Quote from: Zachary The First;758600That's a pretty good question--I'm a C&C fan, for example. Anything that stands out as something that might make a C&C fan want to try this out, or is it more of a compatible game I might want to use for inspiration and add-ons?

You have more options to pick from when you level up your characters.

High level play may be easier and more fun to run than classic editions other than OD&D core book only.

From the looks of it, you will always be able to do something even against the toughest of creatures. But will it be enough for you to drain their hit points faster than they can drain yours is another question entirely. It doesn't seem like a case where you going miss, miss, miss, spell resisted, spell saved, miss, miss all the time like with AD&D 1st or OD&D.

Just thought of short but accurate answer to those happy with classic D&D or a retro-clone.

D&D 5e will likely be your second favorite game and a common ground you can share with the general mass of D&D players.

Quote from: estar;758609From the looks of it, you will always be able to do something even against the toughest of creatures.

And the wimpiest creatures will always be able to do something against you? Will a pack of wild dogs remain dangerous, in sufficient (though not ridiculous) numbers? That's been a general litmus test of mine for games... though I know it's not been a D&D thing.

Quote from: Simlasa;758611And the wimpiest creatures will always be able to do something against you? Will a pack of wild dogs remain dangerous, in sufficient (though not ridiculous) numbers? That's been a general litmus test of mine for games... though I know it's not been a D&D thing.

Yes I think this is true. Even I got hit with a 18 AC and with bad luck I would be in trouble with the bonus I estimated everything had. Looking over the rules there is little I could to do that up into the low 20s. With the bottom level of creatures having a to hit bonus that meant a horde was a threat even if I did manage to get max AC. While they may had a 15% or 10% chance of hitting me, they would have enough hit points and AC that I would run out of hit points before chopping down the last of the horde.

Quote from: estar;758613While they may had a 15% or 10% chance of hitting me, they would have enough hit points and AC that I would run out of hit points before chopping down the last of the horde.

YAY!

Quote from: estar;758607There was a wizard plinking away with at will magic missiles. The decisive different in melee was me, Paladin, the fighter, and the ranger. The cleric was needed as some party members got mauled. The Thief was definitely up to no good at times doing thief stuff.

I guess the best way to put it is that it more like OD&D than anything else. Everybody does everything but some people are really good at certain things. And they are good enough that it would a stupid tactic to have other try doing it themselves. Like having the mage on the front line. Or the fighter trying to first aid a downed comrade. Or my paladin trying to sneak up on a sentry.

I could sneak if I had too (And did once despite the disadvantage) but I generally let the thief and ranger deal with that when it was needed. In the warehouse the party stuck me behind some boxes and I was to charge out when needed.

For those who don't watch I am talking about with OD&D. In the 1974 rules, everybody started on the same to hit chart. If you played with the three core rule book only, everybody did the same damage. Moreso, the hit points were not as dramatically different. A magic user could have 5 hits points and a fighter 8.

The only mechanical difference is that Fighter and Clerics could wear any armor while magic user couldn't.

Plus there was no rules on picking locks, sneaking, etc. No thieves as well. So a OD&D pretty much divied task based on player ability or attribute. For example the fighter with a 16 dex may be the one tapped to sneak up on the sentry as opposed to the 6 dex klutz.

D&D 5e feels like that only with more solid mechanics to resolve things with.

I really don't think you could ask for more. And if it's easily modded this could be big. Seriously sounds about as good as realistically imaginable.

Thanks for the report, ester.

Quote from: estar;758610Just thought of short but accurate answer to those happy with classic D&D or a retro-clone.

D&D 5e will likely be your second favorite game and a common ground you can share with the general mass of D&D players.

Sounds promising!

Quote from: estar;758607There was a wizard plinking away with at will magic missiles.

Are you sure it was magic missile, not ray of frost or something? Magic Missile isn't a cantrip in the last playtest or the starter set.

Quote from: LibraryLass;758644Are you sure it was magic missile, not ray of frost or something? Magic Missile isn't a cantrip in the last playtest or the starter set.

I assumed he misspoke because the Starter Set shows Magic Missile as a 1st level spell. And Ray of Frost as a cantrip. I was more or less asking if whatever the wizard was doing with cantrips combat wise bothered him all that much given his overall report is very positive. And I trust what Estar says, he knows his Dnd especially if it feels like old school. Or at least something like 1/2e (which is all I care about).

Quote from: LibraryLass;758644Are you sure it was magic missile, not ray of frost or something? Magic Missile isn't a cantrip in the last playtest or the starter set.

It was the  magical ranged attack from the playtest set.



Yeah it Ray of Frost. Cantrips can be cast at will. Ray of Frost does 1d8, slow creatures by 10 ft. And you need to make a to hit roll.

And while we are on magic. You still have spell slots but you "prepare" a list of spells (modified by Intelligence, etc). Then pick a spell slot to cast it with during combat. Out of slots means no more prepared spells can be cast. Often casting a spell through a higher level slot means a better effect. There is a minimum level which is the level of the spell. Prepared spells are noticeably better than the cantrips.

Quote from: estar;758567One thing I didn't mention which I think it is an important point everybody misses. Fighter and Magic-users have the EXACT same chances of hitting somebody, your proficiency bonus. The difference is in the fact magic-user can only get this with simple melee weapons, fighters have a much broader selection that does more damage.

Thanks for the write-up!

Do you mean to say that the proficiency bonus and stat bonus is the only difference in to-hits, or did you mean to say ... exactly what you said?  I took it to mean that there's no difference in initial attack bonus or the progression, but that STR or DEX or what-have-you is still in the mix.

On a scale of roll-a-d20-until-your-eyes-bleed and 8-million-ways-to-attack, how did playing a melee character seem?

cThanks for the write-up!

Do you mean to say that the proficiency bonus and stat bonus is the only difference in to-hits, or did you mean to say ... exactly what you said?  I took it to mean that there's no difference in initial attack bonus or the progression, but that STR or DEX or what-have-you is still in the mix.[/QUOTE]

Yeah sorry about that. You to hit bonus comprised of your proficiency bonus and your stat bonus. All classes have the same proficiency bonus.

[/QUOTE]On a scale of roll-a-d20-until-your-eyes-bleed and 8-million-ways-to-attack, how did playing a melee character seem?[/QUOTE]

Pretty good, at first level my AC 18 was great to have. At 2nd level the Divine Smite provided a nice edge when I need to do a lot of damage. The Wizard provided the occasional big boom and was a constant help between spells with his cantrips.

When the charops people dig into this likely they will focus on the amount of damage per round and various situations. But the things because combat is resolve quickly there is a lot more time for roleplaying which result what actually happens varies a lot. Something that really hurts in trying to make an optimized character.

From what I understand magic using classes get a proficiency bonus on their spells also so it's to their advantage to use an attack cantrip over a weapon unless you multi-class because you likely won't have attack cantrips and you're a MAD character automatically.

Yes everybody gets the same to-hit progression but your profiencency bonus is added for weapons it's STR/DEX for mages magic is INT we don't know about sorcerers or warlocks yet. I assume WIS for clerics, druids and rangers and CHR for bards, paladins and sorcerers with warlocks being pact dependent.

Quote from: Marleycat;758711From what I understand magic using classes get a proficiency bonus on their spells also so it's to their advantage to use an attack cantrip over a weapon unless you multi-class because you likely won't have attack cantrips and you're a MAD character automatically.

What's 'MAD'?

Quote from: Simlasa;758713What's 'MAD'?

Multiple Attribute Dependence(dependency). Single class class characters have 1-2 attributes they usually boost a multi-class character has minimum 2 and likely 3-4 they may look to boost.