TheRPGSite

...is finally here. Almost three years later.

It's about what I'd expect from FFG. Like all their stuff I have no burning issue with what they've included (i don't know of any errors though i'm sure knowing FFG they will soon come to light), but it's more a question of what they didn't include and how it's organised. The first chapter is a fair selection of critters and monsters. The next chapter is races which is what people really want.

You do wonder why they didn't include this stuff in something like Edge of the Abyss. It's a bit haphazard again: that book has a bunch of NPC's wheras this gives more info on, say, the Eldar as a whole. In fact they could easily have fleshed it out some more and given us rules for creating our own Eldar (they are doing something similar with Soul Reaver). Hopefully this Eldar stuff is cross compatible because it would be very useful for everygame; Deathwatch marines can now fight an avatar of Khaine, for instance. I'm guessing the Dark Eldar content was excised for Soul Reaver, which again is a bonkers idea. It could have been included here surely; a write up for he Dark Eldar just the same as the regular Eldar. Again FFG resort to this scattershot approach: there's some DE in the BC rlebook and in OW, and in Soul Reaver (whenever that's released). I wish to god they'd think this all through a bit more.

No HArlequins though, they are in Black Crusade. So it's not a thorough treatment of the Eldar (there's probably a ton more that's missing, even without the Harlequins - I don't recall seeing any Farseer rules).

FFG are a strange company. I really would love for them to explain themselves, but it's not for want ot asking. The beauty of the 40k universe is that it's already there; all FFG has to do is pick up the ball. Oddly enough there is no Kroot section in this book. Ok we have Kroot chargen in Into the Storm, Kroot Warspheres in Battlefleet Koronus, and some Kroot in Edge of the Abyss (that's an extra three books to carry to the game session, better hire a servitor). But there is nothing on them in the race section here. Seems weird. Naturally nothing on Tau, Tyranids nor Necrons for reasons already established.

It's meant to go with all the other pieces.  It does a fantastic job of filling in holes in the overall 40k experience.

As usual, you're saying it's shitty and somehow FFG just isn't doing it good enough.  Yet, it's terminally obvious you can't see the 40k Forest for the D&D Trees.

Meaning you aren't getting the 40k setup because you expect it to be nicely packaged up in self contained volumes.  

It will never be neatly packaged, for reasons already established.  FFG did as good a job as anyone could, and exceeded expectations across the board already.

Quote from: Blackhand;557499It's meant to go with all the other pieces.  It does a fantastic job of filling in holes in the overall 40k experience.

As usual, you're saying it's shitty and somehow FFG just isn't doing it good enough.  Yet, it's terminally obvious you can't see the 40k Forest for the D&D Trees.

Meaning you aren't getting the 40k setup because you expect it to be nicely packaged up in self contained volumes.  

It will never be neatly packaged, for reasons already established.  FFG did as good a job as anyone could, and exceeded expectations across the board already.

You are Christian Petersen and I claim my five pounds.

You can calm yoursel' down buddy boy, I didn't describe it as shitty at all.

I have no idea what a 40k Forest and D&D Trees are. I don't play DnD.

Actually I liked the book. You could use the Death Watch Bestiary also if you lower the power level.

i really need to doublecheck threads before opening them.  i saw RT and thought, "neat!"  

should've noticed that GW started the thread.  would've known that off the bat it would be a bitchfest :rolleyes: :banghead:

Hey, Ghost Whistler! Would you like some cheese with that?

Quote from: Benoist;557511Hey, Ghost Whistler! Would you like some cheese with that?

With what?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557513With what?

With that whine. :D

Quote from: Benoist;557514With that whine. :D

what whine?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557516what whine?

The OP that you claim isn't a pan.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557516what whine?

It does come off as whining even though I don't think you are really. As for the Eldar they MIGHT do something either for Rogue Trader/Black Crusade/Deathwatch but I wouldn't hold my breath given they seem to want the games to be very humancentric.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557501You are Christian Petersen and I claim my five pounds.

What?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557501You can calm yoursel' down buddy boy, I didn't describe it as shitty at all.

Lie.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557501I have no idea what a 40k Forest and D&D Trees are. I don't play DnD.

Explained.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557482(that's an extra three books to carry to the game session, better hire a servitor)

If you had a printer, or a scanner/printer, or even just access to either, you could copy the relevant pages and just take those along. Or print the relevant pages from the .pdf. Or ask a friend with any of that kit to do any of the above.

Or copy the relevant bits into your GM notes.

Quote from: Ladybird;557523If you had a printer, or a scanner/printer, or even just access to either, you could copy the relevant pages and just take those along. Or print the relevant pages from the .pdf. Or ask a friend with any of that kit to do any of the above.

Or copy the relevant bits into your GM notes.

This problem is solved by keeping the books in your gaming area.  Right next to all the miniatures and terrain.

Quote from: Blackhand;557525This problem is solved by keeping the books in your gaming area.  Right next to all the miniatures and terrain.

You are ridiculous.

My gaming area is 10 miles away from me. We don't play in my house, and no, that isn't going to change.

What miniatures and terrain do you think I own? YOu do know I'm referring to the rpg here, right?

Quote from: Ladybird;557523If you had a printer, or a scanner/printer, or even just access to either, you could copy the relevant pages and just take those along. Or print the relevant pages from the .pdf. Or ask a friend with any of that kit to do any of the above.

Or copy the relevant bits into your GM notes.

Which is what I do, for NPC stats and the like. When it's stuff like character creation, or battleship creation, or whatever, and you have stuff spread over several books, then it's not quite so easy.

I think your sorta missing the main reason why these books are often so scattershot  ghosty (which considering your initials is kind of a surprise). Games workshop have to ok what goes into each splatbook for the gamelines which is both why they can take years(like this bestiery) and why your getting random batches of npc's and races spread over a half dozen books(they probably dont want information repeated) just as its also why those races you mentioned are missing, to be honest i'd just cobble together whatever info your missing from your campaign notes via the other gameline splats and reverse engineering the info from the 40k army books9which you can more than likely get for free via a handfull of forae that deal with the wargame) and extrapolating the rest on the fly.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;557534I think your sorta missing the main reason why these books are often so scattershot  ghosty (which considering your initials is kind of a surprise). Games workshop have to ok what goes into each splatbook for the gamelines which is both why they can take years(like this bestiery) and why your getting random batches of npc's and races spread over a half dozen books(they probably dont want information repeated) just as its also why those races you mentioned are missing, to be honest i'd just cobble together whatever info your missing from your campaign notes via the other gameline splats and reverse engineering the info from the 40k army books9which you can more than likely get for free via a handfull of forae that deal with the wargame) and extrapolating the rest on the fly.

I've said this, in as many words, many many times.  He doesn't feel that he should have to look anywhere else for information on 40k.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557532You are ridiculous.

My gaming area is 10 miles away from me. We don't play in my house, and no, that isn't going to change.

What miniatures and terrain do you think I own? YOu do know I'm referring to the rpg here, right?

You know you wouldn't be as mad if you played the miniature game, right?  I've told you that before but you really need to take it to heart.

