Just curious if anyone had any *NEW* resources (blog posts, RPG games or settings) that help GM's run in a Sandboxy way. I now purchase a lot of products based on "how easy will it be to sandbox this." People always recommend the "Prep Situations" blog post, the Lazy GM book, and Sine Nomine games but I still think there's a market space for a book that really focuses on how to create and run a Sandbox game in any genre. If you want to write that for me that's great.
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1058811Just curious if anyone had any *NEW* resources (blog posts, RPG games or settings) that help GM's run in a Sandboxy way. I now purchase a lot of products based on "how easy will it be to sandbox this." People always recommend the "Prep Situations" blog post, the Lazy GM book, and Sine Nomine games but I still think there's a market space for a book that really focuses on how to create and run a Sandbox game in any genre. If you want to write that for me that's great.
Well, I'm doing that in my game. I'll give you the quick and dirty version
1. Start with an idea you have for content: in my example, I'd like to do something simple, say a camp of barbarian raiders and slavers
2. Choose between one of two general models: Dynamic or Status Quo. You'll track changes in a dynamic model, but in a status quo it'll remain the same when players encounter it
3. Prep the content. In this example, you'd want a map of the barbarian's base, a list of the barbarians (I suggest breaking them into groups so you can key or track them easily) and a key for each part of the base (detailing buildings and rooms and such)
4. If it's status quo, think about what the barbarians do every day: this is what the players will encounter when they go to their base. Prepping this way effectively gives you a dungeon; map of rooms, content and descriptions keyed to rooms, encounter list of wandering inhabitants (patrolling barbarians, in this case) and inhabitants keyed to rooms. You can run this with very simple dungeon crawl techniques and get a fantastic amount of gameplay from very little prep
5. If it's dynamic, then every time you advance time for the PCs, you should update the situation in the content node. For example, maybe the barbarians are transporting some slaves the PCs have been tasked with saving; as the players use their limited resource of time, the slaves draw ever closer to the base. In a traditional game, you'll use travel/distance/time rules to update very accurately. In a scene-based game like mine, you can update more easily by keying changes to scenes in a numerical fashion. Prepped this way, the content will be different depending on when the players encounter it. Note that dynamic content should seek a new status quo, so that you don't have to keep tracking it forever (eventually the slaves will make their way into the base, then it's back to business as usual)
Prepping a sandbox based on ideas you have for content will allow it to grow to a very easy-to-manage size (it'll be based on your best ideas, which you're most excited about running). This keeps you from having to deal with big patches of zero-content hexes (a problem I have, as my love for maps generally outweighs my ability to fill them with stuff). It also keeps the amount of stuff you need to track reasonable, as most of the content is in a state of status quo until the players show up to wreck things.
Naw, been happily running Stonehell Dungeon for over a year now, and I just go back to the Alexandrian blog series on megadungeon open table campaigns when I want a refresher.
Naturally I'm going to pimp Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting. Made for sandboxin' good times.
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1058811Just curious if anyone had any *NEW* resources (blog posts, RPG games or settings)
Been releasing licensed revised guides and maps to Judge Guild's Wilderlands of High Fantasy. The revised part is mostly in the layout and bringing it up to date. Also added bits of background from other published Judges Guild books that are relevant. Notably the hard to get Map Six City State of the World Emperor. The next set, Wilderlands of the Magic Realms should be out by the end of the month.
https://www.rpgnow.com/browse/pub/2993/Bat-in-the-Attic-Games
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1058811I still think there's a market space for a book that really focuses on how to create and run a Sandbox game in any genre. If you want to write that for me that's great.
Agreed and been puttering away at it for the last couple of years. Alas my output doesn't scale and it is a hefty topic to tackle and do it right.
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1058811I still think there's a market space for a book that really focuses on how to create and run a Sandbox game in any genre.
You mean aside from Apocalypse World and Blades in the Dark bazillion hacks? :D
Quote from: Itachi;1058957You mean aside from Apocalypse World and Blades in the Dark bazillion hacks? :D
No. Bad Itachi.
No cookie
Quote from: Psikerlord;1058869Naturally I'm going to pimp Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting. Made for sandboxin' good times.
Just got the print version from Lulu yesterday, along with first 2 Fight On! collections. Coupled with the 3 core ACKS books I've probably blown my gaming budget for the rest of the year, but there's plenty of reading in that lot :)
Quote from: Derabar;1059003Just got the print version from Lulu yesterday, along with first 2 Fight On! collections. Coupled with the 3 core ACKS books I've probably blown my gaming budget for the rest of the year, but there's plenty of reading in that lot :)
Brings a big smile to my face. I hope they serve you well!
