After picking up a few at a vintage toy shop, I've recently become quite fascinated with 1970s D&D and other fantasy pewter miniature figurines. I'm not overly fond using them in games, or at least not often, but they are remarkable little things themselves. I know there are several types of these things, but I don't know anything else.
Does anyone have any fond memories of these little pewter D&D figures? What was it like at the time when they started becoming available? Did it change the way people approached the game? Were they considered just a cheap cash-grab, embraced as nifty, or both?
I'm interested to hear stories.
//Panjumanju
We used them in the 80s a lot. Sometimes we break out the battle map and use them now. Back then they were making them out of lead I think. Pretty fun to paint.
I own a few. I don't think we ever used them 'on the mat'. We used lead, paper or plastic toys. The plastic figures from the D&D board games were great. Now you can pick up cheap HeroClix figures to. The pewter figures stay on the art shelf.
one of my first experiences into gaming had minis in 1981. To say I loved them was an understatement. I immediately made my own paper minis and spent hours drawing and cutting them out.
I still have them all, and they are still some of my favorites, although the PCs are hard to use with modern minis because of the scale difference.. But actual pewter ones? I probably have maybe 2 dozen of them out of the several hundred total.
I do miss the ral partha 3 mini progressive sets though, where you had the same PC but in three different stages of level progression
I liked the Call of Cthulhu ones better. Sane, Adventurer, and Lunatic. :D
(http://http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae62/Yourswordismine/First%20Timers/IMG_0719_zpscc86cf55.jpg)
Yup, I remember Ral Partha as one of the definitive lines of minis. I still have probably 20+ from the 1980s... we tended to only get the individual or small-group minis to paint that represented the PCs (and usually only to show marching order), and just wing it with monsters using whatever we had to hand, but I still have about 15 skeleton minis.
Still think skellies are the best and most underrepresented critters in most games. One of the things I loved about 3e was that I could scale up skellies to keep them a threat at any level. :)
The ones I got say Ral Partha on the bottom. Of their material I may be mistaken, they may be lead and not pewter. I just assumed. I am a poor metallurgist. I just think the figures are neat.
//Panjumanju
Vintage minis are a sub-hobby of its own. Very few of them are actually pewter, although I'm no expert. I think pewter became a little more common later on in the 80s and beyond due to the lead toxicity.
I certainly have fond memories of Citadel, Ral Partha and Martial Metals miniatures. Looking at them in awe in their packs in the stores at a young age, knowing that they were more than just "toys" but tools in a sophisticated game.
Then later painting up my figures and using them in games, but realising that they were just toys that didn't really add to my gaming. (Of course, for some groups they undoubtedly did, but I just never played in a tactical style).
They started with Lead but then moved to a Pewter mixture. You can tell the difference if you bend an arm or something on the mini, the pewter ones will have an audible sound as tin is much less malleable then lead. There were high grade pewter minis but they were more expensive.
Perth Pewter still does pewter minis, they bought some of the old Superior Models "Wizards and Lizards" line sculpts (like this one (http://www.perthpewter.com/achilles-greek-warrior-.html)), you can find them mixed in.
I started buying lead minis around 1984/85, I still use them in my games. In a 5e game I'm currently playing my PC is a hammer-wielding Citadel Minis samurai from 1984. You can buy them today:
(http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/files/cache/5802f9445bf9dd6459794495c6af0eae_f7597.png)
From http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/ex-citadel/samurai/
Quote from: CRKrueger;816328They started with Lead but then moved to a Pewter mixture. You can tell the difference if you bend an arm or something on the mini, the pewter ones will have an audible sound as tin is much less malleable then lead. There were high grade pewter minis but they were more expensive.
Perth Pewter still does pewter minis, they bought some of the old Superior Models "Wizards and Lizards" line sculpts (like this one (http://www.perthpewter.com/achilles-greek-warrior-.html)), you can find them mixed in.
Correct. There was a movement in I think the mid to late 80s to get lead out of minis as before that lead was what they all were made of pretty much.
Ral Partha was possibly the first to use pewter. I have a catalogue proclaiming "Made with Ralidium!" and as pressure mounted other companies switched to pewter as well.
