Has anybody here tried the new "Red Box" D&D set, sold under the name "D&D Essentials," yet?
Yes, it is D&D 4th edition with slightly different classes and powers. The Red Box itself is a tutorial to get you started playing and refereeing D&D 4th edition and does a pretty job of doing that. However that is pretty much all it does. There is just enough material to run a handful of sessions after the first two adventures.
Estar basically got it. Don't think so much of it in terms of heir to Mentzer Basic D&D (the actual Red Box), but rather as an heir to Holmes D&D (the blue book/box of 1977): it gives you the fundamental, enough to run through a few levels, but you'll want to upgrade to the full Essentials system after a short while.
All right does that seem like a strange first post to anyone else here?
Pete
I have it, but haven't played it. Don't think much of it.
Unless you are complete newbie, you're better off buying a copy of the character book or the rules compendium.
Quote from: pspahn;407748All right does that seem like a strange first post to anyone else here?
Yup.
Seanchai
So a guy is interested in an introductory product from the world's most famous game line, and wanders in to an online forum to ask about it.
He must be a sockpuppeting troll! Get 'im, (fan)boys!!!
Will pick it up in two weeks time, simply for the nostalgia of the box. I don't think I'll ever play it, but I will certainly enjoy having the red box on the shelf.
Quote from: The_Shadow;407828So a guy is interested in an introductory product from the world's most famous game line, and wanders in to an online forum to ask about it.
He must be a sockpuppeting troll! Get 'im, (fan)boys!!!
Shrug. I can think of better places to get information. For example, Googling "Red Box D&D" turns up a brief review and pictures of the contents in the first three thinks. Given the easy availability of pertinent information elsewhere, yeah, it's a little fishy.
Seanchai
Quote from: The_Shadow;407828So a guy is interested in an introductory product from the world's most famous game line, and wanders in to an online forum to ask about it.
He must be a sockpuppeting troll! Get 'im, (fan)boys!!!
Yeah, that reaction surprised me too. Come on guys, he's just asking a question.
@ Walking Paradox: if you have not played D&D for some time but want to get back to it with the current edition of the game, this new Red Box certainly is the best way to start, to then upgrade to Essentials D&D, a line of ten products that cover today's core D&D experience. If however you are still in the flow of things, are a consumate gamer, and just want to try Essentials out, you can just skip the Red Box and go directly for Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Rules Compendium, DM's Kit et al. in the D&D Essentials line of products.
Or you could just find something better than D&D :)
Quote from: Benoist;407843Yeah, that reaction surprised me too. Come on guys, he's just asking a question.
@ Walking Paradox: if you have not played D&D for some time but want to get back to it with the current edition of the game, this new Red Box certainly is the best way to start, to then upgrade to Essentials D&D, a line of ten products that cover today's core D&D experience. If however you are still in the flow of things, are a consumate gamer, and just want to try Essentials out, you can just skip the Red Box and go directly for Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Rules Compendium, DM's Kit et al. in the D&D Essentials line of products.
Hi guys. For what it's worth, I've played 4th Ed. before and I even tried my hand at converting one of my old adventures to it. I did not like the results. I wanted to know if this was just the same old 4th Ed. rules re-hashed or if there was something new in it, like making this a 4.5 edition or something like that.
I feel the need to be familiar with the latest edition of D&D even though I don't play the game anymore unless it's the only one that everyone else wants to play.
Thanks for all the tips. I like reading stuff like this in forums rather than trusting what the average random dolt has to say in his blog or whatever. LOL!
Quote from: brettmb;407846Or you could just find something better than D&D :)
Well, yeah. I figure anybody who's at a gaming site like this that isn't ENWorld or WotC's forums is going to have an anti-D&D attitude. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I think if there has to be a "one size fits all" RPG, then it has to be something better than D&D 4th ed. I can handle the dense rules, but every time I pick up the core books, I keep thinking that the kid that I was when I was 12 who opened his first 1st Ed. PHB would not be able to make head or tail of it.
Quote from: estar;407739Yes, it is D&D 4th edition with slightly different classes and powers. The Red Box itself is a tutorial to get you started playing and refereeing D&D 4th edition and does a pretty job of doing that. However that is pretty much all it does. There is just enough material to run a handful of sessions after the first two adventures.
Is there anything in there on how to make your own adventures or are you stuck with packaged stuff that's in the box?
Alright. Sounds like you know how an RPG works and all. :)
Skip the Red Box entirely, you won't miss anything. Instead, if you want to give Essentials a try, go for
Heroes of the Fallen Lands and
Rules Compendium instead. With the
DM's Kit and
Monster Vault to be released.
