Just like the title says. You guys know this is coming eventually. What I'm picturing is some sort of online server (sort of like a MMORPG) where you log in to view RPGs in text form--not necessarily a PDF. It would have to be something unprintable, something you can't cut and paste out of, in order to make game companies sign on. I got the idea because there's a program at work where all I can do is log in to the remote server and scroll for information inside their window. I guess I could probably do a screen capture if I wanted to, but there are ways around that, too, because you know someone out there is so pathetic that he would make it his life's goal to crack the system.
Anyway, the site would not be meant for use during play like a PDF, but for actual viewing, to see if you wanted to buy it, sort of like flipping through pages at the store. You'd pay a monthly fee like with Netflix and get to view as many games as you want. If I had to make a guess, I'd say OBS would be the first one to give it a shot--and if they haven't thought of it before now, they'd better give me a free lifetime subscription. :)
What do you think? Anyone have any other ideas on how this might work? Would this cause an increase or decrease in piracy?
Pete
I don't think this idea would be particularly workable for RPGs. I mean, has it worked for any other non-visual media?
RPGPundit
sounds like too much of a hassle.
Quote from: RPGPunditI don't think this idea would be particularly workable for RPGs. I mean, has it worked for any other non-visual media?
Has it been tried before with non-visual media? Why don't you think it would work? It seems to me like once they got the program up, it would pretty much run itself. I'd love to be able to look through as many RPGs as I wanted--I can definitely say it would increase my buying habits.
Pete
Quote from: pspahnHas it been tried before with non-visual media? Why don't you think it would work? It seems to me like once they got the program up, it would pretty much run itself. I'd love to be able to look through as many RPGs as I wanted--I can definitely say it would increase my buying habits.
Pete
Here's the thing - NetFlix works because it allows me to watch a movie. This is something people were already paying for (movie rentals, etc).
Your proposed system works more like a NetFlix system that would only send out previews of movies. Something that people do not pay for.
The only way a RPGFlix would work is if the system was designed to be used to help play the games, not just flip through the books.
Quote from: jgantsThe only way a RPGFlix would work is if the system was designed to be used to help play the games, not just flip through the books.
I don't use PDFs to play games, but that doesn't stop me from buying them.
$10 to flip through as many RPGs as I could in a month would have kept me from making some bad PDF purchases, but I suspect it would also have spurred me to buy quite a few more.
Pete
Quote from: pspahnI don't use PDFs to play games, but that doesn't stop me from buying them.
$10 to flip through as many RPGs as I could in a month would have kept me from making some bad PDF purchases, but I suspect it would also have spurred me to buy quite a few more.
Pete
I don't disagree that you, personally, would pay for the service. I'm just not sure it has any kind of market-wide appeal.
The service is a good start but I want more options for my money like online aids for any game I would buy, networking and more.
Just think about what a great resource it would be for GMs to have at their fingertips any type of game for any genre. So, you have an idea for a pirate adventure, you cruise on over to RPGflix and pull up all the pirate-related adventures to mine for ideas, but while you're looking you see one you really like and decide to buy it. Or, your players want to run a WWII scenario and you just can't come up with anything interesting, but somewhere on RPGflix, someone has just what you're looking for, and you don't have to waste time and money sorting through reviews to see if it's right for you. That new d20 setting is out and everyone tells you how great it is, but now you can view it for yourself without having to shell out tons of cash beforehand.
It's probably a pipe dream, but I can think of a lot of products I would like to skim before I buy and since I can't I probably won't buy them. Ah well.
Pete
Quote from: jgantsHere's the thing - NetFlix works because it allows me to watch a movie. This is something people were already paying for (movie rentals, etc).
Your proposed system works more like a NetFlix system that would only send out previews of movies. Something that people do not pay for.
The only way a RPGFlix would work is if the system was designed to be used to help play the games, not just flip through the books.
Actually, if you could see the whole thing, it would be more like streaming or a huge ass preview at least:p
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Quote from: pspahnJust think about what a great resource it would be for GMs to have at their fingertips any type of game for any genre. So, you have an idea for a pirate adventure, you cruise on over to RPGflix and pull up all the pirate-related adventures to mine for ideas, but while you're looking you see one you really like and decide to buy it. Or, your players want to run a WWII scenario and you just can't come up with anything interesting, but somewhere on RPGflix, someone has just what you're looking for, and you don't have to waste time and money sorting through reviews to see if it's right for you. That new d20 setting is out and everyone tells you how great it is, but now you can view it for yourself without having to shell out tons of cash beforehand.
It's probably a pipe dream, but I can think of a lot of products I would like to skim before I buy and since I can't I probably won't buy them. Ah well.
Pete
Pirates are already providing that service. I know all of my games become available for free almost as soon as I release them.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmicePirates are already providing that service. I know all of my games become available for free almost as soon as I release them.
-clash
CORRECTION: A lot of games I would like to skim LEGALLY. . . :)
Pete
Quote from: RPGPunditI don't think this idea would be particularly workable for RPGs. I mean, has it worked for any other non-visual media?
RPGPundit
Yeah, they're called libraries here in the US ;)
Pete - I think the only way this could work was if it was for the whole shebang. That is, $10 (or some number) per month and I get online access (non printing, or maybe limited printing of specifically designated material) to all of the content in all of the books in the library.
I dub it "RPGClix"...
and I want a cut if you do it and use that name :D
A netflix for books. However one thing that Netflix has an advantage with is that DVDs are a compact format. I am not sure it would have worked in a world of VCRs and videotapes. Books may be simply too bulky to run in a netflix style system.
