Quote from: Balbinus;221377I can't speak so much to current versions, but D&D works best when you accept a level of abstraction and just justify it to yourself however works.  Overthinking the mechanics rarely leads to happiness.

If, as at times I've found myself in the past, you can't get with that abstraction or justify it to yourself then all I can say is that's why god made Runequest.

So, I figure we're bigass heros who can take wounds that would down a normal man, hence hit points, and I reckon that undead drain your life force so leaving you weakened and less capable.  It's a fudge, but provided you don't  poke it too hard, it's a workable fudge.

If you have to poke, again, I refer you to the ever excellent Runequest :-)

Oh I gotcha. I hated it, but I dealt, cuz I love me some DnD. I just made sure that if I got delvled, I arranged to get everyone else delvled too so I wasn't lagging behind Yes, I suck.

Quote from: Sigmund;221384Oh I gotcha. I hated it, but I dealt, cuz I love me some DnD. I just made sure that if I got delvled, I arranged to get everyone else delvled too so I wasn't lagging behind Yes, I suck.

Hah.  Send more cops...

'Tis true. Undead are bloody scary in early d&d.

It did get wearing in one campaign i took part in, in the late '80s. Every time we actually levelled up, we'd be lucky to keep it for more than a session or two before we lost it again. That was frustrating. I think my Fighter eventually managed to reach 5th level again - he got to 7th at one stage, then tangled with a vampire.

I don't recommend the 'undead hunter' type of campaign with RC or ad&d (as the above campaign was). But as occassional enemies, they are very cool.

Bah... undead aren't scary.  It's the critters with insta-kill poison.  Now that's scary.

Quote from: mhensley;221399Bah... undead aren't scary.  It's the critters with insta-kill poison.  Now that's scary.

Such things exist?

Bugger.  I can see more use of Fly combined with Fireball coming up in future.

Quote from: Balbinus;221401Such things exist?

Bugger.  I can see more use of Fly combined with Fireball coming up in future.

If you fail a saving throw against poison in most early versions of D&D, (earlier than D&D3) your character dies. Doesn't matter if it's a giant centipede with 2hp, or a Wyvern.

If a character is raised or resurrected without having first having been cured, the DM would often rule that he dies again.

There are a few exceptions: some types of creatures are specifically detailed as having poison that only does damage on a failed save. I think this started around Monster Manual II.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;221409If you fail a saving throw against poison in most early versions of D&D, (earlier than D&D3) your character dies. Doesn't matter if it's a giant centipede with 2hp, or a Wyvern.

I'm pretty sure the poison from the Giant Centipede doesn't actually kill -- it makes you sick / incapacitated.

Edit:  This is from Labyrinth Lord, and I'm sure it's the same as the original Moldvay Basic rules:

QuoteThese 1' long centipedes prefer dark, wet locations. Giant centipedes attack with a poisonous bite. No damage is inflicted by the bite, but anyone bitten is entitled to a saving
throw versus poison. Failure indicates that the victim is horribly sick for a period of 10 days, and can only move at 50% of normal movement. No other physical activity is possible.  

Quote from: Stuart;221425I'm pretty sure the poison from the Giant Centipede doesn't actually kill -- it makes you sick / incapacitated.

We'll fireball them from orbit, it's the only way to make sure.

Some monsters (like the Giant Centipede) shouldn't attack player characters unless they do something like rummage through a pile of moldy old rags the things have built their nest in.

No normal animal (or animal-like-monster) under normal circumstances would attack a larger enemy / group of enemies...

Quote from: mhensley;221399Bah... undead aren't scary. It's the critters with insta-kill poison. Now that's scary.

Yea, a bit of back luck (lucky attack roll followed by poor save roll) ends a character.  Neutralize poison is a spell to always have memorized once you get high enough.

Quote from: Nicephorus;221442Yea, a bit of back luck (lucky attack roll followed by poor save roll) ends a character.  Neutralize poison is a spell to always have memorized once you get high enough.

My 14th level Magic User died from a single bite from a furry snake because the party Cleric failed to have Neutralise Poison memorised. I got raised, but we gave him grief over that and reminded him at every opportunity to memorise it...

Quote from: Stuart;221425I'm pretty sure the poison from the Giant Centipede doesn't actually kill -- it makes you sick / incapacitated.

Edit:  This is from Labyrinth Lord, and I'm sure it's the same as the original Moldvay Basic rules:

I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

Quote from: Nicephorus;221442Yea, a bit of back luck (lucky attack roll followed by poor save roll) ends a character.  Neutralize poison is a spell to always have memorized once you get high enough.

Yeah, I always stopped playing the Eye of the Beholder game on the level with all the spiders.  Killed me every time.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;221477I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

I don't think so.  I'm pretty sure the text from Labyrinth Lord is a direct quote of the Moldvay edition entry for Giant Centipede.  I was looking at it just last night (because I'm writing a Basic D&D adventure for WoAdWriMo).  I'll check when I get home tonight... but I'm sure you're wrong.

Quote from: Stuart;221487I don't think so.  I'm pretty sure the text from Labyrinth Lord is a direct quote of the Moldvay edition entry for Giant Centipede.  I was looking at it just last night (because I'm writing a Basic D&D adventure for WoAdWriMo).  I'll check when I get home tonight... but I'm sure you're wrong.

Well.. I know for sure it isnt like that in AD&D, and movement restricting effects seem extremely unlikely in Basic. This is exactly the kind of rule I would have wanted to write my own version of if I had an OGL'd version of the rules, so that's why I think it isn't the same way.

I guess I'll have to actually look at a book.