TheRPGSite

I am sure there has been threads about this in the past but I have been stewing on a recent experience for a while now. A new gaming store has opened up in my area and while my first visits were fine several times (3) I have been very off put things that have gone on there. Twice I have walked in on employees loudly cursing and discussing crimes they had committed (though somehow I think they were blowing smoke), and on my last visit I was treated to a customer discussing the size of his penis with an employee.

The last issue was the final straw, I had my wife with me and somehow when I shot him a dirty look he took this as an invitation to move closer and speak louder. Now my wife will game at home with people she knows but on the whole she hates games stores and dislikes most gamers, so shit like this just makes things harder for me. Honestly it never fails every time I go to an FLGS I am treated to, poor hygiene, social ineptitude, poor employees, or gawking stares at my wife.

Is it just me? Is there something in the water here? Or is this a common thing? Honestly I drive almost an hour now to go to the only FLGS that I like, simply because the owner is a cool guy but even then I still see a lot of smelly, greasy, weird fuckers.

Any horror stories, thoughts?

Eh you sure you didn't walk into the local skinflicks emporium by accident?

I can honestly say in all my years of gaming I've only ever run across one catpiss man, and he was shown the door post haste. 99% of gamers in these parts are slightly weird but mostly perfectly normal people.

So maybe it's a local thing.

I've been to one good gamestore (in King of Prussia). Every other game store has had at least a few bad apples (or just general cluelessness, like the store playing hardcore punk with swearing every other word).

Well it gives me hope that it may just be a local thing, hell maybe I am just there at the wrong time. You know thinking about it could also be that many of the gamers in my area are teens, brains not fully developed and what not.

Strange how we run into catpissmen in real life, but no forum regulars ever fit into that category.

My best friend runs a game store, with his wife and two teenage kids helping him. Needless to say, maintaining a family-friendly environment is one of his highest priorities. This makes for good business, since there are a helluvalot of gamers with families of their own these days.

"Catpiss man" and other lowlifes are not welcome there. So yeah, not all game stores are like that.

I have heard a lot of stories like that.

However, most of the game stores I've been to generally are far far more reasonable than this--sure a few strange gamers about, but mostly family friendly enough (not perfect, but still about like most mom-and-pop shops.).

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;661867Strange how we run into catpissmen in real life, but no forum regulars ever fit into that category.

If you are a gamer and have not met any catpissmen, there's a high probability it's you.  :)

Quote from: danbuter;661857the store playing hardcore punk with swearing every other word).

Tell me the name of this store, this is where me and the girls wanna shop from now on.

Yeah I mean I don't mind the occasional incident, but it was non stop at that place. Even at the store I like there seems to be an abnormal amount of odd smelling weirdos. I wouldn't mind shopping at a game store that put its self out there as being a grown ups only kinda spot, or punk or metal themed as long a they were up front about what they were and not putting themselves out there as a family friendly place.

My other favorite was a place that shut down a year or two ago where the owner said anyone who played 2nd edition was a queer and somehow the conversation ended in him challenging me to a wrestling match, no joke.

Quote from: Arkansan;661894Yeah I mean I don't mind the occasional incident, but it was non stop at that place. Even at the store I like there seems to be an abnormal amount of odd smelling weirdos. I wouldn't mind shopping at a game store that put its self out there as being a grown ups only kinda spot, or punk or metal themed as long a they were up front about what they were and not putting themselves out there as a family friendly place.

My other favorite was a place that shut down a year or two ago where the owner said anyone who played 2nd edition was a queer and somehow the conversation ended in him challenging me to a wrestling match, no joke.

He was challenging you to a very heterosexual wrestling match.

Quote from: Bill;661964He was challenging you to a very heterosexual wrestling match.

Indeed! :eek:

Ya know that was the vibe I got too, I can say it was one of the oddest experiences I believe I will ever have at a gaming store.

Well, the man who runs a gaming shop and who I'm pals with keeps a tight ship, so no catpiss/customer - hurting things there.

And when his store has to close down, he'll wonder why.

I guess I'm lucky.  My local store, Rainy Day Games, is very well run.  Very professional.

I have seen two game stores in my city run by catpissmen (now closed down), but have seen more that are not run by catpissmen and yet allow catpissmen to be regular customers that hang out there because they spend money. I think that having a catpissman customer friendly environment is more damaging to the gaming community than not.

When I was in college, there was a game store that I used to frequent that had a huge table for miniatures battles.  Not just 40k stuff, but the Napoleonic tin soldier battles.  On Saturdays, there would be men in their 50s playing those miniatures battles, and every so often they'd yell at a kid who happened to come within five feet of the table to see what was going on.  Now, it's one thing if a kid was screwing around or the table was flimsy, but the thing was built like a tank; the owners would walk on top of it to change the fluorescent lights that hung above it.  And kids became scared to death of those guys, and stopped going to the store.

The place was located near a movie theater as well as a major highway, so you'd think that there wouldn't be much of a problem with traffic, but by the time I left college the place was empty save for the greybeards.  I heard the place closed down in the mid-90s, and I wasn't surprised.

As for catpiss men, I had no direct contact with any at a game store, but I knew of some women who wouldn't go to certain game stores because the clientele and clerks would spend time talking to their chests instead of themselves.  The game stores I go to these days don't have those issues, or at least any that I hear of.

Where I've seen idiotic behavior in the past was at the gaming table, especially back in college, when I was first exposed to the misogynist/creepy/assholish gamer.

Quote from: jeff37923;661994I have seen two game stores in my city run by catpissmen (now closed down), but have seen more that are not run by catpissmen and yet allow catpissmen to be regular customers that hang out there because they spend money. I think that having a catpissman customer friendly environment is more damaging to the gaming community than not.

Agreed.  People who don't order online will see the catpissmen at these places and say "THESE are the people who play these games?  Why the fuck would I want to be associated with THESE assholes?"

I have seen stores like the one you describe but also been to plenty that were great. I think the owner really sets the tone. Game stores are popular hangouts for gamers in high school and their early 20s, and if the store owner lets them run wild (whether they are patrons or employees) they will. This is true of any establishment that hires lots of young people. A few bad experiences like your has led my wife to be very cautious of game and comic stores. We still go. Her biggest problem are the gawkers, who in most cases I think don't realize what they are doing but it makes her uncomfortable. The bottom line is every store has its own atmosphere and you should find one that feels right for you.

However, if an employee is discussing his penis size and gets louder and closer when you indicate your discomfort, you ought to complain to the owner. He or she may not be aware and that sort of behavior is unacceptable in any business. The person should be fired.

Quote from: jeff37923;661994I have seen two game stores in my city run by catpissmen (now closed down), but have seen more that are not run by catpissmen and yet allow catpissmen to be regular customers that hang out there because they spend money. I think that having a catpissman customer friendly environment is more damaging to the gaming community than not.

This is most definitely true. Even at the store I prefer where the owner is a great guy there are just enough cat piss men or loud and obnoxious teens to be off putting to someone who might just walk in off the street. I understand that with a market that small one can't be too picky with who they let spend their money, but I often wonder how many people CPM and the like drive away. Besides my wife I have several friends that would game at my place but have no desire to be anywhere near a game store.

I just don't understand why people put up with that kind of thing, I have asked people not to come back to my table several times for reasons ranging from behavior to this fucker refuses to shower. I think the gaming community would be better in some respects if we were a bit less tolerant and a bit more confrontational.

A question for those who were around in the early days, are CPM and weirdos a thing in the gaming community at the time? If so how prevalent? I am sure like now it depended on the area, but I am curious as I took my step father to a FLGS once and he remarked that the scene was a lot different than it was 30 years ago when he was in college.

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;661867Strange how we run into catpissmen in real life, but no forum regulars ever fit into that category.

I'm allergic to cats, so it's not me.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;662024I'm allergic to cats, so it's not me.

Yeah, I don't like cats or the smells they produce, plus my wife is allergic, so no cats here either.

Quote from: Arkansan;662020A question for those who were around in the early days, are CPM and weirdos a thing in the gaming community at the time? If so how prevalent? I am sure like now it depended on the area, but I am curious as I took my step father to a FLGS once and he remarked that the scene was a lot different than it was 30 years ago when he was in college.

Back in the day, the "catpissmen" I came across were typically other students living in the dorms, who didn't pay any attention to hygiene.  They hardly ever went to class and spent most of their time doing things like:

- playing video games all day
- playing chess all day
- playing D&D all day
- hanging out at the arcade all the time
- heavily drinking every day
- etc ...

(I didn't really go to gaming stores at the time).

Quote from: danbuter;661857I've been to one good gamestore (in King of Prussia). Every other game store has had at least a few bad apples (or just general cluelessness, like the store playing hardcore punk with swearing every other word).

Sounds like my kind of store.

I haven't been in a gaming store in about fifteen years. Can't say as I miss them.

Quote from: Zak S;661891Tell me the name of this store, this is where me and the girls wanna shop from now on.

Nothing wrong with hardcore punk, but expecting all your customers to like it? Thats social retard behavior.

Quote from: Fiasco;662060Nothing wrong with hardcore punk, but expecting all your customers to like it? Thats social retard behavior.

Or it's saying you're not their customer.

Quote from: Arkansan;662020A question for those who were around in the early days, are CPM and weirdos a thing in the gaming community at the time? If so how prevalent? I am sure like now it depended on the area, but I am curious as I took my step father to a FLGS once and he remarked that the scene was a lot different than it was 30 years ago when he was in college.

To varying degrees, yes. The best stocked shop here in Orange County in the early 80s was Bob's Comics. The only person greasier, smellier and creepier than the owner was his wife, who make people nausesous to look at (seriously). It's long gone now, of course. The best run game store then and now is Brookhurst Hobbies, who have never had roleplaying stuff as the majority of their inventory (they've always been big on scale models, and despite a very large retail shop, do most of their business by mail order, or so I'm told). Very professional.

We did have a guy at Cal State Fullerton who nearly got us kicked out when he decided he couldn't drink water out of a water fountain like a human being, and started splashing it in to his mouth with his hand. He would leave, literally, several gallons of water on the floor. Stopped coming by shortly after that, when he realized nobody would allow him in a game. The most disturbing thing was that somebody spotted him in a local pizza place - as an employee. (Several years later, I was in Game Castle, talking to a friend about him. Neither of us mentioned his name. A complete stranger, that neither of us had ever seen before, come up and asked "Are you talking about a guy named XXXXX?" He was famous.)

Quote from: ggroy;662053Back in the day, the "catpissmen" I came across were typically other students living in the dorms, who didn't pay any attention to hygiene.  They hardly ever went to class and spent most of their time doing things like:

The only time it was really bad was at local gaming cons, and that only the 2nd or 3rd day. Mostly, it was kids too broke (or cheap) to get a room, and too obsessed with the games to go home at night. They'd play for 24+ hours straight, then sleep in their car (or under a table in the open gaming room) for a few hours.

Quote from: Fiasco;662060Nothing wrong with hardcore punk, but expecting all your customers to like it? Thats social retard behavior.

There's no music that doesn't annoy somebody. And no music annoys people, too, except they're not really sure why.

