So i'm looking through the book, which admittedly I haven't read so maybe there's more hidden elsewhere, but i can find nothing for npc's/antagonists beyond other humans. There's one npc Eldar Corsair, one Ork Freeboter, one Kroot Mercenary, and a random Warp Daemon. Is this a joke? I though the Koronus Expanse was meant to be dangerous; looks like the Explorers are going to have the easiest time of it at all!
I personally wasn't very satisfied with the Expanse as presented in the book - too many dead worlds, too many undiscovered civilisations. So I made some shit up.
Creatures Anathema from Dark Heresy is a big help here, though bear in mind that RT PCs are a bit more powerful than DH ones so I suggest not holding back on the more powerful creatures in there. I've not seen Ascension yet but I suspect many of the things in that would translate quite well to a Rogue Trader game.
As far as enemy ships go, I've been meaning to work on comparing the provided ship stats to the equivalent stats in Battlefleet Gothic (the space combat system is quite similar to BG, after all), to see if I can't work out some rough conversions for enemy ships.
That said, I've managed to get some quite interesting stuff going pitching the PCs against other Rogue Traders (and against their own horrible corruption...).
I don't have DH, I think i'd like to get it, so I don't know what's cross compatible between the lines. I don't know what's in the DH books. However, I'm also looking through the starshps section and all I'm seeing (apart from an ork ship, a generic pirate raider and a space station) is Imperiuim ships/stuff for the players to build their ship with.
I didn't really expect much from the default setting; I imagine most GM's take it as a broad canvas and just put in their own stuff - and who isn't going to want the players to unwittingly chance upon a Necron tomb in place of actual treasure, or go toe to toe with Dark Eldar reavers? Perhaps I'm missing somethign, but I'm not entirely sure where that leaves prospective gm's like me and their players. Is all this being held back for a subsequent sourcebook? I see no mention of what's coming out, and Lure is just a trilogy of adventures.
DH characters are about 1500 xp behind rogue trader characters Creature Anethema is a good resource for DH or RT you either just pick tougher creatures, more of them or boost the weaker creatures as you see fit. DH Ascension characters start around 15,000xp and are way - way more powerful then RT starting characters and the opponents in Ascension or generally not of the - you turn the corner and bump into a.....
Quote from: Warthur;373519As far as enemy ships go, I've been meaning to work on comparing the provided ship stats to the equivalent stats in Battlefleet Gothic (the space combat system is quite similar to BG, after all), to see if I can't work out some rough conversions for enemy ships.
You haven't had a look at DarkReign? Just saying... take a look at their "Ships of..." files here (http://www.darkreign40k.com/downloads/dark-reign-supplements/5.html) and you'll see that someone has been doing that work already. :)
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373524I don't have DH, I think i'd like to get it, so I don't know what's cross compatible between the lines.
So far as I can tell, monster stats are entirely cross-compatible.
QuoteI don't know what's in the DH books. However, I'm also looking through the starshps section and all I'm seeing (apart from an ork ship, a generic pirate raider and a space station) is Imperiuim ships/stuff for the players to build their ship with.
That does bug me; I suspect they wanted to put more extensive starship stuff in a supplement.
Quote from: kryyst;373536DH characters are about 1500 xp behind rogue trader characters Creature Anethema is a good resource for DH or RT you either just pick tougher creatures, more of them or boost the weaker creatures as you see fit. DH Ascension characters start around 15,000xp and are way - way more powerful then RT starting characters and the opponents in Ascension or generally not of the - you turn the corner and bump into a.....
Yeah, I was thinking about using those as the villains. That said, characters in RT can go up to 34999XP, so they should be able to take on Ascension-level adversaries once they hit mid-level.
Quote from: Windjammer;373542You haven't had a look at DarkReign? Just saying... take a look at their "Ships of..." files here (http://www.darkreign40k.com/downloads/dark-reign-supplements/5.html) and you'll see that someone has been doing that work already. :)
Oh, awesome! My players won't know what hit 'em.
Quote from: Windjammer;373542You haven't had a look at DarkReign? Just saying... take a look at their "Ships of..." files here (http://www.darkreign40k.com/downloads/dark-reign-supplements/5.html) and you'll see that someone has been doing that work already. :)
All in good time.
But it's something of an oversight to not include stuff like this in the actual book surely. I can't help thinking i'm missing something, but surely FFG didn't intend people to either wait for the offical antagonist book for RT, or never have the explorers fight anything but other humans.
Are these conversions based on actual principles? IE is there a method for translating from GW stuff (battefleet gothic) to RT?
Quote from: Warthur;373550So far as I can tell, monster stats are entirely cross-compatible.