How about we make the service just like a RPG store?
* They could re-release the iSmell USB device (formerly from Digiscents) to give off that game-store smell.
* Turn on your speakers for shrill background noise of kids playing magic and yelling a lot.
* Everything you look at is hard to see because of a semi-black filter (to simulate the poor lighting).
* The service contains supplement e-books with no main rule e-books.
* While you are looking through the book, a giant window pops up every 2 minutes to ask if you need help finding anything and/or reminding you they can special order books.
* If you find a book you want to buy, the checkout takes 20+ minutes while you wait around for the cash register to decide to serve you.
* There's a window for entering questions, but the only answers you get back are variations of "I don't know..."
Well I should have used google first.
http://www.booksfree.com/
Somebody is trying it. Except it is for paperbacks.
This has hardbacks and looks to be slightly more expensive
https://www.bookswim.com/
So the question then how much your subscriptions will have to be to cover shipping, losses, and aquistions. Boy I can see the market for adventures tanking if a popular service like this exists.
Thanks for the link estar. I will be trying the //www.booksfree.com one.
I could see this working if you could view the whole book online, in their own window and it can't be printed, make only 75% of the page viewable at once and that will pretty much stop the screen capture problem.
For that $10 you get x hrs of access to the site. That I would pay for if it had enough material for the games I would normally play. I'd still want the core books but it'd be a great tool to see what I want to buy and also to use at the game table or for those one shot nights or for adventure books that you are only going to use once.
Quote from: flyingmicePirates are already providing that service. I know all of my games become available for free almost as soon as I release them.
-clash
But, see, that's
lame.Nevermind any discussion of ethics or market factors or other whatever.
Lame.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenBut, see, that's lame.
Nevermind any discussion of ethics or market factors or other whatever.
Lame.
Levi?
What's lame? That people do this? That I mention it? That it would be competition for this idea? That I would consider it competition for this idea?
And I didn't mention ethics or market factors. I brought it up as a fact that should be aknowledged and dealt with. I've had to deal with it, and so have many other small press publishers.
I will say it really grates when I see that 200+ pdfs of my latest game have been DLed in the last day, during which I sold five pdfs of that game, which is a true story.
-clash
I can already download whole product lines for free. Why would I pay for this?
Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerI can already download whole product lines for free. Why would I pay for this?
Legally?
Quote from: flyingmiceWhat's lame? That people do this?
That people do it.
Downloading for-pay games for free may be grey-legal in some places, may be something a person can excuse to their own self, may not even hurt sales figures all that badly.
It's still lame.
I know this is veering away from the original idea but would adding an option to borrow hard copies for a period of time change anyone's opinion...kinda like a netFLIX wish would let you stream movies an unlimited number of times and/or let you have so many DVDs per month. I am just thinking of the links a few posts down by estar. I could go on more but I feel pushing much more desires another thread rather than warping this one.
Quote from: Levi KornelsenThat people do it.
Downloading for-pay games for free may be grey-legal in some places, may be something a person can excuse to their own self, may not even hurt sales figures all that badly.
It's still lame.
Agreed entirely!
-clash
As a publisher, I can tell you right now, there is no way I would go for this. To make the consumers willing to sign on, you'd have to make the price really low-- which means that the producers don't want to have anything to do with it. The prices have to be low because people can already get hardcopies of the books for cheap on amazon, ebay, and overstock-- and pdfs for even less $. How much would the rpg companies be getting per month from this, what %? If they all got the same thing, WotC and WW would be pissed that I dare to get the same $ as them. If it is proportional to company size, small publishers like me would not find it worthwhile to even post product there at all. Furthermore, Wizards wouldn't go for it, since it would not help their DDI thing that they want people to pay $15/month for (yes, they keep saying $10-15, but we all know that means $15).
I just don't think it would work. Now, on the otherhand, if you do this with hardcopies of books-- like some sort of penpal type service, where people swap books through the mail, that might be able to work-- but if a book got damaged it would be tough to resolve. You could do some sort of DRM pdfs on cds-- but I think people'd rather just buy and own a pdf every month than swap them in the mail like that...
Also, there are some sites that actively wish to give you their whole game system in the hopes that you will want to buy other items from them. For example, Spirit of the Century. I found it was rather close to the rules for another game I bought online, so I didn't bother. But, it is there for the downloading. White-Wolf and others have starter rules too. It's all legal, and they are generous downloads (some of which have been useful to me even after I bought the game--quick start=usually easier set of rules).
Quote from: RPGPunditI don't think this idea would be particularly workable for RPGs. I mean, has it worked for any other non-visual media?
RPGPundit
There are places where you can preview songs and see if you'd like to download them.
Quote from: beejazzThere are places where you can preview songs and see if you'd like to download them.
Which is completely different than what is being discussed here, because the music previews are limited previews (either a limited sample of the song or the # of times you can listen) and most importantly, free.
You would be right, however, to use music services that allow unlimited listening per month but charge for actual downloads (such as Napster, etc) as they are non-visual. However, I'm pretty sure Pundit meant non-A/V when he just said non-V.
In any case, I still use the same argument - that the monthly fee for renting games / music / movies justifies itself beause what you end up with is what you would normally pay for (the ability to play / listen / watch).
What the OP suggests is trying to get people to pay for a system that would only allow you to preview the products (which you can already do from a store or using free pdf previews). And while this might make sense for the very small selection of hard-core gamers who constantly buy new and different material AND would like to be more careful in their purchases, the other 99.999% of the people in the hobby would have little to no use for it.