So I'm thinking of what I'm going to run after Traveller; and I'm almost certain now that I'm finally going to try to implement the historical western campaign I've always wanted to run.
What sort of resources do you know of that I could look at for this?
In particular I'd be interested in (in order of priority):
-maps of the area around Dodge City as it would have been in the 1870s.
-maps of the area around Tombstone as it would have been around 1880.
-City maps of either of those cities.
-City/town maps of other western towns.
-listings of bounties/wanted posters
-Any other historical material that would be interesting for this kind of campaign.
I'm not really interested in any fantasy/supernatural stuff, because this is going to be a historical campaign. Though if you know of something from a game like Deadlands that would be interesting for something not fantasy-related, that would be fine too.
If you can find them these (https://www.librarything.com/series/Time-Life%3A+The+Old+West)
Quote from: RPGPundit;867117So I'm thinking of what I'm going to run after Traveller; and I'm almost certain now that I'm finally going to try to implement the historical western campaign I've always wanted to run.
What sort of resources do you know of that I could look at for this?
In particular I'd be interested in (in order of priority):
-maps of the area around Dodge City as it would have been in the 1870s. [The Internet]
-maps of the area around Tombstone as it would have been around 1880. [The Internet]
-City maps of either of those cities. [The Internet]
-City/town maps of other western towns. [The Internet]
-listings of bounties/wanted posters
-Any other historical material that would be interesting for this kind of campaign. [The Internet]
Does Uruguay have an Internet?
Seriously, most of this sort of historical stuff is freely and/or easily available with minimal searching on the Internet. I've used that extensively for my campaign set in 1624 Europe. The volume of material around that period is amazing. Something so recent and with even greater access to printed material, you should have no trouble finding stuff. A minute or two of searching turned up...
An 1887 Map of Dodge City (http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/56638/Dodge+City/Kansas+State+Atlas+1887/Kansas/)
An 1888 Fire Insurance map of Tombstone (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/Tombstone_fire_insurance_map_1888.jpg)
A nice county map of Kansas (http://kancoll.org/graphics/maps/kansc4.jpg). I don't think the counties have changed since the 1870s.
A Plains Indian Campaigns map, 1867-1875 (http://www.ksheritage.org/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KHS&Product_Code=232&Category_Code=PM)
I found most of those you linked to. But having a community of gamers, many of whom already know the location of stuff from games they too have run, is a short cut compared to scouring Google. You might want to try it sometime.
Incidentally, the Kansas county map is not usable for the 1870s, pretty much none of the counties west of Dodge existed at that time.
Quote from: RPGPundit;867738I found most of those you linked to. But having a community of gamers, many of whom already know the location of stuff from games they too have run, is a short cut compared to scouring Google. You might want to try it sometime.
I'm running a semi-historical game in 1624 France. Where else do you suggest I look?
QuoteIncidentally, the Kansas county map is not usable for the 1870s, pretty much none of the counties west of Dodge existed at that time.
It was an example, not a setting book. Ford County, where Dodge City is located, was established in 1867. If I was interested in running that period I would spend more than five minutes searching for a period map. Looking at any of the relevant counties in detail would have turned up the Establishment date revealing the issue or one could just look at a county list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_Kansas) for an overall survey.
Quote from: Ronin;867151If you can find them these (https://www.librarything.com/series/Time-Life%3A+The+Old+West)
I've got those in the bookcase next to my desk. Pretty good immersion into the atmosphere of the era and deflate a lot of myths.
Happily I'm also a day trip away from some cool ghost towns and museums.
Quote from: Bren;867744I'm running a semi-historical game in 1624 France. Where else do you suggest I look?
I'd suggest you start a thread asking people about it.
GURPS Old West (http://www.warehouse23.com/products/gurps-classic-old-west) is outstanding. Includes maps and a timeline. Very thorough IMHO without being too hefty.
I made a 4th Edition Old West Character (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_lJhbSwBglnfjBZZ1laMjdkUFoyWm9pVzFDODJxejZES2N1NDFEeWhFdVVoMks1QkQtdzA) for public use with a back story. Feel free to wrangle him into your adventures however you fancy pardner.
Pundit,
You mentioned both Dodge City and Tombstone. They are anywhere from 800 to 1,000 miles apart. Have you thought about how your players will get from one to the other?