One advantage of that was there was less chance of "lead rot". A binary chemical reaction that can destroy a lead mini. I've got a few boxes of those.
Theres still alot of companies that do metal minis. Reaper, etc. Think GW still does?
Quote from: Omega;816347Correct. There was a movement in I think the mid to late 80s to get lead out of minis as before that lead was what they all were made of pretty much.
I would have said ignorant panic or misapplied child safety measures (like I'd ever let some rug biter gnaw on my minis), but I remember the change.
Quote from: Omega;816347One advantage of that was there was less chance of "lead rot". A binary chemical reaction that can destroy a lead mini. I've got a few boxes of those.
On the con side, the non-lead minis were harder and less malleable making them more difficult to modify. Priming and painting seems to prevent the chemical reaction. I have a lot of miniatures and the painted ones are all fine. Of course now that I don't have the same interest in painting them, the unpainted minis feel sad and neglected.
I used to paint minis with one of my good friends. We'd have painting sessions. It made the time pass and it was nice to bounce ideas off of someone else, have a wider selection of paints to choose from, and to be able to be able to say, "hey look at this" and have a receptive audience. Sometimes my wife would sit down and paint as well. Sadly my friend passed away years ago. And work leaves less free time than it used to. I haven't painted as much since then. Playing on Skype doesn't give me much incentive to use either lead or faux-lead minis.
I've got about 30-40 "leads" from the 80s (we never called them minis). Near 1988, I packed away all my stuff: books, dice, leads... figuring I was done with gaming. The boxes ended up in someone's attic.
Then about 8 years ago, when I started up again, I had a really wonderful time unpacking everything. Each little figure triggered a memory of a campaign or character. It was a true time capsule and it was so fun to see them all again.
I never painted any of them due to lack of talent. Sure, a couple of them are missing a sword or something, but we still use the leads in our current games. I have since bought the Bones sets, but I usually reach for the old minis when I make a new character.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;816272I do miss the ral partha 3 mini progressive sets though, where you had the same PC but in three different stages of level progression
There's a new company doing that...I cant off the top of my head recall who, maybe Darksword? But they have an awesome 3-stage female thief which is very obviously Shiela from the D&D cartoon.
I got into D&D because of those goofy little figures. I was big into building model kits at the time (c. 1979), as well as Lord of the Rings, Earthsea, Narnia, etc. The local game store happened to be next to the comic shop I frequented, and the figures in the window caught my eye. Picked up a bunch of LotR kinda guys.
Then that led to getting my mitts on a board game called "Quest for the Magic Ring". And then I had to get more figures because I wanted to replace the stupid glass tokens in the game with little painted hobbits and orcs and things.
And then I was buying and painting so many of the figs, the guys in the store got to know me (note, I was about ten at the time), and started asking me about "my campaign". I had no idea what they were talking about, and they showed me this weird game with a dragon about to blast some guys on the cover. Looked neat, so saved up my allowance until I had the $10 to buy it.
The rest is history.
Two funny thing about the lead in lead minis...there was almost immediately an exception added specifically for lead gaming miniatures as long as they were marketed as "collectibles" and not "toys" (which was easy enough to do). Unfortunately "almost immediately" wasn't fast enough; miniature companies caught wind of what was coming down the pike with the initial ban on mostly-lead minis and switched to "pewter" or "white metal"...then the exception came out, and companies just stuck with pewter.
Reaper made high-lead content minis for a while under the brand-name P65 that were markedly cheaper than white metal (but more expensive than the plastic "Encounters" or "Bones" minis) but discontinued the line. I'm not sure if they didn't sell well or what. They were the same miniatures, just cast in a high-lead alloy. I bought one (female barbarian), can't really see any difference between those and the other metals.
