Do you give a fuck about the people behind the games you buy/read/play? Ignoring their qualities as authors, do their personalities ever influence your purchases?
Is it possible for you to be bothered enough by the personality (or personal life or politics) of an RPG author that you will not buy his products, even if you think you'd like them?
RPGPundit
I don't care at all.
Me either.
Quote from: RPGPundit;279752Do you give a fuck about the people behind the games you buy/read/play? Ignoring their qualities as authors, do their personalities ever influence your purchases?
Is it possible for you to be bothered enough by the personality (or personal life or politics) of an RPG author that you will not buy his products, even if you think you'd like them?
RPGPundit
Nope. Heck, most of the games on my shelf I could not tell you who the authors are without looking.
That said, I have had my books "not bought" many times over by many people for the weirdest reasons. I have also had people say they bought my books because I was so generous and kind.
For me, in the end, it is more about the game and the customer service. If I ask about your game and you tell me to buy the book, I consider that poor customer service. If you tell be you aren't going to buy my book because I do not oppose abortion then I likely wont believe you were going to buy it in the first place. So, my general rule, you can be a big ass. I don't care. I have bought GMS' stuff in the past not because he was so charming and took long hot showers with me on weekends but because he puts out good books.
I, however, seem to be the exception...at least on the internets. ;)
Not me, I can't even say RPG author and celebrity in the same sentence without a ridiculous smirk on my face. There are certain authors whose books I will buy sight unseen with nary a back cover description. These are authors the consistently deliver books/games I enjoy and as long as they keep it up, I'll keep buying.
The list is pretty short: Greg Stolze, John Tynes, Justin Achille, Bill Bridges and the very recently added Brett Bernstein.
I also have a list f authors I usually like. I try to keep up with what they're up to. Everything by them warrants at least a looksy but not neccisarily a purchase.
This list is pretty long, but some examples are: Steve Jackson, Kevin Siembieda, Keeneth Hite, Monte Cook, CJ Carella,
There's very few authors I actively avoid. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is: Rob Heinsoo.
Quote from: KrakaJak;279765Not me, I can't even say RPG author and celebrity in the same sentence without a ridiculous smirk on my face.
I have to second this...BIGTIME!!!
Quote from: RPGPundit;279752Do you give a fuck about the people behind the games you buy/read/play? Ignoring their qualities as authors, do their personalities ever influence your purchases?
Is it possible for you to be bothered enough by the personality (or personal life or politics) of an RPG author that you will not buy his products, even if you think you'd like them?
RPGPundit
Pundit,
That all depends what you mean and which context.
Since I met a LOT of the RPG celebs or authors because of the charity jail thing at GenCon and ORIGINS that tends to color my views about them.
If they are good sports or help out the charity - then I tend to have a positive view of them. Hell, many times I've thought about buying games that I wouldn't otherwise - just because the author or celen made a positive impression with me.
Two can think of right away that were good sports and very decent people:
Dave Arneson and
Larry Elmore.
Every time I saw
Arneson, he would stop by our table chat and have real conversations with us. Many times he put his grandkids or some friend of his in the jail to help out the charity.
Larry Elmore? He smiled the whole time and signed autographs thjrough the bars. GenCon was the second con i ever saw him at . Even at a failing bust of a Sci-Fi con in Kentucky in 1999 he was a good guy and amiable with everyone.
Here's one for you: That
Kevin Simbieda guy everyone complains about ??
He made a good impresson with me at ORIGINS one year. He and his wife both cheerfully got jailed - then he paid 40 to 50 bucks to have their bulletinboard regulars jailed.
Now I know that since then he has gotten a shaky reputation with gamers - but that weekend he made a good impression.
Oh yeah -
Peter Adkinson. He has always treated my friends and I in the best way that he possibly could. Many times he straightened out hiccups or poroblems that happened at GenCon.
Lou Zocchi - every time I bump into that guy its a fun conversation and I feel like I gotta buy something from him. Even the year I wound up watching his booth for him.
There is a snot or jerk that works for Games Workshop - but I'll reveal his name only in a PM.
