I've got the opportunity to be a player in an upcoming campaign, and I realized after we had the 'session 0' that I missed asking some things. So I made a thing. I've decided to start pouring some effort into Youtube again, and I'm enjoying it. Now that I've released into the wild, I'm going to toss my 10 points out, and y'all can tell my what I missed:
(Some of this is cut and paste from my script.)
- Define "Adventurers" - working for the authorities, free-roaming mercenaries or divinely appointed champions? Widely welcome heroes for hire or barely tolerated useful outsiders?
- The GAWDS - Who are they, how many do we know about, and do they meddle all the time, talking directly to the people of the world like the Greek Pantheon, or are they subtle, sending signs and gifts only to those who listen?
- Magic level - Hi-magic, low magic, no or unknown magic. Are your cities alight with magical streetlamps and you can expect magic items on the regular, or are wizards shunned, and magic a
hidden thing, not trusted and little understood. - Tech Level - Medieval, Renaissance or???
- Classes and Races - Which ones are in, which ones are out, what books are you using (5e for example).
- Uncomfortable Situations - I bitched about X cards during the video, and basically want anyone that has a no-go 'thing' to bring it up NOW and not bring the game to a screeching halt so we can all be their therapist. I also advocate 'fade to black' for sex in the game. (Got a stupid joke in)
- Languages - do all travelers speak elvish since its long-established and slow changing, or is there a pidgin trade tongue? How many languages are in the campaign area?
- Money - Gold standard, silver standard paper money or even credit? Is a gold coin a gold coin world round, or will they need to hit a moneychanger everytime they cross borders? Do I need to track every expense, or is there a weekly or monthly 'cost of living'?
- Supplies - Do I get a 'refill' everytime we camp, or are we going to track every arrow, bite of food and how much water we have? Expect that in harsh situations, this can change.
- Encumbrance, or where exactly ARE you carrying three halberds? This is another one where most DMs will handwave until you start abusing it.
If y'all would like, I'll point you to the video; I'm not linking it now, because I'm legit not begging for views, but I'd like to see what I may have missed.
I think that's an extensive list. I'd be happy enough with the first five. Asking about the setting is a great idea, but I think I'd want to know some of that even before session zero. You GM should have a one-pager describing the game including a genre description.
I'd be worried if the GM struggled to answer any of the questions in your list. I get the impression that some would, based on a recent experience. Link your video.
Quote from: Vidgrip on May 10, 2021, 06:41:27 PM
I think that's an extensive list. I'd be happy enough with the first five. Asking about the setting is a great idea, but I think I'd want to know some of that even before session zero. You GM should have a one-pager describing the game including a genre description.
I'd be worried if the GM struggled to answer any of the questions in your list. I get the impression that some would, based on a recent experience. Link your video.
Yeah, just link it, man. Don't be shy.
I think that's way too much info for me, personally. I don't expect a GM to have all their ducks in a row. Just enough to get the game rolling. Most importantly, you can't easily summarize a GM's style in a few sentences. Sometimes you gotta invest a few game sessions to find it out.
I appreciate it. Shy isn't the problem, I just didn't want to seem like I'm just looking for clicks. https://youtu.be/UhtsKtjJvUs
I'll confess, I went -slightly click-baity- with 10 things you MUST answer, blah-blah-blah.
Quote from: Vidgrip on May 10, 2021, 06:41:27 PM
I think that's an extensive list. I'd be happy enough with the first five. Asking about the setting is a great idea, but I think I'd want to know some of that even before session zero. You GM should have a one-pager describing the game including a genre description.
I'd be worried if the GM struggled to answer any of the questions in your list. I get the impression that some would, based on a recent experience. Link your video.
Yeah, there's a whole new crop of new DMs; (for me it's DM, system/rules regardless) and some of them seem woefully underprepared; even getting a setting answer can be a stumper.