Older sculpts were kind of crap but the fantasy miniature market was just finding itself; most companies produced blobby napoleonics, "modern" military (in a hobby where for a long, long time ACW was considered "modern!"), and so forth, so by the time companies started to meet the demand for fantasy themed minis the sculpting had catching up to do.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;816582Two funny thing about the lead in lead minis...there was almost immediately an exception added specifically for lead gaming miniatures as long as they were marketed as "collectibles" and not "toys" (which was easy enough to do). Unfortunately "almost immediately" wasn't fast enough; miniature companies caught wind of what was coming down the pike with the initial ban on mostly-lead minis and switched to "pewter" or "white metal"...then the exception came out, and companies just stuck with pewter.
.
Is there an advantage to using high-lead content?
I got my first minis in 1979, and over the next couple of years dropped something like a thousand dollars on them. The overwhelming number of them are mid-70s Ral Partha, but there are some Grenadier minis in there too, from boxed sets. There are a number of ones I have from the mid-80s, which I got from the best painter in our circle as a wedding present.
I've never stopped using them, and they give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Many I've never repainted except to touch them up, and I can look at them and recall the characters they represented and their doings over the years.
If I can get a clear enough phonecam shot of them I'll upload some ...
Quote from: TristramEvans;816583Is there an advantage to using high-lead content?
Depending on the composition of the white metal pewter, it can be much more brittle than lead. Weapons and pointy bits will break off rather than bend like high lead content mini will do.
Rackham had some some of the most brittle sculpts in the industry. The minis were very beautiful but also very fragile. Great for display but not for game play.
Quote from: Ravenswing;816588If I can get a clear enough phonecam shot of them I'll upload some ...
That would be great. I'd love to see some people's collections.
//Panjumanju
Quote from: Panjumanju;816625That would be great. I'd love to see some people's collections.
//Panjumanju
To hear is to obey! See if this works ok for you:
http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/chirinebakal/library/?sort=6&page=1 (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/chirinebakal/library/?sort=6&page=1)
I've been at this for a while, and cast up a lot of little warriors back in the day. The photos of are the antics we get up to in the basement; we still play, in the old-fashioned way... :)
Quote from: Panjumanju;816625That would be great. I'd love to see some people's collections.
//Panjumanju
Ask and ye shall receive. The top left are some of my favorite old Grenadier ones I painted 30 years ago. Time for a refresh :)
And this doesn't include the box full of bones minis I haven't put on the shelves yet.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g141/rajzwaibel/minis_zpsjttopujl.jpg)
Quote from: CRKrueger;816328They started with Lead but then moved to a Pewter mixture. You can tell the difference if you bend an arm or something on the mini, the pewter ones will have an audible sound as tin is much less malleable then lead. There were high grade pewter minis but they were more expensive.
Perth Pewter still does pewter minis, they bought some of the old Superior Models "Wizards and Lizards" line sculpts (like this one (http://www.perthpewter.com/achilles-greek-warrior-.html)), you can find them mixed in.
I just remember the ones I used to buy in the 80s said Lead on them (probably Ral Partha or something), and you could write with them almost like a pencil if you rubbed their sword tips on paper.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;816679Ask and ye shall receive. The top left are some of my favorite old Grenadier ones I painted 30 years ago. Time for a refresh :)
And this doesn't include the box full of bones minis I haven't put on the shelves yet.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g141/rajzwaibel/minis_zpsjttopujl.jpg)
(http://ownieu.owni.fr/files/2011/07/Like-Button.png)
I can't believe how detailed some of these miniatures are. They look very interesting.
All the care that goes into them shows.
//Panjumanju
Here's Shaedra, a Paladin PC of mine. Pewter Reaper mini, pretty recent though.
(http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/9/9/5/e/highres_222219262.jpeg)
Not sure I want to upload pics of the Citadel Miniatures I painted at age 12...
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;816681I just remember the ones I used to buy in the 80s said Lead on them (probably Ral Partha or something), and you could write with them almost like a pencil if you rubbed their sword tips on paper.
And dull the point of a Sword +1, +3 vs. Trolls? Man what were you thinking?
Nice pics both.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;816681I just remember the ones I used to buy in the 80s said Lead on them (probably Ral Partha or something), and you could write with them almost like a pencil if you rubbed their sword tips on paper.
Got some of those too.
Its also what makes unpainted lead minis hazardous and not just to kids.
