What's with all this dice rolling? I mean, fuck, why? Just state what you're trying to do and let the GM decide if you succeed or fail. All that fucking dice rolling just wastes time.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Dominus NoxWhat's with all this dice rolling? I mean, fuck, why? Just state what you're trying to do and let the GM decide if you succeed or fail. All that fucking dice rolling just wastes time.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Preach it!
...wait were you kidding? After recently trying out a narrative RPG with a new group here in San Diego, I've found myself confused about the need for dice. Depends on the group I guess, or perhaps the system.
BTW how many diceless rpgs are there? Nobilis, and Amber I've tried. Any others? Delira has cards (which is certainly diceless), Unisystem has an option for it (don't know if that counts).
Quote from: mrlostBTW how many diceless rpgs are there? Nobilis, and Amber I've tried. Any others? Delira has cards (which is certainly diceless), Unisystem has an option for it (don't know if that counts).
Puppetland and
Active Exploits? Also,
Everway has its Fortune Deck but no dice.
Quote from: Dominus NoxWhat's with all this dice rolling? I mean, fuck, why? Just state what you're trying to do and let the GM decide if you succeed or fail. All that fucking dice rolling just wastes time.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
I'm certain you're just being sarcastic and baiting, but I'll reply in good faith anyway.
Randomizers are needed for two reasons. First is that randomness makes things more interesting and keeps people on the edge of their seat. You're never sure what the outcome may be when chance is involved. Generally speaking, things which involve chance are more stimulating than those which don't.
The other reason is that you ultimately need something totally objective for many forms of resolution in a game. No player or GM is ever going to be completely objective. They will always have their biases. The best we can hope for is to set a chance of something happening and let the dice decide. Bias will still creep into this method, but the ultimate decision was made through the interaction of chance and the established rules of the game.
Edit: By "diceless" I'm assuming we're talking about "randomizerless". Even though games like Dragonlance and Marvel Saga use cards instead of dice for resolution, I don't consider them "diceless" as the chance of the card draw merely replaces the randomizing normally handled by dice.
For me, GMing would be so boring if I always knew what was going to happen that I probably wouldn't even bother. Dice let me be as surprised as anybody else.
What I don't get is people who see "this game only uses six-sided dice" as a positive. Fuck, why? Polyhedra are fun! d12s, d20s, d10s, d8s and even d4s (the runts of the dice family) are as much a part of the hobby as the weird bats to golfers.
Quote from: MelanWhat I don't get is people who see "this game only uses six-sided dice" as a positive. Fuck, why? Polyhedra are fun! d12s, d20s, d10s, d8s and even d4s (the runts of the dice family) are as much a part of the hobby as the weird bats to golfers.
Well d20s can blow me till their lips turn blue, because I just can't get enough dork on to buy a rolling tower and the damn things are just unruly. I do have an affinity for d12s, but sadly they get so very little use. Maybe I'm just cheering for the underdog? The only d8 I actually like is the translucent orange one I've had since I started playing P&P in the 1980's AKA The Die Of Healing. d4s are ok till somebody drops one on the carpet and doesn't pick it up. That basically leaves d10 (with their oddball '0' for '10', but only sometimes) and d6s. But with age I'm finding scanning multiple dice with pips or numbers annoying and d6s are like rats, if there is one there's going to be a bunch of them.
So there I am with the The Die Of Healing, marginally tolerating d10s, and hand-Dremeled and enamelled blank d6s, unless I'm playing Fudge and they are factory custom.
Hrmmmmm.....I really need to find someone that's willing to try out Amber or Nobilis. I know someone that has an Amber book buried somewhere, but the problem is that they've played and want nothing to do with in now. :(
Quote from: GabrielEven though games like Dragonlance and Marvel Saga use cards instead of dice for resolution, I don't consider them "diceless" as the chance of the card draw merely replaces the randomizing normally handled by dice.
That reminds me of another game:
Marvel Universe RPG (
MURPG) is diceless and based purely on constant resource allocation.
Quote from: YamoFor me, GMing would be so boring if I always knew what was going to happen that I probably wouldn't even bother.
