Some stuff from today that might interest you...
QuoteRe: [5e] Live Q&A Today at 11 AM PDT
Started five minutes late. It's Mike and Rodney on camera, someone else not. Chris Perkins maybe?
It's crunch time, PHB goes to the printers Monday.
Focus of the Q&A is on Starter Set and Basic Rules.
Only about 3-5 spells covered for Cleric and Wizard per level... I hope that's in the Starter Set, that seems a little on the tight side for Basic. Sounds like it could be Basic though. Sheesh. Focus is on the really iconic stuff, but still stuff that has a good level of utility. Augury is on the Cleric list.
Saving throws are still ability based and proficiency applies to them. No surprises there. Ethos is that everything should be resolvable with an attack, ability check, or save.
No modular content in Basic, subraces or subclasses, it's being saved mostly for DMG. Four of the backgrounds will be in, though. No multiclassing, it's going to be labeled optional in the PHB. I'm pleased about that.
Conversion documents will be in, even in Basic (As a separate document.)
No feats in Basic either.
They expect campaigns to be more like "Basic rules, plus some stuff from the core, plus this book" rather than lots of sourcebooks.
DMG text is still being arranged right now. They're also still settling on what secondary parts of the DMG (outside of magic items and adventure creation, of course. Mass combat is mentioned as an example) to put in Basic.
Mike says that the Starter Set adventure was influenced by Night's Dark Terror (!), and can tie into Tyranny of Dragons, but doesn't directly do so (the Cult of the Dragon factors into it), if I understand right. The pregen characters have background stuff (bonds, etc.) chosen to tie into the adventure.
Rodney says one goal with the Starter Set is to teach by example how the Players and the DM can tie the PCs into the adventure and the world around them. Neat!
Tyranny of Dragons is meant to be fairly episodic, with "episodes" based on level. Curious.
As the playtest went on they got a better handle on how powerful PCs are, and how to get monsters in line with that. Rodney says the math is much improved from the open playtest, and the guidelines for determining the difficulty of an encounter are improved as well. They toughened up quite a few monsters, bumped up their damage or HP or AC or whatever.
The entire "real world animals" and giant vermin and stuff section of the MM will be in Basic.
Basic rules will be out July 3rd, with the preferred store release of the Starter Set. They're considering Basic a sort of beta release until the end of the year when all the core rules are out and it settles and formalizes.
Mike suggest even experienced players start with the starter set to get their sea legs under them, but of course he would, since he's selling it, and they lampshaded that fact. Rodney feels they did a good job of making it so you can eyeball encounter balance once you've had a little experience. The guidelines will be inclusive of different party sizes and differing levels within one party.
Basic will include an appendix with a little general information about Forgotten Realms for use with Tyranny of Dragons, the starter set definitely takes place in FR, but is meant to be adaptable.
The PHB covers several different pantheons at least conceptually.
The PHB will make reference to other settings, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, and I think Dark Sun were mentioned, one of the play examples even takes place in Castle Ravenloft.
The art is mostly Realms-influenced. One reason for this is so they have lots of diverse, distinct fantasy cultures to use in art direction. "Zhentarim fighter" instead of just defaulting to "human fighter". This could do some very good things for diversity in the art, IMO.
Red Dragons are the most powerful thing on the basic monster list. Of course. A legendary ancient Red in its lair is, they think, probably the toughest fight they have, but other things like demons might be tougher under other circumstances. I hope the Tarrasque is in the Monster Manual and gets to be a badass.
The green dragon from the cover of the Starter Set is in the adventure, he will be a tough fight for fifth-level PCs.
D&D skews a lot younger than people think based on forums and stuff according to Mike.
Leveling up is fairly brisk, 3-4 sessions a level by default. Tying into the above point they want a full campaign to be playable in a single schoolyear.
One thing Mike and Rodney are excited about in the Basic rules is that it's easy to run an impromptu pickup game, or to bring a new player into an ongoing campaign.
Core stores will get the PHB the 8th or 9th of August. There will be more livestreamed games once their schedule opens up, but there will be another Q&A about the starter adventure in a couple weeks. It will be spoilery so those who expect to play it might be better off skipping.
QuoteNo multiclassing, it's going to be labeled optional in the PHB. I'm pleased about that.
So am I
QuoteConversion documents will be in, even in Basic (As a separate document.)
This is nice.
A little clearer information for you...