The lead ban in California and New York really was overplayed by the industry, the distributors wanted the switch because lead was too fragile and the miniatures companies were only too happy to oblige because it allowed them to raise prices. Not that long ago there was a manufacturer on TMP who swore up and down that changing back to lead wasn't an option because it didn't work out to be any cheaper. The thing is the lead they use for casting still has a decent content of tin, zinc, and bismuth and none of those is cheap.
The reason Citadel had such poor detail on their miniatures in the early eighties is that they were using old wheel weights to cast their figures and had very little of the other metals in their alloy. This in turn led to the bigger, beefier GW style which eventually came to dominate the market. Well, that and they didn't have anyone who could match Tom Meir or Julie Gutherie's detail work for Ral Partha and Grenadier. Don't get me wrong the Perry Twins and Marc Copplestone can certainly manage it now but back in the day their skills just weren't there yet.
Here are those same 3 Grenadier minis after a touchup, as promised.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g141/rajzwaibel/minis2_zpsiue6z8px.jpg)
Quote from: Sacrosanct;816772Here are those same 3 Grenadier minis after a touchup, as promised.
What is the one in the middle? I don't think I've ever seen that mini. It is weird but cool. Great for some kind of boggle or other creature from the dark side of fairie.
Quote from: Bren;816802What is the one in the middle? I don't think I've ever seen that mini. It is weird but cool. Great for some kind of boggle or other creature from the dark side of fairie.
bugbear
Quote from: Sacrosanct;816803bugbear
I like it. :cool:
Early on, Ral Partha established themselves as my favorite (and they had a splendid little historical line, plus took over the Legions of the Petal Throne). The World of Greyhawk line from Minifigs looked very nice, though I never had any.
I couldn't afford much early on, so soft plastic Airfix and ESCI and Revell got use.
McEwan's Star Guard hit the scene around the same time as D&D, and had some popularity in my neck of the woods.
Martian Metals put out a ton of 15mm fantasy and sf models, cheap and convenient (especially for sf with vehicles, and for big egagements generally).
Later notables in my mind include Julie Guthrie's sculpting (I think for both Partha and Grenadier), Dragontooth, Archive, Rafm, and Prince August's Mithril Miniatures (Middle-earth) line - the last notably large in size (closer to 30s) as well as elegant (not garishly chunky like Games Workshop).
Grenadier UK had some nifty pieces for wargames or display; I recall particularly a huge giant carrying a missile platform.
Getting a good supply of monster figures was (and I think is) quite a challenge; there's always something for which one needs a substitute. Worse for me, I was drawn to exotic ones like a Napoleonic gamer who gets tons of Old Guard and skimps on the line. "What is this? It's not in the MM!" (Of course that's how a few critters in there got writ up in the first place, such as the rust monster iirc.)
When I got my first D&D box (the Basic set in the BECMI like) at John Menzies on Princes Street, Edinburgh, the Prince August "cast your own" figures were the ones on sale. They're still going strong!
I didn't get into minis until I encountered White Dwarf and the gaming shop on Forrest Road later in the year. Grenadier were good alternatives to Citadel, more realistic. Still got plenty of models from that era. The Grenadier stuff from the mid 80s - 90s is still available from eM-4 and Mirliton, and a lot of their ranges have aged well. One day I will have the undead war mammoth!
I seem to recall that it's the tin that is expensive. Tin-rich alloys also have a higher melting point so it's trickier to get good castings, especially on fine detail - you need to cut a lot of airvents as the liquid metal will cool and block them quickly, trapping air bubbles. You're working near the melting point of some mould rubbers too...
After 30 years of dropping boxes of minis :rolleyes: I'd say that it's the pewter alloys that break, lead bends or dents, and plastic mostly just rattles about. On the other hand, that softness makes lead minis easier to dent through normal wear and tear.
Fun fact - the grating feeling you get when you bend tin alloys is the long, thin tin crystals straining and rubbing against each other. Do it sharply enough and the tin squeaks :D
I just bought some Grenadier models last month. Iron Wind metals in Europe still has a lot of thier masters. I ordered from the Ratscum line, which are basically the only non-Skaven classic minis that are anywhere near acceptable. Still not to the level of Jes Goodwin, but then, what is?
