http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25704
Wonder what Dancey means by the last quote:
QuoteCan you fill me in on the status of White Wolf, the physical game company CCP acquired in Atlanta?
It's just an imprint... White Wolf used to have a fairly large staff. It doesn't anymore. It's focusing primarily on the World of Darkness RPG products. It's not doing some of the things it used to do; board games and other card games and things. The focus of the company [CCP] is on making MMOs and our legacy table top business is a legacy business.
You mean that last line there? I'm pretty sure it's an acknowledgement that WW was bought by CCP for its various intellectual properties, and not to gain a foothold in the production and distribution of tabletop RPGs. For the time being, the new parent company lets the subsidiary do its old thing, until it gets in the way of the MMO business.
!i!
Doesn't bother me. I haven't even been remotely tempted to buy anything from them for over 5 years.
Quote from: Ian Absentia;342652You mean that last line there? I'm pretty sure it's an acknowledgement that WW was bought by CCP for its various intellectual properties, and not to gain a foothold in the production and distribution of tabletop RPGs. For the time being, the new parent company lets the subsidiary do its old thing, until it gets in the way of the MMO business.
!i!
Sounds more like "Let the stuff ready-to-go go, and anything that can be done cheap and easy, and put it to bed quietly."
Unfortunately, they got Pendragon in the mix.
It sounds like White Wolf is, basically, no more.
Seanchai
Quote from: aramis;342661Sounds more like "Let the stuff ready-to-go go, and anything that can be done cheap and easy, and put it to bed quietly."
Like I said, "For the time being..."
QuoteUnfortunately, they got Pendragon in the mix.
Too true about that. I hope Greg was more tight-fisted about retaining the rights this time around.
!i!
Man, fuck that guy. I guess he managed to find an industry where he wasn't totally disgraced yet, but it still grates on me something fierce watching that asshole spin like he has the slightest fucking clue what he's talking about despite never having worked on an MMO in his life before this new gig.
Just pains me that it had to be with a game I actually like. Couldn't he have hired on at Funcom or some shit?
"Whoa, hands of Funcom!" say the 8+ year Anarchy Online veteran.
Quote from: Soylent Green;342710"Whoa, hands of Funcom!" say the 8+ year Anarchy Online veteran.
Well, by admitting that you've demonstrated you're a masochist, so would you really know the difference?
Quote from: J Arcane;342708Man, fuck that guy. I guess he managed to find an industry where he wasn't totally disgraced yet, but it still grates on me something fierce watching that asshole spin like he has the slightest fucking clue what he's talking about despite never having worked on an MMO in his life before this new gig.
Just pains me that it had to be with a game I actually like. Couldn't he have hired on at Funcom or some shit?
What else has he "disgraced", besides 3E D&D?
Quote from: ggroy;342717What else has he "disgraced", besides 3E D&D?
They guy has bankrupted, or nearly so, every other company he's "consulted" on. Like AEG. And his ideas on the "future" of RPGs are so much misunderstood Forgey nonsense.
Even the OGL, that so many praise, ultimately was a horrible move for Wizards, and I think the industry as a whole. He basically gave us our own 1984 crash.
He's an ass, who I'm at this point not convinced even actually plays games, I think he's just a con artist with a cheap degree who seeks out markets with less experienced management bases, and fills them full of retarded ideas, before moving on to leech off the next company.
Quote from: J Arcane;342719He basically gave us our own 1984 crash.
What exactly is the "1984 crash"?
The only "crash" I can think offhand dating back to around 1984, was the crash of the video game console business (ie. Atari, Intellivision, Colecovision, etc ...).
Apparently, he did some sketchy stuff concerning GAMA. Darren Johnson talks about it in his blog here (http://imperialoutpostgames.blogspot.com/).
Quote from: ggroy;342720What exactly is the "1984 crash"?
The only "crash" I can think offhand dating back to around 1984, was the crash of the video game console business (ie. Atari, Intellivision, Colecovision, etc ...).
You got it.
The flood of shitty unlicensed games in 1984 damaged public perception so badly that basically the entire industry collapsed.
The flood of shitty D20/D&D knockoffs basically murdered the existing mid-tier of the industry, leaving really only Wizards and a handful of new upstarts in anything resembling good health, before they finally just killed the whole damn market by announcing 4e and making everything that'd come before obsolete in them minds of the greater public.
