TheRPGSite

Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Narf the Mouse on March 02, 2010, 05:03:37 PM

Title: Relative worths
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 02, 2010, 05:03:37 PM
I'm thinking of throwing in a curveball in my game and adding Aluminum Pieces - Does anyone know the relative, average worth of aluminum versus platinum, historically?
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Werekoala on March 02, 2010, 05:05:37 PM
I know that in the 1800-somethingorothers Aluminium was so new and valuable that they plated to capstone of the Washington Monument with it.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: David Johansen on March 02, 2010, 05:08:48 PM
They did that in Rolemaster's Treasure companion...

Well...they did...I can look up the information if you want.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 02, 2010, 05:28:09 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;364131They did that in Rolemaster's Treasure companion...

Well...they did...I can look up the information if you want.
If it's historically (Relatively, of course - Things vary) accurate, then sure, thanks.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 02, 2010, 05:29:03 PM
Werekoala gets to the heart of it -- it's largely dependent upon rarity, modified significantly by utility and aesthetics.  Historically, pure aluminum was unknown -- alum salts were, but the refined metal wasn't isolated until the 19th century -- so there's no real grounds for comparison against platinum, gold, or silver.  I can't think of any "native" deposits of aluminum -- only ores that require rather technically difficult refinement.

Your mention of aluminum coinage reminded me of the Gloranthan "bolg", a lead coin valued by trolls, but considered virtually worthless by almost everyone else.  Now there's a metal that's found in native form.

!i!
Title: Relative worths
Post by: flyingmice on March 02, 2010, 05:32:44 PM
Aluminum is very easy to refine - given electricity. Without electricity, you have to have to undergo a long, tedious, process using mercury, which is very toxic, to refine it from bauxite. So, Aluminum is very expensive, until it suddenly becomes cheap.

-clash
Title: Relative worths
Post by: David Johansen on March 02, 2010, 05:37:09 PM
Unless you're playing GURPS.  Then it's just a simple Create Earth spell away.  With Measurement and Shape Earth your wizard can have alluminum platemail in about half an hour.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: RPGPundit on March 02, 2010, 06:15:18 PM
Quote from: flyingmice;364146Aluminum is very easy to refine - given electricity. Without electricity, you have to have to undergo a long, tedious, process using mercury, which is very toxic, to refine it from bauxite. So, Aluminum is very expensive, until it suddenly becomes cheap.

-clash

So what you're saying is that you've found an Industrial use for the Shocking Grasp and Lightning Bolt spells?

In that case, the answer to the OP would be that Aluminum pieces, generally only able to be made by magic, would likely be VERY valuable, relatively speaking.

RPGPundit
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 02, 2010, 06:23:50 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;364156So what you're saying is that you've found an Industrial use for the Shocking Grasp and Lightning Bolt spells?
In the repertoire of a very inquisitive and enterprising alchemist, that sounds very good.  I like it a lot, in fact.
QuoteIn that case, the answer to the OP would be that Aluminum pieces, generally only able to be made by magic, would likely be VERY valuable, relatively speaking.
Returning to Glorantha, aluminum is one of the magic metals that can be imbued with powerful magic, and is therefore very valuable.  I think all of the native deposits are bones of dead gods, though, so there's another optional source.

!i!
Title: Relative worths
Post by: flyingmice on March 02, 2010, 06:42:55 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;364156So what you're saying is that you've found an Industrial use for the Shocking Grasp and Lightning Bolt spells?

In that case, the answer to the OP would be that Aluminum pieces, generally only able to be made by magic, would likely be VERY valuable, relatively speaking.

RPGPundit

Yes, but I don't know the setting's magic system, if it has one.

-clash
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 02, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
No default setting, but it's "D&D-style". So the "setting" is less historical and more histerical.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Xanther on March 03, 2010, 03:46:46 PM
It takes a lot of electricity to refine aluminum.  More than a spell is likely to provide.  Then you need to not just zap it but use the electricity to create a gradient to separate the stuff.  Is magical electricity AC or DC?  I could see some elaborate circut or battery to capture the magical electricity and an assembly line of wizards to power the contraption. :)
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Nicephorus on March 03, 2010, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: Xanther;364365It takes a lot of electricity to refine aluminum. More than a spell is likely to provide. Then you need to not just zap it but use the electricity to create a gradient to separate the stuff. Is magical electricity AC or DC? I could see some elaborate circut or battery to capture the magical electricity and an assembly line of wizards to power the contraption. :)

Slight highjack, but I've noticed that most spells are combat oriented due to the nature of games.  If it was useful and someone realized how to do it, someone could probably take the power of a lightning bolt spell and put into a battery to power things or to cause chemical reactions such as electroplating.
 
