Quote from: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 07:18:49 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 27, 2021, 05:23:09 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 05:19:21 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 26, 2021, 10:45:33 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 26, 2021, 10:27:44 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 26, 2021, 08:20:54 PM
Speaking of Alignment, a recent Jordan Peterson quote struck me:

"Life is a battle of Good against Evil played out on the battlefield of Law against Chaos."

Exactly.

D&D invented the two axis alignment. In real mythology/religion, like Indo-European, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, etc you have order synonymous with good and chaos with bad. Ma'at vs Apep, Gods vs Titans/Giants, etc. They didn't have good and evil as additional separate metaphysical concepts. Nor did Moorcock.

You may want to check out the ancient Chinese, they groked the multi axis alignment system.

How so? Without specific references I can't research what you're talking about.

You can start with Taoism

The Bagua gives a pictorial example of the axis:

That has nothing to do with alignment.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 27, 2021, 08:17:47 PM
That has nothing to do with alignment.

Sounds like you have too much Yin

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 27, 2021, 04:48:53 PM

This might go back to the arguments that keep showing up that go something like: "No reasonable person would believe what Pundit says is literally true." It's all being done for the clicks.

But it's not getting him clicks in the quantity needed to monetize his channel in a meaningful way.

This video for example has about 2700 views. His MOST popular video has less than 11,000 views. That's not nearly enough to approach a justification for...well...ANY schtick. For reference, most channels get paid 0.5 USD per 1000 views, though that rate grows as your viewer count grows (so I think you make around $5 per 1000 views at 20K views?) So this video made him...about $3 - $6? This message board likely costs him about that today?

And he's been at this for just over 3 years now.

So if this is about the clicks...might I suggest there is probably some room for improvement in his strategy?

For example, Pundit was one of the consultants on 5e. If he made a series of videos concerning his consultations (whatever he can say under his NDA) and his thoughts about the beta test rules and then the rules which eventually came out for the core game, I bet he'd get a LOT more views. There is a lot of content there, a lot of history that nobody else can tell, and a lot of rules insight which a lot of fans are interested in. Coming at looking at 5e from an old school perspective is pretty popular. And once he had a following it would be easier for him to transition to covering indie games, including his own stuff. Not to mention I bet a lot of people would be curious to hear about gaming in Uruguay.

But that would require ditching some of the schtick. He'd have to be on camera, at least some of the time. He'd have to cut some of the hyperbolic character crap (but not all of it: people would want to seem him smoking a cigar and drinking some liquor and being brash still) or exaggerate it to be even more obvious schtick (one or the other). He'd have to actually promote it on social media (or get someone else to do it). And he'd have to spend more time to put more thought into his videos, come up with an intro with some opening and closing music, and probably put up a patreon. But, I bet it would pay off, after a year or so.

Quote from: Mistwell on May 27, 2021, 04:43:43 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 26, 2021, 10:17:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 26, 2021, 02:07:27 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 25, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
Ravenloft has removed alignment from #dnd5e and Drow are now Good. This is all a Postmodernist plan to move #dnd away from myth and moral absolutes of heroic fantasy into "OMG So Random" soulless play.
#ttrpg #osr

So, in case anyone was still thinking RPGPundit was posting accurate information about D&D:

1) Ravenloft doesn't ban alignment.
2) Ravenloft doesn't make Drow good.
3) The RPGPundit hasn't even read the book he's talking about.

1. Are there Alignment stats for any of the creatures in the new Ravenloft book? And that this is in fact a continuation of a change that actually started with Candlekeep?
Go ahead, look it up if you like, I'll wait.

Not listed in two books /= banned from D&D. You have evidence to the contrary? Go ahead, I'll wait.

Two major subsequent D&D books have no had Alignment. It's very clearly a policy change. Very clearly intentional. Or are you suggesting that the WoTC staff are a gang of rank incompetents who have just plum forgot that alignment exists for two major product launches in a row?

Is that your argument, that they're morons?

Quote

Quote3. I don't need to read something to get reliable information about what is or isn't in it. Now, are alignment stats in it, you fucking liar??

I never claimed alignment stats are in it, YOU claimed it banned alignment, you fucking liar.

And they clearly have. There's no more Alignment in the D&D rules from here on in. That's a ban.

But let's face it, you're not actually trying to claim "you still have alignment", you're just a smarmy little weasel trying to push ideological covering fire for these motherfucking Maoist cunts.

Quote from: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 05:19:21 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 26, 2021, 10:45:33 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 26, 2021, 10:27:44 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 26, 2021, 08:20:54 PM
Speaking of Alignment, a recent Jordan Peterson quote struck me:

"Life is a battle of Good against Evil played out on the battlefield of Law against Chaos."

Exactly.

D&D invented the two axis alignment. In real mythology/religion, like Indo-European, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, etc you have order synonymous with good and chaos with bad. Ma'at vs Apep, Gods vs Titans/Giants, etc. They didn't have good and evil as additional separate metaphysical concepts. Nor did Moorcock.