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1058811Just curious if anyone had any *NEW* resources (blog posts, RPG games or settings) that help GM's run in a Sandboxy way. I now purchase a lot of products based on "how easy will it be to sandbox this." People always recommend the "Prep Situations" blog post, the Lazy GM book, and Sine Nomine games but I still think there's a market space for a book that really focuses on how to create and run a Sandbox game in any genre. If you want to write that for me that's great.
I don't know if this is what you were thinking of, but my RPGPundit Presents series includes a number of 'adventure scenarios' which are set up as sandboxes. They don't follow a linear 'adventure path', so they take the format of showing you the whole setup, the NPCs or monsters or whatever involved, and the line of events as they will happen outside of PC interference, as well as guidance to what would change depending on how the PCs interfere.
Ironically, this has caused a couple of people who are obviously only used to non-sandbox adventuring to claim that these products are "not real adventures" or "incomplete".
Quote from: RPGPundit;1059713Ironically, this has caused a couple of people who are obviously only used to non-sandbox adventuring to claim that these products are "not real adventures" or "incomplete".
You didn't write out what the PCs are supposed to do OR a conclusion for the story? Whats the point? It is almost as if you expect it to be material for a game instead of a story. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exploderwizard;1059771You didn't write out what the PCs are supposed to do OR a conclusion for the story? Whats the point? It is almost as if you expect it to be material for a game instead of a story. :rolleyes:
You say it in jest, but that's a common problem these days with the newbies and the way adventures are framed for them. Railroading has won.
Quote from: Derabar;1059003Just got the print version from Lulu yesterday, along with first 2 Fight On! collections. Coupled with the 3 core ACKS books I've probably blown my gaming budget for the rest of the year, but there's plenty of reading in that lot :)
How are those Fight On! collections? Been thinking about those myself.
Quote from: Azraele;1058966No. Bad Itachi. No cookie
Why no cookie? Both
Apocalypse World and
Blades in the Dark have very good structures for sandbox play that can be easily ported to other games.
I've heard
Kingmaker, a Pathfinder campaign, is also a really good sandbox. Anyone read/played it?
Quote from: Itachi;1061262Why no cookie? Both Apocalypse World and Blades in the Dark have very good structures for sandbox play that can be easily ported to other games.
I've heard Kingmaker, a Pathfinder campaign, is also a really good sandbox. Anyone read/played it?
Not really. It's a bit like if The Angry DM did sandbox the way he did megadungeon. It apes the form without really understanding it imo.
Quote from: S'mon;1061265Not really. It's a bit like if The Angry DM did sandbox the way he did megadungeon. It apes the form without really understanding it imo.
Yeah this: "sandbox" as a technique is at odds with AW's "make it up based on what the player just rolled" style of game structure.
I'm not judging AW here, I'm just saying that it's doing something different than a big hexmap filled with stuff. It has a fundamentally different approach in it's attitude to game prep and running.
I don't know much about blades; I'd have to read it before I made that kind of proclamation.
I
do judge Pathfinder, though, because it's tremendously boring and tedious. Their idea of a hexcrawl resource seems to be "a book of bad fiction with some monster stats", which is
absolutely not what I'm talking about.
To be clear I was referring to Kingmaker, though I definitely think AW is not conducive to the exploration element of sandboxing. It does seem designed for a Dead wood type setup which is a sort of town based sandbox I guess. But really story games are a different thing from old school sandbox games.
Quote from: S'mon;1061265Not really. It's a bit like if The Angry DM did sandbox the way he did megadungeon. It apes the form without really understanding it imo.
Why do you say that? Care to elaborate? Never read or played it but only heard good things about it.
Quote from: Azraele;1061269Yeah this: "sandbox" as a technique is at odds with AW's "make it up based on what the player just rolled" style of game structure.
I'm not judging AW here, I'm just saying that it's doing something different than a big hexmap filled with stuff. It has a fundamentally different approach in it's attitude to game prep and running.
I think there are different types of sandboxing. You have ye olde hexmap crawls where exploration is more of the physical or geographical sort; you have urban sandboxes where the exploration is more social and political like seen in VtM's Chicago by Night or CP 2020 Night City; you have more personal drama-oriented sandboxes like Smallvile and Monsterhearts, etc.
I would say Apocalypse World and PbtA in general are a mix of the later two, while Blades is a mix of all those (geographic + political + personal).
