I've wanted to pick this up since it came out, but it was just too pricey for me. I found a copy with all the maps and CD included in very good condition at the local McKay's for $50 and it is now mine. The book is a monster and I will be taking a while to read through it.
Success!
Be sure to tell us all about it. I'm all washed up on meta-talk.
Right on - enjoy! :)
Quote from: jeff37923;617610I've wanted to pick this up since it came out, but it was just too pricey for me. I found a copy with all the maps and CD included in very good condition at the local McKay's for $50 and it is now mine. The book is a monster and I will be taking a while to read through it.
Success!
Just saw some of the prices for that sucker.... nice score!
Ptolus is absolutely awesome.
I've eyeballed that bastard for a while. Congrats! I am envious.
Cool. I just made a deal to buy a used copy myself. Looking forward to the read, and debating how I'm going to convert it to an rpg I run! I'm considering 1st ed AD&D, or Runequest/BRP. How about you?
Quote from: RunningLaser;617621Just saw some of the prices for that sucker.... nice score!
I am normally opposed to paying more than forty bucks for an rpg. But this is one product where the price is worth it. I had heard bout it and been interested. Bought it off rpgnow. It literally hurt my fingers to make the purchase but very worth the price.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;617945I am normally opposed to paying more than forty bucks for an rpg. But this is one product where the price is worth it. I had heard bout it and been interested. Bought it off rpgnow. It literally hurt my fingers to make the purchase but very worth the price.
At 808 pages in PDF (and 670 + CD in print) I think it's fair to say that Ptolus gives more bang for the buck than the average $40 supplement.
Have only glanced through the pages so far, but one of the most intriguing parts that is the history section. So you not only get a city, but also the historical background of how that city came into being, that right there is campaign fodder as far as I am concerned.
As far as what game system would I use? Any in which I want a detailed medieval city. While designed for 3.x, it has enough extra non-system specific information to be used in other game systems.
The cover price is $120, and honestly I think it is worth that now that I have it in my hands. I'd kinda like to compare it to The World's Largest City by AEG and see how they both stack up to one another, but I think that Ptolus wins hands down.
Quote from: jeff37923;617955I'd kinda like to compare it to The World's Largest City by AEG and see how they both stack up to one another, but I think that Ptolus wins hands down.
I might be misremembering, but I don't think people had a lot of great things to say about World's Largest City.
Quote from: Grymbok;617946At 808 pages in PDF (and 670 + CD in print) I think it's fair to say that Ptolus gives more bang for the buck than the average $40 supplement.
I agree. There is a huge amount of content. And page for page, it is actually a good value. But it still hurts me to pay that much for a game.
Quote from: Baron;617939Cool. I just made a deal to buy a used copy myself. Looking forward to the read, and debating how I'm going to convert it to an rpg I run! I'm considering 1st ed AD&D, or Runequest/BRP. How about you?
I've run Ptolus in 3.5 as it was intended. You can read about it there: http://praemal.blogspot.com
I then basically rebuilt Ptolus 300 years in the past from the ground up using AD&D 1e as a base. You can read about the game (which is on hold at the moment) here on the RPG Site: http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=18731
To give some background before answering that question.
The best advice I could give at this point is for you to just read the book. See, Ptolus was actually the first setting ever devised for 3rd edition. It's with Ptolus that Monte Cook and the others (Sean Reynolds, Chris Perkins, Bruce Cordell etc) experimented with the late 2e rules and then playtested the 3rd ed rules in progress. It's also been played throughout 3rd ed's run. All that to say that Ptolus pretty much *is* 3rd edition D&D, and that D&D 3rd edition reflects some aspect of Ptolus in return (the picture of the innkeeper in the DMG with the "no spellcasting allowed" sign behind him? That came from Ptolus).
There's a synergy operating between the system and the setting at a level that actually benefits both in actual play. It's why switching from one game system to another to run the thing is risking to lose a lot of the feel of the setting in return - it's not impossible by any stretch, and lots of people have done it, but I think it does lose something in the exchange.
