Quote from: KenHRI have Striker via the Classic Games reprint volume and it looks eminently tinkerable.  Just haven't had time to sit down with it and figger it out.

I do like that they used a Panther tank for the design sequence example.  Looks like it's a fairly accurate one, too.

Striker will drive you nuts...but in a good way. In the end I just didn't have the time, but perhaps with modern technology (eg spreadsheets) it would be less of a timesink.

Though Striker was fun to tinker with in the day, I think it, like GURPS Vehicles and CORPS VDS, is too much.

Quote from: Dominus NoxIt's not my fucking job to write rules to cover the gaps in gurps.

I asked you if you knew a way to do chases in GURPS.  You started to answer, then stopped.  I asked for more, and you got huffy.

Look, dude, just -- whatever.  ILs are a great idea.  Good night and good luck.

Quote from: droogStriker will drive you nuts...but in a good way. In the end I just didn't have the time, but perhaps with modern technology (eg spreadsheets) it would be less of a timesink.

I have an addiction to creating spreadsheets for my games.  I'm home sick today; p'raps I'll crack open Striker and see what I can do...

I bought Stryker when it came out, and never did more than scan it. I was under the impression it was a supplement for Traveller, but when I found out it was a miniature game I put it on the shelf. It's still there, covered with dust. Is it worth looking at to mine for ideas, or is it too complex?

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceIs it worth looking at to mine for ideas, or is it too complex?

-clash

It's very complex, but no more complex than the later Fire, Fusion, and Steel.  if you want to fine tune aspects of vehicles and build them from the ground up, it's handy. You can pull systems off of the shelf or go nuts and design many of the components as well.  You can detail the level of armor for each facing of the body and turret separately and determine exact ammo carried.

You could use the vehicles with other games with a bit of translation.  speed/acceleration and capacity are straightforward but penetration/damage may not be as easy.  

Megatraveller's vehicle design sequence is good too, not quite as detailed but quicker.

Quote from: flyingmiceI bought Stryker when it came out, and never did more than scan it. I was under the impression it was a supplement for Traveller, but when I found out it was a miniature game I put it on the shelf. It's still there, covered with dust. Is it worth looking at to mine for ideas, or is it too complex?

-clash

Then I'll dust off your bookshelf for you.

My price?  One Striker.  Y'welcome!

I've looked over many of the available VDS (Gurps, CORPS, D20 Blood & Circuits, TechLaw etc) but none of them have been exactly was I was after.

Is there anywhere I can get any more info on this 'Striker' system?

Quote from: O'BorgIs there anywhere I can get any more info on this 'Striker' system?

You might want to check out the Citizens of the Imperium Traveller Wargames board at travellerrpg.com.

There are two Yahoo groups I know of that are devoted to the game (ct-striker and etranger).

The Classic Traveller CD-ROM, which is (still) forthcoming from Far Future (for $35, it looks like it will be a GREAT deal), will include the game.  It can also be found in the Classic Games reprint, which is out of print (and the most expensive of the series).

MegaTraveller's design sequence is very much striker-derived.

Problem is that what's not too difficult on the flying-tank scale can become really tedious on the flying-battleship scale.

Spreadsheets are very highly recommended if you are actually going to use the MT design sequence.

(But, to be fair, its not as bad as GV or CORPS VDS.)

I like the Heavy Gear/Silhouette VDS though I hear EABA's Stuff! system isn't bad (and easier than BTRC's other systems).

Striker has useful characters for smallarms at multiple TLs and could be used to replace CT default combat with a penetration based combat system simpler than MT (similar to AHL's but much cheaper to buy these days). It also has some other integration bits with Traveller.

FWIW I have two sets (though only 1 set of charts) I'd be willing to part with if anyone's interested. Books only, no boxes. Fun stuff and less rulesitis/verbage than TNE's Striker II but I have other rules for scifi minis (SGII/DSII) and I've given up on "fixing" CT.

I'm surprised this went as far as it did before someone mentioned Silhouette.