(http://greywolf.critter.net/images/ahq/minis/gallery/skaven-standard-2.jpg)
Ral Partha was the first company I ever got minis from. I still remember my first: an Anti-Paladin.
The first metal minis I ever had were from the AD&D Battlesystem boxed set. Each of the force commanders was an unpainted metal miniature.
I had no hobby shops or anything where I lived, so they stayed unpainted for a while. A couple years later I wanted to try and paint them so I grabbed some old Testors enamel paints and made a real mess of them.
The paint job on those sucked. Real bad. By that time I had moved closer to civilization and found more minis and paints and I was hooked. Now I have tons of minis, metal and plastic.
Anyone remember the "Lost World of Atlantis" minis by I think Phoenix? Those were some pretty good sculpts from the late 70s.
Quote from: Omega;816964Anyone remember the "Lost World of Atlantis" minis by I think Phoenix? Those were some pretty good sculpts from the late 70s.
Seen them in White Dwarf - they were ca 64mm scale I think though, for dioaramas?
50mm if I recall correctly. Something like 1/42 scale compared to 25mm 1/64 scale? FFG a few years back tried to revive that scale with Inquisitor. Didnt take off. Same for the 50mm scale Mutant Chronicles revival.
Quote from: Tetsubo;816260I own a few. I don't think we ever used them 'on the mat'. We used lead, paper or plastic toys. The plastic figures from the D&D board games were great. Now you can pick up cheap HeroClix figures to. The pewter figures stay on the art shelf.
playing with lead miniatures seems really unhealthy (although to be fair i spend a lot of time with bullets so im not one to talk)
how long ago was it that they realised how bad for you it was
Quote from: Panjumanju;816625That would be great. I'd love to see some people's collections.
//Panjumanju
Only miniatures i have are from the set i brought when i first started and have never got to use as living in the middle of nowhere forces me to play by post and a bunch of unfinished stuff from my failed attempt to get into 40k (which failed because of that same geographical isolation but cant be as easily fixed by the internet)
I should get those barriers out and finish painting them i was quite proud of that bikes paint job crappy as it was.
I might try to round all that stuff up and get a picture maybe chuck the broken water tank i made in there to.
although i just checked a drawer and found a bunch of pokemon and simpsons toys i could use as well as something from the movie robots.
im off to go rummaging through old crap.
Quote from: tuypo1;817190im off to go rummaging through old crap.
I'm happy to encourage people to rummage through their old stuff.
//Panjumanju
Quote from: tuypo1;817188playing with lead miniatures seems really unhealthy (although to be fair i spend a lot of time with bullets so im not one to talk)
how long ago was it that they realised how bad for you it was
To my knowledge there is no evidence of any health hazard unless you are chewing on the miniatures or eating them. In 40 years of gaming with miniatures I've yet to see anyone do that.
Quote from: tuypo1;817188playing with lead miniatures seems really unhealthy (although to be fair i spend a lot of time with bullets so im not one to talk)
how long ago was it that they realised how bad for you it was
Early 90s I believe. Partha switched over to Pewter a year or two ahead of everyone else I think.
I had a ton of Citadel and some Ral Parthas in the 80's. I only played one game with them when I was first getting into basic D&D. Mainly I just painted them. You can tell looking at my collection how my skills progressed over the years. The first ones are pretty pathetic compared to the last ones, as materials and skills/techniques improved. It was relaxing as hell, and I'd love to do it again. I'm sure that after decades in basements and attics my paints are no longer liquid, though. And the expense of putting together an extensive set of paints to replace them gives me pause. My wife takes my son to her parents' house in South Carolina for the month of July every summer, and every year I toy with the idea of starting up again while I'm home alone for three weeks. Maybe this will be the year. I searched for years to find that damned "Giant on Armored War Elephant" figure, after all.
What I'd LOVE to do is try my hand at building dioramas. If on;y I had the time. [Sigh]
Quote from: Bren;817220To my knowledge there is no evidence of any health hazard unless you are chewing on the miniatures or eating them. In 40 years of gaming with miniatures I've yet to see anyone do that.
ah i see
well i do chew on things a lot but i would never chew on my miniatures so i think im safe there
Quote from: IggytheBorg;817316What I'd LOVE to do is try my hand at building dioramas. If on;y I had the time. [Sigh]
It's never too late!
