Quote from: ZeroSum on October 03, 2022, 12:12:39 PM
Personally I hope the current attack/saving throw mechanic stays instead of turning into another BAB system. Having the number you need to roll right there on your character sheet sped things up wonderfully when I was introducing the game to people who'd never played RPGs before. First level character, 10+ to hit AC 0. Easy peasy.

I'm with you. I'm kind of tired of this synergizing of the attack/action roll to become a universal OSR mechanism that's been happening lately in OSR games. Part of what makes ACKS unique is how it handles the action roll.

Quote from: ZeroSum on October 03, 2022, 12:12:39 PM
Personally I hope the current attack/saving throw mechanic stays instead of turning into another BAB system. Having the number you need to roll right there on your character sheet sped things up wonderfully when I was introducing the game to people who'd never played RPGs before. First level character, 10+ to hit AC 0. Easy peasy.

Well, that document was 4-5 years ago and we don't have a second edition yet so he might have abandoned it.

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 05, 2022, 10:21:28 AM

Quote from: ZeroSum on October 03, 2022, 12:12:39 PM
Personally I hope the current attack/saving throw mechanic stays instead of turning into another BAB system. Having the number you need to roll right there on your character sheet sped things up wonderfully when I was introducing the game to people who'd never played RPGs before. First level character, 10+ to hit AC 0. Easy peasy.

Well, that document was 4-5 years ago and we don't have a second edition yet so he might have abandoned it.

Quote from: ZeroSum on October 03, 2022, 12:12:39 PM
Personally I hope the current attack/saving throw mechanic stays instead of turning into another BAB system. Having the number you need to roll right there on your character sheet sped things up wonderfully when I was introducing the game to people who'd never played RPGs before. First level character, 10+ to hit AC 0. Easy peasy.

The 2nd edition is still very much in the works, but is something that is slowly worked on and playtested. Based on the playtest from a year ago, I see no mention of what you describe. There's been a lot of work to streamline some aspects, as well as combine many of the books. I haven't had a chance to really get involved with the playtest, but do chat with him from time to time. I had recently done his Kickstarter trailer for By This Axe, his Dwarven handbook. And a while back, had suggested how to take all the material (I think something like 800 pages worth of material) and gave my input on how to divide it into 3 books. He seemed to like the organization method.

Thank you for all the feedback.

Those that have 1E and access to 2E playtest is it worth upgrading to the new edition if it ever is released?

Quote from: World_Warrior on October 06, 2022, 09:56:09 AM
The 2nd edition is still very much in the works, but is something that is slowly worked on and playtested. Based on the playtest from a year ago, I see no mention of what you describe. There's been a lot of work to streamline some aspects, as well as combine many of the books. I haven't had a chance to really get involved with the playtest, but do chat with him from time to time. I had recently done his Kickstarter trailer for By This Axe, his Dwarven handbook. And a while back, had suggested how to take all the material (I think something like 800 pages worth of material) and gave my input on how to divide it into 3 books. He seemed to like the organization method.

I dropped all my Patreon's about a year ago so haven't seen any newer stuff and while I'm on the ACKS Discord and Forums I'm not very active so I might be very behind.

I skipped *By This Axe* KS for no grander reason than I'm not that big on dwarves. I think the last ACKS KS I did was *Domains at War*.

From the Patreon document a few years back the biggest changes contemplated at that time seemed to be mostly integrating optional rules from *High Fantasy Handbook*, such as revised proficiencies, criticals, hit points, healing, armor penetration, thieves skill updates, and special maneuvers.

Looking at the only thing not from HFH, PC, or Axioms is one forum rule, some clarified language, retraining proficiencies, and HD size bonuses to the mortal wounds table.  The biggest "new thing" is the variant of target 20 which you said is gone.

I'm working on stuff to start an ACKS game (I've been player only, no GMing, since the start of COVID for a variety of reasons) and I was thinking of using that doc...maybe I should go through the discord and forums to get up to date.

Certainly, I'm using the race creation and class creation rules for *The World Before* to create The Generations of Adam, The Generations of Lilith (pseudo-elves), and the Men of Renownd. Regular humans will be The Generations of Cain.

Quote from: Abraxus on October 06, 2022, 11:11:36 AM
Thank you for all the feedback.

Those that have 1E and access to 2E platters is it worth upgrading to the new edition if it ever is released?

So far I'm pretty happy with what I have. See how my now very outdated early pass at 2nd is mostly material in *Axioms* and *The High Fantasy Handbook* so you'd probably be at a healthy 1.5 with just those items. The issues of *Axioms* also provide a lot of the creation material which is well worth your time.

I'll also give a shout-out to Alexander's *Arbiter of Worlds* (https://amzn.to/3rBFjxy), his book on game mastering. Most of it is things more experienced players know, but it is well written and I picked up some new ways of doing/looking at things already in my tool kit.