My two favorite vehicle design systems are SilCore (the current incarnation of Silhouette) and Mekton Zeta. I have been interested in the CORPS VDS but have not picked it up yet.

SilCore is very streamlined and flexible - there isn't any futzing around with mass and volume and such. You basically pick the Size of the vehicle, the armor, how manueverable it is, movement modes, design some weapons, add in any characteristics the vehicle has and you're done. It works great for converting vehicles that you already have real world statistics for. The SilCore tactical combat system is optimized for vehicles and does a pretty good job, as well as interfacing with the personal combat system fairly seamlessly.

Weapons design is effects based, so it doesn't matter if it's a railgun or a blackpowder cannon or a laser - you give it the traits that emulate what you want it to do, and *that* helps define the limitations of the weapon system. For example, a black powder cannon might have the characteristics Recoil (cannot be fired on the move), Indirect Fire, Power Hungry (which means that it takes several actions between each use) and a low Accuracy. A Laser might have HEAT (making it able to be more effective against HEAT Vulnerable vehicles or less effective against HEAT Resistant vehicles), Attenuating Damage (damage drops off with range), Power Hungry (in this case representing the amount of power it requires), and a high accuracy.

With the lack of hit locations like other systems, vehicular damage is expressed through the destruction or impairment of subsystems (a mirror of the way personal scale wounds work).

It does have some drawbacks - the vehicles may not be "meaty" enough for some people - much of what might translate into a system like GURPS Vehicles (such as powerplant type, drivetrain, etc) is "fluff" in SilCore. It also takes some work without the benefit of hard examples to make the decisions when designing a vehicle. It is possible to build a Yugo-sized, heavily armored tank capable of destroying entire city-blocks and flying at supersonic speeds - the resulting design would just be hideously expensive if you bother to do the cost calculations.

Mekton Zeta started as a game for building giant robots and fighting them against one another, and it shows. Construction in Mekton Zeta Plus (the advanced construction rules) is a mini-game in its own right as the designer balances weight, space and cost. Vehicles are designed by stacking "servos" together, such as torso, arms, legs, heads, etc. Each servo has a value for how much punishment it can take, how much space it has inside of it, and how much it weighs. From there, you can design the weapons, add armor, put in sensors, movement systems, special systems, etc. Weapon design is partially effects based - there are broad categories like beam weapon, projectile weapon, missile, melee, etc. each with their own drawbacks and benefits. There is a way of giving weapons special characteristics that are not listed, as well as adjusting the space taken and the wieght of the final design (which increases cost).

Mekton Zeta suffers from several problems. The first is that it really only does mecha well. Yes, it can be used to design an economy automobile but it's just not optimized for it. There are a lot of front-loaded assumptions about the performance of a vehicle that make it difficult to deviate, especially with regards to mass, space, manueverability and speed. There are systems for adjusting these traits, but the adjustments only fall within a particular range. It should also be noted that the restrictions are not necessarily "realistic" and are fairly arbitrary.

Mecha design can also be quite time consuming, especially for unusual or complex designs. It can take a lot of hammering and tinkering to get existing designs to work properly. My favorite two were recreating the Tomahawk Destroid from Macross - which packs way more weapons in it's small frame then Mekton assumes is normally possible - and the Monster Destroid - which required for me to mount weapons of a larger scale than the design itself due to Mekton's scaling rules.

Finally, Mekton could never quite decide if it was an rpg or a wargame and it shows in the combat system. Whereas in SilCore (especially with use of optional systems like the Dramatic Tactical System) a hexmap or miniatures is not required, in Mekton Zeta it is almost a must. Yet the Interlock combat system presented in Mekton Zeta is not the precise rules set one would expect from a wargame.

With that said, I love both games for what they do better than pretty much everything else out there. For "realistic" games that feature vehicles I tend to pick SilCore (as I do for pretty much any game where the characters fall roughly within human norms, which includes most modern day, near future, science fiction or dark fantasy I woudl want to run). For "super robot" games I tend to pick Mekton.