//Panjumanju
Does anyone have a recommendation for a good basic set of paints? Or maybe a few such sets which, when combined would give one a pretty extensive palette without breaking the bank? I really like the idea of Reaper's three color shading/highlighting system, and much as I'd like to I balk at the idea of buying that many jars of paint for every color I may want to use.
Quote from: IggytheBorg;818333Does anyone have a recommendation for a good basic set of paints? Or maybe a few such sets which, when combined would give one a pretty extensive palette without breaking the bank? I really like the idea of Reaper's three color shading/highlighting system, and much as I'd like to I balk at the idea of buying that many jars of paint for every color I may want to use.
Go with a starter set of Reaper paints. That's what I'd do.
There's a good Paint Equivalency chart at the Dakka-Dakka forums if you want to do 40k stuff with Reaper paints.
Quote from: IggytheBorg;818333Does anyone have a recommendation for a good basic set of paints? Or maybe a few such sets which, when combined would give one a pretty extensive palette without breaking the bank? I really like the idea of Reaper's three color shading/highlighting system, and much as I'd like to I balk at the idea of buying that many jars of paint for every color I may want to use.
This fellow here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GKvaIvqf8o&list=PLtysRnFm_YLMOh6KSoAPaUup79Ew6WTRq (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GKvaIvqf8o&list=PLtysRnFm_YLMOh6KSoAPaUup79Ew6WTRq)
gives a very good rundown of the basic paints to buy that are necessary for a starting hobbyist. I personally recommend either Vallejo or P3 paints. Citadel paints are overpriced and of increasingly lower quality, Reaper paints are specifically designed towards wet-blending which is an advanced technique I don't recommend for new painters, and while some people get by with craft store paints they are not optimal. Or get this:
http://www.amazon.ca/The-Army-Painter-Warpaints-Starter/dp/B007SQ3C18 (http://www.amazon.ca/The-Army-Painter-Warpaints-Starter/dp/B007SQ3C18)
Vallejo are nice - they do a Model Colour range which is very comprehensive and a Game Colour range, which offers brighter colours that match GW's now defunct paint names.
Their washes are poor though...
Foundry and Reaper do good triads. I have a great triad for plain linen from P3, but that's about all I have from them.
Army Painter are fairly new - hear good things about them. Their washes are nice.
Coat D'Arms are tstill selling the original GW paint formulations from the 80s, and they also make the P3 paints.
GW's paints these days are pretty damn good (small pots and overpriced, but I can nip into a shop for supplies in almost any town in Britain). They offer a set of base colours that give good coverage (importat for warm coours that typically cover poorly), layer colours, drybrush highlights that may seem superfluous but re actually very good. their shades/washes take a bit of getting used to, and the texture paints are a waste of money.
Spray primer - honestly, cheap car primer sprays are as good as anything.
There are a couple of things about triads that may sway you in their favour...
1) First of all, they're great when you're doing a large number of uniformed figures - no more hunting around for how you mixed up that last batch.
2) Second, there's a really good painting method called the three-layer or Dallimore method, which avoids blending, glazing and other advanced techniques. Foundry do a great couple of books that cover the method well, but basically you paint on a shade colour, cover all but the deep folds and edges in the mid colour, then paint the raised areas in the highlight colour.
It works. It. Just. Works. it gives a pleasing effect to the eye, and the multiple layers of paint give a depth and richness to your paintjob that you only get from multiple coats.
3) Thirdly, if you mix your own colours, there's more to it than black to darken, white to lighten and grey to desaturate (remove the brightness of the colour). Black makes colours muddy, white can make them chalky and grey sometimes does nothing.
You're often better having lighter and darker versions of your mid colour to let you mix a range of shades. To desaturate, you want to mix in the complementary colour (on the other side of a colour wheel - look it up).
Last one for a while, honest.