The rest of the GW guys seemed alright.
Oh and the SJG bunch??
They know me by name and sight at this point - they're always pretty nice to me.
- Ed C.
Have to agree that the term "celebrity" is completely ridiculous for RPG authors.
That said, if I know for sure that I won't like something, then I'll never buy it. Conversely for if I do like something, I'll buy it even if I think the author's a jerk.
However, I'll most certainly take a chance on a game written by a friend of mine, or to a lesser degree to someone who seems cool to me. Conversely, if someone seems like a jerk, I'm less likely to look too closely or buy their game on a chance. After all, there are plenty of games I like out there already for me to play, often by people I respect. I feel little need to give jerks my time and money.
I don't think it would bother me at all. To be fair I it's not like I know game designer's personally. I spoke breifly with Robin Laws once, that's about it. For what it's worth he seemed a decent chap.
There are a few indie game designers who come across as a little abrasive. That still would not stop me buying their game if I thought I would enjoy it, though I would't necessarily want to hang out with them.
That seems to happen a lot in music to me. Whenever I see interviews of members from my favourite bands they always come across really poorly, either totally self-absorbed (usually the lead singer) or just a complete geek (usually the guitar player) or with a massive chip on their shoulder (usually the drummer or bass players). Best let the music speak for itself.
I guess I generally only care about an author's personality as embodied in their works. I suppose I might not have bought Sorcerer & Sword if I had formed a dislike of Ron Edwards (based on his behaviour on his Forge forums) prior to buying it. I hear enough bad stuff about Simbieda I doubt I'd look at Palladium stuff.
I recall one case my buying decision was based on personality, but positive rather than negative. I was trying to decide whether to commit to Basic Fantasy RPG or Labyrinth Lord RPG for my old-school-basics gaming. Dan Proctor seems such a cool guy, it pushed me to get the latter and buy a print copy of LL rather than BFRPG.
Quote from: RPGPundit;279752Do you give a fuck about the people behind the games you buy/read/play? Ignoring their qualities as authors, do their personalities ever influence your purchases?
I shouldn't. But I do.
It's more often related to:
- How the author treats others (though as the major example here has mellowed out, so has my attitude towards his company), or
- Other products the author/publisher has put out regardless of if it relates to the product I actually want. I can think of 3 examples of the top of my head, one example forumites here will be immediately able to guess. I've heard interesting things about In A Wicked Age, but due to Poison'd, I won't touch it.
Some writers' attitudes and actions "in public" (i.e. on message boards) have turned me off to purchasing their games. It might be seen as silly by some, but if someone rubs me the wrong way, I'm not going to support them with my money, especially when it comes to non-essential entertainment products like RPGs.
Quote from: RPGPundit;279752Do you give a fuck about the people behind the games you buy/read/play?
As per the release date thread, this sort of thing doesn't particularly matter to me at all, unless it somehow effects me or mine. That said, there's a certain degree of social responsibility behind every dollar you spend, and if a developer were eating babies or something, I'd not want to feed their baby-eating just to satisfy my desire to play their game.
Kind of, and kind of not. See, it's like this:
First off, I believe that RPG authors, designers and publishers deserve credit and recognition for their work, especially if it is good work. "Good" here can mean anything from "inspired design" to "a damn fun game to read and play", so that's subjective.
There are some designers and authors whose names will pull me toward a product, just as I'm likelier to be interested in seeing a film by Luc Besson or Sam Raimi. Ultimately, it'll be the game itself that sells it or not, but if the designer has done things that I like, then my eye is headed that way.
As for the person, well...I've met a few game designers, and I'm lucky to have met ones whom I like as people. I don't know what the hell S John Ross' politics are, or if Chris Engle has a secret room full of cat porn* or something, but those things are irrelevant. The product is not the man.
If it turns out that S John is the one with the room full of cat porn, well...Encounter Critical is an awesome game.
*Actually, he doesn't -- unless he cleaned it up real fast when I was looking to buy his house.