I'm not into but am generally fine w/ PbtA games. However, they don't *SEEM* sandboxy to me. That is, you're supposed to make everything up at the table, mostly with the players doing the making up part. Which is cool, but not really a traditional sandbox approach
PencilBoy, you just "make everything up" in first session to create the setting (or part of it) collaboratively. After that through, there's no "world-editing" or anything of the sort, and the world is in the hands of the GM. The Cannibals from Junk Pit must be dealt with in the same way as if it was in D&D's Blackmoor or RQ' Borderlands. What's important regarding sandbox as a concept, I think, is that the group is free to go wherever they may and the setting various entities/factions/npcs will react to that while pushing for their own agendas. In other words: it's a player-driven experience, within a simulation of a world in motion.
Now if you meant just Hexcrawls in the OP, with specific tables with entities for each Hex etc, then that's fair, as that kind of geographic minutia is not really the point of PbtA.
Quote from: Itachi;1061297In other words: there's a simulation in place of a world in motion.
I think this is the essence of it, yes. If AW does that, it's a sandbox.
So, can I have my cookie back? :D
Quote from: Itachi;1061292Why do you say that? Care to elaborate? Never read or played it but only heard good things about it.
I have KM 1-3 & 5 but have not GM'd it so this is just an impression. It seems to be pretty much a regular story path with a light sandbox veneer. From what I recall there's a lot of X happens then Y happens then Z happens, and dungeons to be done in order.
An actual published sandbox campaign looks like Stonehell Dungeon, which I'm currently running - it has tons of
stuff but it doesn't have a pre-written story.
Thanks *Itachi* that's a good explanation of PbtA (I've only played, never run, and not played AW).
I'll pimp my latest work: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/254216/Piracy-and-Privateering (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/254216/Piracy-and-Privateering)
It's a system neutral science fiction supplement 84 pages long, detailing how to run or play in a sandbox space pirate or privateer campaign. What makes it sandbox is that I've included a fully developed set of encounter rules to randomly generate stuff in each region of a system: ships, stations, etc. I've also been using said rules for the past six months as the primary engine powering two Stars Without Number campaigns. So, generate your sector, generate your pirate PCs, and go.
very cool
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1061306very cool
Thanks! Was fun to write!
Quote from: S'mon;1061300I have KM 1-3 & 5 but have not GM'd it so this is just an impression. It seems to be pretty much a regular story path with a light sandbox veneer. From what I recall there's a lot of X happens then Y happens then Z happens, and dungeons to be done in order.
An actual published sandbox campaign looks like Stonehell Dungeon, which I'm currently running - it has tons of stuff but it doesn't have a pre-written story.
Yeah, it feels more like a branching adventure than an actual sandbox for me too. Thanks for clarifying S'mon.
Quote from: S'mon;1061300I have KM 1-3 & 5 but have not GM'd it so this is just an impression. It seems to be pretty much a regular story path with a light sandbox veneer. From what I recall there's a lot of X happens then Y happens then Z happens, and dungeons to be done in order.
An actual published sandbox campaign looks like Stonehell Dungeon, which I'm currently running - it has tons of stuff but it doesn't have a pre-written story.
Yeah railroads with a sandbox veneer get aggravating, same thing with the Curse of Stradh for 5ed.
How about The Great Pendragon Campaign? Would you say it's a sandbox? I admit I'm not sure how to classify it.
Quote from: Itachi;1061406How about The Great Pendragon Campaign? Would you say it's a sandbox? I admit I'm not sure how to classify it.
Sure if one looks at it as if what would happen if the PCs were not involved. The thing is with Pendragon is that the PCs are not the main characters of Arthur, Lancelot, Guinevere. Maybe it won't play out in lockstep with legend but the internal conflict that drive the legend out pretty much out of the hands of the PCs to fix. Arthur will do his thing, Lancelot and Guinevere will have their affair at some point and Modred is still Arthur's bastards and a little shit.
Quote from: Itachi;1061406How about The Great Pendragon Campaign? Would you say it's a sandbox? I admit I'm not sure how to classify it.
I wouldn't really call it a Sandbox. It's got a timeline and very defined adventures, but the GM can choose which adventures to send his characters on.
I do have the Great Pendragon Campaign and definitely plan to run it. My group asked me to hold off because I just ran the Darkening Of Mirkwood campaign and it was just brutal emotionally.
Quote from: PencilBoy99;1062068I do have the Great Pendragon Campaign and definitely plan to run it. My group asked me to hold off because I just ran the Darkening Of Mirkwood campaign and it was just brutal emotionally.
Your players won't regret you running this, if you do it right.