The 1968 film Bullitt is being re-released on the big screen on a limited basis and that got me thinking about it and similar movies of the period, The French Connection, The Seven Ups, Dirty Harry etc. There were also a number of "realistic" police and detective television shows around this time as well, Dragnet, Adam 12, Streets of San Francisco, Police Story, and later Hill Street Blues and the Law & Order franchise.
These would seem to offer some serious role playing opportunities for small groups, but in my experience this doesn't happen.
Other than GURPS Cops and SWAT I can't even think of any game materials that make much of an effort at the subject, although there are a number of investigation games (Call of Cthulhu being the 10,000lb gorilla) and Private Eye PCs are not uncommon in a number of game genres. Noir detective games seem like they would be a thing, but again coming up blank.
Just wondering if anyone has pulled this off in some form, doesn't have to be the modern era could be the Wild West, or even medieval times. Real mystery / investigation or law enforcement though not just monster hunting which is a far more common theme. While my examples are more seriously minded, something more cinematic like Lethal Weapon counts so long as the detective / police part is a major component not just window dressing. I'm sure there are a lot of western PCs who are technically lawmen but investigating / prosecuting crimes is a minor to trivial part of the game.
Interested in unsuccessful attempts and what went wrong as well as examples of ones that worked.
As always feel free to put in your 2 cents regardless of personal success or failure with the genre, I'm hoping for some discussion of the topic, what might make it work, and where you all feel it stumbles.
I don't think I've ever run a straight police procedural, but I found GURPS Mysteries found immensely useful in running a few games in the broader mystery genre. It's not a genre I'm familiar with so I needed the help, and the book gave me a solid overview, advice on how to structure the game, and enough detail so I could improvise extemporaneously without feeling lost. And while it's not the sole focus of the book, the police procedural is one of the major modes of play the book revolves around. The book's also tightly paired with GURPS Cops[1], which covers the nitty gritty details while Mysteries is more focused on the overall genre and structure.
[1] It's slightly annoying to read if you don't have Cops, because it makes a lot of cross-references.
Check out Crime Fighter from Task Force Games, you might find some value in it.
I haven't see GURPS Mysteries or Crime Fighter, I'll have a look at those.
Although set in a much earlier period I just remembered Gang Busters by TSR. I'm not sure how much investigation actually played into the game.
There's also The Thin Blue Line (Savage Worlds) and Mutant City Blues (Gumshoe). They'd both need the supernatural bits trimmed out to run a purely police procedural, which wouldn't be too hard in the case of TTBL. I'm not sure about MCB as I haven't read it; it was out of print and horribly expensive by the time it popped up on my radar. I almost think TTBL would be just as good played straight-up with no monsters or psychic stuff. A Detroit trying to rebuild and recover is a great setting choice, and while I know Savage Worlds isn't for everyone it can handle all the stuff you'd want in such a game: action, interrogation, chase scenes, and investigation.
I know The Thin Blue Line as well and I like it. It does have a supernatural focus though. I also know WoD Tales from the 13th Precinct which also has a supernatural element. Both these books have plenty mundane stuff in it which can be used in a non-supernatural setting.
I don't think supernatural elements necessarily discount a game. I'd consider something based on the X files to be very much an investigation game, it even involves FBI agents who have to follow some sort of policy and chain of command. Assuming investigation still plays a large part as in the series.
Alien Nation was very much a police drama, it just happened to be one where the investigation took place in an alien community.
So several more games being mentioned, anyone run or played in a game like this?
I freeformed a three-shot police procedural in the mid-90s, it was essentially an Interpol investigation against the Cosa Nostra, from the outside it would have looked like a low-budget James Bond adventure I guess.
As always with these things, one is slightly ham-strung by none of us actually having law enforcement experience, however it worked amazingly well, a real break from the regular RPG tropes.
Tales from Precinct 13 for World of Darkness has been mentioned.
There's also the Vanguard Serial Crimes Unit from the Slashers splat for Hunter: The Vigil. They're FBI Agents who get called into spree killings, namely because they're experts at connecting the dots as to when it's something's (probably) less-than-mundane. Interestingly, their main opponents are the titular Slashers who are your Jason Voorhees' and Leather Face's rather than Bitey McWerewolf and Count Fangula, which can make for much more grounded, gritty and unpredictable WoD games, since Slashers teeter on the lines of "may be supernatural, may be mundane".
Greetings!
