I got into a session of D&D Next at the Origins Game Fair. It was Shards of Icewind Dale part of the Legacy of the Crystal Shards. I played Sir Endless Star a Paladin of Torm. We played at 1st levels for the first half of the adventure and 2nd level for the second half.
The adventure proper involved us as guards escorting a caravan to one of the Ten Towns of the Icewind dale. We got attacked by Saber-Tooth Tigers and one of the wagons get knocked over during the fight. The party won but the carvanmaster wanted to leave the wagon and its merchant behind. The party agreed to stay and help. In the course of doing so we found a crate full of silver weapons which was a very unusual piece of cargo.
We fixed up the wagon and begin moving to the town. Contrary nothing bad happen along the way. That is not until we hit the town. Even tho we started out hour behind the rest of the caravan, the traffic jam at the gate meant they were still trying to get through. Just as we had the town in sight a bunch of yetis attacked.
We rushed down to the gate and threw ourselves into the fray. After several minutes of combat we managed to get the wagons in (including the one we were escorting) and shut the gates.
In the aftermath, we learned that yetis are solitary creatures and this was very unusual. We were paid off for our caravan work and helped with the clean up. During the clean up a merchant from the local apothecary caught several of the party's ears. He had a tale of woe about he paid for protection from somebody named Slim and got nothing for it. Especially since he felt had to the "protection" money.
Talking with the local sheriff, I found out that Slim was known for hiring out guards. Most of the party was excited about going after Slim and getting the merchant's money back. I reminded them that we are strangers in this town, that we had no authority, that we had only one side of the story. They were ready to ignore me until I firmly stated that if they did this as the Torm's hand on Faerun I would oppose them.
We compromised on acting as the merchant's agent. I again pointed out that we did this right that having the merchant as a friend could help us as we were strangers here. Do this wrong we would be either imprisoned or forced to leave in the midst of a snow storm with yetis on the prowl.
So we headed to the Northwind Tavern where Slim lived. We got directions to his rooms. Before I could knock, one of the more enthusiastic party members kicked down the door. For a second I thought out in the storm would be our ultimate destination. But Torm was with us and we caught the inhabitants of the room in the midst of a murder. Moreso one of the perpetrators was a Wererat. We all rushed into the room but the wererat was took quick. He shapeshifted into to a small rat and escaped.
I went into the room and with my sword point at one of remaining human throat announced that I was Torm's Hand on Faerun, that they were outnumber and retribution would fall if they did not surrendered. They exercised their better judgment and surrendered.
From the information gathered, we uncovered a conspiracy where Slim and his thugs were conspiring with one of the town leaders to take over. The Yetis were magically controlled and sent in to create chaos. The party learned they had supplies at the warehouse they needed to retrieve. We laid an ambush and broke the back of their conspiracy in the ensuing fight.
How quick was combat? What was the player experience level at the table? Anything that raised eyebrows for any of the participants?
Thanks for sharing!
The mechanical details.
The referee was component. On the plus side he made rulings competently and did well with some of our off the wall choices. He used starburst for monsters and gave you the candy if you were the one that killed the creatures. On the downside, he read the boilerplate text incessantly. He was good it at so it wasn't quite the grind it could have been.
When I referee the players have to describe what they are doing first and then I would tell what rolls are needed. Our referee asked for rolls first too many times especially with the skill system. Before anybody start bitching about D&D Next skills, AD&D/OD&D referee had similar issues with stat checks like bend bars, etc. What I saw in this game in 2014 was not out of the realm of possibility for a 1980 AD&D 1st game.
The character sheet is about as a stat heavy as any other classic D&D character sheet. The main difference is that they include the actual rules for all the abilities. With their setup a total novice could play just using the sheet for a reference. Yet the rules are simple enough that you can just write it up old style with name of the ability or skill.
You have some class abilities. They are written up pretty much in the style of classic D&D. For example Lay on Hands: Heal up to 5/hp per level. You can exchange 5 pts of healing for a removing a disease, or neutralize a poison.
You had some background detail. My paladin was from a noble family and had a noble title.
