Quote from: The Worid;352547The OGL, the "indie" movement, and the OSR spring to mind.

I agree with you about the OGL.  It had a huge impact on gaming throughout the 'noughts'.

I pretty much missed the "indie" movement entirely, and so have no idea as to its significance.

As for the OSR, I think that it is still too early to tell.  It certainly had a great impact on my gaming, and it's great to see games like Labyrinth Lord and Swords & Wizardry in game shops.  I've appreciated the OSR magazines Knockspell and Fight On! far more than I've enjoyed any professional game products over the past few years.  Nonetheless, I think that we need to wait a couple more years to see if the OSR has legs.  Obviously, I hope that it does!  

Quote from: The Shaman;352552The passing of Gary Gygax, Bob Bledsaw, and Dave Arneson.

Yes I agree with this.

Quote from: RPGPundit;352663There are far more people in the gaming world today who could say that about Bledsaw, Crossby, or Arneson (excepting his half-credit for the original D&D) than about Erick Wujcik.

RPGPundit

That doesn't tell me a thing, Pundit.  Just tells me that you know who he is and I don't.  See, here's the thing: other than bits of trivia forced on me by people, I don't know jack about anyone in the "industry", other than Gygax and Arneson - Gary because he towered over the whole of the hobby for decades, and Dave because, well, frankly, I saw Dave on a semi-regular basis at local cons and comic shops (he resided in the Orlando area prior to his passing).  It's rather like someone who has no interest in baseball: they can tell you they know who Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth are, but you'd get a blank stare if you asked them if they knew what Fernando Valenzuela's stats for the 1982 season were.

And I'm afraid that for me, Mr. Wujick falls into that latter category.  But, speaking just for myself, that's a good thing.  One of my new years resolutions is to give up on the various cults of personalities on the web and off, caring less about "who shot John" (to paraphrase my dad), and focusing on my gaming table, and my gaming works.

With all of that said, I meant and I mean no slight to Mr. Wujick's body of work.  Just that I don't know who he is and I don't think I ever played or read anything by him, likewise my gaming circle.  We're just some 40+ beardos who like going in to dungeons, hauling out loot, and stamping out evil.

Quote from: RPGPundit;352663There are far more people in the gaming world today who could say that about Bledsaw, Crossby, or Arneson (excepting his half-credit for the original D&D) than about Erick Wujcik.

RPGPundit

I played a ton of his Palladium material and I have to say I always liked it the best.

Quote from: rezinzar;352630Wrong. The clue there is the leading "0". Was 1990 part of the 1980s? Or "the eighties" if you prefer?

Right.

Yes, technically speaking, a decade (i.e., ten years) "should" probably start at xxx1, not xxx0 - perhaps*, anyway - but when a term like "the 00s" or the "the thirties" or the like is used, it's disingenuous to try that one on, or give the appearance of doing so, whichever.


* Also: .

A decade is 10 years. The first year was indeed 1. So the first decade was 1AD to 10AD. That means this decade goes through this year.

I think America never adopted the metric system because a lot of us have a hard time excepting that 10 is the end of the count, not the beginning.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;352668With all of that said, I meant and I mean no slight to Mr. Wujick's body of work.  Just that I don't know who he is and I don't think I ever played or read anything by him, likewise my gaming circle.  We're just some 40+ beardos who like going in to dungeons, hauling out loot, and stamping out evil.

Hrrrmm?... I can remember playing in an Amber diceless Cyberpunks game way back in the late 80's in Denver. If it helps, the entire body of White Wolf Vampire and WoD game mechanics were inspired by the Amber diceless roleplaying system. Palladium Books of course, stands out as one of the original Independent RPG game studios offering the RIFTS line, as well as generic supplements that could easily be adapted to almost any RPG.

One of my all-time favorites, Palladium published the Grimtooth's Trap series in 1983?,  which not only described a plentitude of particularly devious dungeon traps, it also included illustrations of how the traps worked, enabling GM's to easily adjudicate player character actions and trap disarming attempts. That should be of some interest for you Megadungeon GMs.  

If anyone has Kevin's e-mail addy, they should get ahold of him, The Palladium Books website homepage loaded extremely slow (+5minutes) this morning and I couldn't load the ordering page and the 2010 Palladium State of Palladium address at all (My browser timed out trying to load the pages)

Quote from: Cranewings;352676A decade is 10 years. The first year was indeed 1. So the first decade was 1AD to 10AD. That means this decade goes through this year.

When using language, common ground and - most of all - communication trumps absolute accuracy. Every. Time.