Outside of them authoring good games before, or bad ones for that matter, I am not sure that the author(s) in particular influence my RPG buying habits that often. If I am aware of a particular author and looking forward, or looking to avoid them, it's based of their previous works. I suppose if, like Engine said, they were notorious for something really perverse it probably would sway my purchase one way or the other. Usually, though, I know RPG lines and publisher/companies not specific authors.
Quote from: CavScout;279823I suppose if, like Engine said, they were notorious for something really perverse it probably would sway my purchase one way or the other.
One way
or the other? Like, "Hey, that guy exists solely on a diet of panda tears; I'm going to buy his game!" ;)
I have to admit that sometimes it will get me interested in a game that I might not otherwise pay much attention to, but it's not the key criterion in determining whether I buy the game or not.
Quote from: Engine;279825One way or the other? Like, "Hey, that guy exists solely on a diet of panda tears; I'm going to buy his game!" ;)
Hey, I'd buy his book!
There is one author who's products I won't buy, first because I don't like them and second because he was something of a prick toward me for saying so on a website.
Other than that, I'm not really into the whole name game in rpgs.
Not in terms of purchases. If there's a game I want, I buy it. I don't care who wrote it. I don't follow any particular author, buying his or her product over others, etc., either.
There are folks I think better of than I do other RPG authors and whose opinions I pay closer attention to, however.
Seanchai
I have met many mainstream celebrities and household names through my work so I am never impressed by *famous people*.
I am impressed by talent and ability though in any field.
Two people that have impressed me through their games and meeting them in person are Greg Stafford and Robin Laws.
Both their works do stand up to scrutiny and are often revolutionary.
Both are approachable and interesting in conversation.
Are there flaws? Yes but they are hardly not worrying about.
Depends really. Most of the time, I don't notice or care. There are a few people whose behaviors have been so incredibly bad that I won't buy from them. It's not just being rude, or such. I've seen that, I can deal with that.
No its much lower behavior: Disrespecting the very people you expect to buy your product, add to that fraudulent behavior and outright lies.
A few designers I worry about and will want to know a LOT more about a game they produce before I pick it up. Simply because their designs tend to be shaky, albeit well received.
There are authors I just don't care about what they produce, ever, but that's a different circumstance.
We're all celebrities on the Internet. :)
Quote from: Stuart;279898We're all celebrities on the Internet. :)
I'm not.
(http://www.dear-god.net/cms/_ArticleImages/2008/05/sad-face-paper-bag.jpg)
Not really. I'm not impressed by half of them, and the other half I'd actually game with. Maybe that makes me the it depends on who type.
Quote from: Stuart;279898We're all celebrities on the Internet. :)
Sort of true. Some people at cons have recognized me and others just based on our avatar pics.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;279954Some people at cons have recognized me and others just based on our avatar pics.
That's true. I'm frequently mistaken for Michael Twoyoungmen.
(I'm the tall one, by the way.)
Quote from: The Shaman;279956That's true. I'm frequently mistaken for Michael Twoyoungmen.
(I'm the tall one, by the way.)
At GenCon, Dr. Rotwang recognized me from my various pics and I KNEW it had to be him because he was wearing a pink tie.
- Ed C.
Other than online I've only met a handful of people who write games. Most of the people I've met online I barely know, let alone know enough to take seriously one way or the other. The few I've met in real life, well one I guess-maybe two, I forget, seem nice enough, but again how do you really know someone you spend less than twelve hours with?
Since they don't really affect how me and mine play I don't give much of a damn about the people who write RPG's. I'm sure they're great people, and I don't wish them harm or anything-I just don't really care.
Like someone said earlier, the term celebrity seems a little a little ridiculous, but if Pundit showed up on my doorstep I'd buy him a beer, and invite him to play a game or two with us, same for anyone really. We're pretty low stress.
One thing I definitely don't do is keep on what these guys are doing from day to day. I couldn't tell you where their blogs are, or what they're up to. I'm busy enough as is.