Skills are present, you are marked proficient in certain skills which means you get your proficiency bonus to your skill roll. However like my own Majestic Wilderlands it appears any character can attempt any skill.
Low attributes can not only give you a minus to a skill roll be give you a disadvantage. I had dex low enough that it gave me disadvantage to stealth.
First Combat (saber-tooth tigers)
Found out that initiative is a 1d20 plus dex. It possible to be proficient in initiative.
I threw a javelin and then got a few hits in with the broadsword. I had an AC 18 which is a big things compared to what we fought.
The fight was over in ten minutes. One party member (out of six) got mauled badly and a few more got hit. With bad luck the fight could have gone against us.
A lot more time was spent roleplaying with the merchant and the wagon that got knocked over. Here the roll first issues I mentioned above first cropped up.
Second Combat (yetis)
This was a big fight with a dozen yetis around the battefield and one boss Yeti. Thanks to the party working together we were never in serious trouble but most of the party including myself got dinged up. The referee and the rules were able to handle my character and others grappling when a party member got caught in a yeti bear hug.
It was during this fight that it was obvious that AC and to hit bonuses are not a big part of the game. What made a creature truly tough is that they soaked up a lot of hit points. My Ac 18 was at a top end and a major assest even with the boss Yeti.
The fight took 15 minutes and it was longer because there were two waves of attacks. The roleplaying afterwards took longer to play out.
Third Combat (were-rats and humans)
This was very short as it involved the wererat winning initiative, and escaping. I had a good initiative roll and used to barge into the room. I shouted "I am the Hand of Torm on Faerun, etc" After I was done I ask the reeferee what I need to roll. He gave me a Persuasion check with a bonus for roleplaying. I rolled a 23 or something and the four remaining humans surrendered.
While I don't like when referee ask for rolls firsts. The players can't place all the blame on the referee either. It is a two way street. You, the player, need to also roleplay first. Since I knew this referee consistently rolled first, I didn't give him a chance with me. When my turn came up I did the action and the roleplaying and THEN asked him for the ruling.
I know some player get bent about not knowing the rules before an action. But sometimes you need to let go of that and just do what you would do if you were really there.
By me doing this, I think I helped the game with being a asshole to the referee.
Afterwards we did some investigation and a lot talking with various NPCs. Afterwhich we setup the warehouse ambush.
Fourth Combat (humans)
Dan, Tim and I are long time D&D players. The same for the other three guys in the party. Between everybody there we probably had a century worth of experience playing D&D. The ambush in the warehouse showcased our this experience. The party never lost control of the fight, again we suffered a few hits but within ten minutes we mopped up the opposition.
It was getting close to midnight at this point. I was feeling run down and several other of the players as well. Graciously the referee just narrated the rest of the module and he did a pretty good job of it. So we had some resolution to the game.
Impressions
Overall the flow of D&D Next is exactly the same as the various classic editions D&D. Nothing like the 4e adventures I played at previous cons. The vast majority of our time was roleplaying with the NPCs and dealing with party. Pretty much like how I experienced it in 1980 and the various OSR games I been in it.
The details are as different as 2nd edition is different than 1st edition as different than B/X, than OD&D, etc. It could have been easily a Blood & Treasure game or Castles & Crusades.
The only thing I heard about D&D 4e was bitching and moaning. There were some, yeah I liked it but.... Everybody either was excited about the 40th anniversary classic D&D games or the D&D Next games.
I want to play a high level D&D next game. I don't think it will be the same issues as 3.X but if there are issues it will be there. I think low to mid level they got it covered. I have a good feeling about bounded accuracy and use of advantage and disadvantage.
I think much of the hand wringing is overrated. The system looks mallable enough to do whatever you want. Want to jack up the customization with feats and abilities. Want to go into hard core old school mode, you can ignore feats and background. The remaining abilities are no more complex then they were in 1st edition.
Quote from: Zachary The First;758545How quick was combat? What was the player experience level at the table? Anything that raised eyebrows for any of the participants?
Thanks for sharing!
I broke it up into two post. One with the story of what went on. And the second with the mechanical details.
Thanks for this report. It's helpful.