We don't play in 99% of my club's houses either, but if we didn't play in my own (like most of our members, some of whom travel from other townships 15m away) we'd be sure to have the relevant reference manuals there.  Many players bring their own manuals, but we have everything we need for every game at our gaming area.

You, sir, are ridiculous.

I'd be FFG, I'd consider releasing an Eldar game just to shut GW up.

*ponders*

But then, he'd bitch at every single page of the book, about this or that missing, this or that art piece being cheesy, wondering if FFG have lost their marbles or why in hell they didn't include what he regards as the obligatory enemy or whatnot. That would be a waste of time.

Quote from: Benoist;557539I'd be FFG, I'd consider releasing an Eldar game just to shut GW up.

*ponders*

But then, he'd bitch at every single page of the book, about this or that missing, this or that art piece being cheesy, wondering if FFG have lost their marbles or why in hell they didn't include what he regards as the obligatory enemy or whatnot. That would be a waste of time.

+1:D

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;557534I think your sorta missing the main reason why these books are often so scattershot  ghosty (which considering your initials is kind of a surprise). Games workshop have to ok what goes into each splatbook for the gamelines which is both why they can take years(like this bestiery) and why your getting random batches of npc's and races spread over a half dozen books(they probably dont want information repeated) just as its also why those races you mentioned are missing, to be honest i'd just cobble together whatever info your missing from your campaign notes via the other gameline splats and reverse engineering the info from the 40k army books9which you can more than likely get for free via a handfull of forae that deal with the wargame) and extrapolating the rest on the fly.

I don't really think it's GW at all. That just doesn't make sense. I think it's just poor plotting on FFG's part. It's not like GW arenm't letting them use things like the Eldar, obviously they are. Instead FFG just haphazardly put some Eldar here and some there. GW haven't said they can't use the Kroot - quite the opposite. Instread FFG obviously felt they didn't warrant attention in this book.

Quote from: Blackhand;557535I've said this, in as many words, many many times.  He doesn't feel that he should have to look anywhere else for information on 40k.



You know you wouldn't be as mad if you played the miniature game, right?  I've told you that before but you really need to take it to heart.

We don't play in 99% of my club's houses either, but if we didn't play in my own (like most of our members, some of whom travel from other townships 15m away) we'd be sure to have the relevant reference manuals there.  Many players bring their own manuals, but we have everything we need for every game at our gaming area.

You, sir, are ridiculous.

Why are you bringing up the minis game? it's a completely different product.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557550Why are you bringing up the minis game? it's a completely different product.

That's fucking comical, is what that is.

Quote from: Benoist;557539I'd be FFG, I'd consider releasing an Eldar game just to shut GW up.

*ponders*

But then, he'd bitch at every single page of the book, about this or that missing, this or that art piece being cheesy, wondering if FFG have lost their marbles or why in hell they didn't include what he regards as the obligatory enemy or whatnot. That would be a waste of time.

I'd release the book if I were FFG, but I would do what Mongoose Publishing did to the Traveller grognards.

Matthew Sprange got tired of listening to the endless bitching of canonista on the Citizens of the Imperium forum about the Aslan Alien Suppliment that had just been released, so he had one of the staff artists put a pair of deer antlers on a pic of a Vargr, posted it on the forum, and said that was a preview of what to expect from the upcoming Vargr Alien Suppliment. The canonista went completely apeshit.

I'd keep the name of the Eldar, but I would make them Squats and bring the space dwarves back just to piss off whinging cunts like Ghost Whistler.

Quote from: jeff37923;557623I'd release the book if I were FFG, but I would do what Mongoose Publishing did to the Traveller grognards.

Matthew Sprange got tired of listening to the endless bitching of canonista on the Citizens of the Imperium forum about the Aslan Alien Suppliment that had just been released, so he had one of the staff artists put a pair of deer antlers on a pic of a Vargr, posted it on the forum, and said that was a preview of what to expect from the upcoming Vargr Alien Suppliment. The canonista went completely apeshit.

I'd keep the name of the Eldar, but I would make them Squats and bring the space dwarves back just to piss off whinging cunts like Ghost Whistler.

You should know they did something they said they never would.

They listed Squats as an acceptable variant of abhuman in the new 40k rulebook.

You know what this means.

Quote from: Blackhand;557627You should know they did something they said they never would.

They listed Squats as an acceptable variant of abhuman in the new 40k rulebook.

You know what this means.

I did not know that! ROFLAMO!

That is funny as Hell!

Quote from: jeff37923;557623I'd release the book if I were FFG, but I would do what Mongoose Publishing did to the Traveller grognards.

Matthew Sprange got tired of listening to the endless bitching of canonista on the Citizens of the Imperium forum about the Aslan Alien Supplement that had just been released, so he had one of the staff artists put a pair of deer antlers on a pic of a Vargr, posted it on the forum, and said that was a preview of what to expect from the upcoming Vargr Alien Supplement. The canonista went completely apeshit.

oh man, that's fucking GREAT--i wish i was still lurking at CotI when that happened!  would've been a fun shitstorm to watch.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557550Why are you bringing up the minis game? it's a completely different product.

Set in the same fictional universe. With equally applicable fluff. And with stats and backgrounds for the same types of creatures.

Want some Dark Eldar? Go to Lexicanum, read some fluff, decide what you want them to do in your session, write some stats. FFG's Fun Police will not arrest you for making up some shit you think would be fun.

(If I am ever in charge of a game line, my demo team will totally be called the "Fun Police".)

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557533Which is what I do, for NPC stats and the like. When it's stuff like character creation, or battleship creation, or whatever, and you have stuff spread over several books, then it's not quite so easy.

It's work you only need to do once, though. It's not necessarily hard, just time-consuming.

I'd be kinda surprised if no summary booklets exist for the games. SLA Industries and Shadowrun have a lot of similar player-created support material.

Quote from: Blackhand;557618That's fucking comical, is what that is.

How so?

Quote from: jeff37923;557623I'd keep the name of the Eldar, but I would make them Squats and bring the space dwarves back just to piss off whinging cunts like Ghost Whistler.

I never once whinged about an eldar game. You didn't read what i wrote did you. Again.

Quote from: Blackhand;557627You should know they did something they said they never would.

They listed Squats as an acceptable variant of abhuman in the new 40k rulebook.

You know what this means.

Um, nothing?

Quote from: Ladybird;557666Set in the same fictional universe. With equally applicable fluff. And with stats and backgrounds for the same types of creatures.

Want some Dark Eldar? Go to Lexicanum, read some fluff, decide what you want them to do in your session, write some stats. FFG's Fun Police will not arrest you for making up some shit you think would be fun.

Which is why FFG's approach is all the more inexplicable.

This thread is no better than the fighter/wizard abortion of a thread, thanks GW.:(

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557771Which is why FFG's approach is all the more inexplicable.

You don't have to run everything you write past GW's licensing department.

@Ladybird, your post upthread was awesome advice. If I didn't already do it I suggest everyone pay heed to what he said.

Quote from: Ladybird;557780You don't have to run everything you write past GW's licensing department.