In diceless RPGs, the element of surprise generally comes from the actions of the players, especially since a fair number of these games tend to be rather high-powered and allow the PCs a chance to pull off the strangest plans.
Quote from: MelanWhat I don't get is people who see "this game only uses six-sided dice" as a positive. Fuck, why? Polyhedra are fun! d12s, d20s, d10s, d8s and even d4s (the runts of the dice family) are as much a part of the hobby as the weird bats to golfers.
Populism.
D6s are bloody everywhere, and they're cheap, which means you can count on absolutely everyone either having some already, or knowing where they can get some.
Until you can go to your local Target and buy polyhedral sets in their board game section, this will continue to be an advantage in terms of accessbility to the general populace.
Not that it's necessary, per se, after all, D&D does fine, and I think in fact that the novelty of polyhedra has it's own positive effects.
Personally, I prefer to stick with d6s and percentiles for my own designs, just for the sake of simplicity, and the fact that I just plain don't like most of the polyhedral range.
I personally love D12's, and wish more games used them extensively.
Oh, obtopic: Why roll dice? Because I dig dice in my roleplaying games. They're fun.
Quote from: RedFoxI personally love D12's, and wish more games used them extensively.
I kid about the underdog part. I like them because are a 'natural' polyhedron and they have lots of sides but aren't nearly as prone to roll away like d20s. They also provide a nice wide range in a single die without the totally-out-there random of d20s.
Quote from: GrimGentIn diceless RPGs, the element of surprise generally comes from the actions of the players, especially since a fair number of these games tend to be rather high-powered and allow the PCs a chance to pull off the strangest plans.
Not the same, lad. In the end, the final decision is still mine.
Not so when randomizers are involved.
I like dice, except d4, hurty pointy little things.
Oh and d30, fucking idiotic idea, never stops rolling, it ends up rolling across the room and when you go to find it you step on a d4.
One simple reason: its much much easier to make a good interesting system with dice, than a good interesting system that's diceless.
There's only ONE truly diceless (as in, with no randomizers whatsoever) RPG out of any that I've seen that was any good at all, and that's Amber. If you don't consider the "fate cards" to be a randomizer, then you could add Everway to that list. But that's it. Every other diceless game ever made has been utter crap, because its really hard to create a good and interesting system that allows for the feeling of the unexpected to occur without a randomizer. In Everway, you have the fate deck acting as a substitute randomizer; and in fact, even in Amber you have the player's own descriptiveness and rhetorical skills acting as the randomizer.
But its much simpler to make a game with a basic die mechanic and not go to all the trouble.
RPGPundit
Quote from: BalbinusI like dice, except d4, hurty pointy little things.
Oh and d30, fucking idiotic idea, never stops rolling, it ends up rolling across the room and when you go to find it you step on a d4.
lol
Quote from: GrimGentPuppetland and Active Exploits? Also, Everway has its Fortune Deck but no dice.
Oh darn, I forgot Puppetland, I really want to run that sometime.
Quote from: RPGPunditEvery other diceless game ever made has been utter crap, because its really hard to create a good and interesting system that allows for the feeling of the unexpected to occur without a randomizer.
Some of us might say that resource management handles that better than straight comparison between stats, of course...
I've tried diceless, even enjoyed some of it.
But I think I can safely say that whatever appeal the diceless fans see in it, it's not for me.
Card-based RPGs, from what I have seen, are even worse than diceless for my money.
Quote from: BalbinusI like dice, except d4, hurty pointy little things.
Oh and d30, fucking idiotic idea, never stops rolling, it ends up rolling across the room and when you go to find it you step on a d4.
Did you ever play with a d100? It makes the d30 seem quite reasonable.
I like the d4, especially the 'spin and toss in the air' technique of rolling it. :D
Quote from: StuartDid you ever play with a d100?
I've got one of those. It was a present (I'd never have bought it for myself).
If I could access RPG.net I'd put up the picture of Kevin Cook's d120.