1880 is around 7 or 8 years prior to the Earps, and those years were full of changes. In 1880, the AT&SF railroad stopped at Raton (then called Willow Spring or Otero, the name change occurring in 1880). From there to Santa Fe was by horse and wagon.
There was a railroad being built down the Rio Grande from Santa Fe to El Paso, but I am not sure when that was completed. The take-off point from El Camino Real would be Las Cruces and to Tombstone then was entirely by horse. You would be skirting the Mimbreno and Chiricahua lands, so dangerous country.
Here is a link to the history of railroads in New Mexico.
http://abclibrary.org/c.php?g=19363&p=2130078
Quote from: trechriron;868149GURPS Old West (http://www.warehouse23.com/products/gurps-classic-old-west) is outstanding. Includes maps and a timeline. Very thorough IMHO without being too hefty.
I made a 4th Edition Old West Character (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_lJhbSwBglnfjBZZ1laMjdkUFoyWm9pVzFDODJxejZES2N1NDFEeWhFdVVoMks1QkQtdzA) for public use with a back story. Feel free to wrangle him into your adventures however you fancy pardner.
Yeah, I've got Old West and its a great book. Like so many of the 3e GURPS books were.
Quote from: BillDowns;868268Pundit,
You mentioned both Dodge City and Tombstone. They are anywhere from 800 to 1,000 miles apart. Have you thought about how your players will get from one to the other?
The campaign will start around Dodge, and will eventually move to Tombstone, probably when the Earps do. At least assuming that's how the Players make it go.
Quote1880 is around 7 or 8 years prior to the Earps, and those years were full of changes. In 1880, the AT&SF railroad stopped at Raton (then called Willow Spring or Otero, the name change occurring in 1880). From there to Santa Fe was by horse and wagon.
You've got your dates all wrong. Did you mean to say 1870?
The OK Corral was in 1881.
The campaign will probably start in 1876. The Santa Fe railroad reaches Santa Fe in 1880.
What is the incentive to move from the relative comfort of Dodge out to the less hospitable Tombstone?
Also. Why not pick a less well known town as the locale where the PCs can act without history looming over their shoulder? Aside from a harder time finding viable maps.
Here is the Colorado Historical Newspaper Collection Archive which has been scanned and digitized for your convenience, weighing in at some 690,000+ pages. These newspaper archives begin in 1859 while Colorado was still a territory, some eighteen years before Colorado was actually admitted to the Union in 1876.
https://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/
You can download PDFs of these newspapers!
April 23rd, 1859 issue of the Rocky Mountain News Weekly has a Masonic Lodge advertisement in it on page 2.... There is also an article about the Colorado Gold Rush, and Indians, of course...
Wow... also includes a map of the Colorado Gold Region with Pony Express mail routes!
With County Election results around Auraria (Aurora) and Cherry Creek up near Denver.
July 9th edition, more compliants about Ute Indians ambushing prospectors, an article about a steamship that was transported overland to Minnesota from the Red River opening up settlement in the Northern Rockies, News on the Austria-Italian War in Europe and an account of the Battle of Montebello, News about a railroad accident, and a spot price list of dry goods available in Denver;
Flour, States, .... .... $14 @ 16 per 100lbs.
Flour, Mexican, .... .... $14 @ 15 "
Corn Meal, .... .... $14 "
Bacon, sides and ham 35 cents per lb.
Sugar, .... .... $20 @ 25 "
Coffee, .... .... $14 "
Sa'aratus, .... .... $35 "
Salt, .... .... $15 "
Beans, .... .... $15 "
Onions, .... .... $25 "
Potatoes, .... .... $25 "
Rice, .... .... $25 "
Butter, .... .... $73 "
Cheese, .... .... $50 "
Lard, .... .... $50 "
Crackers, .... .... $25 "
Bread, .... .... $15 "
Fresh Beef, .... .... $12 @15 "
Venison .... .... .... .. $1 per Quarter
Milk .... .... .... .... 10 cents per quart
Molasses.... .... .... $2.50 per Gallon
Whiskey ...... ...... $3.00 " "
Lumber $100 per 1000 feet.
Nails $25 per 100 bs.
Glass $16 per Box
Quote from: Omega;868505What is the incentive to move from the relative comfort of Dodge out to the less hospitable Tombstone?