That explains nothing.

Quote from: Marleycat;557773This thread is no better than the fighter/wizard abortion of a thread, thanks GW.:(

How is that my fault? I'm not responsible for other people choosing to behave like trolls. People ought to grow up a bit and learn some self responsibility. Including you.

Quote from: Marleycat;557773This thread is no better than the fighter/wizard abortion of a thread, thanks GW.:(

Nah, we'd need to have something with more substance to it to start the show for real here.

How about: Dark Eldars suck and shouldn't EVER be made into their own game by FFG or anyone, for that matter? That Drizzt bullshit needs to be stopped. That's already bad enough that there are drow and dark elves that could be PCs in D&D (NOT in my games!!ONE!), but in 40K? They have a whole FUCKING faction to themselves, and now, some braindead idiots would want a whole FUCKING GAME dedicated to them?

Fuck that noise man. Fuck these losers. They can go fap on Drizzit: The Goth-Elves-With-Laser-Guns bullshit all they want in the privacy of their own basements. Not in 40K, thank you very much.

Dark Eldar do not have laser guns.

They are also not for playing as PC's in an RPG.  That would be like that one pirate game where you rape throats all day.

Quote from: Benoist;557816Nah, we'd need to have something with more substance to it to start the show for real here.

How about: Dark Eldars suck and shouldn't EVER be made into their own game by FFG or anyone, for that matter? That Drizzt bullshit needs to be stopped. That's already bad enough that there are drow and dark elves that could be PCs in D&D (NOT in my games!!ONE!), but in 40K? They have a whole FUCKING faction to themselves, and now, some braindead idiots would want a whole FUCKING GAME dedicated to them?

Fuck that noise man. Fuck these losers. They can go fap on Drizzit: The Goth-Elves-With-Laser-Guns bullshit all they want in the privacy of their own basements. Not in 40K, thank you very much.

is that you in your avatar pic?

See? Like pouring gasoline over a fire. :D

Quote from: Blackhand;557824Dark Eldar do not have laser guns.

They are also not for playing as PC's in an RPG.  That would be like that one pirate game where you rape throats all day.

Oh dear.

Quote from: Benoist;557827See? Like pouring gasoline over a fire. :D

More trolling, great.

What is it that you hope to achieve?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557829More trolling, great.

What is it that you hope to achieve?

Nothing. It's a fucking joke man. Grow a sense of humour!

Quote from: Benoist;557832Nothing. It's a fucking joke man. Grow a sense of humour!

Oh of course...whatever 'it' means, that is.

So all the constant 'you're a fucking idiot' and so forth. The constant stream of crap that follows everytime I post something now (didn't use to be this way, it's only recently this site has become everything it's railed against). The trolling, as exemplified in this thread by you and the rest of the dogshit merchants, that's all a joke?

You're the fucking idiot if that's what you think. A sad little troll with nothing positive of his own to contribute. At the very least I paid for my copy of this book, put something back into the hobby, whether i like FFG or not is entirely my opinion and my right to express it. You don' like? Well there are two things you can do, you fat faced lazy cunt, you can either a) like it or b) use your brain and put me on your ignore list so you don't have to feel compelled to read what I write (as it obviously hurts you so, poor dear).

But hey, grow a sense of humour - it's just a joke! 'This machine kills fascists' (a political user title if ever I saw one. Don't make me laugh.

Nah, the "you're a fucking idiot" part ain't a joke. I really think you are a fucking idiot. :)

Quote from: Benoist;557834Nah, the "you're a fucking idiot" part ain't a joke. I really think you are a fucking idiot. :)

And yet here you are proving my point, time and again.

You're just a muppet mate, go get a life, either that or die of cancer. I couldn't really care less which it is.

QuoteMy gaming area is 10 miles away from me. We don't play in my house, and no, that isn't going to change.

And FFG is supposed to care about your personal gaming situation, to cater their book design to the fact that you apparently have to crawl those ten miles with your face in a pile of fire ants the entire way, and thus hauling along an extra book or two is a Big.Fucking.Deal?

You sir:

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557532You are ridiculous.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557836And yet here you are proving my point, time and again.

You're just a muppet mate, go get a life, either that or die of cancer. I couldn't really care less which it is.

This is your stock answer when you lose.  The words are just rearranged.

Your opinion sucks.  It's not that you don't have a right to express it, you're just fucking wrong.  You have the wrong idea.  It's almost as if you mean to have that idea, and the rest of us can hardly fucking believe you're this dense.

Which means you must be goading us on purpose.  I for sure feel that way, that's why I'm fucking hostile to you.

Quote from: Spike;557841And FFG is supposed to care about your personal gaming situation, to cater their book design to the fact that you apparently have to crawl those ten miles with your face in a pile of fire ants the entire way, and thus hauling along an extra book or two is a Big.Fucking.Deal?

what on earth are you moaning about?

Quote from: Blackhand;557845This is your stock answer when you lose.  The words are just rearranged.

Your opinion sucks.  It's not that you don't have a right to express it, you're just fucking wrong.  You have the wrong idea.  It's almost as if you mean to have that idea, and the rest of us can hardly fucking believe you're this dense.

Which means you must be goading us on purpose.  I for sure feel that way, that's why I'm fucking hostile to you.

'when i lose'? What do you think I have lost? All this thread has become is a vehicle for idiots to troll.

You have serious issues pal. 'your opinion sucks', actually no it doesn't. It's entirely valid and until you can provide a reason why it isn't it will remain so. Until then continue failing to understand the difference between the minitaure game and the rpg, and continue choosing to take it extremely personally when I dare to criticise anything remotely related to 40k.

you aren't just hostile, you're in need of anger management.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557854what on earth are you moaning about?

I'm sorry, I forgot you were functionally illiterate. You are complaining about a gaming book, the solution to which was to keep your books where you game, at which point you complain about the distance you travel too and from said games.

Which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do at all with the producers of said gaming group, and very little, if anything, to do with the solution to your problem. Since the distance traveled, however, is of such monumental importance to the discussion at hand (that is, the relative worth of humping said books too and from game), one can only assume thereby that each and every inch you travel is already as agonizing and tortuous as humanly possible, thus denying you any possible human endurance required to move a book weighing roughly one, single, pound... which is all it would require for you to transport said book.

None of which, of course, has any relevance upon the fact that the publishers of said book, and the denizens of the internet, have absolutely nothing to do with the gauntlet you must resolutely march weekly for your required gaming  agenda.  The publishers, writers and producers of that which you find necessary for said gaming can not tailor the product to accomodate a gaming lifestyle that is so far beyond the pale that a single gram of weight added to the book that is not of extreme personal relevance to you, Ghost Whistler, is a personal affront of such affrontery that we, the denizens of the internet, must then take up arms and burn the bastards out of hearth and home for the teremity of failing to meet your exacting specifications!

No.

Now, since I am duly notified that you lack the simple reading comprehension to grasp the shorter and more plain version of that delectable diatribe that I have just now set forth, I am duly aware that this new version is merely for the amusement of us web occupants who are forced, time and again, to listen to the pedantic dribblings of a witless buffoon whom, as it happens, seems to believe in gross error that the world does, in fact, revolve around his pecker.

