TheRPGSite

(Cross-posted to the Tavern)

So, lately I've had this itch to run a 'modern, supernatural' game of some sort.  But, on the flipside, I'm feeling a bit burned out on horror, so don't want to do Cthulhu, or any of my standard 'go-to' modern horror tropes.

I've been thinking a bit about running something "Modern Fantasy" like, but really don't know much about the genre.  I've read Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere" (and saw the BBC show) as well as his "American Gods".  Read his "Sandman" stuff as well....  Also, I'm a big fan of the old Nephilim game, but more for the background and setting than the baseline character concepts.

Hrmm... so, apparently my only experience with "Modern Fantasy" is Neil Gaiman, and Nephilim.

So, any of you fans of the genre?  Give me some ideas of what sort of elements might be included in a modern fantasy game?

The Hellblazer comic offer a bloody, sardonic and often humorous take on modern magic.

Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing is also very good, reinterpreting the character as an elemental.

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were looking for recommendations. I'll post more on elements that work well later, if I get the chance.

The main element of modern fantasy is that the fantasy magical part is totally blatant, but nonetheless takes place completely under the noses of the non-magical world. They are unaware.

The one obstacle to this, is that some players may be tempted to "call the cops" when something like a magical monster attacks, or some bizarre phenomenon occurs.

The trick is to make sure that's one of the worst possible things to do. You can't disallow it, but be prepared to deal with it.

Modern fantasy also includes vampires and werewolf stuff, and I'm slightly allergic to goth. On the other hand, most of Gaimans stuff is quite okay and even Pratchett contributed to the genre. The distinction between modern fantasy, urban fantasy and horror isn't as defined as one might think.

The big problem I see in most "modern fantasy" games is keeping it secret. In most novels and games the fantasy elements are not known to the general populace, and sometimes it's really hard or stupid to keep it that way. It's the old conspiracy theory problem. Every participant has to be extremely intelligent and careful not to spill the hidden skeletons. Including the game master...

Probably a reason why a certain number of plots in the modern fantasy genre center around troubleshooter teams keeping it hidden.

Hmm, "troubleshooter"... For some kind of reason I have images in my mind about a weird Paranoia/WoD mix.

I always thought Superheros were the modern fantasy.

All that other stuff (gaiman, magic, vampires, etc) is just pretentious quasi-horror quasi-filmnoire elitist crap.

RPGPundit

Quote from: DrewThe Hellblazer comic offer a bloody, sardonic and often humorous take on modern magic.

Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing is also very good, reinterpreting the character as an elemental.

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were looking for recommendations. I'll post more on elements that work well later, if I get the chance.

Yeah, those are a bit more 'horror' than I want...  I'll look forward to seeing what else you come up with.

Quote from: SosthenesThe big problem I see in most "modern fantasy" games is keeping it secret. In most novels and games the fantasy elements are not known to the general populace, and sometimes it's really hard or stupid to keep it that way. It's the old conspiracy theory problem. Every participant has to be extremely intelligent and careful not to spill the hidden skeletons. Including the game master...

Right.  I'd have to decide which part of the 'veil' I want the PCs to be on.  In no way, shape, nor form do I want a "World of Darkness"-style "PCs as monsters" game.  But I would like them a bit empowered.  Perhaps they're mages of some sort...  beats me; I'll have to think on it.

Neil Gaiman is a great source.  But for a more fantasy flair think of the Harry Dresden books (or the mini-series) they are about as dead on of a modern fantasy as you can get.

Quote from: RPGPunditI always thought Superheros were the modern fantasy.

Yes, in many ways they are.  I just think Superheroes are a completely idiotic concept, and don't want to run that sort of game.

Quote from: RPGPunditAll that other stuff (gaiman, magic, vampires, etc) is just pretentious quasi-horror quasi-filmnoire elitist crap.

In your opinion, of course.

So comics are fair game?  The various incarnations of DC's "The Books of Magic" dealt with modern fantasy to some degree or another, usually veering away from the horror you'd find in "Swampthing" or "Hellblazer" while often incorporating the same cast of characters.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSo comics are fair game?  The various incarnations of DC's "The Books of Magic" dealt with modern fantasy to some degree or another, usually veering away from the horror you'd find in "Swampthing" or "Hellblazer" while often incorporating the same cast of characters.

Ah!  Books of Magic...  I'd forgotten about those. I'll have to see if I can dig mine out and take another look-see...

Quote from: SosthenesThe big problem I see in most "modern fantasy" games is keeping it secret. In most novels and games the fantasy elements are not known to the general populace, and sometimes it's really hard or stupid to keep it that way. It's the old conspiracy theory problem. Every participant has to be extremely intelligent and careful not to spill the hidden skeletons. Including the game master...

Of course, it is magic, and there might be REASONS that it's secret.

Some games pull this off more convincingly than others, but there are ALWAYS implications.