Exactly the same one Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday had: Dodge was starting to run out of opportunities and become too settled, and Tombstone was a boom-town.
QuoteAlso. Why not pick a less well known town as the locale where the PCs can act without history looming over their shoulder? Aside from a harder time finding viable maps.
Because I'm really, really fucking good at running historical campaigns. Running a Wild-West campaign and not having it be in the most important places of the setting would be like running a Dark Albion campaign set only in Devon. You can do it, it might even be pretty interesting if done right, but you're going to miss out on almost all of the most famous and memorable moments that defined the age.
Quote from: GameDaddy;868635Here is the Colorado Historical Newspaper Collection Archive which has been scanned and digitized for your convenience, weighing in at some 690,000+ pages. These newspaper archives begin in 1859 while Colorado was still a territory, some eighteen years before Colorado was actually admitted to the Union in 1876.
https://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/
You can download PDFs of these newspapers!
April 23rd, 1859 issue of the Rocky Mountain News Weekly has a Masonic Lodge advertisement in it on page 2.... There is also an article about the Colorado Gold Rush, and Indians, of course...
Wow... also includes a map of the Colorado Gold Region with Pony Express mail routes!
With County Election results around Auraria (Aurora) and Cherry Creek up near Denver.
July 9th edition, more compliants about Ute Indians ambushing prospectors, an article about a steamship that was transported overland to Minnesota from the Red River opening up settlement in the Northern Rockies, News on the Austria-Italian War in Europe and an account of the Battle of Montebello, News about a railroad accident, and a spot price list of dry goods available in Denver;
Flour, States, .... .... $14 @ 16 per 100lbs.
Flour, Mexican, .... .... $14 @ 15 "
Corn Meal, .... .... $14 "
Bacon, sides and ham 35 cents per lb.
Sugar, .... .... $20 @ 25 "
Coffee, .... .... $14 "
Sa'aratus, .... .... $35 "
Salt, .... .... $15 "
Beans, .... .... $15 "
Onions, .... .... $25 "
Potatoes, .... .... $25 "
Rice, .... .... $25 "
Butter, .... .... $73 "
Cheese, .... .... $50 "
Lard, .... .... $50 "
Crackers, .... .... $25 "
Bread, .... .... $15 "
Fresh Beef, .... .... $12 @15 "
Venison .... .... .... .. $1 per Quarter
Milk .... .... .... .... 10 cents per quart
Molasses.... .... .... $2.50 per Gallon
Whiskey ...... ...... $3.00 " "
Lumber $100 per 1000 feet.
Nails $25 per 100 bs.
Glass $16 per Box
Holy fuck! This is amazing! Thanks.
Quote from: RPGPundit;868980Exactly the same one Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday had: Dodge was starting to run out of opportunities and become too settled, and Tombstone was a boom-town.
Because I'm really, really fucking good at running historical campaigns. Running a Wild-West campaign and not having it be in the most important places of the setting would be like running a Dark Albion campaign set only in Devon. You can do it, it might even be pretty interesting if done right, but you're going to miss out on almost all of the most famous and memorable moments that defined the age.
1: Install a respawn point...
2: That is good. I got tired of historical location themed games where it ended up with we could have been in Australia for all the location and people mattered. If you can pull it off then go for it.
Time / Life books had a pretty good series of Wild West books that turn up in used book stores from time to time.
Quote from: David Johansen;869379Time / Life books had a pretty good series of Wild West books that turn up in used book stores from time to time.
There was a documentary on History or Discovery, before they stopped being about, which was on the history and daily lives of a western town which ended with the town burning down due to some kid playing with fire of I recall correctly.
Sadly cant find it now.
Quote from: Omega;8693661: Install a respawn point...
2: That is good. I got tired of historical location themed games where it ended up with we could have been in Australia for all the location and people mattered. If you can pull it off then go for it.
I've pulled it off in several other historical campaigns. Don't see why I shouldn't be able to here.
Quote from: GameDaddy;868635Here is the Colorado Historical Newspaper Collection Archive which has been scanned and digitized for your convenience, weighing in at some 690,000+ pages. These newspaper archives begin in 1859 while Colorado was still a territory, some eighteen years before Colorado was actually admitted to the Union in 1876.
https://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/
You can download PDFs of these newspapers!
That is an awesome resource. Now I want to play Boot Hill.