You know, it's kind of funny, but every time someone asks about gaming stores in the Bay Area on-line, I'll always volunteer Endgame and Black Diamond Games (BDG being my FLGS, at the time). It's because these are nicely run stores, that actively embrace being a community hub for players of all kinds (CCG, wargaming, RPG's, etc).

Invariably, I get people who ask why I never recommend two other local stores. Now one of the stores, I don't recommend because it's *mostly* a comic shop; it has one shelf of RPG stuff, and it's obviously not their prime product (I *do* recommend it, when people ask me where they can grab their comics from; it's a great comic shop). The other one, is my horror memory of a hole-in-the-wall shop of catpissmen. It was dark, cramped, and had three people in it that must have lived and slept in the store. I was not welcome from the moment I walked in, could not move around the store without having to ask someone to move their bulk repeatedly, and I have never returned since.

There's a reason, I only recommend *certain* places...

Quote from: Fiasco;662060Nothing wrong with hardcore punk, but expecting all your customers to like it? Thats social retard behavior.

I didn't see the part where he said he expected his customers to like it.

Stores can do very well and be very good for everyone around if they choose their audience.

Quote from: taustin;662075He was famous.

I believe the word you are looking for is infamous.

Quote from: taustin;662076The only time it was really bad was at local gaming cons, and that only the 2nd or 3rd day. Mostly, it was kids too broke (or cheap) to get a room, and too obsessed with the games to go home at night. They'd play for 24+ hours straight, then sleep in their car (or under a table in the open gaming room) for a few hours.

Or guys like my one buddy, who thought a 4-hour nap doesn't require a shower afterward. :huhsign:

Sometimes, I think Con's should post general rules of etiquette, and hygiene, throughout a Con.

Quote from: Ronin;662083I believe the word you are looking for is infamous.

"Dusty, Dusty, Dusty...infamous, is when you're MORE than famous. This man El Guapo is not just famous he's IN-famous!"

Quote from: Novastar;662078You know, it's kind of funny, but every time someone asks about gaming stores in the Bay Area on-line, I'll always volunteer Endgame and Black Diamond Games (BDG being my FLGS, at the time). It's because these are nicely run stores, that actively embrace being a community hub for players of all kinds (CCG, wargaming, RPG's, etc).

Invariably, I get people who ask why I never recommend two other local stores. Now one of the stores, I don't recommend because it's *mostly* a comic shop; it has one shelf of RPG stuff, and it's obviously not their prime product (I *do* recommend it, when people ask me where they can grab their comics from; it's a great comic shop). The other one, is my horror memory of a hole-in-the-wall shop of catpissmen. It was dark, cramped, and had three people in it that must have lived and slept in the store. I was not welcome from the moment I walked in, could not move around the store without having to ask someone to move their bulk repeatedly, and I have never returned since.

There's a reason, I only recommend *certain* places...

That place reminds me of a train store I used to go to.  They had a good amount of good quality N-gauge stuff for the time, so I tolerated them inside their basement hidey-hole.  (It literally was the basement of a 1940's era house.)  But they were all ancient and smelly, except for the lone "younger" guy, a Vietnam vet who would get all scary talking about how they didn't bomb those [insert racist invective] Vietnamese hard enough.  I was grateful they weren't a train and gun shop, because that one guy always felt like he was one wrong look away from going postal.

Quote from: Ronin;662083I believe the word you are looking for is infamous.

I will not dispute your correction. But mostly, he was just repulsive.

Quote from: Novastar;662084Sometimes, I think Con's should post general rules of etiquette, and hygiene, throughout a Con.

Short of baton weilding proctors, or firehoses at every door, good luck with that. When I was at GenCon, I was surprised there wasn't a prize for smelliest attendee.

Quote from: taustin;662101Short of baton weilding proctors, or firehoses at every door, good luck with that. When I was at GenCon, I was surprised there wasn't a prize for smelliest attendee.

The past few years when I went to GenCon it seemed that things were getting better.  Although I'll admit I'd only been there on Sundays, there was only one memorable person that I can recall, and to be honest her stench was the least of her problems.

I find cultivating tolerance is a good way to live one's life.  I do not always succeed, but even the odd folks often have some interesting or useful views of the world.

Quote from: Arkansan;661853Is it just me? Is there something in the water here? Or is this a common thing? Honestly I drive almost an hour now to go to the only FLGS that I like, simply because the owner is a cool guy but even then I still see a lot of smelly, greasy, weird fuckers.

Any horror stories, thoughts?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=370820096368800&set=pb.163379840446161.-2207520000.1371091849.&type=3&theater

The FLGSs I go to are each family-run.  Not run by 420 tattoo-covered types that share a bathroom with the porn lounge next door.

Quote from: Arkansan;661894My other favorite was a place that shut down a year or two ago where the owner said anyone who played 2nd edition was a queer and somehow the conversation ended in him challenging me to a wrestling match, no joke.

Stores near a nicer university seem to attract the better players also, rather than the degenerates who roam the streets named after presidents.

I discuss the size of my penis with weirdo nerds in game stores all the time :)

Family run doesn't mean shit in terms of quality. Most family run businesses are a bunch of fuck ups with codependent mental issues who could only be hired by their own parents.

And what is wrong with all of your wives? Did you mail order them from the Victorian era? The Downton Abbey Bride Catalog for Gamers? A dork talking to another dork about his dick is comedy gold.

And what's this panic about body odor? Is it a white collar thing? The human body is a stank factory, especially for some fatties in warm weather. I worked with a stinker years ago and he swore that he showered daily and I believed him because he never reeked in the morning and rarely in winter.

Back in the 80s, there were some stinkers at the conventions, but they are so incredibly few in the past two decades. "The March of the Catpissmen" is a RPG forum bogeyman. Ask yourself how many non-stinkers were at that infamous convention where you smelled one stinker?

I scrounge record shops and used book stores for fun and they have plenty of weirdos too (especially as employees) and the rare stinker, no more and no less than any game store I have been to in California (north, south and central).

Those guys who barely had enough social skills to play RPGs are now happily staying home playing consoles and WoW marinating in their own ass juice. We lost that segment of the hobby years ago (for beter or worse, they do have cash).

As for music in stores, I don't know. There is nothing that will please everyone and I agree that a store with a certain aesthetic visually and musically can aim for a certain clientele. But in the age of the iPod, doesn't everyone travel about with their own soundtrack of their choice? I haven't cared about store music since the Walkman was invented. In my world, all stores play Iron Maiden.

Maybe the fear of the "weirdo" is a middle class suburban thing. Go to a city and ride the bus or the subway. Meet the working class and the poor. Those guys and gals make lots of strange sounds and smells.

Quote from: Spinachcat;662116Family run doesn't mean shit in terms of quality. Most family run businesses are a bunch of fuck ups with codependent mental issues who could only be hired by their own parents.

And what is wrong with all of your wives? Did you mail order them from the Victorian era? The Downton Abbey Bride Catalog for Gamers? A dork talking to another dork about his dick is comedy gold.

And what's this panic about body odor? Is it a white collar thing? The human body is a stank factory, especially for some fatties in warm weather. I worked with a stinker years ago and he swore that he showered daily and I believed him because he never reeked in the morning and rarely in winter.

Back in the 80s, there were some stinkers at the conventions, but they are so incredibly few in the past two decades. "The March of the Catpissmen" is a RPG forum bogeyman. Ask yourself how many non-stinkers were at that infamous convention where you smelled one stinker?

I scrounge record shops and used book stores for fun and they have plenty of weirdos too (especially as employees) and the rare stinker, no more and no less than any game store I have been to in California (north, south and central).

Those guys who barely had enough social skills to play RPGs are now happily staying home playing consoles and WoW marinating in their own ass juice. We lost that segment of the hobby years ago (for beter or worse, they do have cash).

As for music in stores, I don't know. There is nothing that will please everyone and I agree that a store with a certain aesthetic visually and musically can aim for a certain clientele. But in the age of the iPod, doesn't everyone travel about with their own soundtrack of their choice? I haven't cared about store music since the Walkman was invented. In my world, all stores play Iron Maiden.

Maybe the fear of the "weirdo" is a middle class suburban thing. Go to a city and ride the bus or the subway. Meet the working class and the poor. Those guys and gals make lots of strange sounds and smells.

In other words, Spinachcat is the CPM in the room.

I don't think it is anything other than an expectation of basic social etiquette. I am not asking people to be perfect just not fucking obnoxious. I don't think it is a middle class suburban thing, I grew up piss poor in shitty neighborhoods and since I am broke and in school I am still there essentially, does not have a bearing on a basic sense of how to behave or take care of ones hygiene.

Quote from: Arkansan;662132I don't think it is anything other than an expectation of basic social etiquette. I am not asking people to be perfect just not fucking obnoxious. I don't think it is a middle class suburban thing, I grew up piss poor in shitty neighborhoods and since I am broke and in school I am still there essentially, does not have a bearing on a basic sense of how to behave or take care of ones hygiene.

I agree. Don't think any customer expects to listen to employees at a store discuss their penis sizes. Talking about that stuff in front of customers ought to get you fired (because your store will lose business over that behavior). And I also don't think women expecting to go into a store without being hounded or stared at in a creepy manner is all that unusual (or Victorian). My wife is perfectly fine and can tolerate bad behavior with a smile but like most women she doesn't like guys acting creepy around her. We are polite about. And we get that some don't realize what they are doing. But it still makes her uncomfortable. It isn't something you see at at every game store though.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;662111https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=370820096368800&set=pb.163379840446161.-2207520000.1371091849.&type=3&theater

The FLGSs I go to are each family-run.  Not run by 420 tattoo-covered types that share a bathroom with the porn lounge next door.

Ahahaha that is legend! But no, an excess of tattoos doesn't correlate with bad hygiene in my experience. It's probably another cultural thing, in these parts tattooed people are more likely to be peace loving hippies rather than ex-cons or bikers. Nothing against bikers either mind you, it costs a lot of money to maintain that lifestyle these days, half those guys are serious professionals in one field or another.

Quote from: The Traveller;662212Ahahaha that is legend! But no, an excess of tattoos doesn't correlate with bad hygiene in my experience. It's probably another cultural thing, in these parts tattooed people are more likely to be peace loving hippies rather than ex-cons or bikers. Nothing against bikers either mind you, it costs a lot of money to maintain that lifestyle these days, half those guys are serious professionals in one field or another.

Tattoos are becoming so common here that I don't think they are a good indication of what type of individual you are. Especially among younger people they are just accepted.

Quote from: Spinachcat;662116Maybe the fear of the "weirdo" is a middle class suburban thing. Go to a city and ride the bus or the subway. Meet the working class and the poor. Those guys and gals make lots of strange sounds and smells.

I know a lot of poor and working class people and all of them practice good hygeine and smell just fine. Working class people shower and wear deodorant just like anyone else. I used to work at a fish market and when I got off my shift, I stank to high heaven, but that wasn't a smell I was comfortable carrying around with me. I wouldn't go out and socialize until after I changed and had a shower. There are plenty of good reasons to stink (work, play, the gym, etc). But if you carry your BO proudly don't be surprised if people find it unpleasant.