It does not, sir.

Good Day.

Quote

Quote from: Spike;557863I'm sorry, I forgot you were functionally illiterate.

Obviously. As is evident by what can only be described as a coincedental ability to string words together in a way congruent to the use of English.

QuoteYou are complaining about a gaming book, the solution to which was to keep your books where you game, at which point you complain about the distance you travel too and from said games.

I haven't complained about this book at all. You have inferred that out of your own imagination and because you, like the rest of the idiots, didn't actually bother to read what I wrote. Instead, and again, you jump down my throat before actually bothering to read correctly.

Which is ironic given your 'functionally illiterate' comment.

QuoteWhich, of course, has absolutely nothing to do at all with the producers of said gaming group, and very little, if anything, to do with the solution to your problem.

I never claimed it had anything to do with it. I merely stated the simple fact, obviously lost on you, that lugging aroudn lots of heavy books is impractical. Perhaps you have a manservant to do all that for you, or maybe you down a tin of spinach first, I don't know. Nor do I care. Trying to make an issue out of it is ridiculous.

QuoteSince the distance traveled, however, is of such monumental importance to the discussion at hand (that is, the relative worth of humping said books too and from game), one can only assume thereby that each and every inch you travel is already as agonizing and tortuous as humanly possible, thus denying you any possible human endurance required to move a book weighing roughly one, single, pound... which is all it would require for you to transport said book.

Passive aggressive much?

QuoteNow, since I am duly notified that you lack the simple reading comprehension to grasp the shorter and more plain version of that delectable diatribe that I have just now set forth, I am duly aware that this new version is merely for the amusement of us web occupants who are forced, time and again, to listen to the pedantic dribblings of a witless buffoon whom, as it happens, seems to believe in gross error that the world does, in fact, revolve around his pecker.

yes, that's exactly what I said. What a sad life you lead.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557865

QuoteObviously. As is evident by what can only be described as a coincedental ability to string words together in a way congruent to the use of English.

Not at all. Literacy is defined by being able to comprehend the written word, something that continues to elude you at every turn.

QuoteI haven't complained about this book at all. You have inferred that out of your own imagination and because you, like the rest of the idiots, didn't actually bother to read what I wrote. Instead, and again, you jump down my throat before actually bothering to read correctly.

Which is ironic given your 'functionally illiterate' comment.

Tragically, I have read what you wrote far too often for my liking. Your inability to communicate simply concepts is only outmatched by your inability to grasp other simple concepts. Also, you have no more idea what is, or is not, ironic than Alanis Morrisette.  I would pity you if I did not already find you a reprehensible individual with poor personal hygiene and a general lack of common decency.

QuoteI never claimed it had anything to do with it. I merely stated the simple fact, obviously lost on you, that lugging aroudn lots of heavy books is impractical. Perhaps you have a manservant to do all that for you, or maybe you down a tin of spinach first, I don't know. Nor do I care. Trying to make an issue out of it is ridiculous.

If you find lugging around lots of heavy books, then don't do it you spineless shivering blob of suet.  Do not, however, expect the book makers to be particularly saddened by your plight.  If you desire such books, then simply understand, like so many adults do, that you will either have to find some means of overcoming your tragic inability to carry a 1 pound book or do without.  You, and no one else, has made a matter of public record the hurdles you must overcome to simply make use of a game book. You alone are unique in that you must travel too and from games whilst carrying such books, and you alone among all humanity... should I deign to consider you a member of such lofty society... expect others to actually care.

QuotePassive aggressive much?

Oh, not at all. I'm quite actively aggressive you simpering snot.

Quoteyes, that's exactly what I said. What a sad life you lead.

Are you still here?  Ah yes, how silly of me, I forgot your inability to understand what 'Good Day' means.  Run along now and find your mum so you can dictate to her the bitter tears of your impotent rage for my amusement.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;557791That explains nothing.

It explains everything. FFG do not have full control over their 40k product line, because they are merely a licensee; GW has to authorise everything they send to print. They were aware of this when they went into the contracts, so there's no point complaining about it on their behalf, but that's the nature of licensing.

(Ditto their WFRP line, but that's not relevant right now)

So the next time they publish a book that still doesn't have the content you want in it, how about buying a book that does instead? Instead of spending £30 on a stuff that you don't want, spend £6.79 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/1872372740/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used) on stuff you do. Tons of great fluff in the 2e codexes, that's utterly relevant for the RPG because it's the same setting. Hell, someone at your store may even be willing to give you an old copy for free, if you ask nicely.

Quote from: Ladybird;557949Hell, someone at your store may even be willing to give you an old copy for free, if you ask nicely.

Old edition army books / codeci tend to accumulate in a pile in my gaming group, right about the time new versions of that book come out.  I keep one and give the rest away.

Quote from: Ladybird;557949It explains everything. FFG do not have full control over their 40k product line, because they are merely a licensee; GW has to authorise everything they send to print. They were aware of this when they went into the contracts, so there's no point complaining about it on their behalf, but that's the nature of licensing.

(Ditto their WFRP line, but that's not relevant right now)

So the next time they publish a book that still doesn't have the content you want in it, how about buying a book that does instead? Instead of spending £30 on a stuff that you don't want, spend £6.79 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/1872372740/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used) on stuff you do. Tons of great fluff in the 2e codexes, that's utterly relevant for the RPG because it's the same setting. Hell, someone at your store may even be willing to give you an old copy for free, if you ask nicely.

I didn't spend £30 on stuff I don't want at all. Not even remotely close.

Neither of us are party to the license between GW and FFG nor the decisions that are made. We can only speculate, the same as everyone else.

However I simply do not believe that what I regard as questionable planning decisions on the part of FFG are down to GW not letting them do things. The problems are twofold: a lack of proper editing (including playtesting), and a lack of planning. Those are nothing to do with the license.

For example: the decision to scatter info on Xenos like the Eldar/Dark Eldar across different books is just bad planning. It makes no sense to assume that GW licensed that stuff under only those conditions; that they said "you can use the Dark Eldar, but you must put some stuff in the back of Black Crusade, then Only War, and then you may only include Kabalite chargen/more Dark Eldar stuff (possibly including Comorraggh) in a published adventure book."

So that's three at least different disparate books across three different game lines, with all their peculiar compatibility wrinkles, to get something that could have been put in a single source: a big Xeno Bestiary, for example.

And speaking of compatibility wrinkles, the Splinter Rifle stats in Only War list the Toxic effect at 2, where it's 4 in Black Crusade. Now 4 is absurdly high (-40 on your Toughness test to resist) so 2 makes more sense, but the errata for BC doesn't include this change, nor have FFG given any indication it would be. But then their errata is not complete. Again I do not believe that's down to GW.