This may set the hounds on my tail for mentioning it, but the sort of animism proposed in Nobilis goes a long way toward achieving that sort of modern fantasy.  The old notion that every little thing either houses or is a sort of spiritual entity or mechanism means that characters possess another option for interacting with the world at large: appeasement and coercion.

I was once working on a Nephilim scenario where the city was alive with mystic essence.  The daily crossword bore portents and prophesy.  The pattern of blinking traffic lights conveyed messages to those who knew how to read them.  Street maps and utility layouts could be rotated around various compass points to re-combine and reveal subtle clues.

!i!

Or, you can go another direction and make the fantastic blatant, blatant, blatant. (http://xbowvsbuddha.blogspot.com/2007/01/vegas-is-goblin-town.html)

Quote from: Caesar SlaadOf course, it is magic, and there might be REASONS that it's secret.

I'm not arguing about the reasons. There's plenty of them. But the _means_ of keeping this secret quickly approach MiB-style technology or magic.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThis may set the hounds on my tail for mentioning it, but the sort of animism proposed in Nobilis goes a long way toward achieving that sort of modern fantasy.  The old notion that every little thing either houses or is a sort of spiritual entity or mechanism means that characters possess another option for interacting with the world at large: appeasement and coercion.

The different perspectives on the world also help with some of the problems mentioned earlier in the thread. For instance, you don't have to hesitate to call the cops after seeing a hydra attackíng people in some alleyway, because from their prosaic point of view it will be just a particularly vicious street gang.

If you're not wedded to "fantasy" you can have a world with Psionics instead. They can provide a "magical" element to the game, but without the problem of explaining elves and whatnot. Could also bring ghosts and other spirits into the equation as psionic entities. Easy to finagle a "scientific" explaination for the fantastic elements as well. For added fun, have the psis being hunted by the Guv'mint.

Quote from: GrimGentFor instance, you don't have to hesitate to call the cops after seeing a hydra attackíng people in some alleyway, because from their prosaic point of view it will be just a particularly vicious street gang.

Which causes me to recall another modern fantasy: Brazil.  This sort of thing was going on in Sam's mind all the time, where he'd segue from normal and prosaic events into a fantasy version of them.  And as long as we're discussing Gilliam films, there's also The Fisher King, where the prosaic and the fantastic were paired more closely.

!i!

I think the two elements modern fantasy has are:

1) Magic is right under our noses.
2) Some sense of humor or wit about it.

That's pretty much it.

The Nancy Collins novel Midnight Blue, before she crossed over her characters with Vampire and fucked it all up, were modern fantasy. The main character is a half-vampire, which gives her the ability to see things around her no one else can. So the homeless lady is a seraphim, that bouncer is a troll, there's a dragon living in the park.

Some Clive Barker does as well, although it is mostly horror.

Also, doesn't Buffy/Angel qualify as somewhat modern fantasy? Out of all things, Jake Long whatever Dragon something on the Disney Channel may qualify as well.

Quote from: RPGPunditI always thought Superheros were the modern fantasy.

All that other stuff (gaiman, magic, vampires, etc) is just pretentious quasi-horror quasi-filmnoire elitist crap.

RPGPundit

And real history is 19th century to the present.  Roman history, in the academic sense, is intellectual masturbation.  Justified ad nauseum by the Swine who are trying to justify their paltry existence.

You've got a number of options as far as secrecy/non secrecy goes.

You can always make it something everyone knows about. In this case, you should consider what people know about it. Do they know it exists? Do they know how it works? Also, how common is it? Is it integrated into everyday life or are people afraid of it?

You should decide, regardless, what kind of magic you want and maybe where it comes from. What's the focus? Monsters? Obsessive "hobbyists" looking into scrolls and numerology and all that stuff? Innate and inexplicable talents popping up? A "hidden world"? Are ordinary things attributed sentience? Does stuff only happen if it's expected... "can only be found by someone who knows where to find it"? Etc.

Secrecy can happen if magic is rare, or is only practiced by super-studious humans. One diverts attention, the other means that few would even bother to seek it out. That combined with the prominence of charlatans means that as long as you're not shooting fireballs out of your eyes, people can watch you do it and dismiss it as a cheap trick.

Quote from: WilSome Clive Barker does as well, although it is mostly horror.

Not really: except for The Damnation Game and Cold Heart Canyon, the novels that Barker writes are dark fantasy rather than outright horror. Weaveworld and Imajica are good examples of his fantastique.

Hmm. You can't really talk about modern/urban fantasy without mentioning Charles de Lint, of course.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAnd as long as we're discussing Gilliam films, there's also The Fisher King, where the prosaic and the fantastic were paired more closely.

Good call.

This isn't exactly my favorite genre, however I'll throw out another possible source of inspiration: the comic book series Mage, by Matt Wagner.

Quote from: Elliot WilenThis isn't exactly my favorite genre, however I'll throw out another possible source of inspiration: the comic book series Mage, by Matt Wagner.

Oh!  D'uh-d'uh-d'uh!  This is the second time in recent weeks that someone has had to remind me of one of my favorite comic series.  I even pulled out "Mage: The Hero Defined" and re-read it after the last time.