Edit: just want to add, because you touched on it in your post, I understand some people may have conditions that produce body odor. Fungal infections and more serious illnesses, a propensity for sweat and skin bacteria, these can all make you a bit whiffy. I am not talking about folks who can't help it. I imagine it is rather tough for them. I am talking about the guy who clearly didn't shower or wash his clothes (dirty laundry has a distinct aroma). I am also not talking about shaming anyone or being mean. But I do think the better game stores communicate their expectations of hygeine and behavior to workers and regular customers who hang out in the store.

Same here, tattoos are very common, I don't think they really reflect on a person one way or another. I have no problem with how people choose to dress or decorate themselves, I only care how they behave, and wether or not I can smell them across the room.

In this retail market, how do stores run by fuck-ups even manage to say in business? I have a great local game store, the Sentry Box (http://www.sentrybox.com/). The owner is a smart businessman and normal guy. He hires geeks, but functional, polite geeks. Maybe these terrible, smelly stores are in economically depressed areas, where rents and labor are extremely cheap and a retail business can survive on a couple grand a month in income?

My preferred term is "mouth-breather" to reflect those assholes too lazy to even blow their nose when there are allergens in the air.

I don't mind dealing with them, I'll just tell them to fuck off if they're being annoying and rude. And I'll be polite if they offer me the same. But what really grinds my gears is when they reflect on our hobby.

I was at a used bookstore, browsing their limited used RPG books and there were two other people there. Some mutant mouth-breather who could barely contain his annoyance that other people were also looking at the RPG books and a kid about 11 or 12. The kid was just being a kid, mumbling to himself, looking at the artwork on the cover of the books and generally just entertaining himself while his parents or whatever were browsing.

The mouthbreather sighed and mumbled and gave the kid the stink-eye until he finally got the hint and wandered off to be somewhere else. Then mouthbreather plants himself in front of the bookshelf indian style, loudly said "Thank gawd that kid left. He was SO annoying." Then started pulling shit off the shelf to hold in his lap. He failed to notice he was now in MY way of browsing the shelf.

And yes, he smelled bad.

Honestly, I should have said something. Here was a young kid with his interest potentially piqued. Left on his own, he might have sought out more about the hobby, maybe later when he got older. I dunno. But more than likely now he thinks of RPGs and remembers the stinky asshole who passively aggressively shooed him away.

Retelling the story kinda makes me angry again and regretful I didn't say something to the mouthbreather. Little good it would have done be damned.

Yeah, if the mutant mouth-breather was doing that an adult, then I would probably just mind my own business and let the adult handle how they saw fit.  However, seeing an adult doing that to a kid I would probably would have told MMB to fuck off hard.  That shit just pisses me off to no end too.

Quote from: taustin;662075(Several years later, I was in Game Castle, talking to a friend about him.

I have a fondness for the Game Castle next to Cal State Fullerton.  I was born and raised in Anaheim, so that was the one gaming store I went to.  It was a little small and cramped toward the back (especially where they had the back issues of Dragon magazine), but I really liked it.  I've been back one time in recent memory, but they didn't really have anything I needed.  

Regarding discussing penis size, that seems strange.  If he wants to be convincing, he might as well pull it out.  It's bluffing if you're not willing to show your cards.  But either way, not something I'd want to be a part of.

In my experience, while there are plenty of 'normal' people at gaming stores, there's a higher concentration of 'undesireables' compared to other random places you might go.  The thing is, Game Stores are pretty specialized.  If there are some people I don't want anything to do with at McDonalds or Walgreens, I can go to Burger King or CVS.  A book store tends to be larger than a large number of game stores, so even if you have one there, the creep factor tends to be lower.  

As for whether it's a white suburban thing, I don't think so.  I've ridden plenty of public transportation, so I've had to deal with some uncomfortable crowding situations with some generally unpleasant people.  Given a choice, I would choose to avoid them.  In regards to visiting gaming stores, I do have a choice.

The best place to go with SO's and family in Berlin is Gamer's HQ, a wargame/minis store with only some RPGs. I like to think it is the reason why it is good.

Clean, educated bunch of people. My SO especially appreciated the clean rest rooms that had all necessary perks for all genders.

The rpg-mainly stores are all hives of scum and villainy.

When visiting the US, I noticed that the lowest rung of the ladder are the comic book stores. Cesspools 90% of the time! [full disclosure: I tried VA, CA, RI, MASS; ymmv ofc].

All the game stores in my area are centered largely around MtG and other CCGs, everything else is sort of an aside, with the exception of one store that focuses on Games Workshop stuff.

As to wether the quality of customer and employee has to do with the economics of the area I don't know. The offending game store in my area is in a upper scale shopping district, and I know the rent on their space ain't cheap. It just seems to have a large number of mouth breathers, incompetent employees and owners that are oblivious at best. The store I prefer is in a much older area and while having a few weirdos of its own the owner is a great guy so I don't mind as much, plus he hasn't fucked up my orders three times in a row like the other place.

Over the years I've known people offline who were privately into niche hobbies which attract weirdos (ie. catpissmen, mouth breathers, etc ...), but who also absolutely refuse to go and/or shop at offline places/events which cater to such niche hobbies.  (ie. Places like gaming stores, comic stores, music stores, niche bookstores, etc ... and niche hobby conventions of any kind).

The only time they ever buy anything related to their niche hobbies, is largely online or at a large bigbox store (ie. amazon, walmart, etc ...).

In some niches, it is possible to engage in the hobby without ever having to meet and/or interact with anybody else who is also into the same niche hobby.  (ie. Single player video games, Star Trek, Star Wars, occult literature, metal/punk music, science fiction, Forgotten Realms novels, etc ...).

Quote from: Haffrung;662221In this retail market, how do stores run by fuck-ups even manage to say in business?

Generally speaking, they don't, past when the owner's credit cards are maxed out.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;662231I have a fondness for the Game Castle next to Cal State Fullerton.  I was born and raised in Anaheim, so that was the one gaming store I went to.  It was a little small and cramped toward the back (especially where they had the back issues of Dragon magazine), but I really liked it.  I've been back one time in recent memory, but they didn't really have anything I needed.  

They've moved, couple of miles south on State College. Much bigger location (and I think they have a gaming area now).

Quote from: deadDMwalking;662231Regarding discussing penis size, that seems strange.  If he wants to be convincing, he might as well pull it out.  It's bluffing if you're not willing to show your cards.  But either way, not something I'd want to be a part of.

It's entirely possible he didn't whip it out because he had before.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;662231In my experience, while there are plenty of 'normal' people at gaming stores,

Note that Game Castle carried a lot of more mainstream stuff. Compare it to, say, The War House in Long Beach, and you see more what people here are talking about (though I've never run across the mouth breating mutants there, but I've only been there a few times). But it's small, cramped, packed to the ceiling with stuff. It's hard to walk through the place, but man, they have everything.

Quote from: Arkansan;662245All the game stores in my area are centered largely around MtG and other CCGs, everything else is sort of an aside, with the exception of one store that focuses on Games Workshop stuff.

As to wether the quality of customer and employee has to do with the economics of the area I don't know. The offending game store in my area is in a upper scale shopping district, and I know the rent on their space ain't cheap. It just seems to have a large number of mouth breathers, incompetent employees and owners that are oblivious at best. The store I prefer is in a much older area and while having a few weirdos of its own the owner is a great guy so I don't mind as much, plus he hasn't fucked up my orders three times in a row like the other place.

Gaming tends to attact kids, and kinds in richer areas tend to have less of an idea what money or manners are worth. So you get more idiot customers, and it's a lot harder for them to hire good employees.

And I didn't mean that Game Castle was the only game store I've been to EVER, just when I was a kid.

Subsequently, a Critical Hit games opened up in Anaheim Hills.  I started playing Warhammer there, but they eventually closed.  That was the second location for the owners.  I liked him, and I think it was a good environment.  They had another store in Bakersfield, so hopefully that's still doing well for them.

In Iowa City there was a gaming store called Iguana's.  Started out really good.  It had comics/Beanie babies downstairs, Gaming stuff upstairs.  Not much in the way of gaming space (they had some - but it was dominated by CCGs).  Definitely no Warhammer play space.  

It sort of went downhill after some point.  Some good people left and they changed locations.  They ended up with less gaming product and more 'random college crap'.  

Then there was another store in Coralville, IA, that was pretty good.  Plenty of play space, but it wasn't particularly fun to hang out at.  An ex-co-worker who was fired (and bitter) hung out there ALL THE TIME.

Now I live in Knoxville, and I've been to several game stores, but I'm pretty sure they're all gone (it's been a while) except the one in the Old City.  Not of much interest to me, anymore.  I'm not really buying anything new in RPGs, so I get most everything at a used bookstore (McCay's).

Quote from: taustin;662280Generally speaking, they don't, past when the owner's credit cards are maxed out.

Yep, there's also a lot of slackers who manage to convince their parents to fund the venture.

I think people underestimate how long you can keep a business open if you have enough credit and aren't concerned about accumulating debt (or blowing through a relatives' savings).

Good owners that fail have an exit strategy. They close up stores quickly when they reach a point they've lost enough money.

It's like a gambler at a casino - the smart guy has a preset limit and quits playing when he reaches it. A terrible gambler can continue gaming for the rest of the week.

Another thing to take into account is if that retail stores don't necessarily need to make a lot of money to keep going. The big expense is in getting the initial inventory - rent and utilities are pretty low for a small shop in a less than desirable location.

So I am not really an industry guy, but I had never heard that term 'catpissmen' before today.  I do understand it, and could use that term on a few people and places in my past.  But I am rather glad I haven't.  It's shameful to say something like that about someone behind their back, to me at least.

Though I am the socially awkward guy who tells people when they smell bad, are standing too close, are speaking too loud, etc.  So ymmv.

There was this one guy, though, that did drive me out of the store once.  He was a super-grok who had once yelled at me when I was a customer in his own store years ago.  He didn't remember me, but I still shudder at that experience.  Anyway, he drove me off by being an expert on everything I happened to glance at. It was like Google Glass that you never rewlly asked for - each shelf had a narrative ready, and somehow I kept tripping the trap.

Even then I dropped him a hint that enough was enough and I will come back some other time. I said it more for the store owner than anyone else...

Anyway, if we could communicate with better words, maybe we can have a positive impact.

Quote from: jgants;662289Yep, there's also a lot of slackers who manage to convince their parents to fund the venture.

Yeah, well, it gets them out of the basement and out from underfoot. Makes them somebody else's problem, so to speak.

Quote from: jgants;662289I think people underestimate how long you can keep a business open if you have enough credit and aren't concerned about accumulating debt (or blowing through a relatives' savings).

Indeed.

Quote from: jgants;662289Good owners that fail have an exit strategy. They close up stores quickly when they reach a point they've lost enough money.

Or when it's time to go back to school. (Met most of my current gaming friends though a game shop in Orange that lasted one summer, because it was a summer procject for a guy studying for his MBA. He actually made it proftiable by the end, but it was time to go back to school, so that was it.)

Quote from: jgants;662289It's like a gambler at a casino - the smart guy has a preset limit and quits playing when he reaches it. A terrible gambler can continue gaming for the rest of the week.

A smart gambler views gambling (especially in a casino) as a form of entertainment he pays for. A stupid gambler thinks he can win.

Quote from: jgants;662289Another thing to take into account is if that retail stores don't necessarily need to make a lot of money to keep going. The big expense is in getting the initial inventory - rent and utilities are pretty low for a small shop in a less than desirable location.