The point about carrying loads of books is quite relevant because it is a matter of efficiency. Not only is it inefficient for me to carry all of this, but having to cross reference these books between a group of players, for example while creating characters, or a voidship, is messy. If the material was presented more coherently then great. Their adventure books are the same; for example the third RT adventure book features a Craftworld and has a lot of Eldar material that could be used beyond that single adventure. Why not present, say, the ship stats it contains, within Battlefleet Koronus: the starship book for RT. In fact they could have made a more generic vehicle/starship/armoury book. Each game has a lot of equipment and a largely unique Armoury section with stuff other game characters might want, e4specially the RT books, with all the weird unique alien and archaeotech.

So Black Crusade characters can feasibly use Infamy to acquire this stuff,. A centralised handbook or source would make this a lot more efficient instead of bringing the Rogue Trader and at least Into the Storm and Hostile Acquisitions to the table so my heretic players can peruse all the contents to find something they might like to acquire (as Infamy allows them to have a shot at acquiring anything). With players that aren't intrinsically familiar with the setting and it's armoury they are going to need to see what's available first.

Goddamn, you such a bloody fucking git.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;558094However I simply do not believe that what I regard as questionable planning decisions on the part of FFG are down to GW not letting them do things. The problems are twofold: a lack of proper editing (including playtesting), and a lack of planning. Those are nothing to do with the license.

You just don't fucking understand.  Give it up.  

It's not questionable, as most of us fans dig it as exactly what we needed.

You're mad it's not what you wanted, but since from everything you say you don't want it to be even remotely related to 40k.  No matter what anyone says, you just continue to bitch and puff hot air.  That's all you're doing.  Nothing you are saying means anything because it's fucking pointless.

You're never going be able to voice your ridiculous "opinions" without being publicly ridiculed.  They are stupid opinions.

You do not get to say "They are my opinions, they are valid no matter what you say."  They are not.  That reeks of a child that never gets spankings and gets trophies just for participating.

Shut the fuck up, and go away.

Why don't you *edit* ban yourself?  We shouldn't have to put up with your *edit* year after year.  I hate it but I'm contemplating adding you to my ignore list, which contains 0 other folk.  That's how *edit* annoying you are.

Quote from: Blackhand;558135They are stupid opinions.

It's hard to argue against logic like that.

Do you come with batteries?

Now here's the crux of your dissatisfaction with the design of the line, as I have told you before.

The RPG line was made (specifically) for players of the wargame, which shares a market with RPG'rs, whether you like that idea or not.

You do not play or own any (few) wargaming materials.

You do not believe you should purchase such materials.

You do not understand how the product feels incomplete.

Quote from: jeff37923;558099Goddamn, you such a bloody fucking git.

Quotegit (plural gits)

1.(UK, slang, pejorative) A contemptible person.
2.(UK, slang, pejorative) A silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying, or childish person.

A bit over the top but yeah it fits.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;558094For example: the decision to scatter info on Xenos like the Eldar/Dark Eldar across different books is just bad planning.

Did you ever consider, for one second, that it could actually have been planned that way?  

Maybe, to accommodate people who have other information than what you yourself glean from reading the cryptic manuals?

Also, the Dark Eldar that you fight in BC have way more balls than those you fight in say...DH or OW.  That's the game's mechanics.  You'd be bitchin it was weak if it was given at 2 in BC.

Quote from: Blackhand;558149Did you ever consider, for one second, that it could actually have been planned that way?  

Maybe, to accommodate people who have other information than what you yourself glean from reading the cryptic manuals?

Also, the Dark Eldar that you fight in BC have way more balls than those you fight in say...DH or OW.  That's the game's mechanics.  You'd be bitchin it was weak if it was given at 2 in BC.

if you can read my mind so well why are you wasting your own time asking me anything?

Did anyone buy the book already and can give as a first opinon/ review?

Quote from: UnbremsbarerUwe;559107Did anyone buy the book already and can give as a first opinon/ review?

Welcome to the RPG Site, dude. :)

Yeah, gotta get used to this board. :D

Quote from: UnbremsbarerUwe;559107Did anyone buy the book already and can give as a first opinon/ review?

What would you like to know.

Well... content, good entries, bad entries - that kind of things. ;)

The first chapter is a list of monsters in the Koronus Expanse.
The next chapter is stats for Xeno races in the Expanse: Eldar, Orks, Rak'Gol, Stryxis and some Yu'Vath stuff.
The third chapter lists denizens of the warp.
The final chapter is a random monster creation system.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;559525The next chapter is stats for Xeno races in the Expanse: Eldar, Orks, Rak'Gol, Stryxis and some Yu'Vath stuff.

I had so much fun playing the Stryxis fleet in Lure of the Expanse. They were all utterly nuts, but pleasant about it, especially if you hated Eldar too.

"Honoured bipeds! We hate the plastic bipeds. Hates them. HATE."

Quote from: Ladybird;559531I had so much fun playing the Stryxis fleet in Lure of the Expanse. They were all utterly nuts, but pleasant about it, especially if you hated Eldar too.

"Honoured bipeds! We hate the plastic bipeds. Hates them. HATE."

Pretty much all the FFG created fluff is fitting and well produced. The book goes into much more detail about them and their vat grown slaves.

Most of the book is written from the perspective of a Rogue trader's bodyguard as they investigate and encounter all this stuff.

There;s another alien race called the Sslyth that get a few pages but few people seem have given them good feedback. Not a great loss. Serpentine aliens. Nuff said.

I haven't read the book yet, I've been running False Prophets or whatever it's called from the Black Crusade book. Had to change a few things (a lot of things) as the main villain can one shot almost anyone with his Bolt of Change (psyker power). 6d10 if it hits, goes through most armour.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;559534There;s another alien race called the Sslyth that get a few pages but few people seem have given them good feedback. Not a great loss. Serpentine aliens. Nuff said.

I haven't read the book yet, I've been running False Prophets or whatever it's called from the Black Crusade book. Had to change a few things (a lot of things) as the main villain can one shot almost anyone with his Bolt of Change (psyker power). 6d10 if it hits, goes through most armour.

You do know there are models for Sslyth  (http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1LEND_enUS481US481&biw=1920&bih=1075&tbm=isch&tbnid=2nxvMB9_8d5a7M:&imgrefurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp%3FprodId%3Dprod1340010a&docid=LEtNdhKJIEdS8M&imgurl=http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1950171a_99800112013_DESslyth02_873x627.jpg&w=873&h=627&ei=Rj8AUIDWM7SO2QXNoJ2WDg&zoom=1)right?  Probably they don't have a lot of feedback because like everything else the rpg is made to mimic the model rules / fluff.  Not vice versa.

Also, Bolt of Change regularly rips tanks apart in one shot.  That also is from the wargame.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;559534Pretty much all the FFG created fluff is fitting and well produced. The book goes into much more detail about them and their vat grown slaves.

There;s another alien race called the Sslyth that get a few pages but few people seem have given them good feedback. Not a great loss. Serpentine aliens. Nuff said.

I haven't read the book yet, I've been running False Prophets or whatever it's called from the Black Crusade book. Had to change a few things (a lot of things) as the main villain can one shot almost anyone with his Bolt of Change (psyker power). 6d10 if it hits, goes through most armour.