Hi there, Toadmaster! Interesting question you have here. I've never run a dedicated police procedural game. Broad exploration, social investigation in medieval based games, certainly. But actually getting into scientific analysis of clues, correlation of evidence, drawn out court trials and bureaucratic wrangling? I think you don't find the genre very popular as a game, for two main reasons;
(1) Most people want more action. Not necessarily kill everything that moves, but definitely a heavier focus on killing, and regular, frequent episodes of physical violence. Procedural Police Investigation games, are inherently going to be focused on something else entirely.
(2) I think that police procedural investigation games require not merely *interest*--but also Intellect. Or I should more precisely say, people that are going to be interested and experience *success* in such a game *use their intellects in a way which flows with doing it* Cops are usually fairly intelligent. Detectives, however, much like FBI analysts, have to not just be smart people, but they use their intelligence and perception *differently* than the rest of us. That's why they're detectives and FBI analysts, and most other people are not.
Loosely related, but you know how some people really, really love crossword games, or really deep puzzle games? There's a few people that love those activities--while the majority views them as either entirely boring or frustrating or incomprehensible. Hopefully I'm making sense. lol.
I think that the appeal is simply fairly limited. I should also note that *participating* is a distinction from *passively observing*. I think these issues may not totally explain it of course, but I think they play a fairly significant role of influence.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Despite the Lovecraftian themes, Delta Green is a solid resource for modern investigation techniques, resources, etc. Including which agencies do what.
SHARK: Semper Fi, brother.
Quote from: SHARK;1059221Greetings!
Hi there, Toadmaster! Interesting question you have here. I've never run a dedicated police procedural game. Broad exploration, social investigation in medieval based games, certainly. But actually getting into scientific analysis of clues, correlation of evidence, drawn out court trials and bureaucratic wrangling? I think you don't find the genre very popular as a game, for two main reasons;
(1) Most people want more action. Not necessarily kill everything that moves, but definitely a heavier focus on killing, and regular, frequent episodes of physical violence. Procedural Police Investigation games, are inherently going to be focused on something else entirely.
(2) I think that police procedural investigation games require not merely *interest*--but also Intellect. Or I should more precisely say, people that are going to be interested and experience *success* in such a game *use their intellects in a way which flows with doing it* Cops are usually fairly intelligent. Detectives, however, much like FBI analysts, have to not just be smart people, but they use their intelligence and perception *differently* than the rest of us. That's why they're detectives and FBI analysts, and most other people are not.
Loosely related, but you know how some people really, really love crossword games, or really deep puzzle games? There's a few people that love those activities--while the majority views them as either entirely boring or frustrating or incomprehensible. Hopefully I'm making sense. lol.
I think that the appeal is simply fairly limited. I should also note that *participating* is a distinction from *passively observing*. I think these issues may not totally explain it of course, but I think they play a fairly significant role of influence.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Agree that it is probably a limited audience, but disagree that it has to be boring. There can be plenty of action, it just depends on where the emphasis is based. Handing the players an accounting ledger and boxes of receipts for them to come up with connections is going to be pretty dry... let skill rolls handle that and jump to the raid on the cocaine factory or serving warrants on a notoriously violent drug dealer.
Tracking down bank robbers, drug dealers or even "just" run of the mill murderers offers opportunities for action even if you limit yourself to the real world. Get a little more cinematic and things can get really active.
You were a military guy, would you run a Marine Corps based game around polishing the latrines, making a bed you can bounce a quarter on and cleaning your rifle? Of course not, it might be fun for awhile to run a game in boot camp ala Full Metal Jacket, but that will eventually get dull, lets get to the action and blow some stuff up! :D
But you could be right that the idea of a police based game is dull leading to it being an unpopular genre.
Quote from: MKoth;1059251Despite the Lovecraftian themes, Delta Green is a solid resource for modern investigation techniques, resources, etc. Including which agencies do what.
SHARK: Semper Fi, brother.
Greetings!
OOH-RAH!!! Good to meet you, MKoth! Another Marine reporting, Sir! Good to have you here with us. We always need a few more Marines! What did you do in our beloved Green Machine?
What do you think of 5E brother? You have any other fellow Marines that play too?
Semper Fi, Marine!
SHARK
Quote from: Toadmaster;1059303Agree that it is probably a limited audience, but disagree that it has to be boring. There can be plenty of action, it just depends on where the emphasis is based. Handing the players an accounting ledger and boxes of receipts for them to come up with connections is going to be pretty dry... let skill rolls handle that and jump to the raid on the cocaine factory or serving warrants on a notoriously violent drug dealer.