Quote from: Walking Paradox;408099I wanted to know if this was just the same old 4th Ed. rules re-hashed or if there was something new in it, like making this a 4.5 edition or something like that.
It's not "4.5" in the sense that it's compatible with the rest of the 4th edition of the game. It basically uses the same processes, the same rules. The Essentials game is essentially simplified by trimming the game down to its bare bones (with Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Wizard only in
Heroes of the Fallen Lands, for instance), and also presents variants of the classes that makes them feel a bit more traditional, in the sense that Fighters don't have "Daily powers" but instead "stances" and "auras", which are continual effects, basically, or Thieves and their "tricks", and so on.
If you're searching for less tactical emphasis and such, no "treasure parcels", no "level appropriate encounters" and such, this might not be it, though. It's still very much the tactical game it was when it first came out. But immersion might be easier on you, depending on your inclinations/play style.
Ack! Walking Paradox I humbly apologize. For the record, I love D&D, as do quite a few others here. Haven't played 4e but I would, especially because I'm intrigued by the skill challenges and how well they work in play.
FWIW, welcome to therpgsite!
Pete
You need info on the Red Box?
I've been doing a ridiculously comprehensive coverage of it at my blog in handy comic book format. (Click the link in my sig line and scroll down for the current 4 installments. Probably a 5th sometime this week.)
Its not really an RPG, but more a tabletop Strategy RPG ala Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea with some MMORPG/anime styled twists.
If that is what you are looking for (or like me can't find anyone willing to play anything else) the D&D Essentials line isn't bad.
As a good RPG?
Yeah. No.
With games like Tunnels & Trolls 5.5 or 7.5, early 80s Basic D&D, X-Plorers, Call of Cthulhu and the like out there, D&D 4e in any guise isn't your best bet for RPG greatness.
But if you want a tabletop tactics wargame with a GM and persistent PCs it isn't a bad choice.
(As I recommend on my blog, find a FLGS with a Wednesday D&D Encounters game going on and try it for yourself to make your own mind up about things. Maybe you want extremely powerful PCs fighting 100+ HP monsters at level 1 on gridded battle maps all day long.)
So for marketing, not only has WOTC created the Bus of Awesomeness focusing on classic D&D art:
http://cyclopeatron.blogspot.com/2010/09/wotc-recycles-classic-trampier-art-on.html
With the interior of Awesomeness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN8FmQcUm9A&feature=player_embedded
But now the TV Spot of Awesomeness focusing on classic D&D art:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1j4MZerR7Q&feature=player_embedded
Note the "Also Available at Target" at the end?
Quote from: Captain Rufus;408135Maybe you want extremely powerful PCs fighting 100+ HP monsters at level 1 on gridded battle maps all day long.)
If that was your actual impression of the new Red Box, I imagine most of your blog readers are going there to laugh at your inanity.
Seriously, maybe a SLIGHTLY less biased and exaggerated opinion on it might be a bit more helpful?
Quote from: Mistwell;408181But now the TV Spot of Awesomeness focusing on classic D&D art:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1j4MZerR7Q&feature=player_embedded?
Wonder who did the heavy metal sounding music for this ad.
Quote from: Mistwell;408183If that was your actual impression of the new Red Box, I imagine most of your blog readers are going there to laugh at your inanity.
Seriously, maybe a SLIGHTLY less biased and exaggerated opinion on it might be a bit more helpful?
Sorry dude. But 4e is still 4e.
1st level PCs with 20-30 HPs. Both the starter set fighter build AND my built using the first Heroes book Knight have +8 to hit doing D10 +5 damage at first level with a 2H Sword. (Not counting combat stances of course. Apparently the Essentials Knight averages 89 HPs of Damage Per turn. At level 8.)
1st level non minion GOBLINS have more HPs than some 2nd Ed AD&D Ravenloft DARKLORDS did.
There is some serious numbers inflation going on here. My D&D Minis Balor has 630 HPs. The Balor in the 1st ed MM maxxed out at 72.
I have another mini whose card gives it 1400 HPs. NO SHIT BRO.
D&D 4 is a Braunstein. And everyone has lots more numbers.
Default PCs have NO minus attributes at level 1 unless you go Specialized array and want to START say your Strength at 20. (18 for the Spec array, +2 from a STR based race.)
I think my coverage is pretty fucking fair especially given I am coming at it from a negative opinioned mindset.