Home heating would be much more obvious.  Take the energy of a fireball to create steam, use heat metal on a layer of metal under the floor, etc.  It wouldn't be widespread but in a world with the level of magic of a typical D&D world, the elite will have magical heating at least on par to what rich Romans enjoyed.  
 
Slowly applied heat spells would do wonders for cooking as well.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: winkingbishop on March 03, 2010, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: Nicephorus;364369Slight highjack, but I've noticed that most spells are combat oriented due to the nature of games.  If it was useful and someone realized how to do it, someone could probably take the power of a lightning bolt spell and put into a battery to power things or to cause chemical reactions such as electroplating.
 
Home heating would be much more obvious.  Take the energy of a fireball to create steam, use heat metal on a layer of metal under the floor, etc.  It wouldn't be widespread but in a world with the level of magic of a typical D&D world, the elite will have magical heating at least on par to what rich Romans enjoyed.  
 
Slowly applied heat spells would do wonders for cooking as well.

To say nothing of what happens when you get golems driving mills or, say, turbines.  I've wrestled with this puzzling 'infinite energy' offered by constructs and elementals in my own setting(s).  Magic does funny things to worlds.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Tetsubo on March 03, 2010, 07:21:20 PM
Quote from: winkingbishop;364376To say nothing of what happens when you get golems driving mills or, say, turbines.  I've wrestled with this puzzling 'infinite energy' offered by constructs and elementals in my own setting(s).  Magic does funny things to worlds.

I've used zombies in that manner. Had them 'walk the wheel' to pump water. Relatively low level spell that creates endless work.

Aluminum before electricity was very expensive. Napoleon got in trouble for giving a mistress an aluminum piece of jewelry as it was far more costly than gold.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: RPGPundit on March 04, 2010, 09:55:36 AM
I just assumed by the term "aluminum Pieces" that he was playing D&D.

RPGPundit
Title: Relative worths
Post by: David Johansen on March 04, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
Rolemaster just integrated it into the coin system at 10x platinum and 100x gold and bumped Mirthil to 1000x gold.

Of course, Mirthil could just be alluminum.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 04, 2010, 10:43:31 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;364517I just assumed by the term "aluminum Pieces" that he was playing D&D.

RPGPundit
The game I'm making is my *"Fantasy Heartbreaker", so yeah.

* Except I don't expect fame or fortune. Maybe some lunch money. Or at least break even.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Tetsubo on March 04, 2010, 03:41:33 PM
Quote from: David Johansen;364522Rolemaster just integrated it into the coin system at 10x platinum and 100x gold and bumped Mirthil to 1000x gold.

Of course, Mirthil could just be alluminum.

I've always imagined mithril as having the weight of aluminum but being stronger than steel.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Nicephorus on March 04, 2010, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: Tetsubo;364630I've always imagined mithril as having the weight of aluminum but being stronger than steel.

It could be that fantasy races have discovered how to refine titanium.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: RPGPundit on March 05, 2010, 08:29:48 AM
I prefer to think that Mitrhil is Mithril and not just a fancyname for something mundane.

RPGPundit
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 05, 2010, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;364788I prefer to think that Mitrhil is Mithril and not just a fancyname for something mundane.

RPGPundit
Agreed. *Real* Mithril can stop an attack from a giant troll cold, with no real damage.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: RPGPundit on March 06, 2010, 11:49:56 AM
Well put.

RPGPundit
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Ian Absentia on March 06, 2010, 03:30:43 PM
Quote from: Narf the Mouse;364895Agreed. *Real* Mithril can stop an attack from a giant troll cold, with no real damage.
And my titanium framed eyeglasses went through a lawnmower last summer, and I was able to bend them right back into shape with no visible damage.  Take that, Frodo.

!i!
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Benoist on March 06, 2010, 03:32:28 PM
Morality? Bring at least a bunch of nuclear warheads with you when adventuring in Middle-earth. You never know... you might encounter a group of really tough dwarves.
Title: Relative worths
Post by: Narf the Mouse on March 06, 2010, 03:32:34 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia;365079And my titanium framed eyeglasses went through a lawnmower last summer, and I was able to bend them right back into shape with no visible damage.  Take that, Frodo.

!i!
Hah! That mithril *Chain Shirt* wasn't even scratched!