QuoteMike Mearls, Rodney Thompson, Trevor off-camera asking questions. This is very abbreviated - I was typing as they spoke. Any mistakes are mine. I just tried to grab the central fact from each bit of speech; they aren't as abrupt as the text below makes it look!
MM: Crunch week for PHB. Printer on Monday.
EN World questions!
How many spells per level in Basic?
MM: More at lower than higher, about 5 per level. At higher down to 3 or 4. A few more Wizards spells at first level to get iconic ones in (like Identify). Condensed list, focuses on straightforward iconic spells. Burning Hands, Charm Person, Identify, Mage Armor, MM, Sleep, Shield.
How are saving throws handled in the starter?
MM: Same as the playtest.
RT: Proficiencies, bonus to save. Fundamental rules, same in starter basic, full rules. A key pillar.
Any modular content in Basic?
MM: No, straightforward as possible. Simplest expression of D&D for newbies. Basic is the core of the game. DMG for creating campaigns, adding firearms, horror, alter mechanics to make it more like 4E (quicker rests, encounter powers)
RT: DMG aimed at the experienced part of the community. Creating and designing. Strongly themed campaigns.
What about backgrounds?
MM: Yep, they'll be there. First taste of character customization. Quick guidelines for creating backgrounds.
RT: Background is the area you're least likely to break when creating one.
MM: None give bonuses on fighting like a +1 to hit dragons. More tied into character's place in the world.
MM: A portion of the backgrounds. No multiclassing - optional rule in full game.
Conversion documents?
MM: Not part of basic. A separate thing we'll do.
Feats?
MM: No. Keeping simplest expression of the game possible. Full game is like "AD&D" as opposed to the "Basic" D&D.
RT: Friends over on a Saturday afternoon, you can just grab the basic rules and play a game with them.
So we use Basic rules + X,Y.Z?
MM: That's the way to think of it, yeah.
Anything other than magic items in basic rules from DMG?
MM: Stuff on how to run a game. DMG is the last book we're working on. It's done, just rearranging text a bit. It has classic magic items, magic weapons, armor, boots of elvenkind. Everything to manage and create an adventure. Downtime, mass combat.
Starter set adventure?
MM: Night's Dark Terror. One of the best D&D adventures ever made. UK module. Spiritual example. An adventure that gives a central place, a village, a central quest, enough room so the player has options, wilderness map and places to go, and for the DM flexible enough to start making own adventures and add to the map.
RT: Between giving DM enough story notes to propel the adventure forward, and a setting. Here's a place, adventures happen in it, not vice versa.
MM: Backgrounds and personality traits of the pregens are matched to the adventure. Goals, seeds.
(Both talk a lot about information flow, character motivations, directing sense of what to do next).
RT: First experience doesn't have to be "make a character". Don't necessarily know what you're doing. Pre-gen is another first experience, full fleshed out. Informed decisions later.
MM: So many stories of character creation being a barrier to entry. Experience of play first, then character generation second when you get what D&D is.
Race and class options in basic/starter?
MM: Cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard. Elf, dwarf, human, halfling. Levels 1-20 in Basic.
Tyranny of Dragons?
MM: Very episodic. Use level episode to match character levels.
RT: Higher level character can still play lower level adventures. Easier to bounce back and forth.
Spells. How do you decide which are in basic and starter?
MM: Really going for iconic. 4-5 per level so choosing isn't crazy. Plus hitting the different notes. Cleric Augery as 2nd level. Not just about blowing stuff up. Broad range.
RT: The basic rules are designed to give you an iconic experience. Touchpoints D&D players recognize. Common language of D&D.
Monsters? Playtests weren't always the hardest challenge. What are in starter/basic? Other Q's.
MM: Do you want me to just talk about monsters?
RT: Better monster math than at the end of the playtest. Better guidelines to determine how tough an encounter is. Lower monsters in higher numbers, and guidelines for that. Toughened up a few monsters, extra damage, more HP or AC. Needed a boost at 5th level like characters who get extra attack for fighters, 3rd level spells.
MM: You get a dragon. Iconic fantasy monsters. Chimera, centaurs, ord, ghosts, giants, mage, acolyte, warrior, mummies, ogres, skeletons, ochre jellies. Mundane animal appendix. Giant spiders.
RT: Not scratching the surface there.
Street dates? Starter 3rd in special stores, 15th elsewhere.
MM: Basic launch on the 3rd with character creation. Add more material as core rulebooks released.
Basic rules for high level play?
MM: It's all from the core rulebooks. So it's easy to include in the basic rules.
When can you launch a campaign?