That does bug me; I suspect they wanted to put more extensive starship stuff in a supplement.
Ok but if the Creatures Anathema antagonists (anywhere I can find out what's actually in it; whether its more than just daemons) are scaled to DH then won't they be no match for Rogue Trader level dudes?
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373561All in good time.
But it's something of an oversight to not include stuff like this in the actual book surely. I can't help thinking i'm missing something, but surely FFG didn't intend people to either wait for the offical antagonist book for RT, or never have the explorers fight anything but other humans.
Totally agree. It's a classic case of fans supplying material to make the official material into a complete game. Like so much by FFG else these days, they offer teasers and intro games, not full games. That's what they excel at. Even the most vocal fans of Warhammer 3rd complain about how it's the first time a Warhammer RPG core book (boxed set, whatever) can't really cater to campaign-length play.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373561Are these conversions based on actual principles? IE is there a method for translating from GW stuff (battefleet gothic) to RT?
Very good question. I'm afraid I can't answer it. I discovered these files when some of them first went live in autumn, but I've not had a chance to really playtest them to have even a rough evaluation at hand. Hey, I guess you'd be well served by asking the author or the forum the files come from. Myself, I'm not registered at Dark Reign.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373564Ok but if the Creatures Anathema antagonists (anywhere I can find out what's actually in it; whether its more than just daemons) are scaled to DH then won't they be no match for Rogue Trader level dudes?
The creature anathema is filled with far more then deamons. There are alien animal style creatures some more human level types of creatures, eldar/orks, genesteelers and deamon/hybrids as well. It's a good source of enemies especially if you want to flush out random planet A's inhabitants.
Or just have those fooken worm aliens have entire star empires out in the Expanse.
Just one of those buggers is bad ass enough to take on an entire party (sans Laz cannon)... now you can throw armies of them.
WTH kind of complaint is this? DH and RT characters are both pretty squishy. Its not individual power you need its numbers. RT is more a logistics and strategy sort of game.
Quote from: kryyst;373567The creature anathema is filled with far more then deamons. There are alien animal style creatures some more human level types of creatures, eldar/orks, genesteelers and deamon/hybrids as well. It's a good source of enemies especially if you want to flush out random planet A's inhabitants.
Is there any advice on customising your own monsters/daemons etc?
What other DH books are useful for RT, if any?
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373564Ok but if the Creatures Anathema antagonists (anywhere I can find out what's actually in it; whether its more than just daemons) are scaled to DH then won't they be no match for Rogue Trader level dudes?
Absolutely not. Rank 1-4 Rogue Trader characters are more or less equivalent to Rank 5-8 Dark Heresy characters, so the tougher beasties in Creatures Anathema should be plenty challenging for them.
Creatures Anathema has:
- Mutant abominations.
- Products of forbidden technology.
- Predators from death worlds.
- Vermin and parasites.
- Multiple varieties of Eldar and Orks.
- Some minor alien races.
- Genestealers!
- And about 25 pages or so of chaos demons towards the end.
So it's way more than just demons. (Remember, Dark Heresy characters are just as likely to be alien-hunters as demon-slayers.)
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373592Is there any advice on customising your own monsters/daemons etc?
What other DH books are useful for RT, if any?
Creatures Anathema, as well as the monsters, has some pointers on boosting them a bit to create above average enemies. The GM screen has a random alien generator for creating bizarre creatures.
As far as other DH books go, Disciples of the Dark Gods includes several conspiratorial factions which, with a little work, could be great adversaries in a Rogue Trader game (in particular, some of the Xenos-flavoured conspiracies would be fascinating enemies - or valuable trading partners - and might even work better in a RT game than in DH). As mentioned earlier, Ascension deals with challenges for characters of around the same power level as Rank 5-8 Rogue Trader characters, so it might be useful for finding challenges for them (or for generating powerful Imperial NPCs).
I'd buy it all if i had the money, but I don't. :D
Ok, what's in the RT GM kit? And what else makes Lure of the Expanse worthwhile (I know it's new); I don't really want to just buy a book of adventures. I thought initially it was a guidebook, which might have been more useful.
Are there any plans for a sourcebook for ships because that does seem (as others elsehere have said) pretty thin on the ground.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373695I'd buy it all if i had the money, but I don't. :D
Ok, what's in the RT GM kit?
There's a GM screen, which is pretty badass (deploy it with your DH screen for double the space! And look out for the Deathwatch GM kit for TRIPLE SCREENING!), an adventure, a more or less workable star system generator, and a random ship generator.
QuoteAnd what else makes Lure of the Expanse worthwhile (I know it's new); I don't really want to just buy a book of adventures. I thought initially it was a guidebook, which might have been more useful.