1) 10-15 minutes per fight doesn't sound bad and I imagine it'd be faster with an experienced group.
2) You fought sabertoothed tigers, yeti, and wererats at those levels without getting slaughtered. That sounds awesome. I'm a bit worried that bounded accuracy will limit the ability to use lots of low-level monsters (despite assurances that it's been fixed now), but I like that low-level characters aren't limited to fighting kobolds and housecats.
3) Starbursts as minis and reward is an AWESOME idea.
Quote from: estar;758549I broke it up into two post. One with the story of what went on. And the second with the mechanical details.
Yeah, sorry, I saw your second post come in right after I made mine. Thanks for the details!
Quote from: Zeea;7585621) 10-15 minutes per fight doesn't sound bad and I imagine it'd be faster with an experienced group.
The Wererat murder scene, and the warehouse fight were over really quickly. The yeti fight was the longest.
Quote from: Zeea;7585622) You fought sabertoothed tigers, yeti, and wererats at those levels without getting slaughtered. That sounds awesome. I'm a bit worried that bounded accuracy will limit the ability to use lots of low-level monsters (despite assurances that it's been fixed now), but I like that low-level characters aren't limited to fighting kobolds and housecats.
I think the biggest factor with bounded accuracy is being able to out number your opponent. With the saber-tooth tigers, they had some hit points behind them but there was six of us blanket beating them and two of them.
The yetis had the numbers but we quickly moved to the gateway where they could only attack a few at time. We ground them down at a steady pace. But if they cracked our line we would have been in trouble.
One thing I didn't mention which I think it is an important point everybody misses. Fighter and Magic-users have the EXACT same chances of hitting somebody, your proficiency bonus. The difference is in the fact magic-user can only get this with simple melee weapons, fighters have a much broader selection that does more damage.
That what pretty much set my Paladin, the Ranger, and the Fighter apart from everybody else. We could do more damage with our weapons than the other classes.
So far it all sounds good to me. I am excited to get my hands on some actual books.
Wow, good information seems like it should lessen most people's anxiety surrounding the game. Glad to have it confirmed that anybody can try any skill and that the bounded accuracy thing seems to work.
If high level isn't a trainwreck they may have something huge on their hands.
Your party was obviously inexperienced.
You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't spit into the wind. You don't pull the mask off the ol lone ranger and you don't mess around with Slim!
Quote from: estar;758547It could have been easily a Blood & Treasure game or Castles & Crusades.
So what sets it apart from those games in feeling? If I were already playing C&C what might make me want to try out 5e or even switch over to it... vs. just mining it for ideas or buying its modules for use in other games?
Were at-will cantrips an issue? If used did they break the Dnd feel for you? Was everyone allowed to do their specialty without some other class stealing their lunch money?
Quote from: Simlasa;758595So what sets it apart from those games in feeling? If I were already playing C&C what might make me want to try out 5e or even switch over to it... vs. just mining it for ideas or buying its modules for use in other games?
That's a pretty good question--I'm a C&C fan, for example. Anything that stands out as something that might make a C&C fan want to try this out, or is it more of a compatible game I might want to use for inspiration and add-ons?
Quote from: Simlasa;758595So what sets it apart from those games in feeling? If I were already playing C&C what might make me want to try out 5e or even switch over to it... vs. just mining it for ideas or buying its modules for use in other games?
1) While character customization is not as extensive as 3.X, it more than most editions of classic D&D. The closest OSR game would be Blood & Treasure when you use B&T feats.
2) If your into making characters classes, there are lot prebuilt mechanical knobs and dials built in. As with classic D&D you can add special abilities (lay on hands, druid shapshift, etc), but you can also play with proficiency, advantage/disadvantage, skills, and feats.
As far as can tell progressing along as class has some customization but it not free form like in 3.X. To get true variety, at least with the basic rules, you have to make more character classes. Similar to what I did with the Majestic Wilderlands vs Swords & Wizardry core rules.
3) Bounded Accuracy brings it own wrinkles. Tougher monsters don't have as high of an AC or to hit as you would expect. But they have the ability to more damage in a variety of ways, as well as more hit points.