So far most people seem to be enjoying the coverage outside of 4e fanboys who only want it to get a big sloppy virtual blowjob. (I know this is shocking to people, but there are more than either TOTALLY GREAT or IF YOU LIKE THIS YOU EAT BABY in opinions on things.)
Which it sure as fuck won't get from me, though I will be giving it around an "OK" overall score on my 3 tier system. (Bad, OK, Good)
Though as a successor to the D&D we all know from 74-99? Yeah. Not so much.
So quit your bitchin Mistwell. Im spending hours covering the game with well thought out examples and reasoning.
You think I am bein all mean n shit?
Do your own review then if you want to give it a handie.
I don't think you're being mean. I think you're so biased it's causing you to make wild exaggerations (like "hundreds of hit points at first level"), and that effects your ability to analyze the game objectively. It just makes your review useless and inane, not mean.
Dude, I don't care if you like or dislike 4e. Play what you like, bash what you like, whatever. But, in a discussion of the new Red Box, accurate data is more useful than ridiculous ranting. There are lots of folks here who don't like 4e, whose opinions I respect. But your list is mostly meaningless and vapid, and sure isn't particularly useful to someone curious about the new Red Box. Here's a hint - there's no Balor in there.
Guess what was sitting on the shelf - actual physical copies! - at the Wal-Mart last night? The Red Box!
Seanchai
Yet there are none in the Barnes and Noble right by my office, which has an otherwise reasonably well-stocked D&D books shelf. I even looked in the board game section.
Weirdly, I can't bring myself to order it, because I don't want to buy a game I probably won't play, yet I have wandered over there twice and looked for it. My lizard hind-brain is driving me...
It will be in most places sooner or later. Give it time. Just look out cuz it might make you want to play it.
It did me.
Quote from: Mistwell;408181So for marketing, not only has WOTC created the Bus of Awesomeness focusing on classic D&D art:
http://cyclopeatron.blogspot.com/2010/09/wotc-recycles-classic-trampier-art-on.html
With the interior of Awesomeness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN8FmQcUm9A&feature=player_embedded
But now the TV Spot of Awesomeness focusing on classic D&D art:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1j4MZerR7Q&feature=player_embedded
Note the "Also Available at Target" at the end?
Of these, only the last is of any real significance. And yes, Available at Target is the most significant thing there. If it really is, then THAT is a huge development.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Captain Rufus;408373It will be in most places sooner or later. Give it time. Just look out cuz it might make you want to play it.
It did me.
I sort of hope that it does. I feel like D&D is my old high school friend, that I love getting together with once and a while to tell old stories, but if it wanted to go on a road-trip together, I'd make up an excuse and be all like "Oh, uh, sorry, D&D ... I'm swamped with work stuff right now ... but let's catch up and get a beer in a couple months..."
So if the new red box D&D suddenly makes me WANT to go on that trip, so much the better.
Quote from: Seanchai;408330Guess what was sitting on the shelf - actual physical copies! - at the Wal-Mart last night? The Red Box!
Seanchai
You're in Colorado, right? That is super good news.
Quote from: Benoist;408479You're in Colorado, right? That is super good news.
I'm in Colorado. I saw it at a store up in Northglenn. Tonight or tomorrow, I plan on visiting Target. I'll see if it's in a store there as well...
Seanchai
None here in CT yet, but Hasbro tends to have their products in our stores LAST.
I know this being a Transformers fan. First store bought toys show up everywhere else a good MONTH or two before we see them.
Quote from: Seanchai;408480Tonight or tomorrow, I plan on visiting Target. I'll see if it's in a store there as well...
Target was a bust. I looked in the card section, which sold Magic, and their toy section, which had another Magic section, but no Red Box.
Perhaps the store I visited isn't in enough of an upscale neighborhood.
Seanchai
On the news front, this month's Ampersand column on DDi has a preview of the Essentials Ranger (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/dramp/2010October), which I am reading now.
The Ranger is both martial AND primal, marking this as the return of the magic wielding Ranger of old.
Quote from: Shazbot79;408566On the news front, this month's Ampersand column on DDi has a preview of the Essentials Ranger (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/dramp/2010October), which I am reading now.
The Ranger is both martial AND primal, marking this as the return of the magic wielding Ranger of old.
It's a different type of magic though. It blends well with the ranger archetype, IMO. Which makes me think... all Hunters are archers. It's interesting. No Drizzt dual-wielding rangers in Essentials?
Quote from: Benoist;408568It's a different type of magic though. It blends well with the ranger archetype, IMO. Which makes me think... all Hunters are archers. It's interesting. No Drizzt dual-wielding rangers in Essentials?