Brushes - Generally you want pure Kolinsky sable or mixed brushes, rather than synthetic. The ones you buy in model shops are often garbage - they fall apart and you end up picking hair off your minis. Go for artist's brushes.
GW's are OK - sometimes. Vallejo's are good. eM-4 (in the UK) are good. Rosemary and Co in the UK do a great series of watercolour brushes at very reasonable prices; Windsor and Newton's are also great but very expensive.
Go for a range of sizes - 2, 0, 00 and 0000 (or 4/0) will keep you happy. Look for a good sharp point on the brush - if the hairs are splayed or the tip is bent, avoid.
Buy your basing sand, flock etc from model railway shops, not GW.
Unfortunately Foundry and Coat D'Arms paints are really only an option if you live in Britain, due to the new postal regulations, unless you're willing to pay a small fortune to get them shipped over 3 bottles at a time.
Quote from: TristramEvans;818346Unfortunately Foundry and Coat D'Arms paints are really only an option if you live in Britain, due to the new postal regulations, unless you're willing to pay a small fortune to get them shipped over 3 bottles at a time.
:( Didn't realise they don't have a distributor in the States . The new international postage regs are a bummer - can't even send my daughter a bottle of perfume at Christmas now.
eM-4 brushes on the other hand - the guy has a wormhole or something, I think he sends stuff before you know you need it...
A word of advice. If you're wanting to start painting, and want to keep costs down, that means you're probably using Bones minis. They are plastic, and not metal. I think their quality, while not as high as metal, are still really good.
The thing is, is if you use Bones minis, you have to be really careful what primer, paint, and finish you use. If you use the wrong kind, the minis will get very tacky and sticky.
I go with Army Painter primer, and will never go back. It puts on the best coat of primer I've ever used before. Acrylic paints, and matte for acrylics is the only options for you if you use Bones. If you use enamel paints or matte, you'll ruin the mini.
My favorite paints of all time were actually the TSR AD&D paint line. Great paint, and the pots were by far the best pots I've ever used. Most of my paints are still those in fact, after 20 years. Too bad they don't make them any more.
Quote from: IggytheBorg;818333Does anyone have a recommendation for a good basic set of paints? Or maybe a few such sets which, when combined would give one a pretty extensive palette without breaking the bank? I really like the idea of Reaper's three color shading/highlighting system, and much as I'd like to I balk at the idea of buying that many jars of paint for every color I may want to use.
A Vallejo Game Color Paint Set is great on pewter. It doesn't do well on the white Reaper Bonesium/plastic minis, but with a good base coat it's very good on pewter.
I got mine here:
http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Paints.html
On amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Vallejo+Game+Color+Paint+Set
Quote from: TristramEvans;818346Unfortunately Foundry and Coat D'Arms paints are really only an option if you live in Britain, due to the new postal regulations, unless you're willing to pay a small fortune to get them shipped over 3 bottles at a time.
I think they just changed that again:
https://www.change.org/p/moya-greene-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints/u/9295196
"We have lifted the four item restriction. Customers can now send an unlimited number in any one package but the volume of each container should still not exceed 150ml.
The items must be securely closed and placed in a leak-proof liner, such as a sealed polythene bag, so that any inadvertent leakage is contained within the outer packaging. Surround with absorbent material such as newspaper and sufficient cushioning material to protect each item from damage. The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
The changes went live on 12 January 2015. I trust this will be a welcome decision for you."
Quote from: S'mon;818356I think they just changed that again:
https://www.change.org/p/moya-greene-lift-the-restrictions-on-shipping-water-based-paints/u/9295196
"We have lifted the four item restriction. Customers can now send an unlimited number in any one package but the volume of each container should still not exceed 150ml.
The items must be securely closed and placed in a leak-proof liner, such as a sealed polythene bag, so that any inadvertent leakage is contained within the outer packaging. Surround with absorbent material such as newspaper and sufficient cushioning material to protect each item from damage. The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
The changes went live on 12 January 2015. I trust this will be a welcome decision for you."
I am weaping tears of joy.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;818350A word of advice. If you're wanting to start painting, and want to keep costs down, that means you're probably using Bones minis. They are plastic, and not metal. I think their quality, while not as high as metal, are still really good.