I want a d14, d16 and d18. :)
Stuart: d14s start here (http://www.advancinghordes.com/index.php/manufacturers_id/2/sort/2a/page/17). d16s are on the next page (http://www.advancinghordes.com/index.php/manufacturers_id/2/sort/2a/page/18). Alas, not even Lou Zocchi thought of d18s! :frog:
Quote from: MelanWhat I don't get is people who see "this game only uses six-sided dice" as a positive. Fuck, why? Polyhedra are fun! d12s, d20s, d10s, d8s and even d4s (the runts of the dice family) are as much a part of the hobby as the weird bats to golfers.
1) Rolling a hell of alot of dice can be fun (or tragic, when the GM rolls alot of dice.)
2) On the opposite side of things, rolling just a few dice can be tragic (or that "easy kill" feeling when the GM rolls just a few)
3) When rolling a hell of alot of dice, it's easy to read, if they are all of the same time. (Unsurprisingly, you'll often find d6 sets at hobby shops. Can't say the same about other dice.)
4) Especially for new players, d6 are very familier. Monopoly, the best selling board game of all time, uses d6s. I've never seen a board game use a D20.
5) They're cheap. You can probably even grab a few out of your old board games.
I actually own a d100 -- my dad gave it to me from his roleplaying days in the '70s -- it functions by having a weight on the inside that keeps it from rolling too much. Why the hell don't people use d100's? or d30's? or hell, for that matter, why don't people just use a random number generator?
Quote from: Kashell(Unsurprisingly, you'll often find d6 sets at hobby shops. Can't say the same about other dice.)
Except those tubes of d10s that are coloured for, I believe, WoD.
QuoteWhy the hell don't people use d100's? or d30's?
I've found even the weighted ones roll on as bad as the d20s. And d30's? Why? Actually, the real question is why did d20s start getting used to begin with? Somebody
must have asked this, if not anywhere else, in those Col. Playdoh threads over on ENWorld.
Quoteor hell, for that matter, why don't people just use a random number generator?
I noticed last time I was in at the FLGS they had those for something like 30ish dollars. They 'rolled' pretty much any number of sides, including really oddball stuff like 7 and 13. They also rolled dicepools of up to about a dozen d6, not sure offhand if they rolled multiples of other sizes.
Quote from: KashellI actually own a d100 -- my dad gave it to me from his roleplaying days in the '70s -- it functions by having a weight on the inside that keeps it from rolling too much. Why the hell don't people use d100's? or d30's?
The d100 my group had in school did not stop rolling. Ever. Fifteen years later we still need to know if Eric's thief picked that lock or not.
In my last campaign we used a d30 like so (http://jrients.blogspot.com/2006/04/new-dd-house-rule-effective.html). It was pretty fun.
Quote from: BalbinusI like dice, except d4, hurty pointy little things.
Oh and d30, fucking idiotic idea, never stops rolling, it ends up rolling across the room and when you go to find it you step on a d4.
QFT!
I also have a d100, bought as a present by a friend. It's an amusing novelty but I'd never actually use it for a game. The 'faces' are just too small and if I rolled it I'd be scared of never seeing it again.
As for diceless (randomiser-less), I like Nobilis' system myself. Rolling dice is fun though. Sometimes I think that I should get some blank dice to roll when playing it :D
Quote from: Geoff HallAs for diceless (randomiser-less), I like Nobilis' system myself. Rolling dice is fun though. Sometimes I think that I should get some blank dice to roll when playing it :D
Well, the idea of "dicing"
Nobilis has been kicked about as long as the game itself has been around: all you'd really have to do is add a success roll somewhere in there. But that just seems a little, er, pointless.
Quote from: GrimGentWell, the idea of "dicing" Nobilis has been kicked about as long as the game itself has been around: all you'd really have to do is add a success roll somewhere in there. But that just seems a little, er, pointless.
I can imagine lots of fun to be had by introducing a single Fudge die into any action. The acting value is modified by +1, 0, or -1. Just a hint of randomness for those who like their games less deterministic.
Brownhairedvalkyrie and I love weird dice, although she's the real collector with a d3, d5, d7, d14, d16, and a zocchihedron she just got. I like the cylindrical or barrel dice, as I have more control on where they roll.