Depends on where you are. Dirt is so expensive around here that even a shitty location is still pretty expensive, especially zoned for retail.

Quote from: mcbobbo;662293So I am not really an industry guy, but I had never heard that term 'catpissmen' before today.  I do understand it, and could use that term on a few people and places in my past.  But I am rather glad I haven't.  It's shameful to say something like that about someone behind their back, to me at least.

To quote a friend, "I'd never talk about you behind your back. I want to see you reaction when I say it to your face."

Quote from: mcbobbo;662293There was this one guy, though, that did drive me out of the store once.  He was a super-grok who had once yelled at me when I was a customer in his own store years ago.  He didn't remember me, but I still shudder at that experience.  Anyway, he drove me off by being an expert on everything I happened to glance at. It was like Google Glass that you never rewlly asked for - each shelf had a narrative ready, and somehow I kept tripping the trap.

Even then I dropped him a hint that enough was enough and I will come back some other time. I said it more for the store owner than anyone else...

Anyway, if we could communicate with better words, maybe we can have a positive impact.

Some people are immune to hints. Which is to say, they do it on purpose. If "Go away and leave me alone" doesn't work, the store owner has grounds to toss him, and if he's at all competent, will do so. If that doesn't happen, it tells you a great deal about whether or not you want to continue to shop there. (I've worked in retail a long time, and I'm generally very understanding of the difficulties out in the trenches. But there are certain fundamentals I am absolutely unforgiving about.)

Quote from: mcbobbo;662293There was this one guy, though, that did drive me out of the store once.  He was a super-grok who had once yelled at me when I was a customer in his own store years ago.  He didn't remember me, but I still shudder at that experience.  Anyway, he drove me off by being an expert on everything I happened to glance at. It was like Google Glass that you never rewlly asked for - each shelf had a narrative ready, and somehow I kept tripping the trap.

Even then I dropped him a hint that enough was enough and I will come back some other time. I said it more for the store owner than anyone else...

Anyway, if we could communicate with better words, maybe we can have a positive impact.

In some niches unrelated to rpg games, I've come across individuals who are like this.

These are the individuals who can't shut up about how their particular line of business sucks these days (due to crappy economy, raining, changes, etc ...), and constantly talking about how things were better in the "good old days", etc ...  Some of their "war stories" were kinda amusing, albeit even if they were largely unsolicited.

To top it off, they're constantly asking me to do business with them (unsolicited), even when I have zero interest in what they have to offer and have made it clear to them previously.

From what I could tell on the outside, most of these particular individuals were in business niches which have been in freefall decline for a long time.

Quote from: Kaz;662226My preferred term is "mouth-breather" to reflect those assholes too lazy to even blow their nose when there are allergens in the air.

I don't mind dealing with them, I'll just tell them to fuck off if they're being annoying and rude. And I'll be polite if they offer me the same. But what really grinds my gears is when they reflect on our hobby.

I was at a used bookstore, browsing their limited used RPG books and there were two other people there. Some mutant mouth-breather who could barely contain his annoyance that other people were also looking at the RPG books and a kid about 11 or 12. The kid was just being a kid, mumbling to himself, looking at the artwork on the cover of the books and generally just entertaining himself while his parents or whatever were browsing.

The mouthbreather sighed and mumbled and gave the kid the stink-eye until he finally got the hint and wandered off to be somewhere else. Then mouthbreather plants himself in front of the bookshelf indian style, loudly said "Thank gawd that kid left. He was SO annoying." Then started pulling shit off the shelf to hold in his lap. He failed to notice he was now in MY way of browsing the shelf.

I've found that sort of behaviour also very common among fat single middle-aged women.

At bookstores, how common is it for the mouth breathers, catpissmen, etc ... to hang out in sections which are not related to science fiction, fantasy, comics, graphic novels, games, etc ... ?

Quote from: ggroy;662356At bookstores, how common is it for the mouth breathers, catpissmen, etc ... to hang out in sections which are not related to science fiction, fantasy, comics, graphic novels, games, etc ... ?

you can find them in the photography section looking at books on "glamour photography" as well...

Outside of bookstores, gaming stores, comic stores, etc ... the only other places I've come across mouth breathers, catpissmen, etc ... are places like thrift shops, flea markets, discount stores, etc ...

Though these tend to be a non-geek/non-nerd variety of mouth breathers, catpissmen, etc ...  From what I can tell, some seem to be individuals with a compulsive "hoarding" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding) type disorder, where they just buy tons of inexpensive junk for the sake of buying such stuff.

Quote from: Zak S;661891Tell me the name of this store, this is where me and the girls wanna shop from now on.

:D

It better have some sexy life-size Elvira posters up, and bongs for sale as well!

Have any of you seen the AMC series "Comic Book Men"?
It deals with Kevin Smith's "Secret Stash" comic store in NJ.
Bryan Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Johnson_(filmmaker)) is very funny, but he is the resident catpissman for the Stash.

I have been meaning to catch it but I have to go to my grandparents to watch cable, so it just never works out. Television at my house consists of whatever's in the DVD player.

I caught the first season (6 episodes) on Netflix streaming.

Quote from: Haffrung;662221Maybe these terrible, smelly stores are in economically depressed areas, where rents and labor are extremely cheap and a retail business can survive on a couple grand a month in income?

I don't know; I live in a fairly wealthy bedroom community town right next to an economically depressed working class city; I don't see any correlation between economic status and how awful the stores are around here.

I do see a fair amount of correlation between awful hobby stores and the owner's lack of desire or ability to run the store like a business, as opposed to some other personal or ideological reason.

Quote from: Arkansan;661853I am sure there has been threads about this in the past but I have been stewing on a recent experience for a while now. A new gaming store has opened up in my area and while my first visits were fine several times (3) I have been very off put things that have gone on there. Twice I have walked in on employees loudly cursing and discussing crimes they had committed (though somehow I think they were blowing smoke), and on my last visit I was treated to a customer discussing the size of his penis with an employee.

The last issue was the final straw, I had my wife with me and somehow when I shot him a dirty look he took this as an invitation to move closer and speak louder. Now my wife will game at home with people she knows but on the whole she hates games stores and dislikes most gamers, so shit like this just makes things harder for me. Honestly it never fails every time I go to an FLGS I am treated to, poor hygiene, social ineptitude, poor employees, or gawking stares at my wife.

Is it just me? Is there something in the water here? Or is this a common thing? Honestly I drive almost an hour now to go to the only FLGS that I like, simply because the owner is a cool guy but even then I still see a lot of smelly, greasy, weird fuckers.

Any horror stories, thoughts?

Wow you gotta be around Chicago some place right?

Nope, Little Rock metro area.

Quote from: flyingcircus;662435Wow you gotta be around Chicago some place right?

It's too bad he's not, Mt. Prospect has one of the coolest gaming stores around (I always visit it when I'm in the Chicago area).

Quote from: Bill;661964He was challenging you to a very heterosexual wrestling match.

I had  a guy on YouTube once comment to me on one of my videos. he said, "I really want to fight you." I am sure that he did in fact want to be in close physical contact with me. But 'fighting' was not his end game.

Why are people pussyfooting around here and not actually naming-names of those stores that are shit?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;662683Why are people pussyfooting around here and not actually naming-names of those stores that are shit?

RPGPundit

In my case, The Tin Soldier has been closed for about 15 years.  I miss their stock of games, but not the asshats who used to play there.

I dont remember the names of the stores I only enter once, usually.

Hell I don't mind naming. Game Goblins in Little Rock has been the cite of all of complaints. The owners seem like nice enough guys but the place is not very well run, plus you know the penis incident.

If your in the metro area Imagine Games in Sherwood is my prefered place to shop.

Quote from: Arkansan;662710plus you know the penis incident.

Oddly, "The Penis Incident" was what I was going to call my autobiography. Well, either that or "Abomination Through Dreadnaught" (there's an in-joke for FASERIP fans ;))

Quote from: Arkansan;661858Well it gives me hope that it may just be a local thing, hell maybe I am just there at the wrong time. You know thinking about it could also be that many of the gamers in my area are teens, brains not fully developed and what not.

At My Store, during MY shifts there is NO Cussing or Swearing. (Okay the store I work at - technically not 'mine'/I don't own it...but I'm kind of territorial about places I like or work at)

 The store is inside a mall that is family friendly.

I want it to STAY that way during my shifts.

MY manager from what I can tell is pretty much the same way during his shifts.

Maybe you should seek out the owner or real manager of that New store and explain to them that in the long run they make more money by keeping it friendly to ALL ages.

-Ed C.

I dont have any problem with a store not being "family friendly"

I dont have any problem with blacklights, or punk/goth/alternative music being played, or even, come to think about it, people cussing.

What I want from a game store is three things: selection, a substantial used games section, and to be able to take my purchases to the counter, pay, and leave the store without any of my time being wasted. I don't want to have a conversation with the guy behind the counter, I don't care how anyone else's day is going, and more than anything, I dont want to hear their opinion on anything I'm buying.

Give me that, and you can talk about schlongs all you want.


P.S. Oh, and I also prefer to not to have to smell anything either. Not a dealbreaker, but it will make me spend less time in a store.

P.P.S. frell "family friendly". Kid friendly I'm okay with. What is the absolute worste to me, even more than any catpissmen or  mouthbreathers, or the most annoying Mr. GC clone, are mothers. If a mother is in a store, be it a game store, or a comic shop, there is, in my experience, a 99.9% chance she's going to say something that pisses me off.

Quote from: TristramEvans;662735I don't want to have a conversation with the guy behind the counter, I don't care how anyone else's day is going, and more than anything, I dont want to hear their opinion on anything I'm buying.

Outside of gaming stores, the worst places I've come across with individuals who constantly talk and give unsolicited opinions/advice on anything and everything, are local watering holes with a long time regular clientele.  When I worked as a bartender, I constantly had to deal with numerous such talkative opinionated regulars.  (They get more and more annoying, with every drink they consume).

The second worst places for this sort of thing, seem to be the few remaining mom-and-pop used book stores, video stores, record stores, etc ... in town.  Typically they're run by hardcore aficionados types with very strong opinions on everything.  (This is the main reason why I do most of my shopping online these days for stuff like books, music, etc ...  Largely to avoid interacting with such annoying jabberjaws running such stores, and lower prices online).

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;662038Yeah, I don't like cats or the smells they produce, plus my wife is allergic, so no cats here either.

Well, I have 3 cats and I am a sexy devil, so no, cats ain't the problem :D

Also, the catpissmen seem to be more of an American phenomenon. In 28 years I don't think I've met more than half a dozen. When you go to a con, though, you will see plenty of nerdy people and more heavy - metal t-shirts than you can shake an stick at. But 99% of gamers around here are normal regarding hygiene and BO.

Quote from: RPGPundit;662683Why are people pussyfooting around here and not actually naming-names of those stores that are shit?

RPGPundit

The two worst ones in my area were The Round Table and the Knoxville Gaming Bureau, both went out of business.

Quote from: Imperator;662758Well, I have 3 cats and I am a sexy devil, so no, cats ain't the problem :D

I only have two cats, so am just demonically sexy. :p
(Note to self - Get More Cats!)

