Quote from: jeff37923;617955but I think that Ptolus wins hands down.

When people say Monte Cook is a hack, I think of things like Ptolus.

I got it after most of Vornheim had been written just to make sure I hadn't reinvented the wheel and was glad to discover there was 0% overlap in the approach.

Ptolus is a thing you have to prep and remember in order to run in any satisfactory way and its best stuff is in details of all the social stuff going on between the specific NPCs and societies and in its sheer detailedness overall. And the fights are--so far as I can tell--90%  designed around "well my fire amulet cancels the +3 from that guy's water amulet" type stuff.

Congrats, that's quite the catch. I counted myself lucky, when I bought  my copy (number 244 outta that first signed batch of 1000) for around 80$.

It's a beautiful book, rich on flavor and background, bordering on the overwhelming. Maybe that's why, I have used my copy of Vornheim a lot more...

In the runup to Ptolus, I seem to remember Monte talking about how they tried to organize the book a little differently to make it easier to use. Did they succeed? What did they do differently?

One of the best, most detailed supplements in existence. Worth every penny, in my opinion. Congrats on the find.

Quote from: Garnfellow;617986In the runup to Ptolus, I seem to remember Monte talking about how they tried to organize the book a little differently to make it easier to use. Did they succeed? What did they do differently?

Things like cloth bookmarks in the book, all chapters are color coded and visible from the side of the book when it's closed, the margins around the main text contain information and precisions, including page numbers for particular terms, people and places scattered throughout the book whenever and wherever they are relevant, there's a system of icons for prices and qualities of establishments, maps clearly identified at the beginning of district chapters with legends sending you to the actual description and page number of each item set on the map.... and much, much more.

I've used the book in actual play. It's ACTUALLY usable for a book that size on the spot as you run the game. And that's an amazing feat to accomplish in itself, let me tell you.

Quote from: Garnfellow;617986In the runup to Ptolus, I seem to remember Monte talking about how they tried to organize the book a little differently to make it easier to use. Did they succeed? What did they do differently?

Yeah, they did. Benoist talked about some of the physical aspects of it (which combine to make the print version easier to use than the PDF), but the writing approach too is different. Monte has said how a big inspiration of his in writing it was travel guides, and it really shows. If you're familiar with the DK City Guides it's a lot like them - each city section starts out with the "highlights" of the area, and then zooms down in to the detail. Because this is an RPG product and not an actual travel book, the details include things like a set of stock NPCs you might meet in any part of town.

For me it was a real "bar raising" product. I can't imagine buying a detailed setting book that didn't at least match Ptolus in layout and structure. Of course, as most don't, that means that nine times out of ten now I prefer abbreivated setting information to detailed books.

Quote from: Grymbok;618067Monte has said how a big inspiration of his in writing it was travel guides, and it really shows.

An example of identifying how one medium — travel guides — is similar to certain parts of an RPG, and using "best practices" from that medium as an inspiration for our own.

I approve.

OK, the CD full of extra stuff that came with the Ptolus book is at least worth what I paid for it alone. Wow, this thing is chock full of stuff.

Quote from: jeff37923;619783OK, the CD full of extra stuff that came with the Ptolus book is at least worth what I paid for it alone. Wow, this thing is chock full of stuff.

Like what? I'm curious to know what Ptolis has that other supplements don't. Is it just more detail? Endless location lists? 50,000 NPCs?

Quote from: everloss;619788Like what? I'm curious to know what Ptolis has that other supplements don't. Is it just more detail? Endless location lists? 50,000 NPCs?

This is what's on the bonus CD (copy/pasting from an ENWorld thread)

Quote[Folder: Tools and Reference]
AE_Conversions
Expanded Ptolus Table of Contents -- (Expanded from 6 pages to 13)
Full Map Key
49 page searchable glossary and index.

[Folder: Ptolus Partners]
Ptolus Comic Issue #1
Ptolus Adventure Maps: Korben Trollone's Office from Skeleton Key
Minatures Sneak Preview (nothing much here -- marketing one-sheet)

[Folder: Bonus Products]
Free Player's Guide on PDF.
Chaositech
Banewarrens (I believe still 3.0)
Night of Dissolution

[Folder: Extras]
Bookmarks (printable on cardstock)
Saga of the Blade (24pg mini story from Game Trade Magazine)
This Week in Ptolus. (A set of mini background events for each week of a game year)
Handouts: Bonus Graphics (this is really cool. 14 pages of random player handouts)
Handouts: Printer_Friendly Sheets (40 pages of all kinds of stuff, mostly the printed inserts received with the book)
Campaign Journals (Part 1 and Part 2 - totalling 178 pages of adventure journals)

Chaositech, Banewarrens and Night of Dissolution were all originally sold as full products. Between the three of them that's about another 250 pages of content right there.

More generally Ptolus (the main book) is "just" a well detailed fantasy city with best-in-class layout so that the level of detail is not overwhelming. In addition to the core district by district guide you get a full history, details of religion in the city, a mini-campaign to get you started, a couple of high-level "dungeon" areas, guidance on how to construct campaigns in Ptolus, and probably much more I'm forgetting.

Between the mini-campaign, the two included PDF adventures and the high level dungeons in the core book it's possible to run a full 1-20 campaign in Ptolus with minimal effort. I know, because that's exactly what I did. Even having done that, there's more than enough setting material in the book to inspire another three or four full 1-20 campaigns.

Jeff,

In addition to the Ptolus book, there was a handy 'player's guide to Ptolus'.  They only cost $1 each when I bought them; I have six.  If you'd like I can give you 1 or 2.  If you run a Ptolus campaign, it'll be nice to introduce your players to the setting without scaring them away with the big book.  I know you're in Knoxville, so if you're interested, send me a message and I'll figure out how to drop them off to you.

PM sent.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;618074An example of identifying how one medium — travel guides — is similar to certain parts of an RPG, and using "best practices" from that medium as an inspiration for our own.

I approve.

I concur

I first realized this when I read the original 'Seattle Sourcebook' for Shadowrun. And this is the first bit of info about the design of Ptolus that has me intrigued enough to take a look at it.

I think I haven't liked anything Monte Cook has done since CoC D20.

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