MM: Homebrew probably August as you'll have the DMing stuff. But can start a campaign with the starter set. Get your legs under you.
(Lots about encounter balancing, guidelines, bugbear tougher).
RT: Build your adventure THEN use guidelines to tweak difficultly, not decide X encounter difficulty in advance. Better flow of the adventure.
MM: We don't want to tell you how you have to do it. But tools are there.
Specific setting?
MM: Basic not so much. Starter is Forgotten Realms. I would rather have that flavour than constantly reinvent the wheel. Not generic mush.
RT: Not inseparable from the Realms. Adaptable to most iconic settings.
MM: Yeah, it's high fantasy. If Dark Sun was default, adapting would be much harder! Or Spelljammer, etc. But don't have to know 100 pages of lore, we explain stuff in place where needed. PHB covers a bunch of pantheons. "War" matches to X, Y.
RT: PHB is pan-campaign setting. Constant references to Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, etc. Embraces multiverse, all campaign settings, ours and yours.
MM: And the look is more diverse. Important for us.
Larger or smaller groups?
MM: Basic rules will cover that, yep. Making stuff harder, easier. Adventure balance is more important than encounter balance. With less folks, you'll be slower to progress in the adventure, but it won't crash your game.
RT: Also supports groups with characters of different levels. All characters in a party can be different levels, and it helps you do that and judge things.
Character Sheets?
MM: First side is character, back is background. At 2nd level, e.g. it tells you what to change.
Most powerful basic rules monster?
MM: The dragon. Red. The game is Dungeons & Dragons.
RT: Ancient red in his/her lair is the toughest single monster (in the lair). It's nasty.
MM: In the Starter Set there is a green dragon, not in his lair. Guys on the cover are probably all toast just charging it.
Leveling up pacing?
MM: Leveling 1 and 2 in one session. The every other session leveling. 20th level in less than a year. D&D skews a lot younger than people think, fits with a college year. Plus playtest feedback said that. Most people in school or something, 30 year campaign is amazing, but not for everyone.
Most exciting thing in Basic?
MM: One-shot condensed version of the game. Nice to have consistence, clear understanding for DM of what characters can do. Simple dungeon crawl or pick-up game. Tabletop gaming has grown tremendously in last 5 years - board, card, minis, but not RPGs. 4 hours gaming and 5 minutes of play. This entry point for a tabletop gamer but not an RPGer, levels many barriers to entry. Free, super quick, dive in, crack open like a boardgame.
RT: 1-20 aspect. Easier than ever to bring in a new player. They can use basic rules and make a 9th level character and jump in.
MM: Less prep time.
RT: Lunch time here at the office.
MM: If super high lethality you don't spend an hour making a character to have it eaten by a mimic disguised as a toilet and have to do that again.
(Stuff about scheduling, more livestream games, Origins).
i
QuoteMM: You get a dragon. Iconic fantasy monsters. Chimera, centaurs, ord,
Anyone want to take a guess at 'ord'?
Quote from: jadrax;756107Anyone want to take a guess at 'ord'?
Orcs?
Could be orcs, have an image preview as a reward.
Spoiler
(http://www.enworld.org/newsimages/starter1a.jpg)
You could give me credit for assembling those notes over at TBP, you know. I'm not bashful. ;)
Quote from: LibraryLass;756117You could give me credit for assembling those notes over at TBP, you know. I'm not bashful. ;)
Oops!! I was in a rush because I have limited access to this computer and time is about up. I do apologize though.
Finally some better info.
Mostly good news. Some odd news.
Not sure of Im too keen on the apparent and minor emphasis on storytelling over role-playing. But too little to base on yet so could easily not be what it sounds like.
Quote from: Marleycat;756120Oops!! I was in a rush because I have limited access to this computer and time is about up. I do apologize though.
It's all good, no worries.
Really happy to see they've stopped worrying about encounter budgets and balance uber alles. Running away from some stuff, or sneaking back later with a plan, is now expected to be a normal occurrence, not broken design. I think we can expect to see more organic adventure material. And lots of random tables.
Quote from: LibraryLass;756124It's all good, no worries.
I gave you props in the thread. I didn't know you use a different handle over there. Or even posted here.:)
Quote from: Omega;756121Finally some better info.
Mostly good news. Some odd news.
Not sure of Im too keen on the apparent and minor emphasis on storytelling over role-playing. But too little to base on yet so could easily not be what it sounds like.
By storytelling they mean concerning yourself with what's happening in the game world, not player-authored narrative mechanics. Don't let the peculiar way forgists used the term 'storytelling' sully a perfectly good word.
