I roll Perception/Notice checks for PCs. As well as most social checks. The characters wouldn't know when they "won" a contest because the NPC might be way better than them at the social skill. I found me making the rolls is better for dealing with NPC lies.

GM: Roll Insight

Player: 7?

GM: Yeah, your PC believes the NPC

Player: (thinks the NPC is lying based on the low roll)

I tell my players about Predator, the film, when the Special Ops team is moving through the jungle, literally invisible to the guerrillas they are stalking. But, the SpecOps team has no knowledge of the extraterrestrial hunter stalking THEM, who hears & sees them as if they were a marching band, despite their exceptional stealth.  

If players know they missed certain rolls, THEY KNOW THEY MISSED CERTAIN ROLLS which informs their RP behavior - sometimes. Usually?

Do you use secret rolls or keep it all out in the open?

Quote from: Theory of Games;1090065I roll Perception/Notice checks for PCs. As well as most social checks. The characters wouldn't know when they "won" a contest because the NPC might be way better than them at the social skill. I found me making the rolls is better for dealing with NPC lies.

GM: Roll Insight

Player: 7?

GM: Yeah, your PC believes the NPC

Player: (thinks the NPC is lying based on the low roll)

I tell my players about Predator, the film, when the Special Ops team is moving through the jungle, literally invisible to the guerrillas they are stalking. But, the SpecOps team has no knowledge of the extraterrestrial hunter stalking THEM, who hears & sees them as if they were a marching band, despite their exceptional stealth.  

If players know they missed certain rolls, THEY KNOW THEY MISSED CERTAIN ROLLS which informs their RP behavior - sometimes. Usually?

Do you use secret rolls or keep it all out in the open?

Depends on the situation.

For combat, I'll usually roll in the open. I'll tell the players target numbers (AC, whatever) to speed things along.
In your example, I'd roll in secret. I also do "false" rolls, in order to help not telegraph events. "The DM rolled something, looks like a random encounter is coming up!"

I think insight is one of those skills better rolled in secret, but it can be ok when the player rolls. IF they roll low, you just say his body language is mixed signals, or you cant get a read on whether you think he's lying or not, etc. A general "not sure" result.

Situational. Usually I have the player roll but might not tell them what for.

Such as when there is someone sneaking around, or has told a lie that they might not pick up on because the PCs dont know and passive checks arent pinging any alerts as the roll was good enough to defeat that.

Other times its out in the open because their PC would likely know the outcome too.

5e D&D is really good for both these situations. As is any other RPG where things can be going on that the PCs might miss at a casual glance or even on a more direct look.

Yes we use covert rolls frequently - for perception, sneaking, etc. We also use dice cups which makes processing those easier - the players still get to roll for their PC, they just don't know the result yet. The GM rolling for the player is considered poor form.

If the PC can see/smell/touch the results of their action, the player rolls.

Otherwise, the GM rolls in secret.

While it depends on the game, in 'd20 D&D' (3e 4e 5e) I have the players do all rolls for their PCs. I usually use their Passive/Take 10 score & roll against that for monsters. My view is people generally know how well they did.

However in games where the roll is more setting the difficulty vs a static PC ability, I'll roll.

Quote from: Psikerlord;1090085I think insight is one of those skills better rolled in secret, but it can be ok when the player rolls. IF they roll low, you just say his body language is mixed signals, or you cant get a read on whether you think he's lying or not, etc. A general "not sure" result.

Yeah, IMC for Insight a failed roll is "no information", not "You believe him".

Quote from: Spinachcat;1090094If the PC can see/smell/touch the results of their action, the player rolls.

Otherwise, the GM rolls in secret.

Exactly - I'll roll listening, searching type checks because I don't want them to know if a "don't hear anything" or "don't find any traps/secret doors/hidden items" result is because it's true or they failed their roll. Still, usually if it's true, I kinda tip them off a bit with how I respond ("you're pretty sure"), whereas with non-result I'm a bit more ominous ("hard to tell, but you don't think so"). They get it and we don't have any issues. They know I'm not a "gotcha!" type referee.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1090065Do you use secret rolls or keep it all out in the open?

I consider any RPG with secret rolls and passive perception checks to be inherently broken, so the latter.

Exactly.

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That said, I would never use an "Insight" roll: in my game insight is for players, not characters.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1090112I consider any RPG with secret rolls and passive perception checks to be inherently broken, so the latter.

How else would you handle a situation where the party is being followed but you need to know if they've spotted the person tailing them?

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1090112I consider any RPG with secret rolls and passive perception checks to be inherently broken, so the latter.

Passive perception is certainly broken.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1090134How else would you handle a situation where the party is being followed but you need to know if they've spotted the person tailing them?

I personally like the "get players to roll 10 checks at the start of an adventure" and if/when I need a "secret" roll, I roll d10 and use that result on the list. You also need a little table pinned to your screen with all PCs' AC, Perc, and Int scores (for lore).

Quote from: Psikerlord;1090141I personally like the "get players to roll 10 checks at the start of an adventure" and if/when I need a "secret" roll, I roll d10 and use that result on the list. You also need a little table pinned to your screen with all PCs' AC, Perc, and Int scores (for lore).

How is that different from the DM just rolling?