I wouldn't have went the biotech route with them - my Stryxis were scavengers / traders, who had their own alien concepts of value, but were quite hardy (One of them had once shot a plasma pistol at it's own chest and survived, apparently - don't ask me, I wasn't there, it's just what the character said). But, that's my table, not theirs.

Sslyth sound cool, but it's a daft name. I've got a similar concept race in my SWN sector (It's not an original concept, though).

The party had best avoid getting shot by the Bolt of Change. That's a killer weapon.

The bestiary sounds like a cool book, actually.

I can't comment on this specific book, but I will say I agree with Ghost Whistler that the way FFG has handled these properties annoys me. And the description of this book sounds annoying to me in the same way that their past books were.

I, too, cannot stand having the information spread across a bunch of misc books over half a decade (and no, I don't want to make my own stats up that's why I buy books). If FFG were faster, and had some kind of digital tools to help track the info, I would have found it a little more tolerable.

I gave up on ever trying to run their games (I foolishly bought into the first three lines) and will probably end up selling the books off that I did buy if I ever get around to it.

I just do not understand how FFG operate the way they do. Ok, Only War might wel come out in a superior state as a result of this bizarre playtest - but that still means people have paid an extra twenty bucks to them for that to be the case. I cannot get my head around that, but people are happy to fork out for this. Extraordinary.

If they had made more of an effort to explicitly make the books compatible that would be something. I fear the game will end up dying the death of a thousand cuts; lots of little rules quirks (usually errors made in the writing of rules not playtested, such as the fact BC in places still refers to some skills by older names even though that ruleset changes them, or that the stats for the Splinter Rife in BC and OW are slightly different - and, according to FFG, both entries are correct at the time of writing) and inconsistencies will bog it down and drown it. So for example, instead of giving NO rules for vehicles except in INto The Storm, which is the RT players guide, they could point to that book, which itself could have been thus made more generically. Same deal with voidships.

Sadly when the hobby is filled with fanboys and yes men happy enough to pay 20$ for a playtested playtest things are never going to change. I like the games, I'm happy to play them, but that's in spite of these issues - and I haven't played enough for them to become a big deal. I have yet to use vehicles or voidships, for example.

Vehicles were first handled in Dark Heresy Apocrypha.

Just sayin'.

Quote from: jgants;559770I can't comment on this specific book, but I will say I agree with Ghost Whistler that the way FFG has handled these properties annoys me. And the description of this book sounds annoying to me in the same way that their past books were.

I, too, cannot stand having the information spread across a bunch of misc books over half a decade (and no, I don't want to make my own stats up that's why I buy books). If FFG were faster, and had some kind of digital tools to help track the info, I would have found it a little more tolerable.

I gave up on ever trying to run their games (I foolishly bought into the first three lines) and will probably end up selling the books off that I did buy if I ever get around to it.

I like their games but the setup is just like the OWoD and I give up on that after awhile also. So I agree with your sentiment about being far too spread out for no good reason. It breaks my cardinal rule, Marley's rule of 5.

Quote from: Marleycat;560102I like their games but the setup is just like the OWoD and I give up on that after awhile also. So I agree with your sentiment about being far too spread out for no good reason. It breaks my cardinal rule, Marley's rule of 5.

If FFG could publish a nWoD-esque corebook, and supplements to that, it would be ace... but with a setting with the conceptual scope of 40k, choosing what to go in that book is the huge problem.

Nice avatar. Looks familiar, but I just can't place her.

QuoteNice avatar. Looks familiar, but I just can't place her.

Lilly Collins the girl in Mirror, Mirror as Snow White. I like the preversity of it.:)

A NWoD setup would be awesome sauce.

Quote from: Marleycat;560121Lilly Collins the girl in Mirror, Mirror as Snow White. I like the preversity of it.:)

A NWoD setup would be awesome sauce.

Ah. I don't know any of those things; the first thing that came to mind was Karen Gillan (Amy Pond, from Doctor Who), but some of the details are wrong.

Quote from: Marleycat;560102I like their games but the setup is just like the OWoD and I give up on that after awhile also. So I agree with your sentiment about being far too spread out for no good reason. It breaks my cardinal rule, Marley's rule of 5.

Actually there's a good reason it's spread out like that.

Quote from: Blackhand;560188Actually there's a good reason it's spread out like that.

Tell me then. If it's logical I can accept it easily.

Quote from: Marleycat;560202Tell me then. If it's logical I can accept it easily.

I've already explained that many times, and at least once in this thread.

Basically, it works like this:  if you play the wargame, you will enjoy the 40kRP line.  It will fill in gaps, and you'll find there's a lot of overlap.  You'll find you appreciate the integration of games, and the information given in the RPG books is actually a little more than we're used to from the wargames books.  It's icing on the cake.  

On the other hand, if you do not, FFG's efforts seem subpar.  Incomplete for some reason you can't put your finger on.  Everyone has different reasons, but everyone has at least one.  This is because the games were designed with wargamers in mind.  

Therefore:

01 If (You = Warhammer 40,000 Rulebooks + Minis) Then (Enjoy 40KRPG).
02 If (You = No Warhammer 40,000 Rulebooks + Minis) Then (Dislike 40KRPG).
03 Stop

There seems to be little deviation from this formula.  Note that novels are not in the program.  That's GW HQ breakin' all the roolz with their funny eldar stories.

FFG does have to run everything past GW licensing.  However, in their little sectors they can do pretty much whatever they want as long as they don't violate some sacred cows.  Leave that to GW HQ.

Quote from: Blackhand;560300Basically, it works like this:  if you play the wargame, you will enjoy the 40kRP line.  It will fill in gaps, and you'll find there's a lot of overlap.  You'll find you appreciate the integration of games, and the information given in the RPG books is actually a little more than we're used to from the wargames books.  It's icing on the cake.  

Actually, I think you're wrong. The RPG exists for the RPG market, not the tabletop market; note how GW don't actually sell the RPG books themselves anywhere. There's certainly stuff there that a tabletop player would love - Deathwatch, for example, is a love letter to the Space Marines, and Only War probably will be the same for the Guard - but it's not the main market. If GW wanted books in that level of detail for the wargamers, they'd write and publish them themselves (They've done Space Marine fluff books, for example, outside of the novels or codex series).

The 40k games have to be structured as they are because the conceptual scope of the universe is so huge; there's simply too much for a "generic" book like to cover. There are multiple "hooks" to base a game line around, because the game universe was always designed as a huge, mad thing rather than a focussed setting. Contrast to, say, Shadowrun, which has been designed as a playground for groups of corporate mercenaries. A generic 40k book would have to cover the same sort of ground as, say, any Shadowrun corebook (A little bit of everything, with a paragraph telling you that a full book on that thing is possible) but on a scale from hive ganger through Rogue Trader. It's a huge power disparity; the project would simply fall apart due to it's own conceptual weight, and be a disorganised mess.

If you look at 40k as four (Five...) separate game lines, it's not too bad; it's if you want a single, cohesive 40k system that problems creep in, because that isn't what FFG, or Black Library before them, were planning on making.

