Which RPGs have them, and how good are them?
I can think of only a few: Forward... to Adventure! has them (in the FtA!GN! sourcebook); I'll leave for others to comment on whether the rules are good or not.
Aces & Eights has them, and I think they're fairly good but out of all the subsystems they included in the game it may be the most complex.
I believe WFRP has them somewhere (the Companion?!) but I remember hardly anything about them.
Anyone else?
RPGPundit
Ghostbusters does. It is, as you might expect, sort of silly and quite random. The case goes through three "phases." Each phase has an event determined by a d6 roll. Sometimes it will provide a +/- to subsequent rolls but more frequently it requires a check of some kind.
The most amusing result is the court demanding you provide proof of a ghost in court. You are compelled to release a slimer and then have x rounds to catch it before it slimes everyone. But if you catch it on time, the crowd is impressed.
Quote from: RPGPundit;377162Which RPGs have them, and how good are them?
I can think of only a few: Forward... to Adventure! has them (in the FtA!GN! sourcebook); I'll leave for others to comment on whether the rules are good or not.
Aces & Eights has them, and I think they're fairly good but out of all the subsystems they included in the game it may be the most complex.
I believe WFRP has them somewhere (the Companion?!) but I remember hardly anything about them.
Anyone else?
RPGPundit
Aquelarre has a system based on adding some modifiers and rolling 1d10 + final mods. Depending on the modified roll, you were found guilty or not.
It pretty much fucking sucked.
One of the adventures for Boot Hill includes rules for trials; there's a trial phase and a sentencing phase. I don't recall the details off the top of my head.
Flashing Blades includes a section on crime and punishment. It describes how the courts work, the kinds of offenses liable to land a character in front of a magistrate, how prosecution and sentencing varies by social rank, and the ability to bribe or otherwise sway the magistrate. It also includes separate rules for military justice. Resolution is by a single die roll, but as adventurers in FB may be lawyers, I'm considering adding a sort of 'duel of wits' back-and-forth mechanic to the system, to simulate the arguments of counsel, and maybe add some modifiers for evidence or witnesses, to encourage investigation.
Believe it or not, Star Wars Saga has a rules system for that in... IIRC it was "Scum & Villainy". it's kinda nice if you want to have a trial act as a kind of challenging event to play and act out.
I can't tell how good the system is, but from a glance it looked as if it makes sense, actually.
I feel like I remember seeing such a system for Traveller once, but have no idea where, or if it was a general system or something specific to a single world/adventure. Anybody else able to confirm (and hopefully provide more detail on) this? Note that it could well have been in some third party source, including something obscure like 80s-era fanzines or the Keith brothers' "Lost Supplements" collection...
Quote from: winkingbishop;377175Ghostbusters does. It is, as you might expect, sort of silly and quite random. The case goes through three "phases." Each phase has an event determined by a d6 roll. Sometimes it will provide a +/- to subsequent rolls but more frequently it requires a check of some kind.
The most amusing result is the court demanding you provide proof of a ghost in court. You are compelled to release a slimer and then have x rounds to catch it before it slimes everyone. But if you catch it on time, the crowd is impressed.
Yet more reasons for me to regret not buying this game in its day...
The Guild Companion published my rules for legal trials in Rolemaster a couple months ago. I was going to do a matching article for investigations but ICE did something that I has put me off their products for good.
Galaxies In Shadow covers this stuff as well. I feel bad that RM got the better version since it was my second kick at it.
Marvel SAGA included them as well, as part of the core rules.
Never got around to using them in play, though.
Judges Guild, for D&D. Circa 1979
The rules for trials and litigation within the City-State of the Imperial Overlord can be found in the Ready Ref Sheets (a copy went for $5 on Ebay last week).
These are nicely integrated with the Social Level SL rules and can accurately reflect the defendants social standing changes as a result of the trial. Includes options for hiring a litigation trickster (lawyer), bribery, judge & jury fixing, the right of every citizen to trial-by-combat, and includes additional mods for officers and officials of the City State, and any guilds that may be interested in the trial at hand.
P.S. The cruel and humiliating list of punishments for the guilty, make this a must have supplement for any old-school GM.
Traveller has them and expanded on them in Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society articles. Villains & Vigilantes had a whole chapter on Crime & Punishment.
Crime and Punishment, by Keith Baker (Penumbra) has some d20 rules I seem to recall.