Shit. I think I just made a liar of myself. I just saw Chris Kubasik was logged in - you might remember him as the guy who wrote the short story on which the film The Matrix was based, or from his superb Earthdawn novels - and actually felt a little thrill. Still, it's not about celebrity, but about precedent, so I don't feel so bad.
Seriously, the guy who wrote Mother Speaks is here. It's actually kind of freaking me out.
It's really hard to think of them as celebrities when you feel you know them personally.
Quote from: Silverlion;279885No its much lower behavior: Disrespecting the very people you expect to buy your product,
I agree, but with a caveat: Customers can be just as disrespectful. Worse, the behavior of your customers online often has a greater effect on whether someone buys your RPG, and if they're alienating the kind of customers you want, it's just sometimes better to tell them to fuck off.
...
Not in so many words mind you :)
Other than Gygax, there is no other celebrity in RPGS. That established, the relevant infamy of writers such as Siembieda is non-existent outside of the RPG industry.
So, with all that said, if somebody is a cockweasel, I'm less inclined to help put food in front of their brats' faces. Especially for a shit product like Palladium or Rifts. So, that being said, I will not buy a game released by CavScout.
Quote from: shalvayez;280278So, with all that said, if somebody is a cockweasel, I'm less inclined to help put food in front of their brats' faces. Especially for a shit product like Palladium or Rifts. So, that being said, I will not buy a game released by CavScout.
Well, at least me and your ex-wife agree that you are a fucktard.
Quote from: CavScout;280281Well, at least me and your ex-wife agree that you are a fucktard.
Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
Quote from: shalvayez;280278Other than Gygax, there is no other celebrity in RPGS. That established, the relevant infamy of writers such as Siembieda is non-existent outside of the RPG industry.
There is such a thing as subcultural celebrity, you know.
Someone who isn't into pipes will probably have no idea who Alfred Dunhill was, or Aldo Montini, or G.L. Pease, or Piers Nording. But thousands of people would know who that is, all of them having in common that they'd be pipe smokers.
Siembieda will not be known by anyone who doesn't roleplay, but he has sold hundreds of thousands of books with his name on it, and is likely known, at least in passing, by millions of people.
So claiming he's not a celebrity in the sense that George Clooney is a celebrity is technically accurate.
On the other hand claiming that he's a non-celebrity the way
you are a non-celebrity is not accurate.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditThere is such a thing as subcultural celebrity, you know.
This I totally agree with. Today, however, there are very few authors that could even claim that. Gygax and Siembieda are far from the tabletop names of Cook and ummmmm. . . Monte Cook. He's the only RPG author I've ever seen with his name come before a title on a cover.
Really, I don't think any other author could even call themselves a RPG celebrity. Even Siembieda is damn near a direct salesman of his games.
Quote from: KrakaJak;280470This I totally agree with. Today, however, there are very few authors that could even claim that. Gygax and Siembieda are far from the tabletop names of Cook and ummmmm. . . Monte Cook. He's the only RPG author I've ever seen with his name come before a title on a cover.
Really, I don't think any other author could even call themselves a RPG celebrity. Even Siembieda is damn near a direct salesman of his games.
Well, there is "Tim Kirk's Hearts and Souls (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/products/hearts-souls/)," my favorite supers game. :D
-clash
Clive Thompson on the Age of Microcelebrity: Why Everyone's a Little Brad Pitt (http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/15-12/st_thompson)
Internet Famous: Julia Allison and the Secrets of Self-Promotion (http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/magazine/16-08/howto_allison)
I think it is hard for RPG authors to have real celebrity sense most gamers think that they could have done a better job.
Quote from: shalvayez;280313Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
bals
Personalities no, I mean I won't say never because who knows what one might do, but it never has to date.
Past work, obviously. If Jon Snead's name is on a magic system, I'll look twice. He writes better magic systems than any other designer I know.
Similarly, Dennis Detwiller, Ken Hite, Greg Stolze, any of those names gets a second glance, but not guaranteed purchase, there's plenty of Hite and Stolze I've not picked up despite my regard for both in terms of quality.
But if say a particular designer alternates between game design and posting on //www.hatefilledbigots.com that's not really my business.