Quote from: Imperator;662758Also, the catpissmen seem to be more of an American phenomenon. In 28 years I don't think I've met more than half a dozen. When you go to a con, though, you will see plenty of nerdy people and more heavy - metal t-shirts than you can shake an stick at. But 99% of gamers around here are normal regarding hygiene and BO.

I would say that the catpissman identifier encompasses more than hygiene for me, it also includes behavior.

I just got back from running two games at Free RPG Day and there was one guy walking around talking to himself and repeating conversations from other people he hovered around. He'd also come up to people and hold either his finger or his fist near them with an idiot grin on his face in an annoying game of I'm Not Touching You. He was a catpissman in my estimation due to his behavior. There were rambunctious kids one table over loudly having a Yu-Gi-Oh tournament who acted more mature than this loon.

I dunno he sounds more metally challenged to me than your avarage cpm, the repetitive conversations and such dont seem anywhere near the sort of thing cpm's do also you didnt mention anything about him demonising a game system to all and sundry which seems off.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;662806I dunno he sounds more metally challenged to me than your avarage cpm, the repetitive conversations and such dont seem anywhere near the sort of thing cpm's do also you didnt mention anything about him demonising a game system to all and sundry which seems off.

I get what you are saying here, but I have a hard time accepting the mentally challenged excuse. I believe that if a person is smart enough to play a RPG, then that person is smart enough to be aware of their social environment and behave accordingly. It seems like more often, the bad behavior is just accepted out of fear of ostracizing the person.

See, this guy's behavior would not have been tolerated at a pub or a bar, so why should it be tolerated in a game store?

There is a regular at my favorite bar who has Asperger's, real Asperger's and not the fake crap you see on the Internet. He makes mistakes with his behavior at times that are socially unacceptable, but when he sees his mistake, he tries to correct his offending behavior. He makes an effort to fit in with people. The rest of us regulars cut him a lot of slack because of this since he is trying the best he can.

For someone to be mentally challenged and behave poorly without making an effort to correct that behavior, doesn't speak highly to me of the person. I understand that it can be incredibly difficult, but at least make an effort. Otherwise, you are demonstrating that you do not care to alienate those around you.

I used to go to a store in the Pacific Northwest that has long since closed. There was a man there, morbidly obese, Caucasian, with yellow skin from lack of bathing. He smelled like a 3-day old corpse. Literally. I worked for a newspaper as a photographer - I've been to nasty places where bodies had been left for some time - he smelled like a rotting human body.

Once he was accepted (he rented the basement of the gamestore owner's house), I stopped going to gamestores. I could not walk in, even if he was not currently in the store, without retching.

Quote from: Killfuck Soulshitter;661867Strange how we run into catpissmen in real life, but no forum regulars ever fit into that category.

They post on Tangency Open.

Quote from: Imperator;662758Also, the catpissmen seem to be more of an American phenomenon. In 28 years I don't think I've met more than half a dozen. When you go to a con, though, you will see plenty of nerdy people and more heavy - metal t-shirts than you can shake an stick at. But 99% of gamers around here are normal regarding hygiene and BO.

Let's not chuck around any misleading correlations now! [/hygienic metal fan]

More generally, wonder how common catpissmen are in the general population, including various non-geek/non-nerd varieties of catpissmen (but excluding homeless people).

Honestly, the last time that I personally encountered a Catpissman was back in 1986 at the Last Grenadier hobby shop in Burbank, CA.  Since then, I have met many unkempt gamers in the sense that they didn't groom their hair (head and facial) and that they didn't have a strong sense of fashion.  However, in all honestly, I fit in the category as well when it comes to fashion sense; I'm like 20-years behind in my wardrobe. LOL! ;) :D

Quote from: Koltar;662729At My Store, during MY shifts there is NO Cussing or Swearing. (Okay the store I work at - technically not 'mine'/I don't own it...but I'm kind of territorial about places I like or work at)

 The store is inside a mall that is family friendly.

I want it to STAY that way during my shifts.

MY manager from what I can tell is pretty much the same way during his shifts.

Maybe you should seek out the owner or real manager of that New store and explain to them that in the long run they make more money by keeping it friendly to ALL ages.

-Ed C.

I'd forgotten that you worked at a gaming store, actually. I was wondering, how did Free RPG Day play out at your place? Did you participate? Was there any of the "Censorship" that was reported elsewhere (of the LotFP contribution, mainly)?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;662983I'd forgotten that you worked at a gaming store, actually. I was wondering, how did Free RPG Day play out at your place? Did you participate? Was there any of the "Censorship" that was reported elsewhere (of the LotFP contribution, mainly)?

RPGPundit

Sadly , our owners did not have the funds to participate in 'Free RPG Day' this year.

FlyerFan kind of covered the stores locally that DID participate.
(Tho, I'm happy that we're still in business...in general)

 The fact that it took place the same weekend as ORIGINS may have also been a factor.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;663014Sadly , our owners did not have the funds to participate in 'Free RPG Day' this year.

FlyerFan kind of covered the stores locally that DID participate.
(Tho, I'm happy that we're still in business...in general)

 The fact that it took place the same weekend as ORIGINS may have also been a factor.

- Ed C.

Hmm, I covered three of them.  I missed Art of War and the place in Northern Kentucky, but I was wiped out travelling all over town.

I seriously think Origins weekend siphoned off some of the players.  It might not be as big a deal if you're say, 3+ hours away from Columbus, but we're about 1.5 - 2.0 hours away, and that has an impact.

Quote from: Koltar;663014Sadly , our owners did not have the funds to participate in 'Free RPG Day' this year.

FlyerFan kind of covered the stores locally that DID participate.
(Tho, I'm happy that we're still in business...in general)

 The fact that it took place the same weekend as ORIGINS may have also been a factor.

- Ed C.

No, Origins was not a factor. The upper management of your game store chain have stated that they will never participate in Free RPG Day because they believe that it is a loss-leader and will not result in enough additional sales of their part-owners products, Studio 2 Publishing.

Quote from: jeff37923;663024No, Origins was not a factor. The upper management of your game store chain have stated that they will never participate in Free RPG Day because they believe that it is a loss-leader and will not result in enough additional sales of their part-owners products, Studio 2 Publishing.

Huh. Where did you hear this? And is it just the store, or has Studio 2 come out against free-RPG-day?

Quote from: jeff37923;662846There is a regular at my favorite bar who has Asperger's, real Asperger's and not the fake crap you see on the Internet. He makes mistakes with his behavior at times that are socially unacceptable, but when he sees his mistake, he tries to correct his offending behavior. He makes an effort to fit in with people. The rest of us regulars cut him a lot of slack because of this since he is trying the best he can.

For someone to be mentally challenged and behave poorly without making an effort to correct that behavior, doesn't speak highly to me of the person. I understand that it can be incredibly difficult, but at least make an effort. Otherwise, you are demonstrating that you do not care to alienate those around you.

Yeah, the easiest way to tell a real high-functioning autistic from a self-diagnosed douchebag is if they use it is an excuse or motivation.

Quote from: RPGPundit;663349Huh. Where did you hear this? And is it just the store, or has Studio 2 come out against free-RPG-day?

No, just didn't choose to participate.

To ease some confusion - Jeff is on my ignore list - so I didn't see what he posted until he was quoted by you.

- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPundit;663349Huh. Where did you hear this? And is it just the store, or has Studio 2 come out against free-RPG-day?

I used to work for the same business and have kept in contact with employees still working there. It owned Gameboard and Gameboard Distributing before getting rid of them. It currently owns the Nord's and Sci-Fi City chains of stores, which are partially owned by Studio 2 Publishing. Same group of businessmen.

I haven't heard that Studio 2 Publishing is against Free RPG Day, but they find no advantage in participating in it. They think it is a loss leader.

Quote from: RPGPundit;662983I'd forgotten that you worked at a gaming store, actually. I was wondering, how did Free RPG Day play out at your place? Did you participate? Was there any of the "Censorship" that was reported elsewhere (of the LotFP contribution, mainly)?

RPGPundit

Last year Half Price Books participated, in as much as they offered their RPGs for an additional percentage off. Nothing out of either store here this year. And neither of the local shops took part (one is primarily a gaming shop, though).

After driving around town all day, I started to wonder if Free RPG Day is dead in the water.

Quote from: TristramEvans;663420Yeah, the easiest way to tell a real high-functioning autistic from a self-diagnosed douchebag is if they use it is an excuse or motivation.

One small point about the genuinely autistic, and I'll let it go - to them, you're the weird one.

That's how you tell.

Quote from: jeff37923;663500They think it is a loss leader.

You keep saying this term like it has a negative definition in and of itself.

Free RPG Day is by definition a loss leader. A loss leader isn't negative, its a marketing technique. Maybe you should like, look up what the term means...

(Also, I wasn't too interested in any of the Free RPG Day stuff, but I did pick up the Edge of the Empire adventure for my brother since he is really into that system.)

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663618You keep saying this term like it has a negative definition in and of itself.

Free RPG Day is by definition a loss leader. A loss leader isn't negative, its a marketing technique. Maybe you should like, look up what the term means...

Indeed. All advertising is loss leader. Except the kind that's free on the internet, and that's usually a loss causer, because there's no good way to be famous on the internet.

I've avoided a certain part of a store due to the squeaky voices and annoying laughing originating from it but never a whole store.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663618You keep saying this term like it has a negative definition in and of itself.

To the owners of Nord's Games and Sci-Fi City, along with their partners at Studio 2 Publishing, it does.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663618Free RPG Day is by definition a loss leader. A loss leader isn't negative, its a marketing technique. Maybe you should like, look up what the term means...

Maybe you are just being a douchebag here in assuming that I do not know what the term means. Remember, I participated in Free RPG Day and support the effort, I am explaining why a chain of LGS does not. Get with the program, genius.

Quote from: taustin;663632All advertising is loss leader. Except the kind that's free on the internet, and that's usually a loss causer, because there's no good way to be famous on the internet.

Alas, if only I had space for another quote in my sig.

Quote from: jeff37923;663773Maybe you are just being a douchebag here in assuming that I do not know what the term means. Remember, I participated in Free RPG Day and support the effort, I am explaining why a chain of LGS does not. Get with the program, genius.

No, your words didn't support that you knew what the term meant.

Let me walk it through this so maybe you can catch on:

Quote from: jeff37923;663024No, Origins was not a factor. The upper management of your game store chain have stated that they will never participate in Free RPG Day because they believe that it is a loss-leader and will not result in enough additional sales of their part-owners products, Studio 2 Publishing.

Context does not support that you know what it means. You say that the store sees it as a loss leader, you then go on to actually say something that makes SENSE, but your use of the word loss leader is silly because you might as well say "They think free rpg day is an event" as a reason they don't participate. Its not a false belief and its 100% true that its an event, it has no bearing on the reason they wouldn't do it.

Quote from: jeff37923;663500I haven't heard that Studio 2 Publishing is against Free RPG Day, but they find no advantage in participating in it. They think it is a loss leader.

Once again, you use the term loss leader as it is something they believe it is, and therefore that is why they don't participate. THE CONTEXT MAKES THE FACT THAT THEY THINK ITS A LOSS LEADER SOUND SIGNIFICANT RATHER THAN JUST BEING FACTUALLY CORRECT.