I intend to get Lure a) to mine for ship specs and b) for the mini-gazetteer of Footfall (the first major port of call for most Rogue Traders).
QuoteAre there any plans for a sourcebook for ships because that does seem (as others elsehere have said) pretty thin on the ground.
FFG seem to be fairly tight-lipped about future sourcebook plans - I don't think they like announcing them unless they're literally about to go to the printer. Someone on here (One Horse Town) does freelance for them, maybe there's some hints they can slip out from under whatever NDA they're under...
Is there any correlation between tabletop stats and rpg stats? Is the system at all designed to consciously facilitate translation between the two (including Battlefield Gothic), thus meaning if one has the Codex Whatever then one can translate between.
I can't help getting the feeling that FFG's design doesn't intend for explorers to encounter the mainstays of the setting: the iconic Xenos (mainly) for instance.
I'm also not impressed by the fact that Lure, something i would normally have ignored (CA is the same price), has potentially a lot of really god stuff for the Eldar.
I'm not down on the game at all. FFG have superb production values (visually at least) and RT is a big book as it is. But 40k being the enormo-setting it is I think they could have thought out how they intend to portion out the info a little better. I can't be the only one who wants stats for the aliens/ships. I dont' want every single unit described in loving detail, but a basic approach would have been excellent. Rather than just a random Ork ship have a couple of typical ships for each race and rather than just Random Kroot Merc have a couple of peeps for each race: Tau Captain, Kroot Merc, Eldar Farseer, Eldar Crewman, Necron Badass, Ork Nob, Ork Shipboyz, Chaos Leader...you get the idea. Would that have taken up too much space?
Quote from: Spike;373584Or just have those fooken worm aliens have entire star empires out in the Expanse.
Just one of those buggers is bad ass enough to take on an entire party (sans Laz cannon)... now you can throw armies of them.
I love the worm dudes and created worm dogs to go along with them to really keep the party on their toes. It's a fantastic alien race and so truly alien that it's easy to keep your players guessing. They are the carrion crawlers of 40k. Only more organized tougher and with vastly superior technology.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373700Is there any correlation between tabletop stats and rpg stats? Is the system at all designed to consciously facilitate translation between the two (including Battlefield Gothic), thus meaning if one has the Codex Whatever then one can translate between.
DH has no real correlation to the core 40k tabletop game there are some symmetries, but no direct conversion (but I wouldn't be surprised if some clever person on the web has come up with some table). But Battlefleet Gothic in particular is an entirely separate system from 40k anyway so it's even further removed.
But I suggest if space fleet battles, is something you are wanting to do with RH you can download the Battlefleet Gothic rules for free and see for yourself.
Thanks for teh replies. I just bought Creatures Anathema. Looks pretty good.
I think I'd like to buy into the FFG 40k world, but I do have some issues as to how they are doing things. The game isn't (aren't) 40k per se - they are 40k: THe Koronus Expanse, Calixis Sector, or Jericho Reach. Now that's fine and they seem qutie well developed and credible, but the design and the information released is based around what fits into these settings. On top of that each book handles a braod cross section of stuff which means if you want to include stuff you might need different books. For example, there's info on Xenos and Xeno tech and Forbidden Tech in Radicals Handbook - the sort of stuff that might make for interesting treasure. The DH gm kit also seems to include rules for generating Xenos while Rogue Trader core book contains very little.
I would have preferred a more precise categorisation of material - a Xeno book, a Starship book, etc. I wouldn't mind but money is by no means no object.
Still no bloody Necrons.
To be honest, I kind of hope that once Deathwatch comes out FFG starts doing multi-game supplements which can be used equally well in DH, RT, or DW. So, for example, they could do an "Eldar" book which consists mainly of expanded details on Eldar (and perhaps pointers on running an Eldar-based campaign), and then has a chapter on interesting things to do with Eldar in a Dark Heresy game (perhaps with some examples of Eldar-related conspiracies, spy cells, and sympathisers within the Imperium), one on using them in Rogue Trader (complete with trade goods and starship stats), and one on using them in Deathwatch (complete with tactical pointers and cool ways to make things go boom).
I'm very excited about Deathwatch, the quality fo the products impresses me (typos and such aside). But that sort of project is a long way off, and to be honest, they don't erally need to wait. Such books only need an established ruleset and that exists. Eldar are Eldar, for example, regardless of whether they interact with Inquisitors or Rogue Traders.
