I've rarely had any problems recruiting reliable players for face-to-face gaming. If you just recruit random gamers, of every ten players you meet and/or bring along to a session,

• 1 you'll never see or hear from again, and months or years from now you'll stumble across their character sheet and wonder who the fuck they were
• 3 will express great enthusiasm, show up irregularly for 2-8 sessions, then disappear
• 2 will show up on and off, infrequent but steady over years
• 1 would be reliable, but either didn't like the people and game already there, or gets a new job/spouse and can't play at that time,
• 1 will be a creep or lunatic or annoying bastard whom you tell to bugger off, saying, "we feel our play styles are not compatible"
• 2 will be pretty steady and reliable, and you want them to show up.

By careful selection and discussion before a game session, and presenting good campaign ideas, etc, you can improve the ratio of the good last type from 2/10 to 5/10 or so.

But the ratio seems different for online games. The first two unreliable mysteriously disappearing types seem to make up 9 out of 10, instead of 4.

What is it about online games, is it simply that the threshold of confrontation or avoidance is lower, it's easier to flake off online? Do the sort of people who spend a lot of time online tend to have shorter attention spans, and/or less interest in actual social interaction? Or what?

How can I improve this? Since I work from home, and often have to wait while things are cooking, etc, I have free time during the day which I'd like to spend gaming. This time is also the US evenings, and US people make up the bulk of the English-speaking internet, and of course there's a high level of internet use among gamers, compared to the population as a whole. So in principle, there are lots of potential gamers out there.

Yet most online games fizzle. If my face-to-face games fizzled, too, then I'd just conclude that it's me putting people off. But my face-to-face games are great successes. So...?

I'm thinking it might be good to charge people for running an online game. Even a nominal fee of one or two dollars per session would weed out the totally unreliable, and ensure the semi-reliable ones showed up - going on the same principle that if you have a free pdf rpg, everyone will download it but hardly anyone read it, whereas if you charge them a couple of bucks, few people will download it, but they'll all read it.

Thoughts? I know how to get and keep a face-to-face group, but not an online group.

You would think that online gaming would be easier.  After all, its not a gathering at an inconvenient location.  Everyone plays from the convenience of their own home.  The truth is completely different.

For whatever reason, its just inherently easier to flake out.  A part of it is the anonymity of the net.  Everything seems so impersonal.  Another part is I'm fairly certain many people say "yes, I'll show up" with no intention whatsoever of ever carrying through.

Even when people show up, they tend to be easily distracted by other things.  They may be watching TV.  They may be playing a game on their PC.  Or they might be surfing the web.  In any event, they're not really paying attention to the game.

I know you disagree with the sentiment of "RPGs are 1 hour of fun crammed into 4 hours." but the statement is especially true with online games.  Online games are SLOOOOOW.  I think the 1 hour of fun per 4 hours is way too high of an estimate.  I'd say it's more like 15 minutes per 4 hours where online games are involved.

Dunno man.  I feel you though.  Most online games I've tried have had a high flake ratio.  But I haven't had good luck with IRL games having a decently low flake ratio either, so...  meh.  

That said, I'm up for chat gaming.

The low fun ratio may be a reason for their not joining a group I run - expecting it'll not be that exciting anyway - but cannot be a reason for their not staying if they do have fun. In games I run and play in, whether online or face-to-face, it's not a mere 20 minutes' fun in 4 hours. It's a lot more fun than that.

I think the distraction issue you mentioned may be an important one. Since a roleplaying game is interactive, you get out of it what you put into it. So if the person is busy surfing the web or chatting to other people at the same time, they won't enjoy the game session as much. In person, you can get the other players to put their comics away, turn off the tv, quit fucking about with their mobile phone or whatever. Online, you've no way of knowing what they're up to.

Perhaps the nominal fee would help that. They'd then concentrate, since they want their money's worth - even if it's just a buck or two.