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 06, 2022, 11:46:58 AM
Certainly, I'm using the race creation and class creation rules for *The World Before* to create The Generations of Adam, The Generations of Lilith (pseudo-elves), and the Men of Renownd. Regular humans will be The Generations of Cain.

This sounds very cool: is it shareable? 

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 06, 2022, 11:55:11 AM
I'll also give a shout-out to Alexander's *Arbiter of Worlds* (https://amzn.to/3rBFjxy), his book on game mastering. Most of it is things more experienced players know, but it is well written and I picked up some new ways of doing/looking at things already in my tool kit.

Also his ongoing Arbiter of Worlds Substack: https://arbiterofworlds.substack.com/

Quote from: rhialto on October 06, 2022, 12:10:16 PM

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 06, 2022, 11:46:58 AM
Certainly, I'm using the race creation and class creation rules for *The World Before* to create The Generations of Adam, The Generations of Lilith (pseudo-elves), and the Men of Renownd. Regular humans will be The Generations of Cain.

This sounds very cool: is it shareable? 

Not yet, but the elevator pitch is "Fantasy adventures between the birth of Seth and the Great Flood. Using various legends and traditions from the Fertile Crescent and Jewish and Christian sources to fill out the world of Genesis 4:10 through 6:7 for a world of adventure."

I use the idea of "Elves being the descendants of Lilith and Adam" The World After (some details on my very old blog https://peopletobe.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20World%20After) hence "Generations of Lilith".

The "Generations of Adam" at Seth and his descendants and people and right now use the Nobrians from ACKS Player's Companion for the race. Originally, "Generations of Cain" were going to be half-elves using the WoD idea of Lilith aiding Cain, in this case they would have married resulting in half-elves. Then the "Generations of Adam" would be the normal humans, but I think the change works better.

"Men of Renown" are the Nephilim, children of angels and the daughters of men. Originally, they were going to be Nobrians, but now I think I need to design more active magic than cleric magic to be their default. They are war mages so more than buffs seem natural to them.

I think human wizards will use the Eldritch magic while Daughters of Lilith will use arcane as they are creatures of chaos and don't risk the corruption human magicians would.

For the world itself, using directions the above verses and putting it all before the Great Deluge hypothesis of the Black Sea give me a world around a shrunken Black sea with elves on the north shore, humans on the south and eastern shores divided between the patriarchs mostly on the central south and regular humans on the eastern and southeastern shore.

The big "enemy" are stolen from Ken Hite's Cabal books for GURPS in the from of Qlippoth, remnants of the prior creation. The traditional ruins of D&D have the same source.

Quote from: rhialto on October 06, 2022, 12:12:14 PM
Also his ongoing Arbiter of Worlds Substack: https://arbiterofworlds.substack.com/

Missed that too...subscribed.

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 06, 2022, 12:27:45 PM
Not yet, but the elevator pitch is "Fantasy adventures between the birth of Seth and the Great Flood. Using various legends and traditions from the Fertile Crescent and Jewish and Christian sources to fill out the world of Genesis 4:10 through 6:7 for a world of adventure."

I use the idea of "Elves being the descendants of Lilith and Adam" The World After (some details on my very old blog https://peopletobe.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20World%20After) hence "Generations of Lilith".

The "Generations of Adam" at Seth and his descendants and people and right now use the Nobrians from ACKS Player's Companion for the race. Originally, "Generations of Cain" were going to be half-elves using the WoD idea of Lilith aiding Cain, in this case they would have married resulting in half-elves. Then the "Generations of Adam" would be the normal humans, but I think the change works better.

"Men of Renown" are the Nephilim, children of angels and the daughters of men. Originally, they were going to be Nobrians, but now I think I need to design more active magic than cleric magic to be their default. They are war mages so more than buffs seem natural to them.

I think human wizards will use the Eldritch magic while Daughters of Lilith will use arcane as they are creatures of chaos and don't risk the corruption human magicians would.

For the world itself, using directions the above verses and putting it all before the Great Deluge hypothesis of the Black Sea give me a world around a shrunken Black sea with elves on the north shore, humans on the south and eastern shores divided between the patriarchs mostly on the central south and regular humans on the eastern and southeastern shore.

The big "enemy" are stolen from Ken Hite's Cabal books for GURPS in the from of Qlippoth, remnants of the prior creation. The traditional ruins of D&D have the same source.

That sounds even better now...I'd love to hear more about this as it develops. In a similar vein I swapped out Nobirans for Atlanteans and Zaharans for Hyperboreans in my nascent Atlantean Age ACKS game (loosely based on the Theosophical theories of Madame Blavatsky). The HFH figures prominently too.