Quote from: Marleycat;756126I gave you props in the thread. I didn't know you use a different handle over there. Or even posted here.:)
Ah, yeah, I didn't start using this handle until the semester of high school when I was working in the public library as a part time job and the school library for extra credit.
Quote from: Haffrung;756128By storytelling they mean concerning yourself with what's happening in the game world, not player-authored narrative mechanics. Don't let the peculiar way forgists used the term 'storytelling' sully a perfectly good word.
Thats what I'm guessing they mean. But the description of playing the pregens and tying into the story part felt a little odd. Dragonlance flashbacks. "Play the Characters! Live the Story!"
It seems laughably easy (to me) to insert AD&D style multi-classing (and dual-classing) rules (as well as differentiated XP tables) into this without breaking anything, and dropping the zero-level "at will blast" spells.
Oh and invert armor class.
And extricate it from FR and DL.
The Q&A is now up on YouTube, and it's not terrible if you are genuinely interested in their thinking behind the Starter and Basic products:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYsdjZcfHm4
QuoteStarter set adventure?
MM: Night's Dark Terror. One of the best D&D adventures ever made. UK module. Spiritual example. An adventure that gives a central place, a village, a central quest, enough room so the player has options, wilderness map and places to go, and for the DM flexible enough to start making own adventures and add to the map.
Well this is somewhat encouraging, insofar as
Night's Dark Terror is indeed one of the best adventures (really more of a mini-campaign) ever published. Not a pure sandbox, but "sandbox-ish" with a cool overarching structure and excellent conclusion.
QuoteLeveling up pacing?
MM: Leveling 1 and 2 in one session. The every other session leveling. 20th level in less than a year. D&D skews a lot younger than people think, fits with a college year. Plus playtest feedback said that. Most people in school or something, 30 year campaign is amazing, but not for everyone.
*sigh* Not a fan of this. But should be easy enough to tweak (slow down by ~50%).
Quote from: Akrasia;756326*sigh* Not a fan of this. But should be easy enough to tweak (slow down by ~50%).
In the video Mike states that the leveling was based on feedback from the younger D&D players who wanted to be able to start a campaign at the start of the school year and finish by the end of the school year. He also says that they did put in alternative leveling rates in the books for people that prefer more sessions per level.
Quote from: ptingler;756366In the video Mike states that the leveling was based on feedback from the younger D&D players who wanted to be able to start a campaign at the start of the school year and finish by the end of the school year. He also says that they did put in alternative leveling rates in the books for people that prefer more sessions per level.
Good catch! So it's like Pathfinder with their fast/medium/slow experience tracks. That was something I predicted would be an option.
Rate of advancement should be tailored to the groups preferences anyway.
I don't really have much use for a 'universal' xp gain rate. But I can see some system of slow, med, fast as a guideline.
Quote from: Bill;756843Rate of advancement should be tailored to the groups preferences anyway.
I don't really have much use for a 'universal' xp gain rate. But I can see some system of slow, med, fast as a guideline.
I'd be disappointed if the DMG doesn't include some guidelines on modifying the rate of level gain to suit different campaigns' purposes. It seems like a no-brainer for including in the sort of book they want it to be.
Quote from: Akrasia;756326*sigh* Not a fan of this. But should be easy enough to tweak (slow down by ~50%).
I'm not a fan of that speed of leveling either, but as you say, it can be tweaked easy enough.
Quote from: Bill;756843Rate of advancement should be tailored to the groups preferences anyway.
Absolutely.
Since I mostly run short or mini-campaigns, I believe in high mortality / fast advancement, but you don't need fast advancement with groups where mortality is rare and there is plenty of long term play opportunities.
Fitting a full-level campaign into a school year wouldn't be a problem if they had sensibly capped the level at 12. Unless WotC has some data that proves otherwise, they continue to design the game around a scale that makes no sense to the vast majority of groups, who never play past level 11 or 12.
Quote from: Haffrung;756928Fitting a full-level campaign into a school year wouldn't be a problem if they had sensibly capped the level at 12. Unless WotC has some data that proves otherwise, they continue to design the game around a scale that makes no sense to the vast majority of groups, who never play past level 11 or 12.
There is a reason for that beyond if the game breaks at level 10-15 like 2-3e. Lots of people just play 6 months or so before going on to something different or like what would happen with us we'd quit at 7/8 level in 2e because it took us a year or so to reach that and no way were we going to play another year just to maybe get up to level 9 if we got lucky before we got bored with the whole thing.