I literally am struggling with a way to concisely 'complain' that, IF you're game is a multi-book 'system' keep the core books setting agnostic. If it's a one-book and done, sure. Lion and Dragon (for example, not stroking Pundit, the add is right there) is about right, since classes et. al are setting specific. GURPS does it well, but its too dry and mechanical for some folks, and puts a lot of the onus is on the GM to tell them what parts they can and can't use.
Hi, LiferGamer.
Quote from: LiferGamer on May 10, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
I've got the opportunity to be a player in an upcoming campaign, and I realized after we had the 'session 0' that I missed asking some things. So I made a thing. I've decided to start pouring some effort into Youtube again, and I'm enjoying it. Now that I've released into the wild, I'm going to toss my 10 points out, and y'all can tell my what I missed:
(Some of this is cut and paste from my script.)
- Define "Adventurers" - working for the authorities, free-roaming mercenaries or divinely appointed champions? Widely welcome heroes for hire or barely tolerated useful outsiders?
I think there's a big set of questions that's either part of this or with this is what adventures are going to be like. Thinking back over my different fantasy campaigns:
One was set in the middle of a world apocalypse as the surface world was taken over by dragons, in a genre a bit like "Walking Dead" where the PCs are traveling with the survivors of civilization, trying to find a place to live.
One was high fantasy where the PCs were trying to re-establish a long-lost temple, fighting against forces opposed to it.
One was a steampunk game where the PCs were on the run - going to different spots on the globe in their airship, uncovering the story behind a big conspiracy.
One was in an alternate timeline of Middle Earth, where the characters are helping the fight against Sauron in a different way.
One was set in Harn, where the PCs were missionaries setting up the first temple to their god in a new city.
I think it's hard to capture the vision differences in a bunch of questions, but I can think of some key points, like:
- Will PCs mostly be wandering around the wilderness fighting monsters and looking for treasure? Or tactical action between different factions? Social intrigue? Some mix?
- Will adventures be about taking missions? Or going to locations and interacting with whatever is there?
- Are adventures going to be largely fixed in nature, or more open-ended?
Quote from: LiferGamer on May 10, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
I've got the opportunity to be a player in an upcoming campaign, and I realized after we had the 'session 0' that I missed asking some things.
I'm confused why you would consider this information to be part of "session 0". Most of this list would be part of the DM's pitch for the campaign, i.e. things you'd already have agreed to before even joining the game. While #6 should be handled through private emails or one-on-one conversations. Not something to bring up in front of the whole group.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on May 10, 2021, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: LiferGamer on May 10, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
I've got the opportunity to be a player in an upcoming campaign, and I realized after we had the 'session 0' that I missed asking some things.
I'm confused why you would consider this information to be part of "session 0". Most of this list would be part of the DM's pitch for the campaign, i.e. things you'd already have agreed to before even joining the game. While #6 should be handled through private emails or one-on-one conversations. Not something to bring up in front of the whole group.
I agree here. The first 4 feel more like both setup info and "Common Knowlege" things.
6 is something the DM needs to determine if it should be talked about or not and when, Some campaigns have nothing oddball in them. But also many DMs expect the players to be able to handle a few mild curveballs and not screech in PTSD trauma. As a DM its usually ME laying down the law to curb the players. Not the other way round as I am not fond of foul mouthery at my table and I state this up front to the whole group before a campaign starts..
5, 7 and on are system mechanics things and a factor of how lenient or not a DM is. I usually make sure the players are aware that they do indeed need food and rest and they have a carrying limit. Past that long as no one is trying to abuse the system its pretty open.
Dragon Storm on the other hand has a very strict carrying and rations system and so the players need to stock up, or be able to hunt, forage or otherwise provide.
I tried to make Point number 6 fairly broad but things like sex in the game comes up often enough that I think it should at least be mentioned early maybe not a session zero, but I am very often surprised that players who are pretending to be brave explorers that are willing to enter the lair of hostile creatures come off as wimps.