You may want to check out the ancient Chinese, they groked the multi axis alignment system.

Correct.

Quote from: Mistwell on May 27, 2021, 11:55:44 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 27, 2021, 04:48:53 PM

This might go back to the arguments that keep showing up that go something like: "No reasonable person would believe what Pundit says is literally true." It's all being done for the clicks.

But it's not getting him clicks in the quantity needed to monetize his channel in a meaningful way.

This video for example has about 2700 views. His MOST popular video has less than 11,000 views. That's not nearly enough to approach a justification for...well...ANY schtick. For reference, most channels get paid 0.5 USD per 1000 views, though that rate grows as your viewer count grows (so I think you make around $5 per 1000 views at 20K views?) So this video made him...about $3 - $6? This message board likely costs him about that today?

And he's been at this for just over 3 years now.

So if this is about the clicks...might I suggest there is probably some room for improvement in his strategy?

For example, Pundit was one of the consultants on 5e. If he made a series of videos concerning his consultations (whatever he can say under his NDA) and his thoughts about the beta test rules and then the rules which eventually came out for the core game, I bet he'd get a LOT more views. There is a lot of content there, a lot of history that nobody else can tell, and a lot of rules insight which a lot of fans are interested in. Coming at looking at 5e from an old school perspective is pretty popular. And once he had a following it would be easier for him to transition to covering indie games, including his own stuff. Not to mention I bet a lot of people would be curious to hear about gaming in Uruguay.

But that would require ditching some of the schtick. He'd have to be on camera, at least some of the time. He'd have to cut some of the hyperbolic character crap (but not all of it: people would want to seem him smoking a cigar and drinking some liquor and being brash still) or exaggerate it to be even more obvious schtick (one or the other). He'd have to actually promote it on social media (or get someone else to do it). And he'd have to spend more time to put more thought into his videos, come up with an intro with some opening and closing music, and probably put up a patreon. But, I bet it would pay off, after a year or so.

I learned long ago not to take strategic advice from people who despise me and would cheer if I died.

Nor do I need any. My RPG work bought me a three bedroom house, bitch. It took a great deal of work and effort and time, in other words discipline, but for the past four years or so I'm almost entirely making my living off RPGs. And for the last couple, I've literally been making more money than I would know what to do with.

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 28, 2021, 11:35:36 PM

I learned long ago not to take strategic advice from people who despise me and would cheer if I died.

Nor do I need any. My RPG work bought me a three bedroom house, bitch. It took a great deal of work and effort and time, in other words discipline, but for the past four years or so I'm almost entirely making my living off RPGs. And for the last couple, I've literally been making more money than I would know what to do with.

Dammit Pundit!
How dare you!

I can't believe you have the audacity to make an acceptable living off of the hobby you enjoy. 

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 28, 2021, 11:35:36 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 27, 2021, 11:55:44 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 27, 2021, 04:48:53 PM

This might go back to the arguments that keep showing up that go something like: "No reasonable person would believe what Pundit says is literally true." It's all being done for the clicks.

But it's not getting him clicks in the quantity needed to monetize his channel in a meaningful way.

This video for example has about 2700 views. His MOST popular video has less than 11,000 views. That's not nearly enough to approach a justification for...well...ANY schtick. For reference, most channels get paid 0.5 USD per 1000 views, though that rate grows as your viewer count grows (so I think you make around $5 per 1000 views at 20K views?) So this video made him...about $3 - $6? This message board likely costs him about that today?

And he's been at this for just over 3 years now.

So if this is about the clicks...might I suggest there is probably some room for improvement in his strategy?

For example, Pundit was one of the consultants on 5e. If he made a series of videos concerning his consultations (whatever he can say under his NDA) and his thoughts about the beta test rules and then the rules which eventually came out for the core game, I bet he'd get a LOT more views. There is a lot of content there, a lot of history that nobody else can tell, and a lot of rules insight which a lot of fans are interested in. Coming at looking at 5e from an old school perspective is pretty popular. And once he had a following it would be easier for him to transition to covering indie games, including his own stuff. Not to mention I bet a lot of people would be curious to hear about gaming in Uruguay.

But that would require ditching some of the schtick. He'd have to be on camera, at least some of the time. He'd have to cut some of the hyperbolic character crap (but not all of it: people would want to seem him smoking a cigar and drinking some liquor and being brash still) or exaggerate it to be even more obvious schtick (one or the other). He'd have to actually promote it on social media (or get someone else to do it). And he'd have to spend more time to put more thought into his videos, come up with an intro with some opening and closing music, and probably put up a patreon. But, I bet it would pay off, after a year or so.

I learned long ago not to take strategic advice from people who despise me and would cheer if I died.

Nor do I need any. My RPG work bought me a three bedroom house, bitch. It took a great deal of work and effort and time, in other words discipline, but for the past four years or so I'm almost entirely making my living off RPGs. And for the last couple, I've literally been making more money than I would know what to do with.