!i!

Quote from: SosthenesI'm not arguing about the reasons. There's plenty of them. But the _means_ of keeping this secret quickly approach MiB-style technology or magic.

I'm not just talking about deliberate means to do so, but "metaphysical law".

In my modern fantasy setting of choice, Second World Sourcebook, the real world fights to reject the fantastic, including purging memory of it. People who learn of magic and the supernatural and accept it soon find themselves being rejected. Second World characters can only remain on First World earth for a week or so at best.

Sounds familiar, Caesar... Didn't Neverwhere employ a similar plot device?

Urban Arcana and Pratchetts Discworld employ similar repression methods, though mostly based on the inability of people to accept such things.

Some common elements include:

Mythology Reinterpreted: The same cycle of stories play themselves out over and over, only the names change. Iconic characters of the past are recast in roles of similar nature and scope, yet projected onto modern sensibilities. Gaiman's work is full if this sort of thing. A good mundane example is O Brother Where Art Thou? and it's reinterpretation of the Odyssey.

Mind & Magic: In a lot of the modern fantasy I've read magic tends to be non-flashy stuff that relies on the state of mind of both practitioner and observer in order to be visible for what it is. Alan Moore referred to it as "Magical Thinking" in the appendices of From Hell, indicating that the conscious mind draws upon subconscious and cultural symbology in order to create a private language that enables one to perform "works."

Modernity Personified: In much the same way as older traditions feature personifications of places, concepts and objects, so does modern fantasy characterise the technology and ideology that surrounds us. Mobile phones can be used to mystically locate missing individuals, advertising is a mantra of subtle (or overt) mental coercion, there is a god of television. Dan Clowes' Like A Velvet Glove Cast In Iron is an excellent graphic novel that hints at the bewildering, unknowable nature of the entities that could exist behind the scenery of contemporary life.

What about cribbing "Necroscope" by Brian Lumley? That was a pretty good series for the first three books or so. Still have the never- used WEG Boxed game of that, in pristine condition - too bad, 'cause I really wanted to run it. :)

The Fisher King is a great example of the genre, in fact if you play out the Arthurian legends in a modern milieu you're pretty much golden.

Add Grimm's fairy tales to the mix and you've got a wealth of adventures right there.  Rumplestiltskin as a loanshark, The questing beast at large in NYC.

There was actually an RPG, called Underworld, published by Adamant Entertainment, that does the subterranean secret stuff in the subways. I think it's out of print.

Also, the Beauty and the Beast television series kind of falls in the modern fantasy category.

Perhaps I'm being a tad obvious but films such as Pan's Labyrinth, Kronos, Delicatasen , City of Lost Children , Chocolat, and Amelie would certainly qualify as Modern Fantasy.

As for books, Rushdie's Midnight Children, Barker's The Great & Secret Show and browse through some of Harlan Ellison's stuff - Mephisto in Onyx comes to mind.

And because I'm in a rather cheeky mood, Foucault's Pendulum....

Regards,
David R

Quote from: joewolzAnd real history is 19th century to the present.  Roman history, in the academic sense, is intellectual masturbation.  Justified ad nauseum by the Swine who are trying to justify their paltry existence.

Man, what? :confused: :rolleyes:

RPGPundit

I think the more popular term for the genre is urban fantasy, but that's just splitting hairs. Personally, I call it modern horror, because it usually involves a lot of things that are supposed to be scary.

In television, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Special Unit 2, and Dresden Files are all decent examples. The movie Constantine was a good example of occult themed urban fantasy.

Books include the Neil Gaiman titles you mentioned, Simon R. Green's Nightside series, Dresden Files, Patricia Briggs' Moon Called and Blood Bound, Kat Richardson's Greywalker, C.E. Murphy's Urban Shaman. A lot of books in the genre lean toward romance, especially the works of Laurell K. Hamilton,  Kelley Armstrong, Charlaine Harris, and Kim Harrison.

The main elements in these type of stories are combinations of magic and supernatural creatures. Vampires, Werewolves, and Faeries are some of the most commonly used entities and invariably there is spellcasting to some degree. The supernatural is most often hidden from the public view, but in some works (like the Anita Blake novels of Laurell K Hamilton) vampires are known to the public and necromancers can make an honest living. Another take on urban fantasy is a struggle between angels and demons and the forces of heaven and hell.

RPG-wise, the WoD stuff is urban fantasy, but my personal favorite is the Eden Studios Witchcraft game and it's supplements.

I've run games where the players were norms, crusading against the supernatural, as well as games where the PCs were supernatural themselves, campaigning against even more sinister and powerful foes.

There are a lot of great inspirational sources out there and a lot of directions you could take a game in this genre.

How about "On A Pale Horse (http://www.amazon.com/Pale-Horse-Incarnations-Immortality-Bk/dp/0345338588)"?

I don't think I see it mentioned. Though lots of what has been mentioned is like it.