My current feeling is that you will have to swap in stats from the edition of your choice. But D&D 5th modules will be otherwise usable in classic editions along with 3.X or Pathfinder. As far as 4e goes, the 5e modules will suffer the same issues as if you tried to run B2 Cave of Chaos as is with 4e. Combat will dominate the session time and the completion of the module will drag out.
Bounded Accuracy is similar to how OD&D plays in the difference between the very top and the very bottom. I experienced little issues and using OD&D to run AD&D module and vice versa. So I don't see any big issues other than the stat swap for running 5e modules with classic edition.
The game I participated could have very easily have been run using B/X or AD&d 1st.
Quote from: Marleycat;758598Were at-will cantrips an issue? If used did they break the Dnd feel for you? Was everyone allowed to do their specialty without some other class stealing their lunch money?
There was a wizard plinking away with at will magic missiles. The decisive different in melee was me, Paladin, the fighter, and the ranger. The cleric was needed as some party members got mauled. The Thief was definitely up to no good at times doing thief stuff.
I guess the best way to put it is that it more like OD&D than anything else. Everybody does everything but some people are really good at certain things. And they are good enough that it would a stupid tactic to have other try doing it themselves. Like having the mage on the front line. Or the fighter trying to first aid a downed comrade. Or my paladin trying to sneak up on a sentry.
I could sneak if I had too (And did once despite the disadvantage) but I generally let the thief and ranger deal with that when it was needed. In the warehouse the party stuck me behind some boxes and I was to charge out when needed.
For those who don't watch I am talking about with OD&D. In the 1974 rules, everybody started on the same to hit chart. If you played with the three core rule book only, everybody did the same damage. Moreso, the hit points were not as dramatically different. A magic user could have 5 hits points and a fighter 8.
The only mechanical difference is that Fighter and Clerics could wear any armor while magic user couldn't.
Plus there was no rules on picking locks, sneaking, etc. No thieves as well. So a OD&D pretty much divied task based on player ability or attribute. For example the fighter with a 16 dex may be the one tapped to sneak up on the sentry as opposed to the 6 dex klutz.
D&D 5e feels like that only with more solid mechanics to resolve things with.
Quote from: Zachary The First;758600That's a pretty good question--I'm a C&C fan, for example. Anything that stands out as something that might make a C&C fan want to try this out, or is it more of a compatible game I might want to use for inspiration and add-ons?
You have more options to pick from when you level up your characters.
High level play may be easier and more fun to run than classic editions other than OD&D core book only.
From the looks of it, you will always be able to do something even against the toughest of creatures. But will it be enough for you to drain their hit points faster than they can drain yours is another question entirely. It doesn't seem like a case where you going miss, miss, miss, spell resisted, spell saved, miss, miss all the time like with AD&D 1st or OD&D.
Just thought of short but accurate answer to those happy with classic D&D or a retro-clone.
D&D 5e will likely be your second favorite game and a common ground you can share with the general mass of D&D players.
Quote from: estar;758609From the looks of it, you will always be able to do something even against the toughest of creatures.
And the wimpiest creatures will always be able to do something against you? Will a pack of wild dogs remain dangerous, in sufficient (though not ridiculous) numbers? That's been a general litmus test of mine for games... though I know it's not been a D&D thing.
Quote from: Simlasa;758611And the wimpiest creatures will always be able to do something against you? Will a pack of wild dogs remain dangerous, in sufficient (though not ridiculous) numbers? That's been a general litmus test of mine for games... though I know it's not been a D&D thing.
Yes I think this is true. Even I got hit with a 18 AC and with bad luck I would be in trouble with the bonus I estimated everything had. Looking over the rules there is little I could to do that up into the low 20s. With the bottom level of creatures having a to hit bonus that meant a horde was a threat even if I did manage to get max AC. While they may had a 15% or 10% chance of hitting me, they would have enough hit points and AC that I would run out of hit points before chopping down the last of the horde.
Quote from: estar;758613While they may had a 15% or 10% chance of hitting me, they would have enough hit points and AC that I would run out of hit points before chopping down the last of the horde.