You remind me of Larry Correia. That's a compliment, mind you. He's derided as a D-list author... except that he bought part of a mountain in Utah to build a house there with his book proceeds.

Success is an excellent argument in one's favor, after all.

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 28, 2021, 11:23:39 PM

And they clearly have. There's no more Alignment in the D&D rules from here on in. That's a ban.

I can confirm that yes indeed no monster in the Beyond version had any alignment at all.
They do though in the descriptions often mention the creature is evil, vicious, and so on.
I think this was part of the "personalize it!" drive that seems to be a big ideal in the book? Which I guess would make listing alignments pointless if anything can be anything? Or maybe not. It makes little sense without some context and I just did not see any explanation?

I do not think any NPCs had alignments either other than something like "this person did evil things" or "this person hunts evil"

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 28, 2021, 11:30:32 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 05:19:21 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 26, 2021, 10:45:33 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 26, 2021, 10:27:44 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 26, 2021, 08:20:54 PM
Speaking of Alignment, a recent Jordan Peterson quote struck me:

"Life is a battle of Good against Evil played out on the battlefield of Law against Chaos."

Exactly.

D&D invented the two axis alignment. In real mythology/religion, like Indo-European, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, etc you have order synonymous with good and chaos with bad. Ma'at vs Apep, Gods vs Titans/Giants, etc. They didn't have good and evil as additional separate metaphysical concepts. Nor did Moorcock.

You may want to check out the ancient Chinese, they groked the multi axis alignment system.

Correct.

The Taoists did not have an alignment system with good/evil perpendicular to law/chaos. That's not what the bagua is. The bagua is completely irrelevant to this argument.

The two-axis alignment system of law/chaos perpendicular to good/evil is unique to D&D and doesn't have support in any real belief system. It has tons of problems with regards to ethical analysis, which many people have already analyzed and criticized at length for decades.

QuoteMost of those do have alignment. Warhammer certainly does: Law vs Chaos. They just don't have alignment stats.

1st edition indeed had alignment, as it was mostly D&D pastiche. (It also had Good (for Elves) and Evil (for Necromancers)
Later it was scrapped - Law as tangible force was retconned out, and to fit Warp Lores of 40k and Fantasy - the Chaos is at least implied to be more like cosmic fuckup - than cosmological constant in D&D sake.

TBH - not to really absolves wokesters in WOTC, but Ravenloft seems to be this one convention that can easily work without alignment, considering whole premise of PCs vs what can be best described as Cosmic Horror in Gothic Tuxedo. There are certain conditions that make Demiplane to influence you... and can be easily done in descriptive way.
Especially since many traditional sins barely ticks evil in D&D like Pride, or are if anything more on L-C axis, like various lecherous shenanigans sans R-word itself.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 30, 2021, 12:44:36 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 28, 2021, 11:30:32 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 27, 2021, 05:19:21 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 26, 2021, 10:45:33 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 26, 2021, 10:27:44 PM

Quote from: Shasarak on May 26, 2021, 08:20:54 PM
Speaking of Alignment, a recent Jordan Peterson quote struck me:

"Life is a battle of Good against Evil played out on the battlefield of Law against Chaos."

Exactly.

D&D invented the two axis alignment. In real mythology/religion, like Indo-European, Mesopotamian, Egyptian, etc you have order synonymous with good and chaos with bad. Ma'at vs Apep, Gods vs Titans/Giants, etc. They didn't have good and evil as additional separate metaphysical concepts. Nor did Moorcock.

You may want to check out the ancient Chinese, they groked the multi axis alignment system.

Correct.

The Taoists did not have an alignment system with good/evil perpendicular to law/chaos. That's not what the bagua is. The bagua is completely irrelevant to this argument.

The two-axis alignment system of law/chaos perpendicular to good/evil is unique to D&D and doesn't have support in any real belief system. It has tons of problems with regards to ethical analysis, which many people have already analyzed and criticized at length for decades.

The Confucians did. Not literally the D&D system of course. But they certainly had a perspective of that idea of there being a struggle between good and evil playing itself out in the human dimension in a struggle between order and chaos.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 30, 2021, 12:44:36 PM
The Taoists did not have an alignment system with good/evil perpendicular to law/chaos. That's not what the bagua is. The bagua is completely irrelevant to this argument.

The two-axis alignment system of law/chaos perpendicular to good/evil is unique to D&D and doesn't have support in any real belief system. It has tons of problems with regards to ethical analysis, which many people have already analyzed and criticized at length for decades.

I think that it is only parts of privileged West Coast US civilisation that seem to believe there is no good and evil.

I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about Alignment.

A Demon is still a demon.

If the Orcs are carrying kidnapped children to put in the cooking pot to eat later no one's going to stop and debate alignment.

Quote from: TJS on May 31, 2021, 12:21:00 AM
I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about Alignment.

A Demon is still a demon.

If the Orcs are carrying kidnapped children to put in the cooking pot to eat later no one's going to stop and debate alignment.

Everyones gotta eat, amiright