You're giving the guy way too much credit - i'm sure he'd cock-up cocking things up.
Sounds like the bankers that totally destroyed Wall St. over the last few years.
Quote from: Drohem;342721Apparently, he did some sketchy stuff concerning GAMA. Darren Johnson talks about it in his blog here (http://imperialoutpostgames.blogspot.com/).
Yeah. That anyone gives him the time of day after that fiasco continues to bug the hell out of me.
Quote from: jrients;342742Yeah. That anyone gives him the time of day after that fiasco continues to bug the hell out of me.
It's always entertaining watching a slow motion trainwreck in action. ;)
Quote from: jrients;342742Yeah. That anyone gives him the time of day after that fiasco continues to bug the hell out of me.
Well the Pundit did, until Dancey broke his little heart.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David R;342754Well the Pundit did, until Dancey broke his little heart.
Regards,
David R
Huh?
Quote from: DeadUematsu;342755Huh?
http://rpgpundit.xanga.com/610089654/item/
Regards,
David R
Isn't Dancey also the guy who, as a consultant for Fantasy Flight, advised them to get out of RPGs altogether, advice they followed for awhile?
From what I gather it's mostly accounting/web/other random positions that are being shifted closer to CCP. White-Wolf as we know them are still around.
From Russel Bailey over at RPGnet:
QuoteThe thread Andrew linked to contains more information, but the short answer is that nearly everyone who was with the company at the time of the merger still is, new people (like Joseph Carriker, Eddy Webb and me) have been hired and are still here, and a number of old White Wolfers who had drifted away over the years are back on staff.
We're still here, nobody's been laid off, nothing's happened that I didn't know about in 2007.
...
White Wolf has always used mainly freelance writers and artists. We're not using any larger a percentage of freelance labor than we have in the past. Books are still developed and art directed by the same people who have been doing them for the last several years. Those people are still on staff.
Ryan's referring in an unusual way to the fact that many people (accounting, operations, web and so on) are now part of larger teams within CCP rather than being dedicated White Wolf staff.
Link for anyone who actually cares:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=482416&page=2
Quote from: Ian Absentia;342706Like I said, "For the time being..."Too true about that. I hope Greg was more tight-fisted about retaining the rights this time around.
!i!
Nope. He didn't have them, and he's a licensee... he owns only the products he's written after GPC. And that's only because he's self-published BoKaL and BoM.
I really hope Greg manages to get those rights back somehow, or Pendragon is given the treatment it deserves.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;342843I really hope Greg manages to get those rights back somehow, or Pendragon is given the treatment it deserves.
RPGPundit
It's a shame to see this happen to games like Pendragon, but to be fair, it's been around for ages now and there are many editions to pick up used on the cheap. What other properties did White Wolf snap up?
Reasonably up-to-date info on getting Pendragon reprinted (though probably lacking some behind-the-scenes nitty-gritty) is at http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=478052
For some reason the White Wolf dude says there's an obstacle which DrivethruRPG might be able to solve.
Good lord, that was a groan-worthy thread. From seeing that WW was not in communication with Greg regarding the status of Pendragon, to witnessing the obligatory RPG.net dick-sucking. Greg's comment about chasing the game from Chaosium to Green Knight to WW is almost heartbreaking.
!i!
How did Pendragon land in White Wolf's hands anyway? Why did it leave Chaosium?
Quote from: brettmb;342868How did Pendragon land in White Wolf's hands anyway? Why did it leave Chaosium?
In
very brief terms:
- Chaosium owned the rights to the game, even after Greg left the company in the mid-90s. They fell on hard times as a result of the CCG/Wizard's Attic fiasco of the late '90s and needed an infusion of cash.
- Peter Corliss agreed to buy the game from Chaosium, formed Green Knight to publish the 4th edition, and had a pretty good go at it for a couple of years.
- Waning profits and inertia led Green Knight to a point where they were willing to give up the game. Enter White Wolf/Arthaus.
- WW arranged to have Greg Stafford retool a new, definitive, 5th edition of the game, but the rights belong to them.
I'm sure there are more details that others can insert, and possibly reorganise, but that's the picture in broad strokes.
!i!