YAY!
Quote from: estar;758607There was a wizard plinking away with at will magic missiles. The decisive different in melee was me, Paladin, the fighter, and the ranger. The cleric was needed as some party members got mauled. The Thief was definitely up to no good at times doing thief stuff.
I guess the best way to put it is that it more like OD&D than anything else. Everybody does everything but some people are really good at certain things. And they are good enough that it would a stupid tactic to have other try doing it themselves. Like having the mage on the front line. Or the fighter trying to first aid a downed comrade. Or my paladin trying to sneak up on a sentry.
I could sneak if I had too (And did once despite the disadvantage) but I generally let the thief and ranger deal with that when it was needed. In the warehouse the party stuck me behind some boxes and I was to charge out when needed.
For those who don't watch I am talking about with OD&D. In the 1974 rules, everybody started on the same to hit chart. If you played with the three core rule book only, everybody did the same damage. Moreso, the hit points were not as dramatically different. A magic user could have 5 hits points and a fighter 8.
The only mechanical difference is that Fighter and Clerics could wear any armor while magic user couldn't.
Plus there was no rules on picking locks, sneaking, etc. No thieves as well. So a OD&D pretty much divied task based on player ability or attribute. For example the fighter with a 16 dex may be the one tapped to sneak up on the sentry as opposed to the 6 dex klutz.
D&D 5e feels like that only with more solid mechanics to resolve things with.
I really don't think you could ask for more. And if it's easily modded this could be big. Seriously sounds about as good as realistically imaginable.
Thanks for the report, ester.
Quote from: estar;758610Just thought of short but accurate answer to those happy with classic D&D or a retro-clone.
D&D 5e will likely be your second favorite game and a common ground you can share with the general mass of D&D players.
Sounds promising!
Quote from: estar;758607There was a wizard plinking away with at will magic missiles.
Are you sure it was magic missile, not ray of frost or something? Magic Missile isn't a cantrip in the last playtest or the starter set.
Quote from: LibraryLass;758644Are you sure it was magic missile, not ray of frost or something? Magic Missile isn't a cantrip in the last playtest or the starter set.
I assumed he misspoke because the Starter Set shows Magic Missile as a 1st level spell. And Ray of Frost as a cantrip. I was more or less asking if whatever the wizard was doing with cantrips combat wise bothered him all that much given his overall report is very positive. And I trust what Estar says, he knows his Dnd especially if it feels like old school. Or at least something like 1/2e (which is all I care about).
Quote from: LibraryLass;758644Are you sure it was magic missile, not ray of frost or something? Magic Missile isn't a cantrip in the last playtest or the starter set.
It was the magical ranged attack from the playtest set.
Yeah it Ray of Frost. Cantrips can be cast at will. Ray of Frost does 1d8, slow creatures by 10 ft. And you need to make a to hit roll.
And while we are on magic. You still have spell slots but you "prepare" a list of spells (modified by Intelligence, etc). Then pick a spell slot to cast it with during combat. Out of slots means no more prepared spells can be cast. Often casting a spell through a higher level slot means a better effect. There is a minimum level which is the level of the spell. Prepared spells are noticeably better than the cantrips.
Quote from: estar;758567One thing I didn't mention which I think it is an important point everybody misses. Fighter and Magic-users have the EXACT same chances of hitting somebody, your proficiency bonus. The difference is in the fact magic-user can only get this with simple melee weapons, fighters have a much broader selection that does more damage.
Thanks for the write-up!
Do you mean to say that the proficiency bonus and stat bonus is the only difference in to-hits, or did you mean to say ... exactly what you said? I took it to mean that there's no difference in initial attack bonus or the progression, but that STR or DEX or what-have-you is still in the mix.
On a scale of roll-a-d20-until-your-eyes-bleed and 8-million-ways-to-attack, how did playing a melee character seem?
cThanks for the write-up!
Do you mean to say that the proficiency bonus and stat bonus is the only difference in to-hits, or did you mean to say ... exactly what you said? I took it to mean that there's no difference in initial attack bonus or the progression, but that STR or DEX or what-have-you is still in the mix.[/QUOTE]
Yeah sorry about that. You to hit bonus comprised of your proficiency bonus and your stat bonus. All classes have the same proficiency bonus.