Give me 3-4 sessions at each level maximum preferably 2-3 at 1st-5th levels and move it along already.
While I personally would have liked to see a 12 level range, scaled so level 12 characters are not greater deities, the bounded accuracy/better thought out math is likely a huuuuge improvement, at least for me.
Quote from: Marleycat;756947Give me 3-4 sessions at each level maximum preferably 2-3 at 1st-5th levels and move it along already.
That's the pace I prefer as well.
For me, the pace of leveling is far behind other considerations. If the campaign isn't interesting then it wouldn't matter if there was a level gain every session. Boring is boring at any power level.
If the campaign is really fun then I don't care about being at each level for 10 or more sessions.
Quote from: Bill;757112While I personally would have liked to see a 12 level range, scaled so level 12 characters are not greater deities, the bounded accuracy/better thought out math is likely a huuuuge improvement, at least for me.
+1. We're already seeing HUGELY tough characters at level 9 in the last playtest. One of the problems is the scaling of HP's. Wish the dice capped at 9, a la B/X, with a fixed amount of gain after. We have a fighter with 120 hp's already, thanks to CON and one of his feats. I can't imagine going to level 20 with him. A slew of attacks, action surges, damage on a damned miss.
(looking forward to featless play when we reboot, and perhaps a cap at level 10).
Quote from: cranebump;757138(looking forward to featless play when we reboot, and perhaps a cap at level 10).
So what's the move penalty for a character without feat? :p
Quote from: cranebump;757138+1. We're already seeing HUGELY tough characters at level 9 in the last playtest. One of the problems is the scaling of HP's. Wish the dice capped at 9, a la B/X, with a fixed amount of gain after. We have a fighter with 120 hp's already, thanks to CON and one of his feats. I can't imagine going to level 20 with him. A slew of attacks, action surges, damage on a damned miss.
(looking forward to featless play when we reboot, and perhaps a cap at level 10).
Just curious;
A level 9 fighter with 120 hp would be possible in 1E dnd, but require luck in rolling hp.
So, how hard do monsters hit in 5E? If monsters do 2x or 3x the damage compared to 1E, that 120 hp may not bee as good as it looks at first.
Quote from: Bill;757140Just curious;
A level 9 fighter with 120 hp would be possible in 1E dnd, but require luck in rolling hp.
So, how hard do monsters hit in 5E? If monsters do 2x or 3x the damage compared to 1E, that 120 hp may not bee as good as it looks at first.
Its hard to say. Firstly it varies widely, and secondly apparently its been changed massively since the play test.
That said, the Clay Golem (The first 9HD creature in Dead in Thay) deals 2d10+5 Damage, or 2d10+10 if berserk.
Quote from: jadrax;757142Its hard to say. Firstly it varies widely, and secondly apparently its been changed massively since the play test.
That said, the Clay Golem (The first 9HD creature in Dead in Thay) deals 2d10+5 Damage, or 2d10+10 if berserk.
Hopefully the clay golem still gets to Haste itself.
Quote from: Bill;757145Hopefully the clay golem still gets to Haste itself.
It currently can, but it doesn't seem worth it. Hopefully it will get fixed. It can make two attacks a round though.
Quote from: jadrax;757148It currently can, but it doesn't seem worth it. Hopefully it will get fixed. It can make two attacks a round though.
If it can make two attacks that do 2d10+10, I would expect it to be able to haste itself and get 4 attacks to be a dangerous threat.
vs 120 hp fighters :)
Quote from: Bill;757352If it can make two attacks that do 2d10+10, I would expect it to be able to haste itself and get 4 attacks to be a dangerous threat.
vs 120 hp fighters :)
The REAL threat was that damage caused couldn't be cured except by a 17th or higher level cleric. Does anyone know if they had the balls to leave that in or can PCs "catch their breath" and recover the damage like all the rest?
Quote from: Exploderwizard;757355The REAL threat was that damage caused couldn't be cured except by a 17th or higher level cleric. Does anyone know if they had the balls to leave that in or can PCs "catch their breath" and recover the damage like all the rest?
Clay Golems in 1E were to be feared.
17th or higher LAWFUL GOOD cleric. That's hardcore.
If they did leave that it, I would expect it to be more lenient; such as, must heal naturally.
But it would take guts to include the more harsh version.
Hell, why not just have a note under clay golem that some are more dangerous and the damage they inflict on the living requires 'X' to heal.......