Quote from: Blackhand;560300I've already explained that many times, and at least once in this thread.

Basically, it works like this:  if you play the wargame, you will enjoy the 40kRP line.  It will fill in gaps, and you'll find there's a lot of overlap.  You'll find you appreciate the integration of games, and the information given in the RPG books is actually a little more than we're used to from the wargames books.  It's icing on the cake.  

On the other hand, if you do not, FFG's efforts seem subpar.  Incomplete for some reason you can't put your finger on.  Everyone has different reasons, but everyone has at least one.  This is because the games were designed with wargamers in mind.  

Therefore:

01 If (You = Warhammer 40,000 Rulebooks + Minis) Then (Enjoy 40KRPG).
02 If (You = No Warhammer 40,000 Rulebooks + Minis) Then (Dislike 40KRPG).
03 Stop

There seems to be little deviation from this formula.  Note that novels are not in the program.  That's GW HQ breakin' all the roolz with their funny eldar stories.

FFG does have to run everything past GW licensing.  However, in their little sectors they can do pretty much whatever they want as long as they don't violate some sacred cows.  Leave that to GW HQ.

Interesting theory I think you're wrong given they target different demographics and a plan like that is bassakwards but whatever.

A far more sensible setup would have to do a NWoD setup ...
1. Base line fully intregrated into .....
2. 4-5 main specific lines with...
3. One offs and custom stuff (Eldar et al.) In shortlines 5 books or less in total run UNLESS sales say print more like CtL for example.

Quote from: Ladybird;560303Actually, I think you're wrong. The RPG exists for the RPG market, not the tabletop market; note how GW don't actually sell the RPG books themselves anywhere.

My local Games Workshop does sell the 40k RPG books, but not the WFRP box sets.

Quote from: Blackhand;560300Incomplete for some reason you can't put your finger on.  Everyone has different reasons, but everyone has at least one.  This is because the games were designed with wargamers in mind.  

I have put my finger on it many times. In response you act like a rabid dog.

The game wasn't designed with wargamers in mind any more than any other game. It might have been designed to appeal to the people that already play the wargame, but that's just obvious marketing. The game system isn't even really the issue (though it's not especially sleek). It's how FFG handle their business. Their continued inexplicable inability to do their job as publishers and editors has nothing to do with the wargame.

Quote from: jadrax;560327My local Games Workshop does sell the 40k RPG books, but not the WFRP box sets.

They aren't on the website, or in our local store. I suspect it's on the discretion of the store manager.

But if you happened to feel like asking him/her about it, I'm sure people would like to know the answer!

Quote from: Ladybird;560303If you look at 40k as four (Five...) separate game lines, it's not too bad; it's if you want a single, cohesive 40k system that problems creep in, because that isn't what FFG, or Black Library before them, were planning on making.

I don't mind them doing separate game lines so long as they are coimpletely cross compatible (which they should be) and that material useful to all (such as vehicle rules) is presented appropriately.

I've been part of three different FFG 40k rpg groups (2 Dark Heresy, 1 Rogue Trader). In all three groups, ranging from 5-12 players, there have been people who played 40k, and people who didn't. In every group, every player who didn't play 40k didn't like the system, every player who did play 40k either liked the system or at least thought it was ok. I think Blackhand is onto something with his theory.

I am not entirely an objective judge, based on my metric ton of 40k figs, or my pretend grognard status (I once owned, but never got to play, the Dark Millenium box set...).

On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure I can understand someone who wants to complain about the setting. I mean, you either know the setting and like it, or you understand that there is about 30 years of history to the setting that you are barely touching the tip of the iceberg on and either enjoy it anyway, or skip it as not worth your time.

Like: I don't really like Judge Dredd, see? So, if I pick up the Mongoose Judge Dredd RPG, I'm not about to go around bitching that the setting is shit.

That's not the fault of the RPG, and after thirty odd years of comics and two shitty movies, its probably not the fault of the setting either.


I think plenty of non-40k fans could enjoy the various RPGs, but they have to be introduced to it, not dropped in among rabid fanbois shouting WWAAGGHH! and shit.  FFG could probably make a stronger statement about being inherently humanocentric as well, but frankly its not terribly important.

Quote from: Brasidas;560370I've been part of three different FFG 40k rpg groups (2 Dark Heresy, 1 Rogue Trader). In all three groups, ranging from 5-12 players, there have been people who played 40k, and people who didn't. In every group, every player who didn't play 40k didn't like the system, every player who did play 40k either liked the system or at least thought it was ok. I think Blackhand is onto something with his theory.

Well, the point of his 'theory' is that 40k rpg'ers that are less than satisfied with everything about it should start playing the wargame. This isn't a particularly helpful or practical suggestion given that it's FUCKSHITTINGLY expensive, and not really that helpful at all.
I think the point is that both games share a rules palette. They have similar stats (afaict). It's a crunchy game and so coming to it from the wargame may soften the blow. Beyond that I can't think of any advantage one might get from playing the wargame unless one is utterly unfamiliar with the setting,w hich is a problem in its own right not solved by spending a lot of money on metal figures that will surely become redundant within a couple of years.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560408Well, the point of his 'theory' is that 40k rpg'ers that are less than satisfied with everything about it should start playing the wargame. This isn't a particularly helpful or practical suggestion given that it's FUCKSHITTINGLY expensive, and not really that helpful at all.
I think the point is that both games share a rules palette. They have similar stats (afaict). It's a crunchy game and so coming to it from the wargame may soften the blow. Beyond that I can't think of any advantage one might get from playing the wargame unless one is utterly unfamiliar with the setting,w hich is a problem in its own right not solved by spending a lot of money on metal figures that will surely become redundant within a couple of years.

The stats are similar, yeah, but that's because the RPG and the current version of the 40k wargame trace their history back to Warhammer Fantasy Battle 2nd edition. They're gone in vastly different directions since then, though.

If you like the wargame, that's an advantage, and that's really the reason to play. Personally, I'd rather just buy a new Dawn of War game every year.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560408Well, the point of his 'theory' is that 40k rpg'ers that are less than satisfied with everything about it should start playing the wargame. This isn't a particularly helpful or practical suggestion given that it's FUCKSHITTINGLY expensive, and not really that helpful at all.
I think the point is that both games share a rules palette. They have similar stats (afaict). It's a crunchy game and so coming to it from the wargame may soften the blow. Beyond that I can't think of any advantage one might get from playing the wargame unless one is utterly unfamiliar with the setting,w hich is a problem in its own right not solved by spending a lot of money on metal figures that will surely become redundant within a couple of years.

Most the time you talk gibberish but in this instance I think I agree with you, god help me.

Or, you know... you could not give a shit and come up with your own stuff, like Pseudo.

Quote from: Benoist;560550Or, you know... you could not give a shit and come up with your own stuff, like Pseudo.

GW can't help it--he's got canon-itis :idunno:

Quote from: Benoist;560550Or, you know... you could not give a shit and come up with your own stuff, like Pseudo.

Or, you know...you could read the discussion you were about to respond to.