Honestly, who thinks of the 60s as 1961-1970? I mean, really. I'm sure there are a number of students, and maybe some teachers and professors too, who insist on doing so. A few others who think they are still there, as well...? But other than them, not so much.

The 60s means "nineteen-sixty-something", to just about anyone who has adopted or accepted the same basic calendar type in the first place, and who can count, or be aware of the differences between numbers, at least.

English (for example) in common usage, is a hell of a mess, as it is. So much "wrong" with how we use it. All the time. And who cares? Again, just those few, perhaps...

Quote from: The Worid;352624Are you implying that a year ending with "10" can be part of the "'00s"? Is 1980 the last year of the '70s?

Yes, it is.  It is the last year of the 8th decade of the 20th century.  "1980" is the marker that signifies the end, not the beginning, of a decade by definition.

QuoteDecades are defined by the tens digit; and yes I realize that other units of time aren't treated like that. Don't blame me.

It's lazy thinking, and ought to be stopped because this can fuck things up for folks--like me, a historian--that deal in records; digging through parts of China's history gets damned aggravating due to errant numeracy like this.

QuoteMore importantly, I would rather not have this argument. It really has nothing to do with the question, and is a waste of time for all of those involved.

Then fix your thinking and we'll all be better for it.

And for anyone (other than the two so far) who wishes to get snotty about all this, here are some *more* links for ya:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=19999&dict=CALD
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/decade
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/decade

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;352681Yes, it is.  It is the last year of the 8th decade of the 20th century.  "1980" is the marker that signifies the end, not the beginning, of a decade by definition.

It's lazy thinking, and ought to be stopped because this can fuck things up for folks--like me, a historian--that deal in records; digging through parts of China's history gets damned aggravating due to errant numeracy like this.

Then fix your thinking and we'll all be better for it.

But I think part of the job of a historian is to understand what people mean when they say a decade. I agree it is technically true that a decade is a period from 1-10 years and that means, technically, 1980 signifies the end of the 70s, it is also true that most people don't communicate this way. When a person says the 70s, my impression is they really mean the period between 1970-1979. At the end of the day, I believe what matters is how people use language. if your goal is to understand them and communicate. I do sympathize, since I studied history myself. But I also think it is important to understand language doesn't always operate under the rules we establish for it. It can be terribly illogical at times (though there is some logic behind not wanting to include 1980 in the the 1970s). By the same token, it is important to understand how any given field deals with terms like this. If you are reading a history book, you should expect a decade to end on the 10 (in most cases).

Quote from: BedrockBrendanBut I think part of the job of a historian is to understand what people mean when they say a decade

The common idiot rabble have no say in history!

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;352681Yes, it is.  It is the last year of the 8th decade of the 20th century.  "1980" is the marker that signifies the end, not the beginning, of a decade by definition.

1980 may well be the last year of the 8th decade of the century. But it's not part of the (19)70s. By definition.

He's only wrong if he states that the 7th decade is precisely the same as the '70's. Decade may refer to the nth decade, but it also refers to an arbitrary span of 10 years. You're insisting everyone should use the same dictionary entry just because it is the one used in a certain scholarly context.

EDIT: Indeed, I just look at merriam-webster, and the nth decade definition isn't even one of the bullet points.

Some historians need to stop being cunts. The "naughties" were 2000-2009.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;352699Some historians need to stop being cunts. The "naughties" were 2000-2009.

RPGPundit

Stop. It's far too early in the year for me to agree with you. It will fuck up my quota.

P.S. Ur fat.

Hmmm, wasn't this a thread about, you know, RPGs? Who cares when a decade starts or ends.

I can't say anything which hasn't already been said. The events of the decade for me are D&D3, D20/OGL, the reboot (and decline) of the World of Darkness, and the general recession of RPGs.

Oh, and the demise of Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;352681It's lazy thinking, and ought to be stopped because this can fuck things up for folks--like me, a historian--that deal in records; digging through parts of China's history gets damned aggravating due to errant numeracy like this.

:rolleyes:

You know, I'm a professional geologist, and among our benighted lot we have a stock response for when non-geologists use our discipline-specific jargon loosely.  We purse our lips, look them straight in the eye, nod our heads while mentally translating what they really meant to say, then get right on with things.  Because, really, no one outside our field of study and practice gives a shit about the specifics.

To my eye, the Aughties/Naughties seemed to have been characterised by a conflict between the compulsion to move forward and the desire to re-embrace the past.

Wait.  Are we talking about games here?

!i!