I thought I read an interview where Greg S. said that when he ended his partnership in Chaosium, the main condition was his retaining the rights to Pendragon. So I don't quite get this current turn of events, but I may be misremembering and I can't find the interview right now.
Well, here's Peter's announcement and explanation (http://www.black-knight.org/pendragon/pndr_future.txt) of affairs from back in 1998. I forgot that his acquisition of the game was the result of Chaosium defaulting on a loan he extended to them. Le sigh.
!i!
What a mess. My advice is to dig up as much vintage Pendragon material on ebay as possible.
I must have misremembered. Elsewhere I found Stafford saying that Glorantha was his sole take-away from Chaosium when he left.
Quote from: brettmb;342880What a mess. My advice is to dig up as much vintage Pendragon material on ebay as possible.
I am awfully fond of my 1st edition
Pendragon collection. The game underwent precious little revision over the years -- mostly, new material was added and older material simply expanded. It all works together very well.
Quote from: Elliot Wilen;342881I must have misremembered. Elsewhere I found Stafford saying that Glorantha was his sole take-away from Chaosium when he left.
Yeah, Glorantha, his other baby. And, apparently, the name "RuneQuest", which he later parlayed to Mongoose. The Chaosium clusterfuck propagates further!
!i!
Chaosium is really the motherfucking king-shit ruler of Incompetent Companies.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;342953Chaosium is really the motherfucking king-shit ruler of Incompetent Companies.
There was a key hinge-point somewhere in the '90s, but I'm guessing the problems were already in the works. I was on the surface of the balloon with the
Nephilim RPG in the mid-90s and I could tell that something was going wrong on the inside of the company -- that project was fantastically rudderless. These days, they consistently fail to capitalise on any advantage they manage to work up.
!i!
On the other hand, they are still around in some way, while most of the mid-tier companies from that era (e.g. West End, GDW, Fasa or Steve Jackson Games) are long defunct, only remembered by a few aging fans.*
*Obligatory Koltar troll goes here.
Quote from: Melan;342974On the other hand, they are still around in some way, while most of the mid-tier companies from that era (e.g. West End, GDW, Fasa or Steve Jackson Games) are long defunct, only remembered by a few aging fans.
Huh, Steve Jackson is very much around and while WEG is a shadow of its former self, it does still exist.
Quote from: brettmb;342976Huh, Steve Jackson is very much around and while WEG is a shadow of its former self, it does still exist.
Steve Jackson doesn't really seem to see RPGs as it's main focus anymore though, and they've hardcored the hell out of their one main RPG franchise to the point of driving off almost all interest outside of a now small fanbase.
And WEG doesn't seem to be able to produce product that anyone wants to buy, when they can even get it out the door, so I have my doubts as to whether they should even count anymore. It's not even any of the same principals involved. May as well call Avalon Hill still alive.
Quote from: Melan;342974On the other hand, they are still around in some way, while most of the mid-tier companies from that era (e.g. West End, GDW, Fasa or Steve Jackson Games) are long defunct, only remembered by a few aging fans.*
WEG still exists; albeit as a subsidiary of another company. They still release D6, Masterbook, and Torg.
FASA became WizKids, in part to dodge debts owed. Same people, new company.
GDW split up in the black. Albeit with not enough captial left to remain so had they tried to continue. Most products still in release via FFE or licensees, often both. FFE has PDF CDRoms for $35 per product line, as in All of Classic Traveller for $35, or All of Twlight 2000 second ed for $35.
SJG is still going strong.
WWG, at the time strongest of the mid-tier, is a subsidiary of CCP now, and dying by inches, but still present.
Chaosium still incompetent but at least still in business.
RTalsorian still in business, still slow to release. Just reprinted Castle Falkensteinm has Mekton Zeta, and Cyberpunk going.
I'd say most of the mid tier are still in business, Melan.
Palladium is another one that's still around, and that despite "Crises of Treachery"!
Shit, its actually pretty cut-and-dry: most of the gaming companies that followed White Wolf's lead in the 90s are gone now, most of those who did not are still around (though in varying degrees of health).
RPGPundit
Quote from: aramis;342998FASA became WizKids, in part to dodge debts owed. Same people, new company.
Wizkids is dead, but might get revived by their new owner NECA.