So how about if you knew what the term means, you actually structure your posts in ways that don't make it sound like you don't. Or are we going to play "you're a douchebag because you point out that I might not be as smart as I think I am".

Suck it up. You weren't explaining yourself very well and it can easily lead to misunderstandings. I'll accept that maybe you are aware of what the term means, but I'm also going to tell you that you weren't using it in a way that sounded like you did. Deal with it.

Also, absolutely NONE OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU SUPPORT FREE RPG DAY OR NOT, so I have no idea where that came from.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663918Whargarbl.

You know, if you paid attention to what I wrote and didn't listen to the voices in your head, you might be able to understand things easier.

It may also help if you weren't busy trying to be a douchebag about it.

Whatever, man.

You communicated perfectly. Yep.

You guys seem so quick to resort to insults the moment someone thinks you might just might be saying you are wrong about something. Notice that I didn't resort to insults in either of the above posts. I actually supported you know, the argument I was making.

I guess that might just be a bit too complex for you, so maybe I'll just resort to your level: You are a dumb dumb doodoo head.

Man that was so much more mature than defending my actual point, I'm glad this forum isn't filled like catpissmen like that poor place rpg.net.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663946Man that was so much more mature than defending my actual point, I'm glad this forum isn't filled like catpissmen like that poor place rpg.net.

Don't take it personally.  This is a PvP server, if you will.  Sometimes you just get attacked because it's allowed. As if for practice.  Or worse, dogpiled.

If it matters, the rest of us can see the posts and judge who makes the best points whether or not those having their slapfight ever surrender.

Quote from: mcbobbo;663958Don't take it personally.  This is a PvP server, if you will.  Sometimes you just get attacked because it's allowed. As if for practice.  Or worse, dogpiled.

If it matters, the rest of us can see the posts and judge who makes the best points whether or not those having their slapfight ever surrender.

If it matters, you need to get off the forums, because you're turning into Ron Paul lookalike.

(http://images.wikia.com/klocuch/pl/images/3/38/Internet-serious-business.jpg)

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663946Whatever, man.

You communicated perfectly. Yep.

You guys seem so quick to resort to insults the moment someone thinks you might just might be saying you are wrong about something. Notice that I didn't resort to insults in either of the above posts. I actually supported you know, the argument I was making.

I guess that might just be a bit too complex for you, so maybe I'll just resort to your level: You are a dumb dumb doodoo head.

Man that was so much more mature than defending my actual point, I'm glad this forum isn't filled like catpissmen like that poor place rpg.net.

OK, let us look at what you posted:

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663618You keep saying this term like it has a negative definition in and of itself.

Free RPG Day is by definition a loss leader. A loss leader isn't negative, its a marketing technique. Maybe you should like, look up what the term means...
(Also, I wasn't too interested in any of the Free RPG Day stuff, but I did pick up the Edge of the Empire adventure for my brother since he is really into that system.)

Now, I took the tone of this as you talking down to me like a douchebag, especially the bolded part. Now that is nothing new, the Internet and self-important douchebags are very complimentary to one another.

What is new is this site and its very limited Moderation policy, which gives offensive douchebags no shielding when they are being douchebags. They can be treated how they are acting, which is a wonderful freedom.

I responded to the tone that you took with me. If you do not like being responded to in that manner, maybe you should check your own tone that you are using in posts.

Because you could have just stated, "I'm not understanding you here. Would you mind clearing this up?" without trying to be insulting. Unless common courtesy is beneath you.

Is that clear enough for you now?

Quote from: jeff37923;663932You know, if you paid attention to what I wrote and didn't listen to the voices in your head, you might be able to understand things easier.

It may also help if you weren't busy trying to be a douchebag about it.

The way you used the term "loss leader," as a reason to not participate, without any futher explanation, implied (to those of us familiar with out businesses use the term) that it is inherently bad. If you'd said "They didn't participate because it's a loss leader and they don't do that kind of marketing, this circle jerk wouldn't be happening. But just saying "They didn't ... because it's a loss leader" without anything more comes across the same as "they didn't . . . because it causes babies to cry." There is an implication that loss leaders are inherently a bad idea. And that simply isn't true.

That it's a loss leader, in and of itself, isn't a reason to not participate.

Quote from: Rincewind1;663962If it matters, you need to get off the forums, because you're turning into Ron Paul lookalike.

B-b-b but . . .

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)

Quote from: taustin;663970The way you used the term "loss leader," as a reason to not participate, without any futher explanation, implied (to those of us familiar with out businesses use the term) that it is inherently bad. If you'd said "They didn't participate because it's a loss leader and they don't do that kind of marketing, this circle jerk wouldn't be happening. But just saying "They didn't ... because it's a loss leader" without anything more comes across the same as "they didn't . . . because it causes babies to cry." There is an implication that loss leaders are inherently a bad idea. And that simply isn't true.

That it's a loss leader, in and of itself, isn't a reason to not participate.

See, you didn't seem like a douchebag at all when you posted that. Why can't Emperor Norton learn this skill?

Quote from: jeff37923;663976See, you didn't seem like a douchebag at all when you posted that. Why can't Emperor Norton learn this skill?

I would guess he's imitating you. You're a overly sensitive, childish git who calls people names, and doesn't like to be wrong.

There are several dedicated game stores here, and none of them participated in Free RPG day. One was going to (Dave's Clubhouse), but cancelled at the last minute using Origins as an excuse. Which makes sense, since Origins was expecting about 20k people this year, most, if not all of whom would not travel out to the burbs to a rinky-dink shop. I hear they postponed it until July.

I only like one game store in town, because it's big, well lit, well stocked, and clean. Sometimes it smells like a cat box (because a cat actually lives in the store), but usually it's okay. However, the employees are generally lazy and if a girl (of any size or shape) is in the store, prepare to be ignored, even if you have $100 worth of stuff waiting to check out. So I stopped going. And that's my favorite in-town store. (The Guard Tower, in case you were wondering).

Then there is The Soldiery, which is dark, dank, and mostly sells minis and magic cards. They have a large selection of used books and boardgames, but sell them at ridiculously high prices (example: they've had 12 copies of Revised Recon on the shelf for 15 years, in various states of disrepair... all for cover price). My old roommate goes there a lot and gets some deals because him and the owner are on a first-name basis.

Then there is Ravenstone, which is predominantly 4th edition and Pathfinder, with schmuck employees and schmuck regular customers. The place is relatively tidy and you can find some cool stuff if you really look around, but the staff isn't helpful unless you're pals with them.

Half-Price Books is probably the best place for game books in Columbus.

Here's what I want in a game store:

• Friendly, clean, professional employees. This is a retail business after all. Greet every single person who walks in, and ask them if they need help finding anything. Staff should be knowledgeable about the products, and be able to recommend products, but should never shit on any of the products. The point of a business is to make money, not crap on what someone may enjoy.
• Good lighting, clean floors, open walkways, and air conditioning. It's not hard to replace light bulbs, sweep the floor at close, and move boxes of shit out of the way. Air conditioning keeps the books in good shape and keeps that stank down.
• A large storefront with windows that allow lots of natural light inside. Once again, it's a business. It should be inviting to window shoppers and the curious. It shouldn't be a place for goblinoid motherfuckers to hide out to escape sunlight.
• Artwork and Music. I want my game store to feel like a top notch record or comic shop. It should be cool to go to the game store, not dirty like a porn shop. No muzak or top 40 or elevator music. This ain't a supermarket or Bath and Body works. It should have an edge, but having an edge doesn't mean being a shithole. For me, I would just play punk, metal, and hip hop, mostly local and/or underground. Promo posters and the like should be regularly rotated, the walls should be covered in badass art, clothes, and the like.
• Sponsor local non-gaming events. Build partnerships with other local, niche stores. Be active in the community. Here in Cbus, that means opening booths at Comfest and Independence Day festivals, joining the Small Business Beanstalk, discounts for bike riders, joining the Doo Dah Parade, and sponsoring local art and music shows.

This may keep certain types of customers away, but it would bring in people who otherwise wouldn't check out a game store.

Quote from: taustin;663978I would guess he's imitating you. You're a overly sensitive, childish git who calls people names, and doesn't like to be wrong.

Bingo.

The initial post was a response that maybe he should look up the term, a legitimate response to the way he was using it. It wasn't snide, that was what he read into it because he apparently can't tell the difference between genuine "I don't think you are using that word right" and "Ha ha you moron, you stupid."

Quote from: everloss;663980

• Sponsor local non-gaming events. Build partnerships with other local, niche stores. Be active in the community. Here in Cbus, that means opening booths at Comfest and Independence Day festivals, joining the Small Business Beanstalk, discounts for bike riders, joining the Doo Dah Parade, and sponsoring local art and music shows.

Provided it doesn't increase their prices overly much. They are a business, after all, as you note.

And by and large, the rest is what I expect from all stores.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;663982Bingo.

The initial post was a response that maybe he should look up the term, a legitimate response to the way he was using it. It wasn't snide, that was what he read into it because he apparently can't tell the difference between genuine "I don't think you are using that word right" and "Ha ha you moron, you stupid."

In much the same way that you and I took his use of the term wrong, to be honest, I thought your first comment was easily taken as being a little snotty. Only a little, mind you, but then, the entire conversation was pretty snotty on both sides.

Quote from: taustin;664019In much the same way that you and I took his use of the term wrong, to be honest, I thought your first comment was easily taken as being a little snotty. Only a little, mind you, but then, the entire conversation was pretty snotty on both sides.

I do apologize to him if it sounded snotty. That wasn't the intention. I still think there was a hell of an overreaction though.

(And yeah, I work in marketing, which is why the second time he used it and it looked a little bit wonky it irritated me a bit).

Quote from: everloss;663980

• Friendly, clean, professional employees. This is a retail business after all. Greet every single person who walks in, and ask them if they need help finding anything. Staff should be knowledgeable about the products, and be able to recommend products, but should never shit on any of the products. The point of a business is to make money, not crap on what someone may enjoy.
• Good lighting, clean floors, open walkways, and air conditioning. It's not hard to replace light bulbs, sweep the floor at close, and move boxes of shit out of the way. Air conditioning keeps the books in good shape and keeps that stank down.
• A large storefront with windows that allow lots of natural light inside. Once again, it's a business. It should be inviting to window shoppers and the curious. It shouldn't be a place for goblinoid motherfuckers to hide out to escape sunlight.
• Artwork and Music. I want my game store to feel like a top notch record or comic shop. It should be cool to go to the game store, not dirty like a porn shop. No muzak or top 40 or elevator music. This ain't a supermarket or Bath and Body works. It should have an edge, but having an edge doesn't mean being a shithole. For me, I would just play punk, metal, and hip hop, mostly local and/or underground. Promo posters and the like should be regularly rotated, the walls should be covered in badass art, clothes, and the like.
• Sponsor local non-gaming events. Build partnerships with other local, niche stores. Be active in the community. Here in Cbus, that means opening booths at Comfest and Independence Day festivals, joining the Small Business Beanstalk, discounts for bike riders, joining the Doo Dah Parade, and sponsoring local art and music shows.