Twat.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560625Or, you know...you could read the discussion you were about to respond to.

Twat.

And now you ruin it as usual.  Can't you just ignore people not interested in 40k?

Ben can have fun, it's in the moderator contact.  Read it.

LOL

You guys are killing me.  You're ridiculous.  

Ghost Whistler and Marleycat can disagree with me all they like, it doesn't really matter.  We obviously live in two entirely separate skeins of reality, and I'm ok with that.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560408Well, the point of his 'theory' is that 40k rpg'ers that are less than satisfied with everything about it should start playing the wargame. This isn't a particularly helpful or practical suggestion given that it's FUCKSHITTINGLY expensive, and not really that helpful at all.
I think the point is that both games share a rules palette. They have similar stats (afaict). It's a crunchy game and so coming to it from the wargame may soften the blow. Beyond that I can't think of any advantage one might get from playing the wargame unless one is utterly unfamiliar with the setting,w hich is a problem in its own right not solved by spending a lot of money on metal figures that will surely become redundant within a couple of years.

It's not a theory, and you got it ass backwards anyways.

What I said was you'll get more mileage from the RPG books if you ALREADY play the wargame, you retarded baboon.  You're right, you shouldn't waste any more of your money.  You're going to need all you can get for plastic surgery to cover up your lobotomy scars.

Quote from: Marleycat;560313Interesting theory I think you're wrong given they target different demographics and a plan like that is bassakwards but whatever.

The target demographic for the rpg's are GW's fans.  How can you not see this?

You don't have to agree with me, but I think it's pretentious on your part to simply deny this.  In fact, how can any of you, just by saying that it's an RPG and therefore isn't connected (or somehow shouldn't be) with what has come before.  It does not exist in a vacuum, but you guys seem to believe that it either does, or should.

I've been saying the same thing every time SOMEONE brings this up for the past FIVE YEARS.  Just on this site.  It was the whole reason I joined the site, to let you guys know so you could have more fun with it instead of panning 40kRPG every single time.

It's a pattern.  You guys don't like these books, which I think are beyond awesome.  Each one.  Literally.  It's a pattern.

My theory has been tested for five years.  Look at my posts.

Quote from: Ladybird;560337They aren't on the website, or in our local store. I suspect it's on the discretion of the store manager.

But if you happened to feel like asking him/her about it, I'm sure people would like to know the answer!

Bloody store is shut on Mondays! I got rained on for nothing.

Although I bumped into some people I know who go in their, and they say the person I know got his from people selling them second hand/trading them rather than the shop itself selling them. So I probably misspoke.

They did say that in their experience a lot of people get the FFG books for the background, but they don't know anyone who actually runs it as a game.

Quote from: Blackhand;560655What I said was you'll get more mileage from the RPG books if you ALREADY play the wargame, you retarded baboon.  

Quote from: Blackhand;560300Basically, it works like this:  if you play the wargame, you will enjoy the 40kRP line.  It will fill in gaps, and you'll find there's a lot of overlap.

Obviously the game is designed for 40k fans, and obviously some of those probabnly a lot of them will be GW customers.

That isn't the same thing as saying the game is aimed at GW fans, at all.

Hardcore 40k gamers probably aren't even roleplayers.

Your attitude is a joke.

Quote from: jadrax;560658Bloody store is shut on Mondays! I got rained on for nothing.

Although I bumped into some people I know who go in their, and they say the person I know got his from people selling them second hand/trading them rather than the shop itself selling them. So I probably misspoke.

They did say that in their experience a lot of people get the FFG books for the background, but they don't know anyone who actually runs it as a game.

I don't know any shop locally that sells both the wargame and rpg stuff. Don't know what GW might say about that.

In my neck of the woods, the FLGS carry both.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560662I don't know any shop locally that sells both the wargame and rpg stuff. Don't know what GW might say about that.

There is a new GW store that I have not been to yet, but I can think of at least four local game stores in St. Louis that carry both the miniatures and the rpg line.

As for how many of the wargamers here play the rpg, I'm not sure. Some, but I'm not comfortable saying "most", since I mostly play other miniatures games nowadays, and don't spend a lot of time with the core GW crowd. :shrug:

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560659Your attitude is a joke.

Dear Kettle,

You are black.

Love,

Pot

Regarding stores carrying both lines, I couldn't see GW objecting - someone wanting new 40k figs won't buy an RP book instead, the products aren't in competition that way, and they don't have objections to stores stocking other minis games which are in competition - but a full GW line (Or, heck, any minis line) is a hefty investment for stores to make, which is probably the real reason you don't see both together.

Modern GW don't produce the sorts of books that are in direct competition with the RP books, with only a few exceptions.

GW have no real right to object, nor to tell retailers what to sell, but it won't be the first time they've tried it on with retailers, never mind their own stores.

I'd be very surprised if GW let stores stock the rpg, even though they've advertised it in White Dwarf (which is a good thing imo). No GW store i know of sells the rpg's. They aren't GW product. Black Library stuff, minis, warhammer rules/codices, are.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560625Or, you know...you could read the discussion you were about to respond to.

Why should I bother? All your 40K threads are the same.

*whine whine whine* ... FFG are a bunch of incompetents... *whine whine whine* ... I can't believe they keep publishing this shit... *whine whine whine* ... gimme the Dark Eldar game already bitches... *whine whine whine*

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560625Twat.

Git.

Quote from: Benoist;560772Why should I bother? All your 40K threads are the same.

*whine whine whine* ... FFG are a bunch of incompetents... *whine whine whine* ... I can't believe they keep publishing this shit... *whine whine whine* ... gimme the Dark Eldar game already bitches... *whine whine whine*

So intead of actually reading what I've written, including never actually asking for an Eldar game whatsoever, you decide, again, to continue trolling.

You really are a cunt aren't you. Go die in a house fire.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;560793So intead of actually reading what I've written, including never actually asking for an Eldar game whatsoever, you decide, again, to continue trolling.

You really are a cunt aren't you. Go die in a house fire.

Stay classy now.

Quote from: One Horse Town;560797Stay classy now.

"Stay" classy?

Quote from: Benoist;560799"Stay" classy?

It's a little British thing called sarcasm. ;)

The GW fb page has mentioned the rpg books a few times recently(even posted a mini review of the bestiery last thursday or friday), so im guessing its a case of acknowledging the rpg exists once every now and then so the people who play both will stop asking why they ignore the rpg all the time(afterall at one point black libraries published the rpg)...this doesnt seem to apply to the WFRPG however so my guess is even GW isnt sure wtf that game is supposed to be.  
Im also guessing this may be why some GW stores and retailers are allowed to stock the rpg books instore, though i bet they have to be placed in a corner or out of the way of the miniatures or rulebooks so as to not confuse the 10-15 year olds the wargame is aimed at these days(though considering the prices of the minitures these days i have zero clue why).

Quote from: One Horse Town;560801It's a little British thing called sarcasm. ;)

Ah of course. I should have thought of that, but my Frogland genes betrayed me once again. :D

Quote from: Benoist;560799"Stay" classy?

sing us a birthday song, woodie.