My intent at this point is to release a product called Adventurer Conqueror King System: Imperial Imprint.  it's not really a new edition. It's more like a revised compendium of our rules including stuff that has appeared in Axioms and various modules. I would say it's similar to Rules Cyclopedia vs BECMI.

I now have 11 years of actual play information on all of the ACKS systems and with that knowledge I've been able to improve a lot. I also have deepened my understanding of economics, and more thoroughly developed the entire economic backend.  The confirmed changes are primarily focused on the secret sauce of ACKS, its campaign mechanics:

1. Stronghold & Domains rules upgraded to the rules found in Axioms
2. Magic Research rules upgraded to rules released on Patreon
3. Mercantile Ventures rules upgraded to rules released on Patreon
4. Hijink rules upgraded to rules released on Patreon

Other notable changes:
5. WISDOM now adds its modifier to all saving throws, not just saving throws vs Spells
6. Simultaneous attacks are removed and the team with the fewer number of combatants goes first on ties (this avoids "quantum cleaves" where people are still cleaving after they're dead)
7. Mortal Wounds and Tampering with Mortality tables expanded to include variants by alignment and weapon
8. THIEF value in the design system now affords more class powers; FIGHTER value trade-offs in the class design system now have less of an XP penalty (this has "buffed" some of the weaker classes and it makes low-AC highly specialized fighter-types more playable)
9. Improvements to thieves
10. Improvements to some saving throw progressions that made it hard for fighters to avoid special maneuvers

There's a laundry list of other small fixes, tweaks, and so on. After deep rumination, I abandoned all ideas of incorporating Heroic Fantasy into "core" ACKS and I abandoned any notion of swapping away from our AC and throw system. Both of those would make the game much less backwards compatible, and I just have no interest in doing that. RPGs benefit from network effects, and splitting my community into two networks with incompatible editions would be foolish; moreover, keeping ACKS close to its roots keeps all the great OSR and Classic D&D stuff compatible.

So the goal is that someone could stick with the original core and still be actively playing ACKS; upgrade to the new core rules and simply be playing "the same game but better"; or do something in between, they could pick and choose which "sections" of the new rules and plug and play as desired.

Quote from: amacris on October 08, 2022, 01:35:09 PM
My intent at this point is to release a product called Adventurer Conqueror King System: Imperial Imprint.  it's not really a new edition. It's more like a revised compendium of our rules including stuff that has appeared in Axioms and various modules. I would say it's similar to Rules Cyclopedia vs BECMI.

I now have 11 years of actual play information on all of the ACKS systems and with that knowledge I've been able to improve a lot. I also have deepened my understanding of economics, and more thoroughly developed the entire economic backend.  The confirmed changes are primarily focused on the secret sauce of ACKS, its campaign mechanics:

1. Stronghold & Domains rules upgraded to the rules found in Axioms
2. Magic Research rules upgraded to rules released on Patreon
3. Mercantile Ventures rules upgraded to rules released on Patreon
4. Hijink rules upgraded to rules released on Patreon

Other notable changes:
5. WISDOM now adds its modifier to all saving throws, not just saving throws vs Spells
6. Simultaneous attacks are removed and the team with the fewer number of combatants goes first on ties (this avoids "quantum cleaves" where people are still cleaving after they're dead)
7. Mortal Wounds and Tampering with Mortality tables expanded to include variants by alignment and weapon
8. THIEF value in the design system now affords more class powers; FIGHTER value trade-offs in the class design system now have less of an XP penalty (this has "buffed" some of the weaker classes and it makes low-AC highly specialized fighter-types more playable)
9. Improvements to thieves
10. Improvements to some saving throw progressions that made it hard for fighters to avoid special maneuvers

There's a laundry list of other small fixes, tweaks, and so on. After deep rumination, I abandoned all ideas of incorporating Heroic Fantasy into "core" ACKS and I abandoned any notion of swapping away from our AC and throw system. Both of those would make the game much less backwards compatible, and I just have no interest in doing that. RPGs benefit from network effects, and splitting my community into two networks with incompatible editions would be foolish; moreover, keeping ACKS close to its roots keeps all the great OSR and Classic D&D stuff compatible.

So the goal is that someone could stick with the original core and still be actively playing ACKS; upgrade to the new core rules and simply be playing "the same game but better"; or do something in between, they could pick and choose which "sections" of the new rules and plug and play as desired.

This actually sounds even better. I'd definitely still pick up a new Imperial Imprint, whenever it arrives. ACKS has been one of the really cool OSR lines with a specific visual look and a vision for how the game progresses. I was really happy to see that By This Axe did well on Kickstarter as well. Keep crushing it!

Thanks Amacris

Any tentative release dates for the Imperial Imprint?

I'll probably Kickstart it in mid-2023. Just in time for everyone to be maximally annoyed at One D&D if I'm lucky, and maximally distracted by One D&D if not.