All those sound nice. I've never quite understood why most game stores don't try to reach out to the greater geek community. Geeks are a pretty predictable bunch, you can guess what kinds of things we're going to like to do and see.

Talk with the local comic shops, theaters, music stores, video game shops, etc... I'm sure there are lots of opportunities for cross promotion.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;664027I do apologize to him if it sounded snotty. That wasn't the intention.

Welcome to the internet. Good intentions, and a couple of bucks, might get you a cup of coffee.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;664027I still think there was a hell of an overreaction though.

You are, perhaps, less than perfectly literate in your writing. He's a snot nosed little punk. This is hardly news.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;664027(And yeah, I work in marketing, which is why the second time he used it and it looked a little bit wonky it irritated me a bit).

Yeah, he clearly isn't using it the way you and I do. (I've been in retail for 30+ years, most of it at management levels and up.) There's a quote from Inigo Montoya, but I'll refrain.

Quote from: Piestrio;664029All those sound nice. I've never quite understood why most game stores don't try to reach out to the greater geek community. Geeks are a pretty predictable bunch, you can guess what kinds of things we're going to like to do and see.

The gaming industry, top to bottom, start to finish, game designer to publisher to distributor to retailer to gamer, with only a few exceptions, is an industry of amateurs. And most of them are idiots. (According to the Dilbert Principle, they're all idiots at least once in a while, as is everyone else, but most of the people in the gaming industry are idiots all the time.) They have no clue, and won't learn even if you beat them with a clue by four. Most of them, in fact, will consciously choose to go out of business rather than admit that any customer ever might possibly want something other than what the store wants to sell.

When I had Hyperbooks going, it was a rare joy to work with someone who knew their ass from a hole in the ground.

Quote from: Piestrio;664029All those sound nice. I've never quite understood why most game stores don't try to reach out to the greater geek community. Geeks are a pretty predictable bunch, you can guess what kinds of things we're going to like to do and see.

Talk with the local comic shops, theaters, music stores, video game shops, etc... I'm sure there are lots of opportunities for cross promotion.

On that Idea or thought - for the past two years or more our store has had a pretty good connection or networking thing going on with the local bunch of Rennies (Rennaissance Festival workers & groupies)  and the Steampunk group that puts on conventions.

There has been a noticeable GOOD ripple effect with 'who knows who' and how they've heard about us.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;664027I do apologize to him if it sounded snotty. That wasn't the intention. I still think there was a hell of an overreaction though.

(And yeah, I work in marketing, which is why the second time he used it and it looked a little bit wonky it irritated me a bit).

No apology is needed, but it is appreciated. I overreacted as well. Mea culpa.

Quote from: taustin;663978You're a overly sensitive, childish git who calls people names, and doesn't like to be wrong.

Quote from: taustin;664045He's a snot nosed little punk.

Wow, you've been thinking about me all day, haven't you? :p

Quote from: jeff37923;664168No apology is needed, but it is appreciated. I overreacted as well. Mea culpa.

If you keep acting like a grown up, we're going to have to send assassins after you.

Quote from: jeff37923;664172Wow, you've been thinking about me all day, haven't you? :p

No, I really haven't. You, perhaps, might have to spend all day considering the obvious, but I can type pretty quickly.

Quote from: taustin;664260No, I really haven't. You, perhaps, might have to spend all day considering the obvious, but I can type pretty quickly.

Dance, monkey! Dance!

Quote from: jeff37923;664270Dance, monkey! Dance!

I know you are, but what am I?

Quote from: everloss;663980Artwork and Music. I want my game store to feel like a top notch record or comic shop. [...] For me, I would just play punk, metal, and hip hop, mostly local and/or underground.

See, this would turn me off in a pretty big hurry.  Gaming isn't edgy, and shopping for games even less so (comics and records, also not edgy).

My local FLGS plays orchestral soundtracks from fantasy and action movies, which works pretty well.

QuotePromo posters and the like should be regularly rotated, the walls should be covered in badass art, clothes, and the like.

One man's "badass" is another man's "trying too hard and pathetically failing".

QuoteSponsor local non-gaming events. Build partnerships with other local, niche stores. Be active in the community. Here in Cbus, that means opening booths at Comfest and Independence Day festivals, joining the Small Business Beanstalk, discounts for bike riders, joining the Doo Dah Parade, and sponsoring local art and music shows.

If it brings in more customers or counts out of the marketing budget, I suppose it can't hurt, but this sounds like CSR BS to me.  "Leveraging synergies"[1] is what you really need - one FLGS had a poster up by the pay phone in the game room; you got a 10% discount if you ordered pizza from the place up the street.  The pizza joint had a poster advertising the same deal.  End result, both places got more walk-in traffic as people would come into the game store to order cheap pizza.


[1] Which used to mean something real before the Ivy League twats got a hold of it

Quote from: daniel_ream;664332My local FLGS plays orchestral soundtracks from fantasy and action movies, which works pretty well.

Oh dear god... NO!

Quote from: daniel_ream;664332One man's "badass" is another man's "trying too hard and pathetically failing".

Like I said in my post, a store that fit my taste (eg; cool and fun) would keep some people out (fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc), but bring new people in; like high school kids, college kids, and (of dear lord!) women.
I think it's obvious who I want to keep out; people I don't ever want to game with. IE: smelly as shit neckbeards who wear the same TSR Dragon Month promo t-shirt every Saturday for the past 20 years, don't buy anything just hang out at the shop annoying the staff because they have no one to talk to otherwise, who try to impress women by speaking in a lispy english accent because they watched Excaliber for the 50th time the previous night (yet treat the same woman like absolute shit during play and drives her away from gaming forever), and pathetically failing at not only being acceptable members of society in general, but also pathetically failing at promoting the hobby they claim to love, yet seem to attempt to stifle at every turn.

I don't want to game with people like that.

As for my musical choices, as I said, that's my choice. You can play whatever the fuck you want in your store.

Hell, if I could, I'd sell beer inside and have a fenced in patio for smokers to play outside.

Quote from: Koltar;663014Sadly , our owners did not have the funds to participate in 'Free RPG Day' this year.

Are margins really so thin they couldn't afford a single $85 kit - or the $139 "uber-kit" that netted the store all of the stuff in the $85 kit, plus saleable copies of a dice tower, DCC RPG core book, LotFP RPG book and C&C RPG core book?

Not asking out of douchebaggery, but I am truly interested, from the "running the business" perspective of thing.

Participation just seems like a no-brainer to me.  It's a ton of promotional product, some fantastic marketing and a better deal on the saleable product (60% off MSRP) then most stores typically get through their normal distributor channels, and the participation cost seems to be peanuts, unless a store's hanging on by a shoe-string.

Quote from: kythri;664433Are margins really so thin they couldn't afford a single $85 kit - or the $139 "uber-kit" that netted the store all of the stuff in the $85 kit, plus saleable copies of a dice tower, DCC RPG core book, LotFP RPG book and C&C RPG core book?

Not asking out of douchebaggery, but I am truly interested, from the "running the business" perspective of thing.

Okay - you said you're not being a douchebag....I'll believe you on that.

What I type NEXT, is my observations & opinions and not that of store management or the store's owners - Okay?

All those items you mentioned I don't believe generate enough foot traffic to the store.  Most of that fellow Cincinnatian Flyerfan found at two other places locally.  (He shops at our store too and is a really nice guy. LOVE it that his kids are into PATHFINDER) I only heard about those by reading conversations on the internet.

What DOES generate foot traffic to our store is what we normally do on a weekly basis  - the Dungeons & Dragons Encounters  on Wednesday nights and 'Friday Night Magic' every week between 6 and 9pm Friday nights.
Also some weeks there are a few folks that like to check in on what my STAR TREK campaign is doing and if I am using star maps & miniatures that week. Only thing is the TREK RPG game is every other week.

The other attention-grabber or foot traffic magnet is the BATTLETECH Miniatures club that sets up huge scenario battles once a month on our game tables. Folks that browse our store quite often ask when their next game is going to happen at our store becvause they want to watch it or even try to play it.

One 'Promotional Day' that was pretty good for us was the TABLETOP DAY that Wil Wheaton and Felicia Day started this year.
THAT got a lot of interest and people stopping by the store to try things out.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;664449What I type NEXT, is my observations & opinions and not that of store management or the store's owners - Okay?

Understood, and thank you.

It's interesting seeing the participants and seeing the effects.

I'll post my observations of this years Free RPG Day at local shops when I get to work in a bit, I've got to prepare to leave.

Quote from: everloss;664388Like I said in my post, a store that fit my taste (eg; cool and fun) would keep some people out (fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc), but bring new people in; like high school kids, college kids, and (of dear lord!) women.
I think it's obvious who I want to keep out; people I don't ever want to game with. IE: smelly as shit neckbeards who wear the same TSR Dragon Month promo t-shirt every Saturday for the past 20 years, don't buy anything just hang out at the shop annoying the staff because they have no one to talk to otherwise, who try to impress women by speaking in a lispy english accent because they watched Excaliber for the 50th time the previous night (yet treat the same woman like absolute shit during play and drives her away from gaming forever), and pathetically failing at not only being acceptable members of society in general, but also pathetically failing at promoting the hobby they claim to love, yet seem to attempt to stifle at every turn.

I don't want to game with people like that.

I didn't really go to gaming stores when I was a kid.

But if I had regularly come across people like that (ie. fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc...) back in the day, then most likely I would have completely dropped role playing games early on.

In more recent times, I've noticed many of the non-creepy gamers I've known offline over the years, constantly gossip and vent about the local fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc ...  Whenever I asked why they continue to play rpg games with such awful individuals, their reply is either a blank stare or they complain about how the local pool of players is so miniscule that there isn't anybody else available for regular weekly/biweekly game sessions.  It seems like they would rather play rpg games with awful people, than not playing at all.

Quote from: Koltar;664449What DOES generate foot traffic to our store is what we norm,ally do on a weekly basis [...]

What I'm noticing is that all of the things you've mentioned have this in common: they're cool to look at if you're not playing.  This seems kind of obvious - an RPG isn't much to look at unless you're going overboard with the chrome - and I'm wondering if any other store owners have observed this correlation.

Quote from: ggroy;664489I didn't really go to gaming stores when I was a kid.

But if I had regularly come across people like that (ie. fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc...) back in the day, then most likely I would have completely dropped role playing games early on.

In more recent times, I've noticed many of the non-creepy gamers I've known offline over the years, constantly gossip and vent about the local fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc ...  Whenever I asked why they continue to play rpg games with such awful individuals, their reply is either a blank stare or they complain about how the local pool of players is so miniscule that there isn't anybody else available for regular weekly/biweekly game sessions.  It seems like they would rather play rpg games with awful people, than not playing at all.

Part of the problem may be that they are limiting thier pool of local players to only known, established gamers. I would rather spend an evening with cool people who may be new to gaming than a group of catpissmen who are expert players.

Quote from: kythri;664475I'll post my observations of this years Free RPG Day at local shops when I get to work in a bit, I've got to prepare to leave.

So...

In a 100 mile radius of where I live in Oregon, 5 shops were participating.

One in Eugene, a new shop (Funagain Games, backed by funagain.com).  Seems like a great store, been in there twice now.  They're the only brick-and-mortar store that I've witness discounting product on a regular basis (I think about 15% off MSRP, on most stuff).  They bill this as "get the online discount here in the store!"