[/QUOTE]On a scale of roll-a-d20-until-your-eyes-bleed and 8-million-ways-to-attack, how did playing a melee character seem?[/QUOTE]
Pretty good, at first level my AC 18 was great to have. At 2nd level the Divine Smite provided a nice edge when I need to do a lot of damage. The Wizard provided the occasional big boom and was a constant help between spells with his cantrips.
When the charops people dig into this likely they will focus on the amount of damage per round and various situations. But the things because combat is resolve quickly there is a lot more time for roleplaying which result what actually happens varies a lot. Something that really hurts in trying to make an optimized character.
From what I understand magic using classes get a proficiency bonus on their spells also so it's to their advantage to use an attack cantrip over a weapon unless you multi-class because you likely won't have attack cantrips and you're a MAD character automatically.
Yes everybody gets the same to-hit progression but your profiencency bonus is added for weapons it's STR/DEX for mages magic is INT we don't know about sorcerers or warlocks yet. I assume WIS for clerics, druids and rangers and CHR for bards, paladins and sorcerers with warlocks being pact dependent.
Quote from: Marleycat;758711From what I understand magic using classes get a proficiency bonus on their spells also so it's to their advantage to use an attack cantrip over a weapon unless you multi-class because you likely won't have attack cantrips and you're a MAD character automatically.
What's 'MAD'?
Quote from: Simlasa;758713What's 'MAD'?
Multiple Attribute Dependence(dependency). Single class class characters have 1-2 attributes they usually boost a multi-class character has minimum 2 and likely 3-4 they may look to boost.
A good read. Thank you.
Excited again now.
Thanks, Rob. This kind of concrete information, conveyed with personal impressions from someone with no personal or (yet) professional stakes in the matter, lends an immense degree of credibility and positive vibe to 5e discussions. Well done!
Quote from: estar;758607TI guess the best way to put it is that it more like OD&D than anything else. Everybody does everything but some people are really good at certain things. [...] For those who don't watch I am talking about with OD&D. In the 1974 rules, everybody started on the same to hit chart. If you played with the three core rule book only, everybody did the same damage. Moreso, the hit points were not as dramatically different. A magic user could have 5 hits points and a fighter 8.
The only mechanical difference is that Fighter and Clerics could wear any armor while magic user couldn't.
I'm interested to see how and whether this changes as PCs go up in level? One of my favourite D&D 3.x sessions was a 1st level one-shot where someone played a bard with 18 Strength. He smashed that goblin cave to pieces and put our fighter to shame. But that was because, at 1st level, 3.x PCs are more stat-heavy than later, when more and more class abilities (or feats) kick in.
PS.
Not a fan of hp-inflated monsters, but as 4e has proven,this can be houseruled easily.
Estar, it sounds like your experiences match mine pretty much exactly with all of the playtest docs, so it's nice to have some sort of informal confirmation that yes, the final game is pretty much close to the final playtest packet.
When I say that I'm an old school player who enjoys 5e because it allows me to play the same style as 1e, I get accused of being a 5avior, or that I'm obviously wrong and you can't play 5e in an old school style (ahem Cadriel). so hopefully the more people who say the same thing as you and I have done, people might start actually believing it.
On a side related note, I am very anxious to see first hand how bounded accuracy works with numorous low level monsters vs. mid to high level PCs. That's one thing I never really got a chance to work out. But I do have an adventure where there is a clan of kobolds, and the PCs will be expected to be around level 5-7 by then. I suspect kobolds + giant rats (both level 1, but both with pact tactics) will make them still deadly to higher level PCs.
Quote from: Windjammer;758764Thanks, Rob. This kind of concrete information, conveyed with personal impressions from someone with no personal or (yet) professional stakes in the matter, lends an immense degree of credibility and positive vibe to 5e discussions. Well done!