My advice is, if you can stand the 3.5 rules, run Ptolus with it at first, as intended. Or with Pathfinder rules with a few targeted additions at worse (like if you are using the Advanced classes of Pathfinder like the Alchemist and all that, it'd be good for you to place NPCs of 20th level of each new class in Ptolus as well, since Ptolus actually features one 20th level character of each class of the 3rd ed PHB). Then you'll get a sense of how Ptolus works. It'll be that much experience with the setting that you'll then be able to recycle into changing the game system to build the Ptolus you want out of the original product.
Ptolus is one of my "great white whales".
Really kick myself for not getting it when I could have pre-ordered it for less than $100.
Quote from: jeff37923;617955I'd kinda like to compare it to The World's Largest City by AEG and see how they both stack up to one another, but I think that Ptolus wins hands down.
I own both. WLC is really bland and generic (not just vanilla, but really bland and soulless), and seems to have actually plagiarized elements of Ptolus (like the Spire), sucking all it could out of them to turn the whole into the most nondescript, unoriginal setting you could imagine. The result is just lame. I'd advise you to buy ANY city setting (like Pavis, Ptolus, Laelith, City State of the Invincible Overlord... anything) before WLC. It's still useful when you want to plunder the setting for some ideas and buildings and whatnot, maybe, but compared to Ptolus it totally, unequivocally, completely sucks and doesn't hold even a casual inspection, let alone a complete reading of both.
Quote from: jeff37923;617955but I think that Ptolus wins hands down.
When people say Monte Cook is a hack, I think of things like Ptolus.
I got it after most of Vornheim had been written just to make sure I hadn't reinvented the wheel and was glad to discover there was 0% overlap in the approach.
Ptolus is a thing you have to prep and remember in order to run in any satisfactory way and its best stuff is in details of all the social stuff going on between the specific NPCs and societies and in its sheer detailedness overall. And the fights are--so far as I can tell--90% designed around "well my fire amulet cancels the +3 from that guy's water amulet" type stuff.
Congrats, that's quite the catch. I counted myself lucky, when I bought my copy (number 244 outta that first signed batch of 1000) for around 80$.
It's a beautiful book, rich on flavor and background, bordering on the overwhelming. Maybe that's why, I have used my copy of Vornheim a lot more...
(http://reservoirelves.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/ptolusvornheim2.jpg)
In the runup to Ptolus, I seem to remember Monte talking about how they tried to organize the book a little differently to make it easier to use. Did they succeed? What did they do differently?
One of the best, most detailed supplements in existence. Worth every penny, in my opinion. Congrats on the find.
Quote from: Garnfellow;617986In the runup to Ptolus, I seem to remember Monte talking about how they tried to organize the book a little differently to make it easier to use. Did they succeed? What did they do differently?
Things like cloth bookmarks in the book, all chapters are color coded and visible from the side of the book when it's closed, the margins around the main text contain information and precisions, including page numbers for particular terms, people and places scattered throughout the book whenever and wherever they are relevant, there's a system of icons for prices and qualities of establishments, maps clearly identified at the beginning of district chapters with legends sending you to the actual description and page number of each item set on the map.... and much, much more.
I've used the book in actual play. It's ACTUALLY usable for a book that size on the spot as you run the game. And that's an amazing feat to accomplish in itself, let me tell you.
Quote from: Garnfellow;617986In the runup to Ptolus, I seem to remember Monte talking about how they tried to organize the book a little differently to make it easier to use. Did they succeed? What did they do differently?
Yeah, they did. Benoist talked about some of the physical aspects of it (which combine to make the print version easier to use than the PDF), but the writing approach too is different. Monte has said how a big inspiration of his in writing it was travel guides, and it really shows. If you're familiar with the DK City Guides it's a lot like them - each city section starts out with the "highlights" of the area, and then zooms down in to the detail. Because this is an RPG product and not an actual travel book, the details include things like a set of stock NPCs you might meet in any part of town.
For me it was a real "bar raising" product. I can't imagine buying a detailed setting book that didn't at least match Ptolus in layout and structure. Of course, as most don't, that means that nine times out of ten now I prefer abbreivated setting information to detailed books.
Quote from: Grymbok;618067Monte has said how a big inspiration of his in writing it was travel guides, and it really shows.