There's a few other stores in the area - one is primarily a card shop, so I understand why they don't participate.  Another is a great store (Evolution Gaming), and carries a good selection of RPG stuff (including a fair amount of "indy" stuff, which I don't see other places), but their focus seems dedicated primarily to Warhammer (about 60% of the floor space) and boardgames/eurogames (about 25-30% of the floor space).

Their RPG stock seems to have a pretty decent turnover, so I'm surprised the don't participate.

The other shop of consideration in the area (Emerald City Comics) is primarily a comic shop, but they've participated in the past, and when I was there the last time they did (2009), the shop was bustling, a lot of interested folks and a lot of RPG sales that I don't see any other time I'm in (which is saying something, as this shop is in the heart of the University of Oregon campus, and shares a building/main entrance with an enormous (and enormously popular) used bookstore of local fame (Smith Family Bookstore).

I've been surprised the last few years that they haven't been a participant, given the previous success that I've seen, and their campus location.

Corvallis, (the city I work in) has two shops, one participating.  Not at all surprised at that.

The participant (Matt's Cavalcade) is a long-time fixture, a "comic shop" that's been in business for nearly 25 years, but one that's equally supportive of games and collectibles.  They've been a long time participant, and host Pathfinder Society, and always see a big turnout.  They recently opened a small sister-store in Albany, which is mostly a small sales floor and some place space at the front of the warehouse they bought (they do all the major conventions on the west coast, and some in the midwest, and needed storage space for all of that gear, in addition to their huge comics backstock collection).  I believe they were trying to get some PFS stuff setup there, as well.  I deal with Matt's on a regular basis, but don't typically go there for Free RPG Day, as the store is usually slammed (close to campus (Oregon State University) and just a popular store.

The other store (Pegasus Games) is a tiny tiny place that is focused on Warhammer and Magic, and seems to be permanently populated by the owner's clique of friends.  

Unfriendly to outsiders.  They carry some token D&D books, likely so they can maintain their "Wizards Premier" store designation, for whatever benefit that nets them.

Not surprised that they don't participate, since none of the product seems like their market.

Salem has two stores, one participant.  The non-participating store, Wild Things Games, seems to be primarily CCGs - they've got a fair amount of RPG stuff, and used to participate pretty heavily in things like Living Greyhawk, Living Forgotten Realms, the equivalent for Eberron, etc.

That RPG stock, though, doesn't really move - it's all sun-faded due to being next to the big picture windows at the front of the store, and it's blocked off by gaming tables, which typically requires getting obnoxious CCG players to move so you can peruse it (obnoxious because they get pissy about being forced to accomodate a browsing customer, not necessarily because they're CCG players).

The participating store, Borderlands Games, is pretty good.  I hit them up once or twice a month, since i'm in Salem fairly often, but I don't end up buying much, since all they really carry is new product - the only new product I find myself buying anymore is either Pathfinder (subscribed from Paizo) or Kickstarter-based stuff.  They used to have a fantastic used/OOP section in the store, but they clearanced all of that out several years ago, which was great at the time, but has sucked since then, since that was a huge draw for me.  I really only visit out of sentimentality and timekilling.

The Portland area has quite a few stores, but only three participating this year.

Rainy Day Games is a pretty nice place - they bought up a bunch of fixtures from a local Borders closure, so the place looks WAY more upscale than most game stores, what with nice fixtures/decor and consistency of the same.  While I dig the shop, they focus primarily on new product, with no used/OOP stuff to speak of.  As such, given that they're up in Portland, they're not commonly a destination for me.  If I happen to be in the Beaverton/Aloha area, and I'm not in any kind of rush, I'll swing by, but I don't go out of my way.

The last time I was there, they did seem to have a pretty decent variety of RPG stuff, but I don't recall much smaller publisher stuff - maybe a copy of the Dresden Files books?  I hit them up for Free RPG Day a couple years ago, and they were doing pretty well.

Guardian Games is a pretty great store, and if I lived in the area, would probably end up being the one I frequent most -huge selection of pretty much everything gaming, an OK selection of used/OOP, a huge amount of play space, and they apparently have their liquor license to be able to serve beer/wine (though I've never partaken there before).  They're in the warehouse district, so there's no decent parking, you just have to find something on a side street.

I visited them a couple years ago for Free RPG Day, after hitting up Rainy Day Games above, and by the time I got there (about an hour or so after open) quite a bit of their stuff (I think they said they bought 2 or 3 kits?) was gone, and the place was slammed.

Finally, the last participant is Ancient Wonders in Tualatin.  It's the biggest dive store in the area, running out of an old house grandfathered into the zoning and all kinds of upscale development surrounding it.  Play space upstairs, a bit downstairs, and, until the last year or so, a staggeringly phenomenal selection of used/OOP/backstock RPG stuff.  Definitely the place most likely to find weirdos.  It seems that they've pretty much stopped buying up old stuff or collections (or nobody is trying to sell?) because the shelves just get more and more empty every time I visit (about every 2 months).  I've bought a ton of stuff there, but due to the dwindling supply, it's less and less.  

This year, I went to Borderlands in Salem for Free RPG Day, and was there at open - store wasn't horribly packed.  They were advertising a "2 free items only" but not paying attention, so a bunch of mooches who didn't buy anything were taking 6-7 items.  I snagged the Pathfinder module and the DCC module, and bought about $40 worth of stuff, so they gave me one of the Q-Workshop dice.

My brother, who lives in Gresham (suburb of Portland) conned me into helping him tow his muscle car project from Salem to his place in Gresham, so when we were done (about 6 pm that evening), I swung by Ancient Wonders - they were out of all of the Pathfinder, Shadowrun, DCC and LotFP stuff.  Seemed to be decently busy.  They had a copy of the old AD&D 2E Diablo (Diablo II?) box set game that I snagged for $20.

Of the rest of the Portland stores that weren't participating, most of them seem to focus on other games or product (comics, collectibles) primarily, with RPGs being an example of "oh yeah, we sell that too, here's the few books we stock."

Quote from: daniel_ream;664508What I'm noticing is that all of the things you've mentioned have this in common: they're cool to look at if you're not playing.  This seems kind of obvious - an RPG isn't much to look at unless you're going overboard with the chrome - and I'm wondering if any other store owners have observed this correlation.

Mustangs and Messerschmitts always draws a crowd at cons. And it's not all that complicated a game, though more time can be spent painting the model airplanes that actually playing (if you want).

I just don't like the assholes who play it around here.

Quote from: daniel_ream;664508What I'm noticing is that all of the things you've mentioned have this in common: they're cool to look at if you're not playing.  This seems kind of obvious - an RPG isn't much to look at unless you're going overboard with the chrome - and I'm wondering if any other store owners have observed this correlation.

Thats why in 20/20 hindsight WOTC doesn't seem so stupid when they tried to emphasize use of miniatures with 4th edition D&D.

The problem was they made it too damn fiddly and detail-oriented.

Getting back sort of to the opening post  - I never try to 'steer' a browser or customer towards a particular RPG.

HOWEVER, if they ask me certain questions or seem interested in trying out RPGs or D&D - I will tell them what regular customers in our area have been saying.
Also I notice when groups are playing in the store where they get bogged down in the middle of an RPG session. What bits of a role-playing game slow things down is quite noticeable to someone not actually playing but still having to hear everything going on. It may look like I'm straightening the shelves or putting up products in a new arrangement, but my ears are still working fine and they've heard dozens upon dozens of game sessions over the past 6 years. (Its sort of like listening to old radio shows or audio dramas)

So even without actually playing all those D&D and PATHFINDER games - I do have the memory of those adventures in my head. (both good and bad)

All of the above informs the advice I give browsers when they display an interest in Role Playing Games.

And Yes I oftenm use a similiar line to what I said in that earlier post. Some version of the phrase:
 "This is my opinion, not the store's opinion - but this is what I've seen or noticed..."
That sentence is usually finished or followed up with phrases like these : "...with regulars at our store", "...other gamers in the area", "...My co-workers and their RPG groups"

- Ed C.

Quote from: ggroy;664489I didn't really go to gaming stores when I was a kid.

But if I had regularly come across people like that (ie. fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc...) back in the day, then most likely I would have completely dropped role playing games early on.

My FLGS when I was a kid (9+ years old) was in a city hours away.

The proprietors were this skinny, grizzled, long-haired hippie/biker(?I was 9?) couple and the guy had dragon tattoos up and down his arms. There was also ads for a tattoo shop in the lobby.

I thought it was the coolest fucking thing ever! Even if I was a wee bit 9-year-old intimidated by the tattooed longhair.

In another post I mentioned a game shop - The Last Grenadier, in Burbank - I visited pretty regularly when I was in my teens. It wasn't close to where I lived, which meant I usually got dropped off there and then picked up later in the day, hanging out for four hours? five hours? six hours? usually arranging to meet friends, or sometimes playing pickup games with whoever happened to be hanging around.

Do kids do that anymore?

When I was a kid, most of my D&D material came from one of the local discount stores.  There was Van Leunen's, and there was K-Mart (yes, the same K-Mart that makes Walmart look like Macy's).  Both stocked D&D in a special section next to the toys.  When I began to accumulate MERP/RM stuff back in my senior year of high school, I got it from the local Waldenbooks.  

Now that I think about it, all three destinations are gone.

I didn't set foot into a game or comic shop until college, when I started going to The Tin Soldier.  If I'd have been looking at games at The Tin Soldier first, I might not have stuck with the hobby, because they used to treat kids as either people who destroy minis battles or thieves waiting for an opportunity.  The discount stores and the book store left me alone to peruse at leisure.  Maybe they were watching me, but my kid radar didn't go off.

Catpissmen.  New terminology to me, but an instantly recognizable stereotype.  I haven't had much problem with them though.  I think there is another kind of obnoxious neckbeard that doesn't necessarily smell bad, and isn't necessarily fat but is invested in some kind of not easily recognizable geek "counter-culture" of which TRPGs are just one facet.  

They are hipsters basically, that seek some kind of exclusivity in their hobbies so passive-aggressively attempt to shut 'casuals' or 'normalfags' out of the loop just like actual hipsters.  It's the exclusivity of tolerance.  Those people who have standards are made to feel unwelcome, but if you are both personally repulsive and are accepting of other repulsive people then you are part of the in-crowd.

Quote from: Wolf, Richard;664625Catpissmen.  New terminology to me, but an instantly recognizable stereotype.  I haven't had much problem with them though.  I think there is another kind of obnoxious neckbeard that doesn't necessarily smell bad, and isn't necessarily fat but is invested in some kind of not easily recognizable geek "counter-culture" of which TRPGs are just one facet.  

They are hipsters basically, that seek some kind of exclusivity in their hobbies so passive-aggressively attempt to shut 'casuals' or 'normalfags' out of the loop just like actual hipsters.  It's the exclusivity of tolerance.  Those people who have standards are made to feel unwelcome, but if you are both personally repulsive and are accepting of other repulsive people then you are part of the in-crowd.

Not just rpg games.  "Hipster elitism" is a widespread thing in other niches.

Whether rpg games, heavy metal music, punk rock music, Mensa, horror movies, heavy boozers, stoners, etc ...