Relative worths

Narf the Mouse · March 02, 2010, 05:03:37 PM

I'm thinking of throwing in a curveball in my game and adding Aluminum Pieces - Does anyone know the relative, average worth of aluminum versus platinum, historically?

Werekoala · March 02, 2010, 05:05:37 PM

I know that in the 1800-somethingorothers Aluminium was so new and valuable that they plated to capstone of the Washington Monument with it.

David Johansen · March 02, 2010, 05:08:48 PM

They did that in Rolemaster's Treasure companion...

Well...they did...I can look up the information if you want.

Narf the Mouse · March 02, 2010, 05:28:09 PM

Quote from: David Johansen;364131They did that in Rolemaster's Treasure companion...

Well...they did...I can look up the information if you want.

If it's historically (Relatively, of course - Things vary) accurate, then sure, thanks.

Ian Absentia · March 02, 2010, 05:29:03 PM

Werekoala gets to the heart of it -- it's largely dependent upon rarity, modified significantly by utility and aesthetics. Historically, pure aluminum was unknown -- alum salts were, but the refined metal wasn't isolated until the 19th century -- so there's no real grounds for comparison against platinum, gold, or silver. I can't think of any "native" deposits of aluminum -- only ores that require rather technically difficult refinement.

Your mention of aluminum coinage reminded me of the Gloranthan "bolg", a lead coin valued by trolls, but considered virtually worthless by almost everyone else. Now there's a metal that's found in native form.

!i!

flyingmice · March 02, 2010, 05:32:44 PM

Aluminum is very easy to refine - given electricity. Without electricity, you have to have to undergo a long, tedious, process using mercury, which is very toxic, to refine it from bauxite. So, Aluminum is very expensive, until it suddenly becomes cheap.

-clash

David Johansen · March 02, 2010, 05:37:09 PM

Unless you're playing GURPS. Then it's just a simple Create Earth spell away. With Measurement and Shape Earth your wizard can have alluminum platemail in about half an hour.

RPGPundit · March 02, 2010, 06:15:18 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;364146Aluminum is very easy to refine - given electricity. Without electricity, you have to have to undergo a long, tedious, process using mercury, which is very toxic, to refine it from bauxite. So, Aluminum is very expensive, until it suddenly becomes cheap.

-clash

So what you're saying is that you've found an Industrial use for the Shocking Grasp and Lightning Bolt spells?

In that case, the answer to the OP would be that Aluminum pieces, generally only able to be made by magic, would likely be VERY valuable, relatively speaking.

RPGPundit

Ian Absentia · March 02, 2010, 06:23:50 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;364156So what you're saying is that you've found an Industrial use for the Shocking Grasp and Lightning Bolt spells?

In the repertoire of a very inquisitive and enterprising alchemist, that sounds very good. I like it a lot, in fact.

QuoteIn that case, the answer to the OP would be that Aluminum pieces, generally only able to be made by magic, would likely be VERY valuable, relatively speaking.

Returning to Glorantha, aluminum is one of the magic metals that can be imbued with powerful magic, and is therefore very valuable. I think all of the native deposits are bones of dead gods, though, so there's another optional source.

!i!

flyingmice · March 02, 2010, 06:42:55 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;364156So what you're saying is that you've found an Industrial use for the Shocking Grasp and Lightning Bolt spells?

In that case, the answer to the OP would be that Aluminum pieces, generally only able to be made by magic, would likely be VERY valuable, relatively speaking.

RPGPundit

Yes, but I don't know the setting's magic system, if it has one.

-clash

Narf the Mouse · March 02, 2010, 09:05:00 PM

No default setting, but it's "D&D-style". So the "setting" is less historical and more histerical.

Xanther · March 03, 2010, 03:46:46 PM

It takes a lot of electricity to refine aluminum. More than a spell is likely to provide. Then you need to not just zap it but use the electricity to create a gradient to separate the stuff. Is magical electricity AC or DC? I could see some elaborate circut or battery to capture the magical electricity and an assembly line of wizards to power the contraption.

Nicephorus · March 03, 2010, 04:11:15 PM

Quote from: Xanther;364365It takes a lot of electricity to refine aluminum. More than a spell is likely to provide. Then you need to not just zap it but use the electricity to create a gradient to separate the stuff. Is magical electricity AC or DC? I could see some elaborate circut or battery to capture the magical electricity and an assembly line of wizards to power the contraption.

Slight highjack, but I've noticed that most spells are combat oriented due to the nature of games. If it was useful and someone realized how to do it, someone could probably take the power of a lightning bolt spell and put into a battery to power things or to cause chemical reactions such as electroplating.

Home heating would be much more obvious. Take the energy of a fireball to create steam, use heat metal on a layer of metal under the floor, etc. It wouldn't be widespread but in a world with the level of magic of a typical D&D world, the elite will have magical heating at least on par to what rich Romans enjoyed.

Slowly applied heat spells would do wonders for cooking as well.

winkingbishop · March 03, 2010, 04:52:34 PM

Quote from: Nicephorus;364369Slight highjack, but I've noticed that most spells are combat oriented due to the nature of games. If it was useful and someone realized how to do it, someone could probably take the power of a lightning bolt spell and put into a battery to power things or to cause chemical reactions such as electroplating.

Home heating would be much more obvious. Take the energy of a fireball to create steam, use heat metal on a layer of metal under the floor, etc. It wouldn't be widespread but in a world with the level of magic of a typical D&D world, the elite will have magical heating at least on par to what rich Romans enjoyed.

Slowly applied heat spells would do wonders for cooking as well.

To say nothing of what happens when you get golems driving mills or, say, turbines. I've wrestled with this puzzling 'infinite energy' offered by constructs and elementals in my own setting(s). Magic does funny things to worlds.

Tetsubo · March 03, 2010, 07:21:20 PM

Quote from: winkingbishop;364376To say nothing of what happens when you get golems driving mills or, say, turbines. I've wrestled with this puzzling 'infinite energy' offered by constructs and elementals in my own setting(s). Magic does funny things to worlds.

I've used zombies in that manner. Had them 'walk the wheel' to pump water. Relatively low level spell that creates endless work.

Aluminum before electricity was very expensive. Napoleon got in trouble for giving a mistress an aluminum piece of jewelry as it was far more costly than gold.