believe I'll punish them (which of course I wouldn't per se. I want people to respect the conceits of the setting and play accordingly). And for some it's just completely unappealing. On that, I have no idea why.
Darksun to me, is absolute homage to John Carter, with a dash of Dune and maybe a little bit of Star Wars, tossed in, plus a whole lot of original coolness overlaying classic D&D. They really borked it up in later editions. But give me the classic boxset and the supplements and I'm in hog heaven.
I love Dark Sun.
I enjoyed the 4e version, but the original was so damn awesome.
A Savage Worlds conversion sounds good too. I would think about using the Stormbringer ruleset myself.
I love John Carter/Sword & Planet. I love Mad Max/survivalist. I love Dune. And Conan. I really don't like Dark Sun though. For me it's one of many TSR settings that just hits the wrong note. Spelljammer. Birthright. They take what should be cool and somehow make it lame.
Quote from: S'mon;978013I love John Carter/Sword & Planet. I love Mad Max/survivalist. I love Dune. And Conan. I really don't like Dark Sun though. For me it's one of many TSR settings that just hits the wrong note. Spelljammer. Birthright. They take what should be cool and somehow make it lame.
Love Birthright, it could use a better system but the setting was great.
Dark Sun is a big mash up. Planetary Romance, post apocalyptic yet has an ancient world feel, and yes a dash of desperate survival
Quote from: Spinachcat;978003A Savage Worlds conversion sounds good too.
I got a selfmade conversion document of about 22+ pages, that is currently under playtesting. Anyone who wants it, PM me!
I think that the "problem" that most players have with Dark Sun is that it is designed to kill you. The desert is out to get you, the creatures are badass, the world can be a really grim place and many players don't like that. I had similar issues with players and Ravenloft; they liked the concept of a vampire setting but the reality sucked for them because it was so grim all of the time.
I owned the original boxed set and really enjoyed reading it (and the novels). Neither I nor my players had much interest in playing in it though. /shrug
Quote from: finarvyn;978046I think that the "problem" that most players have with Dark Sun is that it is designed to kill you. The desert is out to get you, the creatures are badass, the world can be a really grim place and many players don't like that. I had similar issues with players and Ravenloft; they liked the concept of a vampire setting but the reality sucked for them because it was so grim all of the time.
I agree with this. That's one of the reasons my players have always been hesitant about me doing a modern campaign set there. Which is weird to me since I'm nowhere near as ruthless as I used to be - and they will even admit that. The goal should be to make Athas be exactly like you put it, but make it engageable for the players. I admit that's a fine balancing act without turning Dark Sun into a basic re-skin of "standard" D&D.
But yes, it is deadly and unforgiving. Life is soul-crushingly cheap, existence is desperate (at the beginning) but there is a lot of mystery and wonder baked into it that is worth exploring.
Not to side-track too much - Ravenloft has this effect on my group too. But I think it has more to do with the system playing that genre of game than the setting itself, at least for us.
Maztica is awful.
I would have liked to have seen Dark Sun rewritten to be done without psionics. IMO, magic is versatile enough that psionics are not needed, and most versions of psionics in D&D suck much ass.
Dark Sun is the only version of D&D where psionics make sense and don't suck.
Quote from: Voros;979210Dark Sun is the only version of D&D where psionics make sense and don't suck.
I'll agree that they worked it in a manner that makes sense for the setting, but the rules for psionic still sucked donkey balls from 1st-3rd edition. I never tried them in 4e and I don't have any idea what psionic rules are out for 5e.
I liked 2e's The Complete Psionic Handbook and Dark Sun's tweaks improved it.
I too think Dark Sun is one of TSRs finest settings. It was really unique. Kind of Thundar/Dune/Mad max weirdness wit D&D. I'd probably even play 5e if they came out with a Dark Sun supplement for it.