The Essentials Ranger is getting two sub-classes much like the Knight and Slayer in Heroes of Fallen Kingdoms.
The Hunter is a controller, which is archery based.
The Scout is a melee based striker, Ala' Drizzt.
Introductory level crap is still crap.
Quote from: Shazbot79;408570The Essentials Ranger is getting two sub-classes much like the Knight and Slayer in Heroes of Fallen Kingdoms.
Fallen Lands, you mean. ;)
Forgotten Kingdoms is the other one.
Quote from: Shazbot79;408570The Hunter is a controller, which is archery based.
The Scout is a melee based striker, Ala' Drizzt.
Sounds cool. I like the non-sucky names of the "classes", by the way.
Quote from: Benoist;408574Fallen Lands, you mean. ;)
Forgotten Kingdoms is the other one.
Who can tell anymore???
I wonder what classes will be in "Heroes of the Fragrant Aftershave"?
Quote from: Benoist;408574Sounds cool. I like the non-sucky names of the "classes", by the way.
You mean names like "Knight" and "Slayer" instead of "Shieldwarden" and "Bloodsword"?
Or "Scout" and "Hunter" instead of "Treeblade" and "Arrowshoot"?
I agree. I think that class names should be iconic to the archetype, and contain no more than 3 syllables. ; )
So far, people mostly agree here that it's a good entry-level product, even if many of us don't like 4th Ed. all that much. If something is going to be effective as an entry-level product, then it has to be available to people who are not gamers. And lo and behold:
Quote from: Seanchai;408330Guess what was sitting on the shelf - actual physical copies! - at the Wal-Mart last night? The Red Box!
Seanchai
Quote from: RPGPundit;408441Available at Target is the most significant thing there.
RPGPundit
That more or less seals it. These are stores that have up to a thousand or more customers on a daily basis, stores where people try to go to as a one-stop shop for everything. I bought my first ed. AD&D PHB at a chain book store in the local shopping mall, and my first ed. AD&D World Of Grayhawk boxed set at a Toys R'Us. If new people are going to find their way into the hobby, then maybe this is a good development. Sure, it's 4th ed., but if only 10% of the people who get into D&D from buying it at Wal Mart end up playing something else, supporting their FLGS, going to local cons, and posting to forums like this one, then the Red Box will have done its service to the community.
Just because it's on the shelves doesn't mean people are buying it. Same goes for any book in a store. Most of them fail, 5-10% of books subsidise the rest.
We can't conclude from its presence on the shelves that it's being bought, we'd have to hear from a bookstore owner.
Quote from: RPGPundit;408441Of these, only the last is of any real significance. And yes, Available at Target is the most significant thing there. If it really is, then THAT is a huge development.
I wonder why no one wonders why that "TV ad" is made up from footage from a 4 year old, fan made video homage to old school D&D, one which was also discussed here on theRPGsite.
World of Adventure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjgmzmk1iE0)
Somehow I can't believe that this is an official WotC TV ad. Apparently this ad was made by this site (http://www.allspark.com/content/view/7778/18/). So we don't know if the "Also available at Target" bit is just a homage to older TV and print ads...
Quote from: Shazbot79;408576Who can tell anymore???
I wonder what classes will be in "Heroes of the Fragrant Aftershave"?
LOL I agree. The "Heroes of ..." titles suck. They are not indicative of what they actually do in the Essentials line, and they add to the overall confusion of what Essentials is and isn't. Sure, "Player's Handbook" isn't the flashiest title one could come up with, but it does what it says it does. There could have been a variant title like "DM's Kit" is to "DMG" or "Monster Vault" to "MM".
Quote from: Shazbot79;408576You mean names like "Knight" and "Slayer" instead of "Shieldwarden" and "Bloodsword"?
Or "Scout" and "Hunter" instead of "Treeblade" and "Arrowshoot"?
I agree. I think that class names should be iconic to the archetype, and contain no more than 3 syllables. ; )
That's -exactly- what I mean, yes. :)
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;408612I wonder why no one wonders why that "TV ad" is made up from footage from a 4 year old, fan made video homage to old school D&D, one which was also discussed here on theRPGsite.
World of Adventure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjgmzmk1iE0)
Somehow I can't believe that this is an official WotC TV ad. Apparently this ad was made by this site (http://www.allspark.com/content/view/7778/18/). So we don't know if the "Also available at Target" bit is just a homage to older TV and print ads...
Hmm, good catch. I have to admit that I got fooled.
RPGpundit