I can't really respond well to this with the phone, I'm not much of a thumb typer, but if it's specific to the video, I didn't mean to imply that everybody are there laundry publicly, but if your DM thinks he's going to be running for example the fantasy equivalent of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and you've got a problem with explicit blood and gore, this is the ship we need to know up front.
I'm glad I watched the video because that puts a whole different spin on things. In the video this is not a list of ten things for players to demand, but a list of things the DM must be prepared to communicate. The video explains it as "ten things your players must know" by the end of session zero. It's a great video and good advice to any DM. I would only reiterate that some of those items should be explained to a potential gamer before they decide to sit for session zero, because they are so basic.
If you are thinking that this is all common sense, let me relate a recent conversation with a DM advertising his game of D&D 5e. He invited me to join and then listed the day, time, and location.
Me: "Cool! I'm an old-fart OSR gamer with very little 5e experience. Tell me about your game."
He proceeds to list the race and class of every character currently at the table. I'm clueless about half of what he said but I'm pretty sure the last character was something like "half-lawful samurai toaster-oven". Then he explains which books (using only acronyms) are acceptable as source material for character creation. I can't imagine what he would consider off-limits.
Me: "No. I mean tell me about your game world."
Him: ???
Me: "What genre of fantasy. What sort of feel are you going for?"
Him: "It's 5e"
Me: "What type of setting? High fantasy?"
Him:"Oh! It's FR"
Me: "What's that like?"
Him: "Just what's in the books."
That's as much as I could get. Of course I thanked him for the offer. He didn't need to invite me. He has plenty of people attend his game. But it made me a bit uneasy that his expectation was that I would only be interested in what class I would be allowed to play.
I'd say you dodged a bullet there, vidgrip.
My thought is that as a GM you should lay out:
1) If you're using a premade module. Some players may already be familiar with it. Yes, players can be good about IC/OOC but it can still be a pain. It also leads into ...
2) What's the campaign tone? Grim and gritty? High fantasy? Low fantasy? Lighthearted? Is this Monty Python's Holy Grail or Game of Thrones? Star Trek or Firefly?
3) What's everyone playing? You don't have to get into -details-, but have your players share their ideas with each other so you don't wind up with an all-barbarian party.
Also, 'half lawful samurai toaster oven' sounds hilarious :D
Quote from: Omega on May 10, 2021, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on May 10, 2021, 08:03:40 PM
Quote from: LiferGamer on May 10, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
I've got the opportunity to be a player in an upcoming campaign, and I realized after we had the 'session 0' that I missed asking some things.
I'm confused why you would consider this information to be part of "session 0". Most of this list would be part of the DM's pitch for the campaign, i.e. things you'd already have agreed to before even joining the game. While #6 should be handled through private emails or one-on-one conversations. Not something to bring up in front of the whole group.
I agree here. The first 4 feel more like both setup info and "Common Knowlege" things.
I've had different groups vary a lot in how much is decided before a session zero. For example, in my current session zero, the only thing we may have worked out is what system we're playing and who the GM is. We'll work out the setting and a lot of other stuff from discussion. Other times, session zero is just for character creation, and the specifics of the campaign have already been pre-decided by the GM.
I could picture a group where they don't even pre-decide who is GM, if they know the system. They just get together and shoot the shit over what they want to play and who's going to run it. Actually, I may have done this back in grade school in the 1970s, when it was easier to pick up and play.
Great video. I am now subscribed!
Thanks for the subscribe Svenhelgrim.
I'm working on the next one, why PC deaths are good for the health of the campaign, and will cover different rules/techniques for replacement characters.
Once mines in the can, I like poking around for other perspectives and blundered into another video on the same topic that I found to be cringe.
<snicker> Trigger warning - SJW haircut and she's part of the 'Femsplaining' podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkDqkGnWMoU&lc=Ugy5zxCuEIzlABHs7BR4AaABAg.9NbgUYSQvQS9Nbh7rqhaPG
Not encouraging any shitting on of her, I just struggled to get through the video, and its an interesting compare and contrast.