Tracking down bank robbers, drug dealers or even "just" run of the mill murderers offers opportunities for action even if you limit yourself to the real world. Get a little more cinematic and things can get really active.
You were a military guy, would you run a Marine Corps based game around polishing the latrines, making a bed you can bounce a quarter on and cleaning your rifle? Of course not, it might be fun for awhile to run a game in boot camp ala Full Metal Jacket, but that will eventually get dull, lets get to the action and blow some stuff up! :D
But you could be right that the idea of a police based game is dull leading to it being an unpopular genre.
Greetings!
LOL! Hilarious, Toadmaster! Good points. You make the genre sound pretty damn cool. And yeah...geezo...making a game about Marine Boot Camp...oh my god that was funny, Toad! You smoke cigars at all, Toadmaster?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I've successfully run a series of detective games (not strictly police procedural - more TV detective series in tone) set in the 1930s, using the excellent Two-Fisted Tales ruleset. The style is more Black Mask pulp than noir cinema, and the detectives have solved crimes in Europe, Asia and the Americas. Travel is by ocean liner, zeppelin and (now we are later in the 1930s) Imperial Airways and Pan Am Clipper seaplanes. I play relevant 1930s dance music and have period pictures found on the web of the cities the team visits and the stylish clothes and cars of the era.
The detectives have run around 20 cases and we've gone from the summer of 1931 to winter 1936. My players don't find detection boring (I know some players do) and there is usually a gunfight or two in most games - but not too many, as combat in Two-Fisted Tales is not to be undertaken lightly. We've had a lot of fun solving crimes!
Quote from: SHARK;1059326Greetings!
OOH-RAH!!! Good to meet you, MKoth! Another Marine reporting, Sir! Good to have you here with us. We always need a few more Marines! What did you do in our beloved Green Machine?
What do you think of 5E brother? You have any other fellow Marines that play too?
Semper Fi, Marine!
SHARK
Nope, one of my fellow players is former Army, and are all techs and scientists now. We play a lot of WFRP, but when it comes to D&D, instead of embracing the new stuff, we've been doing Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea. We just seem to have more fun with the rules that we started playing back in the 70s with the flavor of all the fantastic character classes.
As far as the Corps goes, Air-winger here. Active duty back in the mid 80s.
Semper Fi!
-Mick
I was once upon a time going to write a game around police procedurals - I had a title (Ecce Homicide) and cover already made. I don't give a fuck if my games sell or not, and it looked right up my alley. I have run dozens of police procedurals over the years, with terrific success. But then, while I was prepping the book, I realized there was no game there. Procedurals are all about how you run a game, not what game you run. I shut that sucker down so fast it's still spinning. It's not my business to tell anyone else how to run a game.
You could probably use BRP rules, including Call of Cthulhu or Raiders of R'lyeh, to do a historical police campaign.
The first game we released was a counter terrorism game called Terror Network. Mainly focused on FBI, CIA and Joint Counter Terrorism Task Forces (that might include local law enforcement. There is a supplement that expands on agencies. Quite simple though and not at GURPS level detail (mainly meant to get the ball rolling). Also put out Crime Network where you can be the criminals (and the books for that have some rules on law enforcement issues. CN is mafia focused.
Quote from: Pat;1059052I don't think I've ever run a straight police procedural, but I found GURPS Mysteries found immensely useful in running a few games in the broader mystery genre.
I found a copy of this on Ebay, it arrived today. Only had a quick read through it, but as with so many GURPS books it does appear to be super helpful. Thanks again for mentioning it.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1059864You could probably use BRP rules, including Call of Cthulhu or Raiders of R'lyeh, to do a historical police campaign.
Not familiar with Raiders, but CoC does have a lot of built in mechanics for investigating.
I've read several books covering local mysteries / crimes from the California Gold Rush through the 1960s (the Zodiac killer was the most recent included) as well as a semi-biography of Issiah Lees, a San Francisco detective who worked for the police department from the 1850s and retired as the Chief of Police at the turn of the century. Some pretty dark stuff, it would be so easy to turn some of these cases into something related to the mythos.
I've run police procedural campaigns in Savage Worlds, though that was a cross with urban fantasy and pulps, and in A Dirty World. The former had more action, while the latter featured a private investigator that wasn't a cop, but had a tarot practice.
Let's just say she relied less on tarot and more on talking to people she suspected, though:D!