I'm interested to see how and whether this changes as PCs go up in level? One of my favourite D&D 3.x sessions was a 1st level one-shot where someone played a bard with 18 Strength. He smashed that goblin cave to pieces and put our fighter to shame. But that was because, at 1st level, 3.x PCs are more stat-heavy than later, when more and more class abilities (or feats) kick in.
PS. Not a fan of hp-inflated monsters, but as 4e has proven,this can be houseruled easily.
We need to know how much damage the pc's put out to decide if monsters have too many hp.
Quote from: Bill;758828We need to know how much damage the pc's put out to decide if monsters have too many hp.
Disclaimer: this is based off of the latest playtest, so there may be some minor changes, but the general idea should still be sound. also, 90% of my experience playing 5e is at levels 10 and below, so I can't speak from experience on high level damage.
That said, some numbers (assuming every attack hits):
Barbarian:
level 1: 1 attack, typical +2 or +3 bonus to damage from ability. Damage = 1d8+3 (+2 if raging), or 8-9 points of damage per round
level 10: 2 attacks, typical +3 or +4 due to ability, +1 or +2 from magic weapon = 2(1d8+4+1), or 18-20 points of damage per round, rage up to total 24-26 points of damage per round
level 20: 2 attacks, typical +4 from ability, +2 from magic item = 2(1d8+4+2), or 19-21 points of damage per round, rage up to 27-29 points of damage per round
Special: high level barbarians have abilities to get an extra attack in, or do an additional die of damage, but they are highly situational
Fighter:
level 1: 1 attack, typical +2 or +3 bonus to damage from ability. Damage = 1d8+3 = 7-8 points of damage per round
level 10: 2 attacks, +3 or +4 from ability, +1 or +2 from magic item. Damage = 2(1d8+4+1) = 18-20 points of damage per round
level 20: 4 attacks, +4 from ability, +2 from magic weapon. Damage = 4(1d8+4+2), or 40-44 points of damage per round
Special: fighters have action surge, which is a one or two time extra action (double attacks)
Rogue:
level 1: 1 attack, typical +2 or +3 bonus from ability (finesse weapon mostly). Damage = 1d8+3, or 7-8 points of damage. Sneak attack = 10-12 points of total damage
level 10: 1 attack, typical +3 or +4 from ability, +1 or +2 from magic item. Damage = 1d8+4+1= 9-10 points of damage, sneak attack = 19-23 points of damage
level 20: 1 attack, typical +4 from ability, +2 from magic item. Damage = 1d8+4+2 = 10-11 points of damage. Sneak attack = 34-36 points of damage per round
Special: In 5e, sneak attack is applicable a lot more frequently than in older editions. with tactics and character planning, you could apply it on nearly every attack. Assassins also automatically do max damage (55-57 points at level 20) if attacking from surprise. All level 16+ rogues also do double damage if attacking from surprise if the target fails a CON saving throw (so up to 110 points if you're an assassin).
Mage (evoker, at will cantrip = ray of frost, using fireball as damage spell)
level 1: at will: 1d8, or 4-5 points of damage. Level 1 burning hands (use 2x): 3d6 if fail dex save = 9-11 damage
level 10: at will: 3d8, or 12-15 points of damage. Level 5 fireball (use 2x): 8d6, or 24-32 points of damage. Level 4 fireball is 7d6, and level 3 fireball is 6d6. If you used all your level 3, 4, and 5 slots for fireball, you can cast it 8 times before long rest
Level 20: at will: 5d8, or 20-25 points of damage. Level 9 fireball does 12d6 damage, and works it's way down like above. If you used all of your level 3 and higher slots on fireballs, you could cast a total of 12 before long rest.
Special: evokers can do max damage with any spell level 3 or lower. Use one time (without risk) between long rests. Also, level 20 evokers can cast fireball or lightning bolt pretty much as at will (so their level 20 at will = 6d6 damage, or 18-24 points of damage)
TL;DR version:
Level 1:
barbarian: 8-9 points per round
fighter: 7-8 ppr
rogue: 7-8 ppr
mage: 4-5 (with limited big shots)
Level 10:
barbarian: 25 ppr
fighter: 19 ppr
rogue: 22 ppr
mage: 13 ppr
Level 20:
barbarian: 30 ppr
fighter: 40 ppr
rogue: 35 ppr
mage: 22 ppr
Quote from: estar;758610D&D 5e will likely be your second favorite game and a common ground you can share with the general mass of D&D players.