Quote from: Warthur;373975To be honest, I kind of hope that once Deathwatch comes out FFG starts doing multi-game supplements which can be used equally well in DH, RT, or DW. So, for example, they could do an "Eldar" book which consists mainly of expanded details on Eldar (and perhaps pointers on running an Eldar-based campaign), and then has a chapter on interesting things to do with Eldar in a Dark Heresy game (perhaps with some examples of Eldar-related conspiracies, spy cells, and sympathisers within the Imperium), one on using them in Rogue Trader (complete with trade goods and starship stats), and one on using them in Deathwatch (complete with tactical pointers and cool ways to make things go boom).
This is pure genius. I hope you posted this on the FFG boards and/or dropped them an email. For one, you detail the type of product that's inherently extremely attractive from a customer's POV, and for another, this solves FFG's problem of having 3 distinct RPG lines at hand and not being able to cater for all of them at a steady pace (in terms of supplement stream).
Ascension got touted as being very well suited for RT (as well as for DH), and that may indicate a good start in the direction you suggest.
That said, my impression is that in the long run DH will remain the core line - attracting most fans and publisher attention (in form of supplements) - and that DH and DW are comparatively short-lived experiments with very irregular product support.
Deathwatch doesn't really appeal to me for the most part, but I'm curious to see how the characters in it stack against ascended DH.
I also agree they could be putting out xenos or whatever books at anytime. Eldar are Eldar regardless if you are going after them with DH, RT or DW. The only thing they have to keep in mind is how they present the scope of the enemies. They are perfectly fine putting in a full range of opponents even if they are currently to tough for DH or RT traders to tackle on their own. It just means a GM has to be aware of that and use them in different situations until DW comes out and a blaster will do the trick.
Despite the general complaints I much prefer the isolated approach they took with the 40RPG. I like having focused games and not a huge hodgepodge of classes that wouldn't logically mix together or even be on the same scale. It avoids the joke of a Chaplain an Imperial Guard and an Eldar walk into a bar level of bullshit that I could have scene happening if they just presented 40k: The RPG.
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;373984I'm very excited about Deathwatch, the quality fo the products impresses me (typos and such aside). But that sort of project is a long way off
Actually, Deathwatch is scheduled for August 2010...
Quote from: Windjammer;373993This is pure genius. I hope you posted this on the FFG boards and/or dropped them an email. For one, you detail the type of product that's inherently extremely attractive from a customer's POV, and for another, this solves FFG's problem of having 3 distinct RPG lines at hand and not being able to cater for all of them at a steady pace (in terms of supplement stream). Ascension got touted as being very well suited for RT (as well as for DH), and that may indicate a good start in the direction you suggest.
I think the idea has been raised there by other people. I suspect, in fact, it's something FFG have hit on themselves - it would explain a lot about Ascension, it would explain why Deathwatch is coming out so soon after Rogue Trader.
I suspect what may happen, if they don't take this route, is that they'll do supplements which are primarily aimed at one line but include bits and pieces that are useful in the others.
Quote from: Windjammer;373993This is pure genius. I hope you posted this on the FFG boards and/or dropped them an email. For one, you detail the type of product that's inherently extremely attractive from a customer's POV, and for another, this solves FFG's problem of having 3 distinct RPG lines at hand and not being able to cater for all of them at a steady pace (in terms of supplement stream). Ascension got touted as being very well suited for RT (as well as for DH), and that may indicate a good start in the direction you suggest.
That said, my impression is that in the long run DH will remain the core line - attracting most fans and publisher attention (in form of supplements) - and that DH and DW are comparatively short-lived experiments with very irregular product support.
how is ascension suited for RT? I had a brief look at it today but didn't bother as I don't have DH. Radicals book has some interesting stuff on xenos/tek/dark powers etc.
Quote from: Warthur;374011Actually, Deathwatch is scheduled for August 2010...
I know, but it will probably be delayed like RT and even then they will have to establish the line first before doing 'multi-supllements'.
It's entirely possible GW had prohibited FFG from such things as facilitating pc Eldar.
My problem is that information is portioned out across the two/potentially three lines; stuff that's useful for Explorers can be found in Inquisitor books, and doubtless vice versa. On top of that everything is filtered through the FFG-created setting lens. For example, the section on Death Worlds in CA is really just a bunch of death worlds from Calixis - as opposed to stuff that allows the GM to create their own Death Worlds (which, lets face it, can be as diverse as anything).
This is all fine as far as it goes, but it's definitely not how I would have done things. The Eldar info in Lure is really about 6 pages long. It's probably really good, but I can't justify paying for the whole book just for that, which is all I'm interested in. I'm sure the adventures are great. I shouldn't say this, and obviously I do not endorse it, but it would be much easier to download Lure and cut the Eldar stuff from it, print it out and delete the remainder.
But, in the immortal words of the Spacing Guild: I was not here, I did not say this.