Quote from: HappyDaze;979252I'll agree that they worked it in a manner that makes sense for the setting, but the rules for psionic still sucked donkey balls from 1st-3rd edition. I never tried them in 4e and I don't have any idea what psionic rules are out for 5e.
I thought the 3.5 rules were pretty good. I never liked them in the 1E-2E era. I love the PF rules from Dreamscarred Press.
Speaking of Dragon Kings:
The gazetteer was 30 pages of "art" with something close to 0 gaming content. Some snippets of ideas that might form the core of a setting if I wanted to develop one from scratch, but really disappointing.
The world book is one of those PDFs that is so full of backgrounds on every page that my poor little chromebook or tablet for gaming reading chokes when I try to scroll through it, so not something I've read through at all.
Quote from: Naburimannu;979768Speaking of Dragon Kings:
The gazetteer was 30 pages of "art" with something close to 0 gaming content. Some snippets of ideas that might form the core of a setting if I wanted to develop one from scratch, but really disappointing.
The world book is one of those PDFs that is so full of backgrounds on every page that my poor little chromebook or tablet for gaming reading chokes when I try to scroll through it, so not something I've read through at all.
That's a shame. That said I never bought it because I'm perfectly happy with the old boxset and 2e supplements.
I only know the first edition of Dark Sun. Loved it as a setting for other games.
Quote from: tenbones;977907To a person - they all detest it. Even last week, they told me they'd rather play Maztica over Dark Sun.
Ugh, I'd rather play ANYTHING but Maztica.
However I can sympathize with people having issues with Dark Sun.
I do have a couple of pet peeves about it:
1. Psionics, it felt tacked on
2. It feels like "Oh, let's rip-off ancient Sumer and make it Grim Dark Fantasy"
Obviously YMMV
... that said it really broke the mould of what everybody expected of D&D. And that's probably it's most fascinating feature.
The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.
I am deleting my content.
I recommend you do the same.
Can''t see how Psionics is tacked on in DS, loads of the monsters and races are based around it, magic is set up in relation to it and it is central to the history/setting.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;980405... waiting for the part where that's a bad thing.
It's not bad, but it's kinda unoriginal for a setting that is considered oh so original.
It's like talking to a guy that wants you to know about this new setting he made: there's Suaron the black lord that made this ring, the ring got lost and found by the fallen middling Gallum...
Quote from: Voros;980407Can''t see how Psionics is tacked on in DS, loads of the monsters and races are based around it, magic is set up in relation to it and it is central to the history/setting.
As I said YMMV
The right answer is Tekúmel.
Also Zothique, Dune, Barsoom, Carcosa, DEN , etc.
If you want 10 alternatives for inspiration:
http://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com.br/2015/10/mad-sun-part-i-inspirations.html
Quote from: Eric Diaz;980712The right answer is Tekúmel.
Also Zothique, Dune, Barsoom, Carcosa, DEN , etc.
If you want 10 alternatives for inspiration:
http://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com.br/2015/10/mad-sun-part-i-inspirations.html
and in one masterstroke post... we've been defeated.
Quote from: finarvyn;978046I think that the "problem" that most players have with Dark Sun is that it is designed to kill you. The desert is out to get you, the creatures are badass, the world can be a really grim place and many players don't like that. I had similar issues with players and Ravenloft; they liked the concept of a vampire setting but the reality sucked for them because it was so grim all of the time.
I have never carefully read the rules, so I honestly do not know if the rules support this situation or not. But I have read the world overview and such and my impression is,
"Given the external survival pressures, the infighting, and all the rest, it is not realistic that the PC races/civilizations exist in its present form in this situation." Eaten by elves, starved, dies of thirst, broken into subsistence-based settlements, I don't know. Whether it is too hard to be a PC given the monsters and opponents in the setting, I don't know.
Quote from: tenbones;981290and in one masterstroke post... we've been defeated.
Very nice of you to say, kind sir! Humble in victory and graceful in defeat, I see! :D