So I can definitely recommend A Dirty World, and the One-Roll Crime Generator would be useful even if you use a different system!
The Esoterrorists and Mutant City Blues are also focused on police procedurals, it seems the latter would be somewhat better.
Quote from: flyingmice;1059388I was once upon a time going to write a game around police procedurals - I had a title (Ecce Homicide) and cover already made. I don't give a fuck if my games sell or not, and it looked right up my alley. I have run dozens of police procedurals over the years, with terrific success. But then, while I was prepping the book, I realized there was no game there. Procedurals are all about how you run a game, not what game you run. I shut that sucker down so fast it's still spinning. It's not my business to tell anyone else how to run a game.
Why the hell not? Do you think GMs are born knowing how to run all genres, or do you think that, say, the LotFP DMG is wrong in explaining you how to run a sandbox with dungeons:)?
Make it a "how to run police procedurals" book, instead! But by all means, write it;)!
I've run police procedural campaigns in Savage Worlds, though that was a cross with urban fantasy and pulps, and in A Dirty World. The former had more action, while the latter featured a private investigator that wasn't a cop, but had a tarot practice.
Let's just say she relied less on tarot and more on talking to people she suspected, though:D!
So I can definitely recommend A Dirty World, and the One-Roll Crime Generator would be useful even if you use a different system!
The Esoterrorists and Mutant City Blues are also focused on police procedurals, it seems the latter would be somewhat better.
Quote from: flyingmice;1059388I was once upon a time going to write a game around police procedurals - I had a title (Ecce Homicide) and cover already made. I don't give a fuck if my games sell or not, and it looked right up my alley. I have run dozens of police procedurals over the years, with terrific success. But then, while I was prepping the book, I realized there was no game there. Procedurals are all about how you run a game, not what game you run. I shut that sucker down so fast it's still spinning. It's not my business to tell anyone else how to run a game.
Why the hell not? Do you think GMs are born knowing how to run all genres, or do you think that, say, the LotFP DMG is wrong in explaining you how to run a sandbox with dungeons:)?
Make it a "how to run police procedurals" book, instead! But by all means, write it;)!
Quote from: Toadmaster;1061609I found a copy of this on Ebay, it arrived today. Only had a quick read through it, but as with so many GURPS books it does appear to be super helpful. Thanks again for mentioning it.
Sure. It's one of the better GURPS books.
D20 Modern could actually do a police procedural with a bit more action bent... like... Hot Fuzz.
An interesting book to mine for ideas (and though it's cyberpunk a lot of the ideas from it are things specific to this thread) - is the CP2020 book "To Serve and Protect" which is a book themed around cop-campaigns. They talk about futuristic procedure and methods that are basically the things that need to be addressed in any police-specific campaign. It's worth a look if you're wanting to run a procedural game. Likewise I'd look at the Fixer book - Wildside, which does a good job covering organized crime. Could probably mine that for a lot of customized tables etc.
I've often thought that a wild-west/detective combo, with the PCs playing Pinkertons, could be very interesting.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1062200I've often thought that a wild-west/detective combo, with the PCs playing Pinkertons, could be very interesting.
I'm about to start playing in a Pinkerton game like that next week! Pinkerton is a big deal in Deadlands.
Quote from: tenbones;1062207I'm about to start playing in a Pinkerton game like that next week! Pinkerton is a big deal in Deadlands.
Cool. Be sure to tell us how it goes!
Quote from: tenbones;1062207I'm about to start playing in a Pinkerton game like that next week! Pinkerton is a big deal in Deadlands.
I'm sure they are, Pinkerton was 10x what the most out there tin foil hat brigade member worried Blackwater might become. I'm sure they make great what if fodder for a distopian vision of the old west.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1062821I'm sure they are, Pinkerton was 10x what the most out there tin foil hat brigade member worried Blackwater might become. I'm sure they make great what if fodder for a distopian vision of the old west.
Well I'm not GMing... so we'll see.
I'm playing the Chinese manservant of another player who is an actual Pinkerton agent, and we're starting in Salt Lake City investigating the disappearance of another agent. What the other players don't know is that I'm a Shaolin monk that is being hunted by a crazy Christian religious sect of Chinese converts that destroyed my temple. And they might be the same people behind the disappearance.
Savage Worlds has a whole book dedicated to Pinkerton... I'm avoiding reading it because I want it all to unfold in-game. But it looks cool as well. Good times are afoot.
The Pinkertons were both tremendously effective, and also absolute sons of bitches.