An example of identifying how one medium — travel guides — is similar to certain parts of an RPG, and using "best practices" from that medium as an inspiration for our own.
I approve.
OK, the CD full of extra stuff that came with the Ptolus book is at least worth what I paid for it alone. Wow, this thing is chock full of stuff.
Quote from: jeff37923;619783OK, the CD full of extra stuff that came with the Ptolus book is at least worth what I paid for it alone. Wow, this thing is chock full of stuff.
Like what? I'm curious to know what Ptolis has that other supplements don't. Is it just more detail? Endless location lists? 50,000 NPCs?
Quote from: everloss;619788Like what? I'm curious to know what Ptolis has that other supplements don't. Is it just more detail? Endless location lists? 50,000 NPCs?
This is what's on the bonus CD (copy/pasting from an ENWorld thread)
Quote[Folder: Tools and Reference]
AE_Conversions
Expanded Ptolus Table of Contents -- (Expanded from 6 pages to 13)
Full Map Key
49 page searchable glossary and index.
[Folder: Ptolus Partners]
Ptolus Comic Issue #1
Ptolus Adventure Maps: Korben Trollone's Office from Skeleton Key
Minatures Sneak Preview (nothing much here -- marketing one-sheet)
[Folder: Bonus Products]
Free Player's Guide on PDF.
Chaositech
Banewarrens (I believe still 3.0)
Night of Dissolution
[Folder: Extras]
Bookmarks (printable on cardstock)
Saga of the Blade (24pg mini story from Game Trade Magazine)
This Week in Ptolus. (A set of mini background events for each week of a game year)
Handouts: Bonus Graphics (this is really cool. 14 pages of random player handouts)
Handouts: Printer_Friendly Sheets (40 pages of all kinds of stuff, mostly the printed inserts received with the book)
Campaign Journals (Part 1 and Part 2 - totalling 178 pages of adventure journals)
Chaositech, Banewarrens and Night of Dissolution were all originally sold as full products. Between the three of them that's about another 250 pages of content right there.
More generally Ptolus (the main book) is "just" a well detailed fantasy city with best-in-class layout so that the level of detail is not overwhelming. In addition to the core district by district guide you get a full history, details of religion in the city, a mini-campaign to get you started, a couple of high-level "dungeon" areas, guidance on how to construct campaigns in Ptolus, and probably much more I'm forgetting.
Between the mini-campaign, the two included PDF adventures and the high level dungeons in the core book it's possible to run a full 1-20 campaign in Ptolus with minimal effort. I know, because that's exactly what I did. Even having done that, there's more than enough setting material in the book to inspire another three or four full 1-20 campaigns.
Jeff,
In addition to the Ptolus book, there was a handy 'player's guide to Ptolus'. They only cost $1 each when I bought them; I have six. If you'd like I can give you 1 or 2. If you run a Ptolus campaign, it'll be nice to introduce your players to the setting without scaring them away with the big book. I know you're in Knoxville, so if you're interested, send me a message and I'll figure out how to drop them off to you.
PM sent.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;618074An example of identifying how one medium — travel guides — is similar to certain parts of an RPG, and using "best practices" from that medium as an inspiration for our own.
I approve.
I concur :) (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=21186&page=5)
I first realized this when I read the original 'Seattle Sourcebook' for Shadowrun. And this is the first bit of info about the design of Ptolus that has me intrigued enough to take a look at it.
I think I haven't liked anything Monte Cook has done since CoC D20.
RPGPundit
I'm not a fan of anyone who's messed with my favorite games.
That having been said, I played in a game set in Ptolus once, and finally found a used copy I could afford. I'm looking forward to using the thing for inspiration, and will eventually use my own customized version with 1st ed AD&D, or possibly a BRP variant such as Classic Fantasy or Openquest.
Quote from: RPGPundit;621115I think I haven't liked anything Monte Cook has done since CoC D20.
RPGPundit
Did you read Ptolus, or play a game in it?
Quote from: Mistwell;621128Did you read Ptolus, or play a game in it?
I read it... well, not all of it (thing is huge). But it just didn't do much for me.
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