High praise indeed, especially the comparison with Blood & Treasure (our Non-TSR D&D of choice). Also the best report to grace this forum.
It's good to hear that you all had a positive role playing experience and that the game wasn't *utterly ruined* by all the little fiddly rules we've all been arguing about over the past month. The game you described sounds like D&D to me.
Quote from: languagegeek;758855High praise indeed, especially the comparison with Blood & Treasure (our Non-TSR D&D of choice). Also the best report to grace this forum.
It's good to hear that you all had a positive role playing experience and that the game wasn't *utterly ruined* by all the little fiddly rules we've all been arguing about over the past month. The game you described sounds like D&D to me.
It probably does help to play it before one decides they don't like it.
Quote from: Bill;758856It probably does help to play it before one decides they don't like it.
Inconceivable!!!
Quote from: Bill;758856It probably does help to play it before one decides they don't like it.
Why should this edition get special treatment as compared to the last? :)
(Before anyone gets after my user name, I've played 1.66E, 2E, Black Box Basic, 3E, 3.5 and 4E to at least some degree. And I freely admit that many of my issues with 1E and 3.X are flavor-oriented and/or theoretical. :) )
Quote from: Bill;758856It probably does help to play it before one decides they don't like it.
... or decides it's 'the best game EVER!'
Quote from: Simlasa;759410... or decides it's 'the best game EVER!'
We are on to something here....
Several months ago, after digging into the playtest rules my feeling this sounds a LOT like my Majestic Wilderlands rules + Swords & Wizardry. Of course there are differences.
Probably the biggest intersection point is MW Abilities vs 5e Skill. In both games any class can attempt any skill. In both games some classes are better at some skill. Both are d20 roll high versus target difficulty. With target number at intervals of 5 (10, 15, 20, etc). Both list are of similar length.
Then there the big difference. In MW I have a fixed skill progression chart unique for each class with no choice. In 5e you have a proficiency bonus that is applied equally to all skills you are proficient in.
The rest of 5e has a similar progression to OD&D which is what Swords & Wizardry is based on. So the short of it that playing a 5e game felt a lot like playing my S&W + MW game. My recent experience at Origins confirmed that nothing has changed that regard and I feel it won't change when the Starter Set is released.
That even with the advanced books it not likely to change but there will be a wider variety of characters compared to Basic 5e or my SW + MW game.
Thank you for this report, Rob! And for the record, MW was one of the old-school products I put on Mearls' "required reading" list. It showed very well (along with DCC) just what you CAN do in terms of innovation and still be "old school".
How did advantage/disadvantage work during the game? I was prompted to ask by discussion in another thread, but this thread deserves more love because it's actual first hand play, of course.
Quote from: Natty Bodak;759944How did advantage/disadvantage work during the game? I was prompted to ask by discussion in another thread, but this thread deserves more love because it's actual first hand play, of course.
It worked and made sense where it appeared. I planned my tactics to avoid sneaking around because I was at a disadvantage because of armor. The one time I had to I roll a pair of 13s with a target of 10. So amazingly I made it.
Define "Boss" Yeti. Simply more HD/HP etc or something else to it?
Quote from: CRKrueger;759952Define "Boss" Yeti. Simply more HD/HP etc or something else to it?
The Boss yeti doesn't attack much. It just sits around thinkin about glory days.
Quote from: CRKrueger;759952Define "Boss" Yeti. Simply more HD/HP etc or something else to it?
I am hopeful that many monsters hit like a truck instead of just being a sack of hp.
Quote from: CRKrueger;759952Define "Boss" Yeti. Simply more HD/HP etc or something else to it?
More Damage, more hit points. I think double the hit points. Regular yetis (around 12) Boss yeti (between 24 to 30). Same AC I think. damage for yetis was 1d4 plus something for the boss it was a 1d6 plus something. The boss yeti had two attacks.