The thing is, is if you use Bones minis, you have to be really careful what primer, paint, and finish you use. If you use the wrong kind, the minis will get very tacky and sticky.
I go with Army Painter primer, and will never go back. It puts on the best coat of primer I've ever used before. Acrylic paints, and matte for acrylics is the only options for you if you use Bones. If you use enamel paints or matte, you'll ruin the mini.
My favorite paints of all time were actually the TSR AD&D paint line. Great paint, and the pots were by far the best pots I've ever used. Most of my paints are still those in fact, after 20 years. Too bad they don't make them any more.
I'm not starting so much as RE-starting. All my figures are metal and pre-date the use of plastic minis. I don't like the idea of those and don't think I'd ever use them. I loved the TSR paints as well. As I recall, they had a "basic" color set and a "monster" color set that were nice starting points, augmented as necessary by single jar additions. There used to be a store within walking distance from my home when I lived in Jersey City that carried the whole line. THOSE were the days. . .
Quote from: Momotaro;818343There are a couple of things about triads that may sway you in their favour...
2) Second, there's a really good painting method called the three-layer or Dallimore method, which avoids blending, glazing and other advanced techniques. Foundry do a great couple of books that cover the method well, but basically you paint on a shade colour, cover all but the deep folds and edges in the mid colour, then paint the raised areas in the highlight colour.
THAT's what ah'm talkin' about. I was never big into mixing my own colors. What triads would you recommend? I like the look of the colors available from Reaper. I may end up going that route after all. . .
Quote from: IggytheBorg;818362THAT's what ah'm talkin' about. I was never big into mixing my own colors. What triads would you recommend? I like the look of the colors available from Reaper. I may end up going that route after all. . .
If you go the triad route, I highly recommend foundry. Their traids are very well set up and easy to use, made to directly tie into their "three-step method".
Does anyone do proper paint pots anymore? I hate dropper bottles.
Quote from: David Johansen;818365Does anyone do proper paint pots anymore? I hate dropper bottles.
P3, Coat d'Arms, Foundry
huh, Privateer Press actually makes something I want. I didn't think that was even possible.
Quote from: TristramEvans;818364If you go the triad route, I highly recommend foundry. Their traids are very well set up and easy to use, made to directly tie into their "three-step method".
Yeah, this.
Heard good things about Reaper Master series triads too, but have not used them as much.
GW are actually OK, but typically they want you to buy about six paints instead of three (which you don't need).
Over the years I've tinkered enough to try anything - my go-to triad for linen is from P3.
Some great info on this thread - I hadn't realised that some primers mess up Bones minis. The standard car primer here in the UK, Halfords, is acrylic, so I've never had any worries with that.
Also, their Gloss Acrylic Lacquer is brilliant - a good hard varnish layer to go underneath Dullcote or Army Painter Matt Varnish.
The biggest memory of pewter figures I had was that in shop class there were some molds of miniatures and me and my nerdy friends spent almost all our time there making them.
Quote from: Momotaro;818441Some great info on this thread - I hadn't realised that some primers mess up Bones minis. The standard car primer here in the UK, Halfords, is acrylic, so I've never had any worries with that.
There's a thread on the Reaper forum re what primers work on Bones.
My favourite (car) spray primer for minis is Simoniz grey, it gives a very nice even coverage on both pewter and Bones (though you should still wash the Bones first as they come coated in horrible mold release), and really showed off the detail pre-painting.
Simoniz white was bad though, lumpy and detail-obscuring. For some reason whites in general seem to have this problem.
I sprayed my Bones fire giants with a black primer that was a big mistake, it was 'tacky' and didn't dry for months.
Strictly you don't need a primer on Bones if they are washed well first, if there's no mold release then the acrylic paint should bind straight into the porous Bonesium. But I've had poor results with Vallejo Game Color, it tends to bead. Vallejo Model Color is much grainier and works better on Bones, but the grainy texture will show on flesh especially. Mixing the two helps, but overall my recommendation is Vallejo Game Color for pewter, something else (Reaper, probably) for Bones.