My solution has been:
1) Recruit Friends. People I know online for some amount of time.
2) Take Risks on new people but don't count on them.
3) Verify dates/times. Mind you I'm bad at this but with emails, regularly chats, whatever letting them know when you are running a game.
4) Don't give up running a game idea just because people flake. Mentioning to other people from time to time offhandedly (both FTF and electronically) has netted me people interested in the ideas and who were willing to show. In spite of the first couple of attempts with others fizzling.

Take into account international schedules/holidays/school (finals and stuff). And don't expect to game every single time once a week. (I've found bi weekly is often better for commitment, that way schedule issues are a little more easily adjusted around.

Be Earnestly Persistent but not annoying. Recruit people already likely to be around. (This is why I like the relaxed chatterly stuff of my friends on RPGChat, considering several of us are working on writing games that kind of chat helps to keep people around and willing to go: Oh I'm here anyway might as well.)

Of course I'm not mentioning the gaming itself--good, bad, or indifferent doesn't always have an effect on people showing.

Quote from: RedFoxThat said, I'm up for chat gaming.

So you keep saying, yet you've still to ever appear on MSN IM, or in #therpgsite, despite my repeated suggestions that you do so. From which I conclude that either you don't want to game with me (which is fair enough, not eveyrone likes everyone), or that you're a Mr. Enthused (Not) - the guy who babbles at length about his enthusiasm for a game, and the louder his enthusiasm, the less likely he is to show up

Quote from: JimBobOzSo you keep saying, yet you've still to ever appear on MSN IM, or in #therpgsite, despite my repeated suggestions that you do so. From which I conclude that either you don't want to game with me (which is fair enough, not eveyrone likes everyone), or that you're a Mr. Enthused (Not) - the guy who babbles at length about his enthusiasm for a game, and the louder his enthusiasm, the less likely he is to show up

Feh, I've been having trouble getting GAIM to cooperate lately.  That said I'll be on tomorrow for sure.

What's #therpgsite?  First time I've heard it mentioned.  IRC channel of some sort?

Quote from: RedFoxWhat's #therpgsite?  First time I've heard it mentioned.  IRC channel of some sort?

Yes, on the Magicstar server, same one as #rpgnet - if #rpgnet's still going, I don't know, last I visited it was full of lurkers and BNGs.

Quote from: JimBobOzYes, on the Magicstar server, same one as #rpgnet - if #rpgnet's still going, I don't know, last I visited it was full of lurkers and BNGs.

Ah, cool.  If I get GAIM working properly tomorrow I should still have the magicstar stuff setup in it.  What's a BNG?

Oh wait, bitter non-gamer?

Quote from: JimBobOzYes, on the Magicstar server, same one as #rpgnet - if #rpgnet's still going, I don't know, last I visited it was full of lurkers and BNGs.

#theRPGsite keeps me around as an exhibit.  Kyle walks visitors by and gives his speech about BittermusGamerus.  I poop in front of the spectators.  Small children poke at me and throw things.

Also I keep games aorund 3 hours long. So more commitment than a movie but not much.

OK, I've had these issues too.  Here is history -

PlaybyPost on Yahoo - D&D Kalamar game - DM -made it to 1000 posts (approx.) and then died with pvp fighting.

PlaybyPost on Yahoo - BoH game - DM -1838 posts (approx.) and still going with the original players, but I can't seem to add.

PlaybyPost on PLAYBYWEB.COM - AD&D - PC - 8 years (approx.) and still going, but with players in and out (down to 3 current).

Tons of starts and stops because of no players, GM loss and board/chat issues.

When I talked to others about this, they mentioned...
1. Tons of distractions on the net
2. Tons of choice on the net
3. The games are slower
4. The games are open ended, which is fine for table games, but online could be an issue
5. Basic machine/access issues
6. You never know who you will get when playing online (young kids tend to be munchie than older players, etc.)
7. Honesty is missing (for a lot of people) because "YOU CAN'T SEE ME!"
8. For some people, typos are really and issue.  Some people get insane about it.

Another issue I have had...I've looked for Associate/Co GMs, and I can never find anybody.  Nobody seems to know how to share any more.

BobManGM