The Blacksand! supplement for Advanced Fighting Fantasy had crime and punishment rules with various legal skill modifiers for situation, social status etc.
The Cortex System Roleplaying Game rulebook devotes a couple of pages to it, with an overview, skills that would be used, pretrial, investigation, jury selection, the courtroom and the actual trial, including summation and jury deliberation.
Quote from: Imperator;377178Aquelarre has a system based on adding some modifiers and rolling 1d10 + final mods. Depending on the modified roll, you were found guilty or not.
It pretty much fucking sucked.
I for one liked it. I loved how belonging to the nobility gave you a higher bonus than being
actually innocent.
I remember all three of these books having a pretty detailed discussion trials and the legal system GURPS 3/e FANTASY, GURPS 3/e TREDROY, and GURPS 4/e BANESTORM. Granted , BANESTORM recycles much of the earlier third edition Fantasy stuff - but there was just enough detail that I knew what would happen if my players crossed the line with local authorities.
Over the years I have been strangely blessed with players who DON'T tend to piss off the local authorities when they hit towns and villages - in both Futuristic and Fantasy settings. My usual group of players is a pretty smart bunch on average. They prefer shmoozing with local authorities whenever possible or using deception and guile to get things done instead of killing every town guard encountered.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Claudius;377373I for one liked it. I loved how belonging to the nobility gave you a higher bonus than being actually innocent.
It was fun, but rather crud.
Aces and Eights has a micro-game to handle trials.
The micro game is a lot of fun when combined with role-playing and a PC's life is at stake. Jury tampering. Lawyering up. Hanging Judges.
It's especially fun if a player steps in as the lawyer or as a witness on the stand.
Although it's tailored for the old west I think you could easily adapt it for modern era RPGS.
YOu can download the Jury Mat here: http://www.kenzerco.com/aces_n_eights/downloads.html
The Jury members are placed on the mat and then 'swayed' by the evidence/lawyers leaning toward guilt or innocence. Jury members enter the process with their own biases and so forth making it tougher to swing them one way or the other.
As a lawyer you want to sway as many jury members toward your side before they go into final deliberation.
Quote from: RPGPundit;377162Which RPGs have them, and how good are them?
I can think of only a few....
Judges Guild did this back in 1975 or 1976. I think it's in the
City-State of the Invincible Overlord, and it's pretty well done overall.
Now that I think of it, Hackmaster also had one, with some very elaborate tables of crimes and levels of punishment.
RPGPundit
I seem to recall that GURPS had something along the lines of jury trials being Appearance contests between like the Defendant and the Plaintiff Attorney or something (it wasn't formal rules... I think it was an example of some kind)... I may be misremembering but I thought it was wonderfully cynical!
There's a good possibility I'm getting something wrong here, though.
Cheers,
-E.
Quote from: RPGPundit;378201Now that I think of it, Hackmaster also had one, with some very elaborate tables of crimes and levels of punishment.
RPGPundit
Doh!! And I wrote that section. Can't believe I actually forgot about them. ;)
We'll most likely be dusting those off giving them some spit and polish for Advanced HackMaster btw.
Quote from: JollyRB;379254Doh!! And I wrote that section. Can't believe I actually forgot about them. ;)
We'll most likely be dusting those off giving them some spit and polish for Advanced HackMaster btw.
Good stuff!
RPGPundit
FTL2248 (the most recent edition) has an extensive section on how to simulate court actions in any number of worlds. It was a complex set of modifiers and a number of rolls to resolve. It worked fairly well once you got really familiar with it. It was okay when you weren't.
Quote from: MoonHunter;379448FTL2248 (the most recent edition) has an extensive section on how to simulate court actions in any number of worlds. It was a complex set of modifiers and a number of rolls to resolve. It worked fairly well once you got really familiar with it. It was okay when you weren't.
I've never heard of this game.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;379668I've never heard of this game.
RPGPundit
It is one of the Tri-Tac System games published by Tri-Tac back in the day. it was originally published as two books... a player's guide and a GM book, and they had a neat dual-cover that formed one big picture when laid side-by side.
I played a bit of it back in high school, when my group went through a Tri-Tac system phase (
Bureau 13, Rogue 417, Fringeworthy, Incursion, etc.).
It's OOP, but still available electronically. Here's a link (http://tritacgames.com/FTL.htm) to its page, on one of the most eye-crushing websites in the game space.